I need help with this one guys - Major Archana reading - Rove/Plamegate

[Viva_La_Revolution]

NuttyFluffers :hi: suggested I do a Major Archana reading after seeing this one... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=9814

So I did (finally) but it's certainly not as clear as I would like it to be. Please all, give me a hand with this one...

(I've included the full descriptions I use to analyze the cards, some comments are redundant, they were pulled from different sources.)

READING – Prediction – Major Archana
DATE – 8-18-05
SUBJECT – Rove/Plamegate – ref. to reading on 7-8-05

CARDS 1, 2, 3. PRESENT ENVIRONMENT

1) XIX The Sun - Material happiness, success, attainment. A good marriage. Happy reunions. Achievements in the arts, science and agriculture. Studies completed; liberation. Pleasure in the simple life. The sun Is the card of happiness, success and attainment. Obstacles fall away in the light of joy. This card also represents a happy marriage, a successful completion of studies, liberation, achievement and recognition.

2) XXI The World (R) - Success yet to be won; fear of change or travel, too great an attachment to one’s place of residence or job. Lack of vision. A goal is almost in grasp, but perhaps someone lacks the necessary courage to lift oneself out of a rut. You must take chances and make the necessary effort to obtain happiness, otherwise boredom and stagnation can result. Discard any fears of change or attachments to a present situation or job and follow true destiny to success. Action brings good fortune.

3) II The High Priestess (R) - Conceit, sensual enjoyment. Accepting surface knowledge. Sensual passion, reckless action or a casual affair is indicated. Recognize that the situation is not intended to last and that it is only a passing fancy or brief thrill.. Still, it could be an exciting diversion or a profitable short-term investment. Use your morals or business sense as a guide.


CARDS 4, 5, 6. ELEMENTS OF THE QUESTION

4) XVII The Star (R) - Pessimism, doubt, stubbornness, lack of perception. Chance of physical or mental illness. Guard yourself against pessimism and stubbornness in the face of unexpected hindrance or illness. Things are not as bad as they seem and the situation requires a positive outlook and a realistic approach to adversity. The true obstacle can sometimes be oneself.

5) X Wheel of Fortune (R) - Failure of an enterprise, setbacks. New conditions require courage. You will reap as you have sown. A setback or a streak of bad luck is indicated. Avoid taking foolish chances and learn from your mistakes. However cautious and wise efforts or investments will lead to steady progress and increase. Rely on your experience, not chance for success.

6) VIII Strength (R) - Domination of the material. Discord, lack of moral force, fear of the unknown in ourselves, abuse of power. A lack of force and the fear of the unknown are indicated here. Strengthen your resolve to rise above the discord. Guard against using your power to bully someone.


CARDS 7, 8, 9. OBSTACLES TO BE SURMOUNTED / HOW SURMOUNTED

7) XI Justice - Justice will be done. Balance is required. Lawsuits will be won. The balanced personality demands elimination of excess baggage, wrong ideas, and useless forms of education. A mixture of the right ingredients is welcomed – as in science, chemistry, and cooking. May betoken the desire for education, with a well-balanced mind as its objective. She is a wise woman with a well balanced mind and a strong sense of right and wrong. Justice will be served. Wrongs will be righted; lawsuits won. Turn away from wrong ideas, bad habits and frivolous pursuits and follow your true course. Do the right thing.

8) XIV Temperance - Adaptation, tempering, coordination, self-control, modification. Working in harmony with others, good management. What we have imagined will come to pass. Successful combinations will be achieved. This is the card of harmony and good management. Success comes from approaching the goal with moderation and diplomacy. Balance is the key. This card also indicates a successful recovery from bad luck or an illness or a happy ending to a difficult situation.

9) XII The Hanged Man - In spiritual matters, wisdom, prophetic power. A pause in one’s life, suspended decisions. Self-surrender leads to the transformation of the personality. Material temptation is conquered. Larger forces than yourself control your destiny. Guard yourself against sacrifices and setbacks. The situation calls for the wisdom to know that things beyond our control must be endured. Try looking at things from another point of view.


CARDS 10, 11, 12. WHAT WILL COME UNBIDDEN

10) VII The Chariot - Triumph, success, control over the forces of nature – thus triumph over ill health as well as money difficulties or enemies of any sort, including one’s won lover animal passions. This is a card of those who achieve greatness. It may also indicate travel in comfort. Mental and physical powers should lead to fulfillment. Indicates success and triumph over adversity. All enemies and any obstacles are conquered, including hindrances of one’s own making. This is the card of travel and progress, of new friends and new opportunities.

11) XIII Death (R) - Disaster, political upheaval, revolution, anarchy. Death of a political figure. Temporary stagnation. Tendency to inertia. Stagnation, inactivity or a withdrawal from the daily concerns of life. Use this rest from the normal pace to improve yourself to better meet more active times.

12) III The Empress - Material wealth, marriage, fertility for would-be parents, for farmer, or for people in creative arts. If its position is not in the best placement in relation to other cards, it sometimes indicates luxury or dissipation. She is the mother, representing fertility, creation, and birth. Now is the time for new ideas and initiative. Begin work on what you want, for what you need will be provided. Success and good fortune are indicated, as well as happy family relationship, a marriage or a birth, luxury, creativity and contentment.


CARDS 13, 14, 15. WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT TO ACHIEVE

13) XVIII The Moon - Intuition, imagination, deception. Unfolding of latent psychic powers. Unforeseen perils, secret foes. Bad luck for one you love. The card of hidden enemies and uneasiness warns you to be cautious and alert to possible deception. Danger, disappointment, perhaps even bad dreams or depression are caused by a hostile environment. Follow your good instincts and take steps to protect yourself from intrigue or error. In the face of change or calamity focus on the positive to ease your mind.

14) I The Magician - Will, mastery, organizational skills, creative talents. The ability to take the power from above and direct it through desire into manifestation. He is a man of willpower and competency. Use your will to seize opportunities and create your destiny. The tools are at hand to achieve your goal, and with practice and concentration success is guaranteed. Risks and investments bring great rewards. An exciting new venture or friendship may be in store, or if in the past, still continuing successfully. This card also indicates good health and recovery from any present illness.

15) IX The Hermit - Silent council, prudence, discretion. Receiving wisdom from above; instruction from an expert in your field. A meeting with one who will guide the seeker on the path to material or spiritual ends. Attainment of goals. A journey may be necessary in order to gain knowledge. He is a man of wisdom and caution. While prudence may sometimes create obstacles, it can keep you safe as you venture out into dangerous or unfamiliar territory. This card may indicate a spiritual journey or a time of quietness and reflection.

[LaurenG]

1. Looks like Rove is going down

If you just asked for outcome in general

It looks as if there are people working behind the scenes and have a good chance of bringing them down. It will take longer than 3 months and it will be risky, however Fitzgerald is holding all the cards. :shrug:


edit: clarification

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. My question for the original was...

basically, What will be the outcome of the 'Rove outing Plame' situation.

I re-read the first one, and pretty much concentrated on that question again, focusing on what the ramifications will be for us - the people of the US.

My general feelings are -

1-3 - Rove is feeling ok at the moment, thinking all will end as it usually does, he's still enjoying the position he has obtained, and we are still getting on with our daily lives, not much has really changed yet.

4-6 - The current attitudes and actions of the gov. abuse of power etc. I also see the attitudes of the sheeple - lack of perception, domination of the material.

7-9 - Justice as an obsticle - that's good! "demands elimination of useless forms of education" I thought of Inteligent design when I saw that. "What we have imagined will come to pass." jeez - I hope so.

10-12 - stumped. Are they refering to Rove or to us? (10 and 12)
That damn Death reversed has been showing up way too often lately for my comfort. :(

13-15 - I get the feeling of a revolution of sorts - upheaval and an awakening of new attitudes.

[LaurenG]

3. I think that

cards 10-12 are referring to the situation not either side. The chariot, the holy grail, bringing in the feminine to enlighten. Death reversed - to me is being bogged down in the middle of a huge transformation with difficulty making sense of the situation but in the end will TRANSFORM the whole situation. The empresses tells me that nurturing energy will see us through this and will be there for us to soothe.

The last 3 are awesome. We couldn't ask for a better ending, the hermit at the end just guiding us away from all this and into a more spiritual place. I think you did a fantastic job with this reading not to mention it is excellent for us.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. Thanks!

It really helps me to get feedback when I'm stuck.

I'm much less confused now. :)

[NuttyFluffers]

5. fascinating. a bit common knowledge, but fascinating.

present sit. 1,2,3
sun, world (R), high priestess (R)
1. sun: recent past in the present seems to show our time with bill clinton, being in a relatively great position as a nation
2. recent present present seems to speak of a world gone on its head. xenophobia, paranoia, "lack of vision" perfect descrip.
3. recent future present. conceit, hubris, recklessness, short-term thinking from this admin's actions.

a world turned from good to bad

element of ?. 4,5,6 star(R), wheel(R), strength(R)
4. stubbornness speaks eloquently to rec.past of elem. in ?. wanted to fix facts etc. potential of sickness? i'd agree, mentally ill, evil people.
5. wheel reversed. reap the whirlwind. karmic bitchslap. seeming "bad luck" will this temper their hubris? unlikely. it will continue into...
6. descent towards materialism. abuse of power. lack of moral strength. they'll do anything amoral to stop this. they walk the road onto destruction.

what caused this is the stubborn, blind, and evil push of gov't admin

obstacles, what and what to do? 7,8,9 justice, temperance, hanged man
7. justice= crisis of air. air=swords=discernment, reason. i read as also "the liberals/progressives" in the past the first to awaken to the danger is the crisis of air, the logical, the perceptive, the liberal. their obstacle at first was us! but we are also part of the "cure" against them.
8. temperance, diplomacy, clear thinking, open-mindedness. harmony and good management. they are against their perceived evil of cooperation of others. notice the world doing lots of diplo relations ignoring USA. also their perceived "horrible evil" of temperance (instead of vitriol) that brings people together. it's the other part of the "cure" against them. gather friends, be patient, listen to those across the aisle...
9. then comes the crisis of water=hanged man. water=cups=emotions. this is the feeling group of people (perhaps some conservatives?), this is the increase of others agreeing with our concerns. the drop in their polling popularity. the larger spiritual forces form current and turns the tide.

judgement, patience, and sacrifice is the "cure" to their evil. it snowballs now.

the unbidden 10,11,12 chariot, death (R), empress
10. their success of the use of force. but i only see that in the political sphere here. they shall be a victim of their own success. complete USA political take over, but no one left to blame.
11. nothing's working for them now. no transition, just inertia. development of opponents in mean time.
12. the rise of woman. the principle of the mom. all these women that lead the anti-war movement are as they are, no mystique, no mysteries, just sheer raw presence of being the honest "mom." plame, edmunds, sheehan, etc.

huge gains, misused leads to stagnation, basic moral authority challenges and shakes them to the core.

expect to achieve 13,14,15 moon, magician, hermit
13. deception, deceit, obfuscation, cloak and dagger. their weapon to power -- but their prescription to destruction. they laid the seeds for their own demise.
14. manifested their PNAC. they got what they want -- now will they want what they got?
15. more secrecy, no real contemplation, no caution on their part. but the disaster of their making will send the country into hermitage, perhaps a good thing.

manifesting through deceitful means leads to ostracism.

seems they will pay, as will our country, big time. plame case is just a part of a larger play. the indications show that no real change is present from this group and they will be their own undoing.

[NuttyFluffers]

6. sorry for kicking the old, but i was drawn to this reading again.

something about the, oh hell, i'll just copy and paste:

CARDS 7, 8, 9. OBSTACLES TO BE SURMOUNTED / HOW SURMOUNTED

7) XI Justice - Justice will be done. Balance is required. Lawsuits will be won. The balanced personality demands elimination of excess baggage, wrong ideas, and useless forms of education. A mixture of the right ingredients is welcomed – as in science, chemistry, and cooking. May betoken the desire for education, with a well-balanced mind as its objective. She is a wise woman with a well balanced mind and a strong sense of right and wrong. Justice will be served. Wrongs will be righted; lawsuits won. Turn away from wrong ideas, bad habits and frivolous pursuits and follow your true course. Do the right thing.

8) XIV Temperance - Adaptation, tempering, coordination, self-control, modification. Working in harmony with others, good management. What we have imagined will come to pass. Successful combinations will be achieved. This is the card of harmony and good management. Success comes from approaching the goal with moderation and diplomacy. Balance is the key. This card also indicates a successful recovery from bad luck or an illness or a happy ending to a difficult situation.

9) XII The Hanged Man - In spiritual matters, wisdom, prophetic power. A pause in one’s life, suspended decisions. Self-surrender leads to the transformation of the personality. Material temptation is conquered. Larger forces than yourself control your destiny. Guard yourself against sacrifices and setbacks. The situation calls for the wisdom to know that things beyond our control must be endured. Try looking at things from another point of view.

part of speaks to me of the crisis katrina embedded into this. major arcana often is layers upon layers. there is the 5 crises of the major arcana, major forces of change, can be seen as acts of god to awaken the eyes of man. justice = air, tower = fire, death = earth, wheel of fortune = time and space, hanged man = water. also the elements correspond to the suits of the minor arcana and the concepts therein. but the crises stand out for me.

crisis justice. crisis air. katrina. "The balanced personality demands elimination of excess baggage, wrong ideas, and useless forms of education." (homeland security controlling fema, not listening to army corp of engineers, etc) HOW SURMOUNTED "turn away from wrong ideas, bad habits and frivolous pursuits and follow your true course. Do the right thing."

deliberately failed.

temperance "What we have imagined will come to pass." HOW SURMOUNTED "Working in harmony with others, good management."

deliberately failed.

crisis hanged man. crisis water. flooding. "A pause in one’s life, suspended decisions." "Self-surrender leads to the transformation of the personality." "Larger forces than yourself control your destiny." "Guard yourself against sacrifices and setbacks." "The situation calls for the wisdom to know that things beyond our control must be endured."

this too must be deliberately failed, but from the people. we control our destiny, things are to no longer to be endured.

sometimes the imbedded message appears within incredibly important readings. but imbedded messages, by their nature, cannot be overt and overrule the major question. there is more here... must ruminate... what conflated realities are in here?

[Why Syzygy]

7. I haven't finished reading your OP

yet. But I have to ask. Where are you getting these card meanings????

Look @ http://www.learntarot.com for starters.
Also ~ http://www.artrosengarten.com/lexicon3.htm

I really hesitate to give readings when someone else is pulling the cards. Part of reading is the sense you get looking and feeling the cards.

Will you give your impression of what it all means?
I'll take another look at the OP and see if there's anything I can add. But I would prefer your view on YOUR reading. The card meanings you have posted that I've read so far do not even fit in with my understanding.

[Why Syzygy]

8. Okay . I can't resist.. btw I've never seen Arcana spelled your way

also, I've been taught and find effective to pose an actual question. But we'll go with this.

Current Situation:
The Sun
The World
High Priestess

Of course it looks like the sun is shining in Rove's world! Look at him thumb his nose at the press. Fuck you MOFO's. Yeah. He believes he has not a care in the world. Wrong. The World is completion. He believes he has finished his job. Let's hope so. High Priestess. Pure feminine energy. Raw power. There is a condition set to bring balance to the overwhelming yang energy of Rove. A very wise and in-tuned woman.

Elements of the Question:
The Star
Wheel of Fortune
Strength

Interesting position. The elements, from my POV would indicate, the Star meaning, again, feminine energy. A resolution. How do we get the job done. Wheel is of course, the wheels go round. Sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down. Just get used to it. It all works out. Karma. Strength indicates overcoming base desires. Maybe Rove will get a little spirituality. I wouldn't count on it. This card seems to say, unless someone gets a little grip on their dark side, well things are going to be dark!

Obstacles:
Justice
Temperance
The Hanged Man

I think these cards stand on their own. Really no interpretation required. Justice is an obstacle in this case. For sure. Temperance? Forget about it. The Hanged Man does indicate giving in order to receive. A period of self reflection. Of course if we go with my original intention on this position, it might say, someone is standing on their head and not being very effective.

What will come unbidden:
The Chariot
Death
The Empress

The Chariot conquers. It is almighty strength in the face of danger. Death transforms. A loss and a new beginning. The Empress is IMO the most powerful feminine influence in the deck. She is about earth. God-mother. Creation. All that we need to survive.

What you can expect to achieve:
The Moon
The Magician
The Hermit

The Moon card is shadowy. Nothing is as it appears. You don't know where you're going all the time. There is an element of dependence. Trust the moonlight to show you where to step next. Except everything is dark. The Magician is a uniting of forces. All things. Everything. And the power to use them. The Hermit seems like a perfect balance here to The Magician. Because if one does not do inner reflection, then the Power is useless.

I could not resist jumping in with card interpretations. But, again, since there was not an actual question given to the situation, I cannot provide an answer. I don't use Tarot to predict. It's a tool. A wonderful tool so that we may gain insight into circumstances. Thanks for posting your reading.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

9. Your questions...

Where did I get the descriptions? My Mom gave me a copy of the descriptions she has been using for 40 years, someone gave them to her, and they are the ones I grew up using; AND from a book I picked up years ago that seemed to partially derived from the descriptions I had. The originals (for me at least) have served me well, according to the people I've read for.

And, the reading was based on a question - albeit broad. What will be the outcome of current Rove/Plamegate situation? I've been working on asking more focused questions lately.

:)

Katrina effects next 6 months
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=245x12009

:(