Astrologers: Foreclosure nightmare?

[Missy Vixen]

Hi everyone,

I was reading elsewhere today (specifically GD,) and the foreclosure crisis is evidently heating up to a fever pitch with the information about robosigners, the fact that nobody can identify who actually sold what house and who executed the paperwork involved, etcetera. If what we're reading over the past few days is true, it is unrecoverable in my opinion.

I read Rick's newsletter, I read what you all write, and I'm wondering what you think about all this. One thing's for sure, I can't imagine how faith in our banking system/mortgage lenders will be restored any time soon.

-MV

[Sanity Claws]

1. The banks are a criminal conspiracy

Most people would normally consider this hyperbole. In this instance, it's not.

I assure you that anyone who is in banking or law understands the significance of a promissory note. Articles 3 and 4 of the Uniform Commercial Code are dedicated to commercial paper, like promissory notes. Accordingly, anyone who says that the notes are not important etc. are full of fiber. Since some of these statements are made in the context of lawsuits, they are also perjury. Perjury is a felony.

I also assure you that anyone in real estate or law understands the importance of recording security interests in real estate. If you fail to record your interest, it might as well not exist.

The banks though wanted to transfer their security interests without paying recording fees to the county. So they created MERS. Let's not forget that element of why MERS was set up --- to transfer interests without paying tax. I consider MERS a criminal conspiracy to avoid taxes. I think it should be considered a RICO violation.

Finally, let's not forget that all of the papers submitted in court are sworn under oath. The Robosigners committed perjury. The people who set up the robosigning system were engaged in a conspiracy to commit perjury and steal property. You have to call it stealing property when the entity is unable to prove the necessary interest in the property. This should also be considered a RICO violation.

Truly the banks thought they were too big to obey the law. Like any RICO violator, all property related to the violation should be seized and treble damages recovered. Also, the persons involved should be locked up.

Time to get off my soap box.

[OneGrassRoot]

2. ...

In case I haven't told you lately... :yourock:

[northernlights]

3. +1000

I think at least one class-action RICO suit has been filed, plus all 50 state AGs are investigating now. I'll just add that the securitization of the bundled mortgages is looking worse and worse by the day. Investors are afraid that the mortgage notes have been destroyed instead of put into trust where they belonged, as part of hiding their core crappy value. Don't be surprised to read about lawsuits by the investors...possibly within weeks. At that point, it becomes a free for all of the elite going after the elite. Don't also be surprised to see adds "foreclosed on? it may have been illegal. call 1-800 to join xyz class action suit.

Bottom line: The big banks are going down.

I'm moved the bulk of my few dollars out of the local bank and into my old credit union, and stopped using my citi credit card, opening one instead with my credit union. Should have done this long ago, but better late than never.

[Ricochet21]

4. It's over

It's time to build anew. Somehow. How do you keep the rich, greedy people out of it? That is the only question. Has been for all time. Pluto doesn't mess around. We must think hard. :hi:

[Missy Vixen]

5. I can't imagine how we rebuild anew, truthfully

Let's face it. Everything in our world now is based on money: How much you have, how much you don't, and your life is based on how much you have (or have not, as the case may be). Owning a house was the only way for most families to get ahead - after all, the tax deductions are critical for most people. Plus, that house is the largest asset most families have.

The haves will recover nicely. They always do. It's the people at the lower end of the financial spectrum that will (as usual,) suffer the most.

What do you think will happen? I look forward to hearing more of everyone's thoughts.

[Ricochet21]

6. I can't imagine it either.

We have 14 more years of Pluto in Capricorn, including its opposition to our Sun and Pluto return. Next month is the USA's Saturn return. All hard things. You can see the liars all over the TV. We have to do what we can.

[OneGrassRoot]

7. It's really time to brainstorm and start thinking WAY outside the box....

The existing systems and structures aren't working for the vast majority of people.

So, we need to work outside the system, and start building new systems. Sometimes from scratch, sometimes in ways that act as a bridge between the old and new.

There are people like us here with brilliant ideas who are hesitant to step forward and even brainstorm, let alone do the work of moving ideas forward.

I say let's all start connecting and brainstorming NOW and, for those who are comfortable doing so, start implementing these ideas, however small it may seem in the scheme of things.

I'm a do'er. I can only talk so much or I'll implode. Most people online, in my experience, are here to vent and rant. They're often here to gather information as well, but to what end?

To me, it's time we do something with all the information we're gathering. Baby steps. But SOMETHING.

It's time to start doing something instead of feeling victimized all the time. Even if that doing is simply contributing to discussions about new visionary ideas, for others to implement.

That's one of the ways I see the Groups at Wishadoo being implemented. If they're private, people can join groups about subjects they're passionate about, offering their ideas, experiences, and observations as to how to improve something without feeling uncomfortable about it being a public forum.

Education, Environmental Issues, Job Ideas, Healthcare/Wellness Ideas.....EVERYTHING. It all needs to be created anew, IMHO.

It's time to brainstorm and start doing the work of creating this New Way.

Forget 2 cents, that's my 15 cents. ;)

:hug:

:grouphug:

[Sanity Claws]

8. a second competing economy is being created

This is something OGR and I have spoken about.

Currently a large segment of the country is left out of the mainstream corporation- and bank-dominated economy. In past decades, the excluded were mainly racial minorities, the disabled and the poorly educated. Today it includes well-educated people, who are no longer needed by the mainstream economy.

A meme is going around the corporate media that the unemployed are not as good, have poor personalities, etc.

Well they are wrong. They, the mainstream economy, may have written off a lot of people but we have not written ourselves off. People are slowly coming together and working around the corporate economy. Urban agriculture is a prime example, IMHO. Social entrepreneurs are cropping up in other industries too. The banks are not lending to them but foundations are offering seed money to some. Cooperatives are also being formed.

Barter is facilitating some transactions. However, the next step in working around and outside the corporate economy is some alternative form of exchange. A Swiss Bank called WIR, around since the 1930s, is one model. I understand that some in Philadelphia are testing a form of exchange. Here's a site that discusses exchange without currency, http://beyondmoney.net/resource-links/proposal-a-bioregional-economic-development-program-based-on-mutual-credit-clearing/

Clearly something is going on. This new economy, independent of the current corporate and bank dominated economy, is still in its nascent stages. My prediction is that it will take another two years before the mainstream wakes up to this competing economy. By then, it will be too late for the corporate and bank economy to eradicate it.

OGR, I see your 15 cents and raise you a quarter. :)

[OneGrassRoot]

9. ...

;)

Love this:

Clearly something is going on. This new economy, independent of the current corporate and bank dominated economy, is still in its nascent stages. My prediction is that it will take another two years before the mainstream wakes up to this competing economy. By then, it will be too late for the corporate and bank economy to eradicate it.

:thumbsup:

[Fire Walk With Me]

11. "And so it begins..." -Ambassador Kosh

And the greed-based corporations and myth of lack of abundance? OBSOLETE.

The pendulum indeed swings, and the sane replacement is beginning to appear out of the higher-dimensional integrities.

This is "the shift", trending right before our eyes. It's a great time to be involved, invested, and excited about these things :)

[OneGrassRoot]

13. That's a great reminder and point of clarification

While respect for the Earth and all creatures -- and fellow humans -- must be paramount, and thus there is no room for selfishness and excess and destruction of resources, I also believe it's important to approach things from a perspective of abundance -- sharing abundance (LOVE)-- rather than hoarding and "us versus them" thinking based on seeing a lack of resources (FEAR).

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. Your clear =passion= for this positive change, of =knowing= that something better MUST BE,

is already creating it. Your actions joining others in passion and knowing, does just as much.

:hug:

[OneGrassRoot]

15. Thank you...

:hug:

[bigmonkey]

16. I've mentioned this before ...

The software open source model does precisely this. People improve things for no recompense, and everybody benefits, including the people who contributed. Then those improvements are improved upon, and so forth. It just gets better continually and, because of the agreements to share that the contributors made going it, nothing stops it.

The other, money model for software is full of price hikes, viruses, "piracy", locks and keys for the software, propaganda, warnings, etc., etc.

Practical everyday love versus dysfunctional everyday fear.

[OneGrassRoot]

17. Wow, that is so true....

All things "open source" and the whole "creative commons" approach is exactly an example of this. Thanks, bigmonkey.

It is harder for some, depending upon what area we're talking about transitioning to, to go in that direction, however. For those like yourself who are comfortable with open source technology, it probably seems like a no-brainer. And there are some open source things I'm comfortable with (Open Office, GIMP, etc.). Still, Linux is intimidating to me. ;)

But what a great example to put it all into perspective.

It makes me also think of this aspect of how to transition to this "new way."

Using the example of open source technology, my personal experience is that there is a community of really smart programmer types who work together beautifully, because they speak the same language. When I have tried to learn things -- learn how to do these things myself and make use of more and more open source technology -- I've perceived a lack of patience with me as a "newbie."

The people already knowledgeable about new systems, be it computer technology, permaculture, or other new (or even "old is new again" knowledge), more sustainable ways, tend to speak their own language and it's easy to form cliques of sorts. They work together beautifully to create this new way, yet making it inviting to others, especially when others are intimidated and not nearly as knowledgeable, isn't as commonplace yet.

Training others to be able to transition to new ways seems to be a stumbling block in many areas at present, but that's a doable hurdle.

:hi:

:hug:

[bigmonkey]

23. Helping others to transition I what I wish I could do.

I suppose I'm doing it right now, however badly. :-) But I wish that I could fulfill that role. With a regular business, they'd hire salespeople, but there's no-one to hire anybody in this case, unless you want to go to the corporate side, selling "supported" open-source software to corporations. And I'm not a developer myself. I got into this stuff for political reasons.

[OneGrassRoot]

24. I know, it's a Catch-22 right now

:shrug:

:hug:

[northernlights]

18. this is what I've been thinking needs to be done

they've pulled the plug on us. we manage to pull the plug on them.

There are still connections into the regular money-based economy that I don't see anyway way around...yet. The town won't accept taxes in the form of eggs or vegetables. Same for utilities, and other necessities.

But an underground economy to every extent possible is the only way I see through this...

[OneGrassRoot]

19. And this is one way fragmentation, as I perceive it...

is driving me bonkers.

There are SO MANY wonderful projects going on out there. Projects moving things in the direction we speak of here.

Yet few are connecting. It's all so isolated and fragmented, even with the Internet making it easy TO connect and create more of a cohesive system that others could tap into.

Growing pains of a new movement, I suppose. :shrug: Because it is easier nowadays to create things on one's own (websites, ways to gather those of like mind), it seems to become a "mine" mentality. It's "my" idea...and all these individual "my" ideas and thus individual organizations and websites -- many of which are very similar and could benefit the idea itself, the mission itself, by joining together -- stay fragmented and disconnected.

The mission, the idea itself, then gets diluted in the fragmentation, those seeking information about these new ways get confused because there are too many choices and too much to investigate.

More comprehensive portals would help people with my personality type so much. That's why that's always what I'm working toward creating...because that's what I'm seeking. But I must remember that not everyone is like me. Thank goodness! ;)

[Sanity Claws]

20. At this stage, fragmentation may be good

The various things going on are experiments. They are experiments in figuring out the shape and form of what works and what doesn't.

I see people sharing information while doing things on their own. That is fine at this stage.

Finally, this fragmentation is how/ why this change is going on beneath the radar of the big bad mainstream economy. If unity started to arise among groups in the second competing economy, the mainstream economy would notice and try to quash it.

[northernlights]

21. maybe a lot of it needs to be very local

the internet may not be sustainable in the future. or it may not be safe enough to support this kind of change. TPTB will steal anything that's not nailed down, and the internet provides them a means to know what assets are where and what their vulnerabilities are. or it just may not be central to how people rebuild, but just one small piece of the puzzle.

food grown locally. bartering locally. local, face-to-face communities. that's one reason I want to leave where I am. I am not surrounded by many people I can trust at all.

[OneGrassRoot]

22. While I see the points you're both making...

and agree with them to a certain extent -- and we've talked about it Sanity Claws -- there's still an aspect to the lack of cohesion that makes it difficult to disseminate information and reach more and more people.

I agree things should be local -- that's kind of the guiding premise, keeping it grassroots.

I'm just sharing that for me, personally, fragmentation is a difficult thing to work with. It may not be for others and indeed many don't even see it AS fragmentation. That's cool.

I do see it that way, however, and it's troubling/frustrating for me at this point in time when considering how to move forward.

Since this is a spiritual forum, I'll also share that my simplistic view of things comes into play with regard to what you've shared about keeping things under the radar and away from TPTB.

It's not that I doubt this nefarious hierarchy exists; not at all. And I completely respect that people must do what they feel is best, HOW they feel it's best.

Me, I'm doing my best to stick with the Choose Love, Not Fear mantra. It may be naive and overly simplistic, but if I give in to the "keep everything a secret so TPTB don't crush us and continue to destroy us," I'm giving in to fear.

And this fragmented approach to me feels fear-based and ego-based as well. It just feels to me that unity in numbers...evolving with love and good intentions and coming together in a massive way to create the new... is what will strengthen this new way.

That's obviously just my simplistic Pollyanna view but, for now, I'm going with it because it feels right and has for a long, long time. It certainly may change. ;)

I'll just keep taking life one hour at a time.

:hi:

Edit to add: When I talked about the "unity in numbers" above, I realize that just because people don't know there are others doing similar wonderful things, it doesn't diminish the reality that there are more and more people thinking the same things, moving forward with similar projects, etc.

Again, just for me, personally, I get excited when I learn of the projects and get excited about the potential to join together, as to me that is the "unity" in numbers. And joining together doesn't mean others' projects are co-opted in any way or they lose the freedom to continue experimenting as they're currently doing -- separate projects to see what works and what doesn't -- it's more of a general more cohesive network that I would love to see formed, so people can find one another more easily, help one another more effectively and efficiently. It's not diluting the projects but strengthening them in order for people to find one another.

That's the fragmentation and cohesion of which I speak, not the projects themselves necessarily.

That probably makes no sense...I'd better get to work before my brain cells poop out early today...lol.

[northernlights]

27. maybe it is fragmented because it is only just beginning

as various groups grow, develop and word spreads, then things will become more cohesive.

It seems like it should be further along to *us.* But many people are only just beginning to recognize that the old ways just aren't going to work any more. They haven't even begun to think it through.

And maybe we aren't supposed to think it through and reason it out. Just change how we live one day at a time, one aspect at a time. I'm changing how I eat. And my supermarket has changed -- they offer more and more locally grown food. I can go to the farmstand (which now caters to the wealthy with a lot of tempting and expensive gourmet stuff) or I can pick up those same veggies while I'm doing the rest of my shopping because the supermarket offers the same farmer's veggies. I'm changing how I cook. I'm changing how I heat my home. I'm changing my banking. I'm changing everything, but can only change so much at a time.

As we are forced to adapt, adapt, adapt...change will happen.

I know that's less exciting than thinking it through, planning and executing. It also means that *we can't control the change.* We can only be the change.

[OneGrassRoot]

28. Oh goodness, I agree completely....

I hear you. :hi:

We absolutely have to BE the change...feeling it within, making a choice to act on it (or not...both of which are perfectly fine in my view), then just doing the best we can one hour at a time.

Baby steps...big steps...no steps...we're all different.

If we feel a sense of distress or frustration with how things are, however, that's when I encourage people to open to the possibilities of doing more, not only talking and researching.

I'm serious when I say I must exist one hour at a time. I can't even begin to think things through wholly and completely -- I can't begin to imagine the terrain a week from now that may change whatever plans I think are viable today.

Connecting now, in whatever ways become available or ways that I see COULD become available, and laying my own flexible foundational boundaries is the only planning I'm engaged in -- consciously, at least. ;)

And you're also so right about things changing quickly. We really have no choice but to be flexible and open to the change, IMHO. I've set certain boundaries, ways that I personally -- for now -- feel allow me to stay within my own integrity -- but, beyond that, I'm wingin' it every hour.

;)

More :hug: :hug: :hug:

[eilen]

25. The new economy is what will last

even if the old economy continues to sputter as those who are unable and unwilling to change hang on.

I love the latest Yes! Magazine. There are models in there for every community.

I like the idea of community land trusts to provide affordable housing and proper common use privileges that we have seemed to have lost today. Populating these community land trusts with coops for different needs that can apprentice/reskill people who wish to participate more fully in relocalization and creating a resilient community. I think such a model will eliminate food deserts in our inner cities and break the cycle of people being considered and considering themselves as "worthless" or "hopeless". Our greatest strength and resource are each other, our people. It is time that we place our value appropriately.

Much of what will be needed is for us as individuals to release old patterns, habits of acquisition, feeling "need" for things. It isn't easy to change habits.

Later we will become large enough in number to make some impact politically. But don't kid yourselves, our federal and many of our state governments are very heavily invested in the military/industrial global institutions. We still very much live in the world of "he that has the gold makes the rules". Like Rick says, there is 14 years of hard work ahead of us. We need to build lifeboats (to paraphrase Michael Ruppert) for those adrift now and develop islands of stability in our communities.

My recommendations are to learn--the Crash Course with Chris Martenson-http://www.chrismartenson.com/- you can view it on Vimeo and/or YouTube; Post Peak Living minicourse http://www.postpeakliving.com, Transition in Action http://transitioninaction.com/groups ; http://www.yesmagazine.org/

[Fire Walk With Me]

31. Excellent.

And I agree; the MIL won't be going away in a hurry. I imagine Obama Knows that it's not yet weak enough to tip into oblivion so he's not butting heads with it. All things as they are ripe.

Although I do hope that the advent of the 2012 energy will enable us to speed these conditions into the positive. The power of prayer is becoming more and more present...remember please to pray for Democratic victory this fall, it is extremely important.

[Sienna86]

10. Remember the old Savings and Loans?

In the small town I grew up in, there was one Savings and Loans in town. Every month my mom would take us with her to make the monthly payment in person. I think my parents mortgage was the grand sum of $113 a month - probably a good amount back in the 60's... I would bet the interest rate was reasonable - BOTH to the mortgage receivers and to the folks who kept savings accounts at the institution. I'm guessing the institution made a reasonable profit. I wish there was such an institution where I lived.

I'm making a measly interest on the money I have in savings, probably not even 1%. What if a Savings and Loan made mortgage loans at 4% and paid those with savings accounts 2%, or even 3%. Would the 1% difference be enough profit to run the "bank". I don't know and maybe I'm simplifying everything. I would just like to try it.

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. I remember one of George Bush's brothers destroying an S&L...

...and such overall greed has indeed both injured the ability of such institutions to help their customers, as well as to simply feed the greedy at the expense of everyone else.

[graceastrology]

26. Pluto in Capricorn exposing corruption...

Hi MV,

I think most astrologers who study mundane events would agree on the planetary patterns correlating to the mortgage crisis and other corruptions that continue to be exposed -- so my take on it may not be adding anything new to what you've already heard. But here goes:

First, Pluto in Capricorn -- where it hasn't been since around 1762: Pluto, Lord of the Underworld (mines, volcanoes, power, perspective, things hidden below the surface) in Capricorn (government, politics, "respected" hallowed institutions), has been busy exposing corruption therein - big time.

Pluto's transit through early Capricorn has hit the chart of the United States right in our pocketbooks -- by opposing Venus (money, banking) in the 2nd house of values/worth. Pluto has also been very "hot" in the horoscope of the Federal Reserve, suggesting a possible breakdown/transformation of that institution.

Pluto has made contact with other "heavies" in the solar system this year. Until recently it was squaring Saturn -- now in Libra, sign of relationships and diplomacy, fairness and justice for all. The square between Saturn (control, the immovable object) and Pluto (change or die; resistance is futile) suggests those in power fighting tooth and nail to hang on to what they have and a period of sobering realizations and hard, hard work -- with a considerable threat of loss.

In the horoscope of the US, we see Saturn in Libra about to square the US Sun in Cancer (aspect exact next month), which rules our 4th house -- issues of home, real property, homeland security -- coinciding with the exposure of further corruption in foreclosures and the halt to many of them. Fascinating! The Sun in a nation's horoscope also symbolizes its leader(s) -- and the challenge to the Sun from restrictive, controlling, serious Saturn could be seen as a call for our leaders to get serious -- to act with more gravitas (a potential positive manifestation) -- or may be seen a simply a challenge (a potential negative manifestation), e.g., obstructions in their ability to act effectively.

As Rick has mentioned, we also see Saturn in Libra about to conjoin Saturn in the chart of the US -- yes, we're having another Saturn return -- our 7th as a nation, I believe -- they happen every 28-30 years -- so whatever strategies we put into play in...ohhhh...1981-2...are up for review. Can anyone remember what some of them were? This is a time to consider a new strategy that fulfills us on more than a material plane...

But wait -- there's more! Uranus (rebellion, revolution, genius, intensity) is currently conjoined with expansive Jupiter (optimism, excess, philosophy and other "group think" consciousness) at the very end of Pisces, a sign known more for depth of feeling than for rational thinking -- suggesting that people are willing to bet on a speculative venture based on how it makes them feel -- with seemingly no limit to how speculative and "out there" the venture might be. This appears to have had an interesting effect on the 2010 election season...

In 2011, when Jupiter and Uranus (especially Uranus) move into pioneering, self-reliant Aries for seven years (where it hasn't been since the 1930s); this is when things will likely become even more interesting; rebellious Uranus will square Pluto seven times over the next few years, suggesting changes on a global scale to our notions of what government (Pluto in Capricorn) is and what it should do; note that in the US, the last Pluto-Uranus square in the 30s led to FDR's "New Deal" and other social programs; in Europe we saw the rise of the Third Reich. Note that in the US the conjunction between Pluto-Uranus in the 60s led to the Civil Rights Act, while in China we saw the Cultural Revolution. Interesting times!

As Rick has also pointed out, these heavies -- Pluto, Uranus, Saturn, plus Jupiter -- have been, for most of 2010, in what we call a T-Square pattern that hasn't been seen since the 1930s -- a time that most of us on the planet did not live through. What have we learned since the 1930s? Anything? If we didn't, we're bound to repeat the pattern. And even though Saturn has technically moved out of the T-Square, we're still facing those seven squares between Pluto and Uranus...

This year's T-Square has been ESPECIALLY affecting all those born in the early days of these signs: Aries, Libra, Cancer, Capricorn -- and the last few days of these signs: Pisces, Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius. Collectively we are looking at the BEGINNING OF A NEW CYCLE on planet Earth -- challenging and also exciting.

How to cope? Well, I am reading an interesting book right now..."Linchpin" by Seth Godin -- that offers suggestions that are in alignment with how our economy will likely continue to respond in the age of rebellious Uranus in individualistic Aries squaring ruthless Pluto, transforming many structures we have held dear (Capricorn). Highly recommended...

EG

[OneGrassRoot]

29. Thank you for that, Grace...

I need to get Seth's latest book. :)

If I'm not mistaken, HOW he published this book is also interesting and speaks to the changing structures and ways of doing...everything.

He is a very successful, traditionally published author, yet he's moving away from the traditional publishing model for several reasons.

Actually, I see "Linchpin" is the last of his traditionally published works: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2010/08/moving-on.html

I thought this might be of interest to those of you interested in writing and publishing, and observers of the changes in dying industries.

:hi:


edit for typo

[graceastrology]

30. Thanks, OGR...

...for the link to Godin's blog post -- fascinating!