Dr Wayne Dyer on politics--

[bliss_eternal]

Perusing Dr. Dyer's website and found these articles. I was struck by his assertion that he does not consider himself a democrat or republican. Just thought I'd post excerpts from his articles and ask readers of this forum to weigh in on his ideas. Do they sound progressive to you? Or more conservative?

First one... Article entitled To Our Politicians from a Spiritual Working Stiff
http://www.drwaynedyer.com/articles/art2.cfm

Excerpt about taxes from this article...

STOP MIXING PERCENTAGES AND DOLLAR AMOUNTS AS A RATIONALE FOR YOUR PHILOSOPHY. If there is a surplus in tax revenues, it is an overpayment and belongs to those who sent it in. It ought to be returned in the same lawful proportion that it went in.

If I paid one million dollars in taxes, it is not so outrageous that I should have returned to me a higher dollar amount than someone who sent in $2,000 in taxes. To say that the wealthy will receive $18,000 each while the poor will only get an $1,800 tax cut is a spurious argument. If you paid no tax, you don't get a tax cut. You can't cut zero and get something back. If you paid $200,000 in taxes and you get a $40,000 refund, that's a 20 percent tax cut. If you paid $500,000 in taxes and you get back $20,000, that is only a 4 percent tax cut.

It stands to reason that if you are going to ask the top 10 percent of income earners to foot over 50 percent of the tax bills, then when it comes time to cut the taxes and return the surpluses, it ought to go back to the taxpayers in the same proportion. Similarly, if the bottom 40 percent of wage earners pay no taxes, then they get no refund. It may not appeal to most voters, but it makes sense to this working stiff who has been in all of those tax brackets at one time or another in his life.

Anyone care to share their thoughts?
:hi:

[I Have A Dream]

1. Doesn't sound at all progressive to me. I'm disappointed.

My guess is that he would have said something entirely different when he was in one of the lower tax brackets just trying to put food on the table.

Nothing makes me respect a person less than their losing their ability to empathize with people who have less when they start to have more. In my opinion, he's going to have to live some more lives learning his lesson on this issue.

(I love his "returning the surplus" comment. What surplus???)

I've lost respect for him based upon this.

[I Have A Dream]

3. I should note that my post was only in reference to the taxes...

part. I didn't read the rest. I will do so, but I haven't yet.

Either way, I stand by my comment about his view on taxes.

[bliss_eternal]

5. I Have A Dream--

I know your post was in regard to the taxes. I've read the entire article. Sadly, what he stated about taxes takes away from his other more 'progressive' ideals', for me at least.

Maybe naive and a tad too idealistic of me, but I tend to want to see teachers walk their talk, so to speak.

Again, he is human--I'm probably being too severe. I don't mean to judge him. I'm just very disappointed. I had a great deal of respect and admiration for him.

In the grand scheme of things, I guess I can understand to a degree what he seems to be trying to say. That if those in lower earning brackets embraced universal truths (as he has) they wouldn't need his money. I get it--but I don't like it or the greedy, I got mine--you get yours attitude expressed by it.

[bliss_eternal]

4. I was too--

disappointed I mean. The first time I found this, I was stunned. It just didn't seem to come from the same person I've seen talk so much about spiritual issues and having faith in source. Ultimately he is still human as we all are, and as such is certainly fallible. He's of course entitled to his opinion in regard to taxes, etc. I would just think that this particular view would seem to negate his other principles about source. Seems a tad hypocritical to me.

Sure, dude. You've worked hard for your money, you're totally 'entitled' to it--you worked HARD for every dime, blah, blah, blah. But if you are such a proponent of source and having faith and trust in source being abundant--anything taken from you in taxes would come back, right? Hello?! Take a lesson from Warren Buffet, Mr. Dyer and others in that 2% of high wealth that don't feel as threatened by the prospects you tear apart here.

I'm not giving up on the principles he teaches as they are universal principles, and he is certainly not the only one that has taught or shared these. Many others have, whether one would call them 'spiritual teachers' or not. He doesn't have a license on Universal Truths. They are what they are.

I probably wouldn't be as quick to run out and buy one of his books as I may have at one time, though.

[I Have A Dream]

7. I grew up with very, very little in the way of material things...

so I know what it's like to not have electricity or be afraid that you're going to lose your home.

I'm now comfortably middle class, and I've had to work hard to get there. However, I truly feel that the money that I pay in taxes never was my money to begin with. As long as politicians use it to help less wealthy people, I don't resent paying taxes because I have more than enough to live comfortably. (If they waste it or steal it by setting up wars that benefit their buddies, then I resent it, but only because it's being stolen from our citizens who need it for the necessities of life.)

I really feel that the Universe has blessed me with abundance (i.e., more than enough) because I'm willing to be used as a tool to redistribute it where the Universe calls me to give it. I don't understand the grasping attitude that I sense in his spiel.

I agree with you, bliss_eternal. I'm not going to be the first to buy his next book either.

[bliss_eternal]

8. I guess

that growing up the way you describe can contribute toward one going either way. I've read and heard Dyer speak of having grown up rather rough--foster care and such, father was an alcoholic.

I really, really thought that his background had made him like you--one that is willing to be used to redistribute the Universe's blessings. Which isn't to say that he doesn't still do good.

I don't know. I just think one's attitudes toward money and giving toward others speaks volumes about them. Someone could share some of the greatest spiritual truths of the Universe--but if they are stingy, selfish, cheap or tightfisted with what they have (even in regard to taxes) I think much less of them, and am less prone to think of them as one I want to take counsel/advice from. I've refused to dine out with people that consider themselves 'spiritually enlightened' that are rude to service people and won't tip wait staff.

Thank you for sharing some of the details of your past. It's wonderful to know that the Universe is abundant and we can all prosper when we apply ourselves! :hi:

[LaurenG]

2. It feels as if he thinks he really is "above" all the regular guys

As if he is a republican. With that said he raised several valid points; one discouraging being against something rather than for something. The other two things are that we are already powerful and I do believe that but it hasn't sunk in yet and that congress feels they are our leaders when that's the last thing they are.

He is still a man and he still has opinions of his own. I think I'll just take the good that he brings and leave the rest for him to figure out for himself (obviously, money is very important to him).

[bliss_eternal]

6. I like the way you

choose to look at it, Ohio Blues--leaving the rest for him to figure out. Yes, money does sound important to him. Yes, he is still a man and has opinions of his own.

I did agree with some of the other ideals or concepts he discusses in the article. But the money/tax thing does make him sound like he thinks he's 'above' it all--and republican. That part really sticks in my craw, so to speak. Though he chooses not to label himself as one or the other--his words speak for him.

[Zen Democrat]

9. Those that benefit most from the system, bear the burden of paying for it.

Our system makes it possible for people to amass fortunes they couldn't amass in any other country in the world. That's makes it imperative that they support the system that enabled their prosperity. They don't necessarily work any harder, or even as hard as, anyone else. People who think they made it all by themselves are delusional.

[bliss_eternal]

10. Dr. Dyer would not agree--

I'm afraid. That much of his perspective is clear. If everyone just embraced HIS wonderful concepts--as he has, they could ALL be prosperous and wouldn't need HIS money. :eyes:

[bliss_eternal]

11. ...think I'll be calling him dr. liar from now on.

Just can't get over the hypocrisy of this man.

[I Have A Dream]

12. Yeah, I've been thinking about it also since you posted this.

It's difficult to lose respect for someone that you trusted.

It made me think of something from when I was in my mid-twenties. At that time I was an Evangelical Christian who was feeling extremely uncomfortable with the amount of control that the church was trying to have in reference to my life. (Incidentally, I was even in Campus Crusade for Christ in college. It was one of the worst experiences that I ever had, but it was also good because it made me understand how certain people think.) I had been searching and searching for what would feed my soul, and I hoped that Evangelical Christianity was the answer. I think that you can easily guess that it wasn't given my membership in this particular group. Anyway, I never really liked or trusted television preachers, but for some reason, I liked Jimmy Swaggart and really felt that he was the real thing -- that he walked the walk in addition to talking the talk. I was so disappointed when it was revealed that he had been caught with a prostitute. (It wasn't the issue of the prostitute, per se, but it just proved that he was an absolute, utter hypocrite because he would have totally condemned anyone else who had been caught in this situation.)

From this experience, I pretty much quit trusting "religious leaders". I think that I need to have the same skepticism of esoteric "spiritual leaders". I'm not saying that I will assume that they are hypocrites, because I'm sure that there are many who are not, but rather that they might be. Just because they know the right words to say doesn't make them "authentic".

I feel the same way that you do; it really saddens me because now I wonder whether Dr. Dyer always was like this or did he just evolve into this? If it's the latter, it's a good lesson about the slippery slope. (I'm always worried about making even small ethical compromises because with each one it gets a little bit easier to do something a little bit bigger next time until you've crossed the line where you are no longer someone that you yourself respect. I think that there's some past life stuff here for me.)

[bliss_eternal]

13. OMG--he's on public tv right now! LOL!

So funny--I just showed this to my husband today, who's watched dr. liar with me in the past. After reading this he said,"I never want that man on my tv again." Except he didn't say it quite as nice. lol.
So it's cracking me up to look at the guide and see he's on at this very moment.

I've heard Dyer talk about the person he was when he wrote books like 'Erroneous Zones' I think that's the name of it. Sorry if I'm getting the title wrong. Anyway, he's said he was in more of an 'ego' state then and more about obtaining wealth, material things, etc. Seriously, he said that. So by his own admission, he probably hasn't changed much--he's always been that dude.

He thinks he's kindler, gentler and less focused on material wealth. The fact that he so openly put something like that on his website says to me that he sees nothing wrong with this perspective. He doesn't see what a contradiction in terms it is. Given this, I get the sense the progressive part of him must be newer in a sense.

Just my opinions of course--not based in fact.

[FloridaPat]

14. Depends on what kind of society you want. If you want everyone

fed and clothed and housed, the rich are going to have to give more. The fact that people get upset with lazy poor who don't like to work and stay home and watch TV - how many people that inherated money do the same thing if not worse. If everyone can have a decent life, crime would be small, there would be more peace, and people would be happier. Of course, if there is that much extra money after all are taken care of, then sure, send it back in the proportion it came in. But as long as we're running a deficit, that argument is crap.

[I Have A Dream]

16. Additionally, many, many poor people are the working poor.

They're doing everything that they can to put a roof over their families' heads, food in their stomachs, clothes on their backs, and pay for safe day care for their children. However, their minimum wage jobs just aren't enough to pay for everything, so something has to give.

I really think that many people don't understand the concept of the working poor, but Dr. Dyer should, given his own childhood background.

Also, many wealthy people think that they got to where they are on their own. However, their parents probably paid for their college education, might have given them money for a big down-payment on their first home, etc. I don't begrudge them this. I just want them to realize that they didn't do it on their own. (In Dr. Dyer's case, it seems that he did do it on his own though.) Many wealthy people think that minimum-wage job holders got what they deserve because they never got an education -- that they're weak-willed. However, an education costs a lot of money in our society -- money that poor and even many middle-class people do not have.

The one time in my life that I got assistance from the government was when I received some low-income grants to help me pay for college. (I also had scholarships & loans that I paid on for a long time.) However, the money that the government invested in me has returned to it many, many times over in the taxes that I pay from my decent-paying job. I don't understand how more people don't understand that money invested in low-income people is very often the best investment that the government can make.

[bliss_eternal]

15. Oh brother--it gets worse...Check out this link on his site--

http://www.drwaynedyer.com/articles/art10.cfm

Seems asking for more taxes from the wealthy would have benefited his 'dear friend and mentor' who he is so unselfishly asking others to 'give NOW to.'

From link:

-------------------------snip-------------------------------------------------

In 1997 Ram Dass was struck by a semi-paralyzing stroke and became wheelchair bound. Still he wrote of his adventure in a powerful book titled, Still Here. He continued to travel, though he could no longer walk and continued to speak to audiences, though he spoke from a slowed down body, but still he did it to serve others.

Now it is our turn... Ram Dass' body can no longer endure the rigors of travel. He has come to Maui, where I live and write. I speak with him frequently and I am often humbled by the tears in his beautiful 73-year-old eyes as he apologizes for not having prepared for his own elderly health care - for what he now perceives as burdensome to others. He still intends to write and teach; however without the travel - we can now come to him. Maui is healing - Maui is where Ram Dass wishes to stay for now!

He is currently living in a home on Maui, which he doesn't own and is currently in jeopardy of losing. I am asking all of you to help purchase this home and to set up a financial foundation to take care of this man who has raised so much money to ensure the futures of so many others. To live out what Ram Dass has practiced with his actions. Please be generous and prompt - no one is more deserving of our love and financial support. In the end these donations will help ensure that Ram Dass and his work will reach another generation or remind a current generation that it is in giving that we receive.

If there has ever been a great spirit who lived in our lifetime, literally devoting his life to the highest principles of spirit, it has been Ram Dass. I love this man; he has been my inspiration and the inspiration for millions of us. It is now time to show him how we feel by doing what he has taught all of us to do - Just , BE HERE for him, NOW.

Please send your donations to:

----------------------------------Snip------------------------------

So somehow those he mentions in his other article are 'unworthy' of his tax money--but this man is worthy of our hard earned money for donations?

[I Have A Dream]

17. It IS ironic, isn't it? n/t

[BuelahWitch]

18. Gurus like Wayne Dyer

make alot of money with their books and their tapes and their seminars (which cost many hundreds of dollars per person to attend). But they rarely seem to give you advice that actually helps people. This is either because they don't know themselves (ie. most of their money is made b/c they can just BS better than the average Joe) or they hold back because they want to make sure you buy that next book or attend the next lecture.

Essentially, most of these people have been repeating the same thing Jane Roberts and Seth did 40 years ago, only in different packaging. The only other one I hold in reverence is Louise Hay and her Heal Your Life books. Most of the others can just go hang themselves as far as I'm concerned...

[Sanity Claws]

19. Jane Roberts and Seth?

Sorry to sound so ignorant but Dwyer is the first one I know of who referred to Source energy, getting connected to Source, and similar stuff. Can you tell me who these other folks are? Can you recommend a book or website on them?
Thanks!

[BuelahWitch]

24. I apologize

I have to admit I have only read one of his books and listened to a PBS seminar. I wasn't really impressed. I've also bought those big tape albums by other new age gurus (Deepak Chopra and Stuart Wilde) and kind of felt the same way. Lots of talk, very little substance.

Jane Roberts channeled the entity Seth beginning in the early 1960s. One of the very first books was The Seth Material and several others came through the years (including some fiction The Oversoul Seven trilogy) Jane died in the early '80s, but her old books and some new ones are still available. Here's a link to a Seth/Jane Roberts site.

http://www.sethcenter.com/

[bliss_eternal]

20. Louise Hay

I recall being really pissed with her some time ago. I was reading one of her books, and found something she said to just be so ridiculous and insulting. I got really mad about it, and put her book away. Tossed it across the room or something--lol. Months later, the information came to me in a different form and resonated with me. I realized that I just wasn't in a place to accept what she said before--when I was I did. It wasn't her or the information, just my ability to be open to a different perspective.

Now if Hay House (her publishing group) would stop publishing books by freepers I would be 100% ok with her again! LOL!

[Sanity Claws]

21. Hay

I've read two of her books. I think there's more than a grain of truth that people can bring on their own disease and fail to recover because they really don't want to. However, there's very much an air of blaming the victim and ignoring the injured because they brought it on themselves. It makes me feel very uncomfortable.

[bliss_eternal]

22. How did you know...?

that was EXACTLY the aspects that I was speaking of and had trouble with? Wow!

Initially, I read the part of disease and people bringing it on themselves--that coupled with the air of blaming the victim made me very angry and I disregarded her book at that point. I later came to know that that there is some truth in some bringing on disease themselves--not always of course, but sometimes. So I decided she wasn't completely out of her mind. LOL!

But I don't embrace her entirely because I still get that sense that she tends to blame victims or states that in all cases they have brought it on themselves. I won't accept that.Like you, it makes me uncomfortable.

THEN I found out that that loser Ben Stein's book is published and sold from her Hay House. I'm sure that publishing companies carry a vast variety of books--for the sake of business. But I find him to be hateful, which contradicts metaphysics and spiritual teachings. So I choose not to purchase from a company that has anything to do with that sort of thing... just my personal thing. lol.

[Sanity Claws]

23. Metaphysics is so broad.

I guess, like religion, it can be twisted to suit one's own predilections. Hay probably has more in common with Ben Stein's philosophy than we originally thought. They both tend to think that if you're not doing well, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Are you familiar with a book called "Excuse me, You're Life is Waiting." The author is Grayhorn or something like that. Like Dyer, she talks about connecting to source and the power (law?) of attraction.
I'm signing off for the night but am interested in hearing your take on her and other well-known authors of spiritual books.

[bliss_eternal]

25. I know what you mean--

but I'm just not interested in subscribing to those (or making them richer)that feel it's necessary to be so negative in the same breath of 'allegedly' being positive. I hope that makes sense. I'm tired to endorsing false prophets...

I'm sorry, I'm not at all familiar with Grayhorn--wish I was. Is there something about he/she in particular that you like or dislike? I'm open to checking them out...

Hope you had a good evening! :hi:

[Sanity Claws]

26. Got her name wrong

It's Grabhorn.
Dyer writes about connecting to source. Grabhorn also does but she emphasizes that you get connected by feeling good. She calls it buzzing. By feeling good, you allow the law of attraction to attract positive things to you. Keep thinking and feeling the same old negative patterns and the same old negative things crop up. The thing that distinguishes her from some of the others is her emphasis on "feeling," as opposed to positive thought.
To some extent, I agree that you get back what you put out. If you put out negative vibes, you will collect a lot of negativity around you. It's the "always" part of it that bothers me; she as well as others seem to have the assurance of absolute truth about themselves when what they say is simply not subject to proof. Despite that, what she talks about can't hurt and may help. So I'm giving it a try.
As for gurus, I agree with you -- no, thanks.