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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-12-06 05:27 PM
Original message
please post comments on "A Course In Miracles" here
any info would be greatly appreciated, thanks
:hi:
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-12-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Have you read the book or looked through it?
It's a year long study training your self to think and see differently. I never made it through in the form they were asking for but I do have a copy that I've read on my own. I thought it was a fine book.
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wildhorses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-12-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. who wrote it?
I am going to buy a copy this weekend....I understand about thinking differently...does the book consider the devil to be an illusion?
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Dr. Helen Schucman and Dr. William Thetford wrote it
Here is a link for the website. I can't remember how they deal with the satan issue but I believe they consider him an illusion, sorry.

http://acim.org/
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magnolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. According to ACIM...
...ONLY LOVE is real, everything else is an illusion.
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-12-06 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. My ex-wife swears by it.
I haven't read it but she does some work every morning. We talk about things and she might say that something is "right out of ACIM". My training is elsewhere, but I trust her judgement that there is a lot of good in ACIM.

Bill
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oxbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-12-06 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. You can get it at the library here...
Edited on Wed Apr-12-06 09:08 PM by oxbow
I have read several books by people who have studied it, and loved all of them. The Course has been too daunting for me to pick up yet though. As for who wrote it, I believe a medical doctor and a psychiatrist did together. Most of the material in it though was given to them through the Holy Ghost, by revelation.

"A gift of healing" is a really good one, mostly just selections from the Course, which is hundreds of pages of self-help material, which is why I've been holding off on committing to it.

Marianne Williamson's "A Return to Love" is the most famous book based on the Course's teachings. It is a great way to understand the philosophy of the Course without diving in headfirst. She writes like you're a friend and she's writing you a letter almost, and I love to read her! I'm actually waiting for her new one to hit my library now.

Lee Jampowsky's "The Art of Trust" is just what the title advertises: he uses the Course to help yu build trust in yourself and God, by exchanging a fear-based reality for one based on Love. Actually, the last sentence describes the Course pretty well. It's basically a series of daily practices and affirmations that put together, help you see yourself and the world in a more loving way.

Hope I have been some help. Seems like I;ve been dancing around the periphery of the Course for months now. Maybe I'll actually dive in someday! :hi:

edit to say: You can visit the website for the Foundation for Inner Peace, which is responsible for ACIM, here: http://www.acim.org/
Good luck!
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
6. One of the best books I ever read was Gerald Jampolsky's
Edited on Thu Apr-13-06 06:43 AM by DemExpat
"Love is letting go of fear" in the 80s. When I look through it in present times I am amazed at how much I have incorporated from his simple teachings in this book into my life.

I believe he was also an off-shoot of A Course in Miracles.....

DemEx

edit: I see here that this book is based on the principles of ACIM...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0890872465/sr=8-2/qid=1144928501/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-7290797-9971316?%5Fencoding=UTF8
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oxbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. My guys is named JAMPOLSKY too, not Jampowsky
my bad....perhaps they are related, no?
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I just looked it up - Lee is Gerald's son...
....son of pioneer Jerry Jampolsky and renowned author and psychologist, has a site featuring his work and his numerous popular books, such as 'Healing the Addictive Mind' and 'Walking Through Walls'.

:hi:

DemEx
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. That book actually changed my life. I kept it next to my bed and read
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 01:55 PM by BrklynLiberal
some of it every night before I went to sleep. I eventually read it many times. It really is an amazing book.:thumbsup:

Very simple, concise and easy to grasp and learn from. To me it seemed to emphasize only the positive.
Not a huge volume. In paperback it was actually a pretty small book
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Same here, BL....
it is one of the few books that really did open my eyes, and the compact outlay of the concepts was what helped me grasp certain IMO truths I was unaware of before.

It was bedtime reading for me on and off throughout several years.

:thumbsup:

DemEx
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
9. I don't recommend it for addicts and since I am in recovery I have
stayed away from it.
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Care to expound on this, AZ?
I am interested in why for you that this is the case.

:hi:

DemEx
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. well, without going into too much of a rant
the CoM basically tells everyone they are God (which of course we are) but an alkie is just a big bag of Ego driven by Fear

you can't feed the ego until some humility has been learned. my experience with people in recovery who did the CoM is they started thinking that their disease was a matter of "will power" and that they could just think it away with no consequence. and that is the path to madness when dealing with alcoholism especially in the early years of recovery

to a person, the alkies I knew who did the CoM just got bug wild crazy, dealing with frustration and guilt they weren't "better" ASAP. and unfortunately fully half of the 30 or so people I knew in my home group ended up drinking again. I'm not saying the CoM was entirely at fault in that statistic BUT it was a serious wake up call for me regarding the CoM

the 12 steps set me on a course of spiritual awakening that I still follow today. but what it taught me is although i am indeed part of God, I am NOT GOD!

a cup full of ocean water is indeed ocean, but it is not the OCEAN

know what I mean? ;)
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Ah, yes, well I do see your point here, AZ....thanks.
This ties in with the advice my psychiatrist (who was very open to spirituality) gave her patients to not delve into Yoga or any New Age techniques or therapies while undergoing psychotherapy that she provided for, in her view, possible dangers for mental health to those in the beginning phases of therapy.

I don't see CIM as feeding the ego, though, AZ, quite the contrary, in my experience. It can be used to feed ego, but that is not the purpose IMO.
:hi:

DemEx
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. "but that is not the purpose IMO." aha! you now see the point
alkies can justify anything

it's part of how the disease manifests :evilgrin:
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I have a sister struggling with this now, so I'm learning....
:-(

Feel very powerless to help until she gives up her huge all pervasive crutch. :cry:

:hug:


DemEx
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. feel free to PM me if I can help
:hug:
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks, dear, I just might do that soon
Every support she "tries" that people suggest she rejects for not being her "thing" after she goes once or twice....Counselling, AA, religion, etc.....

DemEx
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Buddhist thought would have it
that you are indeed the OCEAN pretending to be a cup of water.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. major truth in that statement
:rofl:

Buddhists rock!!
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oxbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. I started reading it when I was going through my problems with abuse
I think I had a lot of the same problems that you describe...I always felt like I was doing something wrong, because I couldn't believe myself into inner peace. It took a little while and some wise friends before I realized that I was skipping steps. That I had to lay down the ego, and let go of negative emotions from the past first. I am a perfectionist by nature, so that didn't help either.

I have benefited from reading the books based on it, but it has helped to balance them out with real world experience.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. I learned in AA
"You can't think your way into a new way of living, you have to live your way into a new way of thinking"

ponder on that for a while, it's truly deep and life changing once you can internalize that concept

at least it was for me, I could then get down to the business of doing things differently and my thinking changed with every little effort. the "doing" part took work, but the emotions and thoughts came around naturally

:hug:
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I see this more as a triangle of possibilities.
For one, approaching it via feelings works best, for another, through changing behavior, another through working on thoughts, ideas.

ALL can be used for great benefit and change IMO.
Perhaps one approach works best for certain life problems? Or for certain individuals?

The clue is finding the one that works best for yourself, or any combination!

I have used all three, and I can't say that one worked better than another, only that at a particular point in my life, one approach felt more "natural", more valid.

DemEx
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. agreed, and I was vague about the "doing" part
i also was very aware of my inner dialog and that was part of the doing, rephrasing my inner dialog was frustrating and time consuming

but it started with the knowing that the growth was in the action, what ever action it turned out to be

:bounce:
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oxbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. You've both put my mind at ease
As I said in the other thread, this was an issue that's been rattling around in my head for a while. If feels good to know that others have dealt with it and are on the other side of it. :hug: :hug:
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Punkingal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-13-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. My hubby studied it for years....
And found much growth from it. I, on the other hand, tried it, and found it too wordy for my taste, although the message was good, once you throw out 90% of the wordiness. Interesting how that fits with our personalities...hubby uses 100 words to my 10 to say the same thing. LOL
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. LOL....that is why I probably found Jampolsky's book on the basic
Edited on Fri Apr-14-06 06:18 AM by DemExpat
principles of ACIM.....I often much prefer the condensed, concise versions explaining concepts.

He does emphasize choice in our lives, but this empowered me and did not condone wrongdoings.

DemEx
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. A warning and my analysis.
Within the course in miracles there are dangerous assumptions about the origins of the suffering in life people go through.Helen Schucman is a psychologist. So should KNOW better than to write this stuff as if it is therapy. A real trustworthy well TRAINED psychologist with a sense of ethics and empathy for those she seeks to help should not be rationalizing blaming victims for their suffering and unconscious thought processes.

The course in miracles is built upon the premise we "chose" to think our way to our suffering lives.This on the surface looks innocuous maybe even"empowering". But in practice it is very destructive and dis-empowering.If you take this idea she is saying to it's logical conclusions you will realize she is saying children who are raped they by their own thinking "chose" to leave the bliss of god to experience pedophilia.That battered women"chose" to be battered,Sex Slaves"chose"the obscene abuses they go through.

It's really sick to claim what a person 'believes' deep inside themselves ids why they chose to be sent away from god, into a body just to suffer ,all because they think bad thoughts that make bad realities happen all because they forgot they were god.A book like the course in miracles can be bought by anyone,and when desperate hurting people can be harmed by it's teachings it's really sad. Traumatized people should not read it because of the blaming victims for the painful lives they incarnated into mind games she plays in the'course'.


Helen Schucman claims she "channeled" Jesus as she wrote the Course in Miracles.She is a THERAPIST who should KNOW better than to claim she mysteriously wrote such manipulative books that RE TRAUMATIZE victims..and even worse, She says our own beliefs and unconscious processes are what causes us ALL our suffering in life every accident,cancer,mental illness..bad relationships. She is teaching DENIAL and shame and self doubt about thinking..and for traumatized people this can be very dangerous to their sanity..

Her ideas are not new, or original they are not all that"Christian",definitely not Gnostic. The way she uses concepts of "thought reversal" responsibility, and beliefs can be used to minimize and gloss over and excuse all sorts of atrocities from child abuse to cultural crimes like the Caste system.

After all in her opinion,everyone "chooses" their lives with their 'free will. No mention of coercion,lack of information or other factors that occur in life that mitigate the exercise of free will.. Isn't THAT convenient! For HER!.She isn't conscientious ethically and she is not talking as Jesus at all if she is channeling such evil manipulating information that is so abusive,full of guilt inducing claims of impossible burdens of responsibility claiming such lies like someone would "choose" the misery of breast cancer, that whole concept is ludicrous.

Lets look at a few lines..in the Course in Miracles..

The Course exhorts the student to use the ideas presented even though they "will be hard to believe," while others may be "quite startling"
(Preface ix).

Of course those ideas are startling and hard to believe,because it is WRONG,evil and abusive.The reaction to recoil she is anticipating here is self protective response that is NORMAL to have to such a manipulative idea,because it is manipulation. And she admits it herself..

It unashamedly admits that "it cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal of thought" (Manual 24).


Reversal of thought is another term for thought control..Changing who you ARE, by systematically Erasing trust in your own thoughts by uncovering all the unconscious mechanisms and self protective mechanisms a person has built up to stabilize their own personality to cope with life and society and to control the unconscious drives that are not all that 'nice',that all of us have,that we carry from the hurts and bad experiences in our lives..the shadow and 'other' disowned self,that even trained therapists have to understand in themselves to be capable of helping others deal with the unconscious inside.

A course in Miracles has entire lesson devoted to changing the student from all he or she currently believes. This lesson is entitled "My thoughts do not mean anything" (Workbook, 10)

Notice:
This lesson title is in FIRST PERSON narrative and is a DECLARATIVE statement. This kind of statement is a type of loaded speaking called Neuro linguistic programming.. It is a manipulative use of language,marketers use it, CNN does,Psyops uses it. Helen's use of NLP makes language into TOXIC and imposing presupposition on readers it is NLP.

(The translated chapter title taken out of NLP speak,the underlying unconscious reading of that is :

"You,the reader,your thoughts do not mean anything" And because our thoughts and the inner dialog inside as in"thinking" is one way we orient ourselves in the world and can understand who we are through our conscious self perception. So ,her NLP chapter title is even more insidious...it says.."YOU are nothing because all those thoughts of yours,you have inside that self you made, it means NOTHING too and because you think and do not control everything in those thoughts perfectly as GOD does,you are worthless no matter what you think. The Chapter lesson with this EVIL title than instructs you in HOW to throw your mind away and think no more because your thoughts are wrong and harming you and the source of your pain and separation from God..

This sort of "therapy" is DANGEROUS thing to encourage people to do to their own minds and thoughts,because some thoughts even in the most tortured and confused minds are beautiful and belong to that person alone and are theirs and their alone to use as they want to. The name for this mind murdering is "Menticide".She is encouraging Mentacide. Some*gag* Miracle.

When you desperately try to heal by following some pseudo psychological New Age book telling you to tear up everything nasty perceptive wise in your mind and basically kill it to help alleviate your pain,it can invite a mental breakdown and actually destabilize your personality because the course teaches you to mistrust your own mental processes hunt them down and kill them. Training you to treat your own thoughts as if they are suspects,enemies to your own well being,or even worse every bad event in your life that still hurts you or you are not ready to"forgive" or stop keeps you away from god and make you unloveable..Don't let a course in miracles convince you to silence and fear and murder your own thoughts as if mere thoughts of a body of flesh is so powerful it can keep you isolated from your god. That is a big pile of BULLSHIT.

Anyone who's following a "book" and ends up being frightened and suspicious of their own minds and about who they are..Who are tearing into themselves and questioning all their thought processing,can become unaware of being VERY vulnerable to outside influences and manipulators who offer them ANY stability,acceptance,love or reassurances..Especially love-bombing techniques from charismatic(read sociopaths) Personalities and Gurus.
The sorts of manipulative statements like the ones I excerpted from A course in miracles are all throughout those books.
If you already know anything about Neuro Linguistic programming and manipulation techniques,look at the words, the books are is FULL of it, The obvious cues and statements are NLP,guaranteed to mess your head up.

I think , Helen Schucman who wrote that book is evil, she is dangerous,a criminal, a sadist and a liar, hurting and misleading people .She should have her license to practice therapy revoked by the APA.

Another critic
http://skepdic.com/comments/cimcom.html

And if you can,remember these quotes
if you find yourself deeper into the course in miracles..and breaking down..
________________________________________________________________________
The Nazis, through clever exploitation of their victims' unconscious guilt after poking into the back corners of their minds, were often able to convert courageous resistance fighters into meek collaborators....
...The sudden outbreak of hidden moral flaws and guilt can bring a man to tears and complete breakdown. He regresses to the dependency and submissiveness of the baby.
_______________________________________________________________________
Thought reversal?? Digging out my hidden moral flaws than blaming myself for them all will solve all my worldly problems and reunite me with god.... my response is to anyone saying "thought reversal" will cure me,..is a two fingered Fuck you.

____________________________________________________________________
The denial of human freedom.. ( and I add freedom of thought here too)
and equality lifts the authoritarian man beyond his mortal fellows. His temporary power and omnipotence give him the illusion of eternity. In his totalitarianism he denies death and ephemeral existence and borrows power from the future.(the thief of everyone else's tomorrows) He has to invent and formulate a final Truth and protective dogma to justify his battle against mortality and temporariness. From then on, the new fundamental certainty must be hammered into the minds of adepts and slaves.
_______________________________________________________________________
I know there are many sociopath personalities scamming and abusing people in this world .Hammering in a billion different "truths" in billions of minds,and sadly, destroying some of them. Be wary out there.
Educate yourself about manipulation,sociopaths and mind control . It may very well save your mind when you tread into the unknown mysteries and occult knowledge you might explore on your search for spiritual wisdom..

http://www.ninehundred.net/control/mc-ch4.html







.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. thanks panther
ACIM can be a slippery slope to madness if someone is already on shaky ground emotionally

:hug:
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Bluestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. Thank you for talking the truth about NLP
I've been in sales and marketing my entire career and many of my colleagues have studied NLP. Some think it is a miracle in itself. It always seemed very manipulative to me and I had an aversion to it (my intuitive radar said "no"). Those who embraced it (at least in my world) were those who seemed to be ill-confident and scared--they wanted to use NLP to control others because they weren't strong in their own self-esteem. I hope I haven't offended anyone here who may be a proponent of NLP, but this has been my observation. I had no idea that NLP concepts were in the "Course" until now.

When I entered the coaching profession, I was even more shocked to find personal and business coaches who used and taught NLP techniques. Coaching is about finding out "who you are" not trying to manipulate your environment so that you don't have to face your issues. NLP would seem to be the opposite of this.

Just my two cents. . .
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KAT119 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Thank you,undergroundpanther, for your great analysis...
now I know why every time I tried to read 'the course '("This is a required course" Shucman wrote) all I wanted to do was throw it out the window--for which thought I immediately felt guilty!!

I wish she had said to just turn within & feel your divine presence and more will be revealed...which is what I finally learned 25 years after trying to "believe in" 'the course'. Feeling =(operant word) is the experience never discussed. I have been a TM
meditator since the 60's-and mantras are 'thought' not 'felt'. Everything is thought about - but our divine essence = the ONE energy within the universe -must be FELT to be known - how can it be cognized or known mentally?

When I read Echardt Tolle's little book: "Practicing The Power Of Now" (his second book after the best seller:" The Power Of Now") I went from Seeker to Finder, finally....
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-14-06 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. don't know anything about 'a course in miracles'
but from the posts, it sounds a bit like 'est'. i found est to be very valuable but being that it was very 'experiential', it's unlikely you could get the experience from a book. In retrospect, i see it as a profound initiatory experience - as unlikely as that may seem.

Too bad it no longer exists. From what i've seen Landmark Seminars (which est morphed into) doesn't provide the same experience or results.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-15-06 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
34. A DU'er who can't post here has some information for you
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
35. I haven't read all of the information, but I did not at all...
resonate with the information that I read in "A Course In Miracles". (I stopped reading when it became clear to me that it wasn't my path.) However, I know many, many people who have had their lives drastically changed because of it. It's not for me, but it really worked for them.

:hi:
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. ooops, meant my post#36 to be in response to you, not the OP n/t
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
36. excellent post on the topic--ooops this is supposed to be a response to
Edited on Tue Apr-18-06 11:38 AM by AZDemDist6
I Have a Dream (post 35) not to the OP :blush:



if it speaks to your heart, follow it.

if it doesn't, don't


how simple is that? I fear too often folks try to make the spiritual journey something complex and mysterious when it is, in reality, a joyful journey that should be as simple as can be.

follow your heart, listen to what you "know" rather than what you have taught to "believe"

look for the coincidences, ask for help, be open and the answers come

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