Something strange in a dream

[FreedomAngel82]

I had this strange dream this morning before I woke up and in the dream I was a senator (I think I dreamt this because of all the Kerry/filibuster stuff on my mind) and in a place that was supposed to be the Senate floor and was just raising hell Kennedy style. After that was over I was on my way to this room and I saw in my dream Reid, Durbin, Slaughter and some others. I got to this room and it was some meeting. Someone was speaking and while that was going on lots of people were smoking cigars and the room was full of awful thick smoke. I could feel myself inhaling it and I started choking in the dream and in real life. It was so strange. I started coughing in my sleep from the smoke and woke up. Does anybody know about this? :shrug:

[MissWaverly]

1. sounds like a premonition

something important is shaping up, I personally think a deal was cut over Alito, the Dems sacrificed their vote for something, why should they fear Bush polling at 39% or Tom Delay, the majority leader who's been indicted, the polls across the country showed lukewarm
support for Alito. I would like to know what they are getting for this.

[Matariki]

2. maybe the vote is *easily* rigged and they were promised

non-interference at the very least?

[MissWaverly]

12. I don't think so

The reason I don't think is that I think Tom DeLay lead the Repugs in Congress around like
a bunch of sheep. I really don't believe that the majority of them knew about the rigged
elections. I think that they laundered money worse that during Nixon's administration and
they hired an army of goons to carry it out. Just remember what they did in Katrina, hire
an army of goons, what have they done in Iraq: hire an army of goons to pull strings
behind the scenes. Whoever heard of fighting a US war with a army of private mercenaries
loose on the playing field. Eisenhower must be turning over in his grave.

[loudsue]

5. I agree MissWaverly: I think they're being blackmailed by whatever

has been discovered by the NSA spy team. :tinfoilhat: It just seems like it's GOT to be something like that, or why else would the Dems cave?

I just don't get it.

[Grateful for Hope]

9. At least we had 42 dems

who voted "No". This is far better than we had at the Roberts confirmation.

[MissWaverly]

13. I still have faith in the Democrats

they up against the Empire strikes back, the best thing we can do is help Dean rebuild
the Democratic party, but I do agree that Joe Lieberman must go.

[Grateful for Hope]

15. Yes, Lieberman must go

no doubt about it. And, yes, I do believe that Dean is on the right track -- and we need to support him.

I am trying not to despair today, and, strangely, I feel rather calm about what happened. I think that "right" (as opposed to "The Right") will prevail. Most definitely.

[MissWaverly]

16. Here's is something I posted Sunday which got lost

This is Chuck Hagel actually criticizing Team Bush on their divisive tactics:

With apologies to Rodeodance, I will try to summarize what Chuck Hagel said:

National Security should never be held hostage to a political party, to to a political issue or to an election. American people expect more & they deserve better. I didn't like what Karl Rove said. It frames terrorism, the issue of terrorism and everything that goes with it: the renewal of the Patriot Act or NSA wiretapping in a political context. If we are going to come together as a country to resolve issues...energy, health care and deficit spending. Then we can't take an issue like National Security and make it a political issue that just fractures who we are as a nation...National Security is more important than the Republican Party or the Democratic Party and to use it to get someone elected will ultimately result in defeat and disaster for that political party.

[Grateful for Hope]

18. Wow...

hadn't seen this. Thanks for posting, MissWaverly.

I think this is an example of our elected reps (of both parties) seeing (and voicing) what is right.

Right will win, I am sure of this.

[MissWaverly]

19. I am happy that Rove is no longer seen as the prophet

I just listened to Jimmy Carter's book Our Endangered Values, in it he makes the case
that moral, ethical behavior is part of the core belief of all Americans. We all
believe in a clean environment, bans on nuclear weapons, a fair wage, safe working
conditions, help for the poor, letting the gays live their lives in peace, fair
taxation with representation, good health care, etc. He says that the American
Government has become lost in corporate interests and radical fundamentalist thinking.

[Grateful for Hope]

22. Yes, we have a corporatist government

and, this is nothing new (hey, after all, corporations achieved 'person' status many years ago in regard to our constitution) -- but, it has accelerated during the last 10 years. As far as the radical fundamentalist thinking, I think that the corporations have used this to their advantage, and that that the supposed "rise" is nothing but the propaganda that they spew.

[MissWaverly]

24. Jimmy Carter said not to minimize radical fundie thinking

He said (I am paraphrasing) here that this type of thinking is different from Southern Baptist teaching which is bible based. This thinking assumes that you are one of the righteous and that negotiating or compromise is evil because it weakens your purpose.
Like the idea that we no longer participate in treaties banning nuclear proliferation.
That is a very dangerous idea and I don't believe it is profit driven. My sister says that
she heard that after the fall of Hussein, they filled Iraq with young rightwingers. When
the Iraqis came up to them with problems, they responded: be grateful you are free. They
never listened to their complaints or initiated actions to alleviate problems. How is this
different from being "saved" once you are saved, all your problems are gone. Radical
thinking robs us of the ability to make objective judgments on problem solving. How many
times have we heard that this administration is not reality based or that George Bush
doesn't watch Tv, or that he is able to go with his "gut" reaction.

[MissWaverly]

10. I think they gave this up for impeachment proceedings

The Republicans wanted this badly, if the Abramoff scandal breaks and all these other scandals, it's the only thing they will be able to run on.

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

3. Slaughter's in the House of Reps

:shrug:

[FreedomAngel82]

4. That's what was weird

It was like they were all together in this theatre. It was the type that from the top goes down and to where you can see over people's heads. :shrug: It was all strange. And what was really weird was how I could actually taste the awful cigar smoke and was choking in real life.

[crikkett]

7. just to be safe...

... and I'm not ignoring the symbolism of your dream.

Are you sure there isn't a carbon monoxide hazard in your home? Do you sleep with a room heater that might have burned off some dust? I live in a climate that is mild enough to leave windows cracked so that I don't die from my anchient gas heater. A good friend of mine lost his daughter to CO poisoning.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. Nope none of that

We have one of those alarms and it would go off. It's from the dream.

[mntleo2]

6. Maybe They Traded Their Votes Against Filubuster...

...for impeachment votes?

I am mad as hell at the Dems who voted against a filibuster, but wouldn't it be a good trade? After we impeach Bush and Cneney, then perhaps we would still have the stomach and a lot more skill, to impeach a couple judges as well.

My 2 cents
Cat In Seattle

[crikkett]

8. shoot I'd smoke a cigar over that deal too. n/t

[Mabus]

14. Impeachment begins in the House

The Senate only gets involved after the House votes on the articles of impeachment. So, if they were trading their votes for something to do with impeachment there would already have to be something in the wind in the GOP dominated House. In otherwords, I don't think that was it.

[MissWaverly]

20. no it could have been some kind of a deal

the repugs wanted Alito badly, we now know that they didn't have the votes to break a filibuster and there was a lot of criticism by the American people that felt that
the nuclear option was over reaching by the Republican Party. We now know that the
Republicans are more disciplined, what if a deal was struck with Bill Frist (Senate)
Roy Blunt (House), to put Alito through in the Senate, in return for impeachment
proceedings and the Senate delaying naming a Special Prosecutor to investigate Abramoff.
(I may be wrong on this but I think the Senate is the one to name a special prosecutor).

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I will add this about the future of the party

nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Jan-31-06 05:42 PM
Original message
The future of the democratic party


so after watching what happened yesterday one thought occurred to me. In 2000 Nader tried to get a third party going... on grounds that there was no difference between the parties ... and the greatest third party ever to rise in modern times (and die just as spectacularly) was in 1992... reaching for that damn hat as a historian... flash back to 1870 and the rise of the progressive party... we are at that moment. the country was not ready in 1992... and definitely it was not ready in 2000 (plus the coup operators took advantage of the confusion) But you can bet your sweet potatoes that one consequence of how the democrats are voting in the Senate and not presenting a true challenge as an opposition party. (Yes I understand all the procedural reasons but at this point those are excuses), you will see the rise of third party politics. Worst case scenario the Democratic party will be replaced as the Whigs were. Best case scenario, that third party will put incredible pressure and force the changes necessary within the party. What is a fact, is that I have heard far more people say that neither party represents them over the last six months than I have in years... and yesterday's vote was a watershed moment.

You just watch...

Oh and for yellow dog democrats I have one word to say... you are partly responsible for this state of affairs... me, after the Primaries (I want to vote for Cindy Sheehan if she decides to run against Feinstein) I am done with the Democratic party... and will change my registration to independent. If Diane Feinsein is on the ballot in November, I will NOT be voting for her.

If Cindy is on the ballot, it is a given who I will be voting for. But for me now the choise is between the green candidate and the democrat. If the democrat is somebody like Diane Feinstein, well no thank you.

And this is why you will see a third party rise... the discontent is deep...

[MissWaverly]

21. I do believe a Third Party will rise to replace the Republicans

when these scandals break it will discredit them in the eyes of the American people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. At this point I care little about the American Nazi Party

but I foresee the end of the Democratic party as we know it... whether it will be replaced or changed by incredible pressures from outside, that is another matter altoghether

[MissWaverly]

27. Do not rob the Democrats of their chance in 06

Do not rob us once again of a chance to achieve a meaningful Democratic victory and put John Conyers in charge of the House Judiciary Committee where he NEEDS to be. You must
admit that there have been brave democrats who have been fighting for us since this
whole fiasco started. The rw's do not have a majority yet on the Supreme Court. They
will need to nominate another justice to do that. Do not use the nuclear option now,
I beg you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. You beg me to do what?

Look I will vote for my rep who happens to be a D, and has conscience, but when it comes to the senate, I will NOT vote for Diane Feinstein... period, end of discusion... I mean if I had to make the choice between the lesser of the two evils I think I would have to vote for the Republican, at least I know where he stands... but no, I will be voting Green.. my conscience demands I do that.

Oh and after the primaries, my registration will be Independent, I am done with the Democratic Party... that was a decision made some time ago and only confirmed once again yesterday. Hoping the Dems run a real democrat in the primaries against DiFi

[MissWaverly]

29. It sounded to me like you were trying to build a 3rd party here

recruiting from the internet grassroots, I think that the creation of a Democratic Liberal
Party would be a dangerous drain to the Democrats resources, I thought that I was just
small potatos to the Democratic Party with my $20.00 monthly donation, there are 30,000
of us nationally. That means a million dollars to the democratic party, I hear a lot
from the democratic centrists but they are not active and usually donate small sums
only during the election year. It is the liberals like DU that are really carrying the
Democratic Party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I look at history and the ground is ripe

me, changing to independent, might even go green... but I will not work as hard as I have for the dems.. not until I see them change their ways... and many more people feel this way. I have for a while, but yesterday it was a watershed moment... 1870 comes to mind, and I willremind yuo of what Thomas Paine wrote in his intro to Common Sense


PERHAPS the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.

[MissWaverly]

32. I believe things will get better

I have read that the Christian Coallition is broke, I believe that the GOP party has
devoured a huge amount of money which they have squandered in an over the top, overkill
policy, I believe that they do not have these resources available longterm. I believe that
many papered over wrong doing because they saw GWB as their best chance to get 2 conservative judges on the Supreme Court, now they have what they want. What the rest
of the country wants is their country back. I believe that is what is going to happen.
Everywhere. Which is why you have small town councils voting yes to impeachment proceedings
against George Bush.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. And I beleive the ground is ripe for a third party

and it is coming... I speak to people and they are fed up wit the milquentoast denmocrats, partly that is a media creation, but Monday showed to me, beyond a shadow of a coubt that it is real. Yes things will get better, but as they have in the past change will come from OUTSIDE the political establishment

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Heh!

"Demoncrats"? That's something the rightwingers call us. So are you a democrat or not?

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Have said it, will be an indie after the primaries

faster if there is no primary challenge to Diane Feinstein.

Being an indie by the way does not preclude me from working for candidates I happen to like... or to give money to them... but I am waiting for the primaries, The day the primaries are over, will go over to the post office, and fill up a form, changing my status to indie... my way of protesting the lack of spines. Yes some did a wonderful job, they got my thanks, but overall I do not believe the democratic party represents me anymore... nor do the republicans, but that goes beyond saying... and yes I am joining a growing majority of Americans who feel that way

By the way members are called Democrats, what the republicans do is caled the party democrat, instead of democratic... clear enogh for you?

Here is more data about what the party is loosing... I am a first generation american, and usually first generation americans, hsitorically have joined the party and voted full slate... now my choice is between a candiate of the Democratic party and the Greens. If such a candidate is a member of the DLC, I shan't vote for them.

So does changing my status to Indie make me less of an American in your eyes, and will ask the other question... do people really know the history of third parties in the US, and what they historically have provided? Save the GOP that actually replaced a party, third parties usually offer a swift kick in the pants to the establishment... and that is coming.

[hvn_nbr_2]

23. Did you post this somewhere else too?

The stuff at the beginning looks like copy and paste from another post. If you did post it somewhere else, I'd be interested to see the responses there.

BTW, I have similar thoughts. Yesterday after the filibuster vote, I went to the library to pick up a voter registration card, in case I decide to switch to Green or independent. Not decided yet whether I'll actually do that.

I've been saying for some time that we seem to be overdue for a major political party re-alignment. It's been over 150 years since the last one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Sure I did post it on General discusion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2424147&mesg_id=2424147

[hvn_nbr_2]

35. Thanks. n/t

[Helga Scow Stern]

31. You were the one raising hell "Kennedy style"

and you went to the room and choked on the smoke. You say Durbin and Reid were there, but don't mention Kennedy and Kerry. Perhaps the dream is driving home how anyone who raises hell gets choked out by the smoke of the back room deals.

Reid sounded like such a wuss during his speech yesterday, and by TWO strange truth revealing glitches was heard voting aye for closure and then in the offical reading of the votes was mistakenly announced as an "aye" vote before it was quickly corrected. To me these were omens of his fishy, underhanded dealing, of his stand being not what it seemed.

If you look at the faces of utter betrayal on Kennedy and Kerry your dream makes sense in this regard. Your visceral reaction to the smoke was maybe meant to show us how impossible it was for them to cut through the underhandedness of the dealings.

They need our support. And remember, the lungs and respiratory system are also where grief enters and is stored, according to Chinese medicine.

On edit, here are two pics





and I just read on GP that Kerry is now catching hell from Dems for "failed filibuster". That makes me wonder if some of the dirty dealing may have to do with who becomes the next presidential candidate...? Otherwise why go after Kerry and not Kennedy?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2426194#2426250

[FreedomAngel82]

33. That's good reasoning

I've been pissed off lately with some of the democrats so I think the first part was my subconsceious getting out some frustrations. In the room I remember there was some woman who was talking and I had a pad and was taking notes. I remember there was a big/long white marker board (it was clean but you could tell it was used) and she was doing some talking to the whole group. It looked and felt like some sort of strategy meeting. The room was pretty medium sized and every one was close together and I was sitting on some bluepadded chair. The smoke was so thick it was amazing and I think why I was choking on it. Smoke usually doesn't bother me quite so much since my grandma and my aunts smoke and have since I was born. Remember Kerry is the one who began the campaign for the filibuster. Kennedy just joined on board and supported him so perhaps that's why they're going after him. Poor Kerry. :(

[Helga Scow Stern]

34. I thought Kennedy started it and Kerry came back to support it

cause no one else was. I read that somewhere on DU. I think in a post from blm.

Do you remember what you were taking notes on?

[FreedomAngel82]

36. I didn't see the paper

:shrug: I think it was just starting and all the smoke made me cough so bad I ended up waking up. But it was Kerry who began it and Kennedy supported it as stated on his Senate site.

[MissWaverly]

40. There are rumors of Cheney resigning

I think he turned 65 this week, maybe that was the deal; but it wasn't with the
Repub Senators but with GWB.