Women (venting)

[mrgorth]

I know this isn't the place for this but I thought I'd get more insightful responses here than in the lounge. I'll try to make this short. I started seeing a girl I met on match.com back in August and we really liked each other. We saw each other for about 3 weeks and it was going great but she remained active on match which bugged me. Next thing you know an opportunity presents itself with a girl I was after for a few months. This girl lives right around the corner from me and we have a lot of common friends. This would prevent me from seeing the 2 girls at the same time I thought. So I break up with the match girl and, of course, things with the local girl fizzle out as fast as they started. I tried to get back with match girl but she wouldn't have it. A few weeks ago I tried to send her a bottle of shiraz with an apology note. I never heard anything so I went on. Yesterday, out of the blue she e-mails me that seeing Patrick Murphy (PA-8)'s campaign commercials remind her of me and make her smile thinking of her first date (which was Patrick's wedding reception). I asked her if she got the shiraz, which she didn't (she sounded excited that I would do that). I told her I thought about her a lot and gave her my number in case she deleted me and wanted to call. Of course I stared at my phone all last night with no call.:cry:

I called the wine people and here I gave them the wrong phone number for her. So now I'm left with leaving her alone or asking her for her number so the damned wine can at least get to her. I feel like I'm being tortured he (I'm an intense guy and I miss her bad). ARGH! For anyone who wants to check on this my birthday is 5/15/69 4:00pm Philadelphia. Please don't yell at me for posting this.

[mother earth]

1. Stop waiting for the phone phone to ring & zip off an email...

heck send her one of those e-cards. You can think of something clever that doesn't make you look desperate & DON'T BE DESPERATE!!! Women & men alike do not want any one who is too NEEDY.
Have fun with your life & enjoy all it has to offer and guess what? No doubt someone has told you before that IT will happen when you least expect it. Has it occurred to you that she might be thinking the same thing & has purposely waited before she intends to call you?

It also wouldn't hurt to view The Secret, if you haven't already done so.

Can't help you with astrological aspects, but no doubt someone else here can. Just thought I'd give you some "motherly" advice...I've always told my sons to take their time & never rush into anything. Sometimes the longer you wait to commit yourself to an exclusive relationship, the longer it will last. You broke up with her after three weeks of seeing her? Why would you not continue to see others, if she was intending to stay on the list at match.com? Those two points are puzzling to me, committment should always be mutual. Anyhoo...these are the things we "learn" from.

I don't know about the other women here, but I thoroughly enjoy handing out advice, lol!
Wish I could help with the astrological aspects....good luck, mrgorth! and do let us know how you progress! :)

[mrgorth]

3. Well

the whole thing with the other woman...she's in the ladies' auxillary of a fraternity I belong to and she's pretty fresh out of a marriage. So, I thought that if I was seeing the both of them that I would wind up in hot water. Nonetheless, I know it was only 3 weeks but we were having sex, staying nights at each other's place. To me it just seemed like she shouldn't have always been "active within 24 hours" on match. Part of the problem is that I'm an intense guy and I was very infatuated with her.

[I Have A Dream]

2. Did you notice that she called you even though she...

hadn't received your bottle of wine? Therefore, in her eyes, she actually made the first move to reconnect with you. That's promising. In my opinion, it's your turn to call since she made the last move (in her eyes since she didn't receive your wine) to reconnect.

Other than this, I'm not sure what you're wanting from us here, mrgorth. :)

[mrgorth]

4. Anything but unconstructive criticism

is welcome. I'm more than happy to call, I just don't know her number anymore. Sent off a mail asking for it so that the wine can be sent. If I get no answer than...I have an answer. :(

[mother earth]

5. I agree, IHAD....and she certainly wouldn't call right away after

that...she's gotta pace herself & maybe doesn't get it that he doesn't have her number any more, that's why I suggested an email might be appropriate.

LOL, they are probably at opposite ends of the phone saying the same things. (Sorry, mrgorth, but I was just visualizing it...easy for me to say, not being involved in anyway & being very glad I'm not single...but remember what I said about the committment being mutual. Don't you dare let her stay on match.com as an active member & you be the only exclusive one...that's hardly fair at all. Perhaps she does not have the committment gene...if that is an issue for you, better to know now.)

[cassiepriam]

6. Mr. Gorth

Once you dump a girl because some one better came a long,
getting her to go out with you again is a long shot, especially if
she has any self respect.

I think you might want to reflect on how you are your own worst enemy.

[Habibi]

7. Well, I don't know about that

match.com girl *was* still, erm, active, right? So the same could be said of her--she was keeping herself out there in case "something better" came along.

mrgorth, you sound like a decent guy. If she sends you her number, call her right away. If she doesn't, move on.

You know (and this probably isn't going to be too helpful), I've never really "dated" in my life. I've always hung out with groups of friends and found my partners within those groups. Maybe what you're looking for is right under yer nose?

[cassiepriam]

9. Yes but she did not dump him. She kept her options open.

She did not treat him in this way. And now he wants her back.

And she has a right to stay on Match, they had only been dating a few weeks! Good grief, that is way too soon to make any commitment!

Mr Gorth could have done a better job handling all of this. At one point he had two women, now he has none.

He did it to himself. I am just trying to help him see that it is not about the stars, it is about his social skills. I agree Mr Gorth is a decent guy,
but when it comes to women he needs some help.

[lildreamer316]

19. I venture this possibility, cassie...

I think maybe he thought that she should/would act more like it was a commitment since they were having sex -I believe he did post that upthread but I'd better go doublecheck.....okay think I'm right here. I'm not saying either his or her expectations were right or wrong, just that they have obviously been misunderstood. It's a bit of reversal of "traditional" roles, in other words. Maybe he could have handled it better, but it sounds more like signals got badly crossed.
A bit of frank conversation could possibly go a long way to clearing this up. I don't get the sense that he really wanted to treat her as just another date, but was confused and made some hasty decisions.

Mr Gorth, if you are ever inclined to take any advice from me, it would be this: That Mars & Venus stuff really really does work. I happened upon the tapes of his whole program (in VHS in the late 90's) and it opened my eyes...helped me understand men so much better. Even just the book. I know it sounds hokey, but the man is right ON.

Best of luck...don't give up.

[cassiepriam]

20. This is an interesting discussion.

And a reflection of the current state of dating in America today I think. And you raise an excellent point about the lack of communication in this case.

It seems to me that people today get sexually involved very quickly, on the first or second date. I am in no way making a moral judgment about this, it is what it is. But psychologically it seems to set up some expectations and fantasies that are totally unrealistic. Here you have a couple who has only known each other for three weeks and one partner is already miffed because the other is still dating!

Three weeks for most people is way too soon to make any type of commitment. They do not even know each other, and obviously there is a total lack of communication.

And if a man tried to tell me what to do or not to do after only three weeks of knowing him I would run for the hills, because he would strike me as way too controlling. If a guy is going to start bossing me around on week three, what the heck is the marriage going to be like?

And he wanted exclusivity from her, but he was obviously free to keep looking around and did so.
In fact dumping girl one for girl two. So it was a double standard.

I think girl no 1 did the right thing. She kept her options open, she burned no bridges. When Mr Gorth ended the relationship abruptly in a way that did not feel right she would not have him back. But now she may be re thinking the situation and has sent him a flirty email indicating possible interest. That is fine, but I think they are going to have to talk about what happened and clear the air if they are going to have an adult relationship, instead of playing games with each other.

This is all just my .02.

And Mr Gorth if you read this, I hope you understand I am trying to help you. Otherwise I would just let you keep shooting yourself in the foot. So take the info as it is intended, as help.

If you are going to ask for help from women, you have to be ready to hear their collective wisdom and not take it personally or get defensive, or get into the poor me mode.

If you want a healthy adult relationship then you have to start thinking and acting like a healthy adult male!
Water seeks its own level, and that is how you are going to attract a healthy adult female.

I know you can do this or I would not be trying to help you. So think hard about what everyone is saying to you!

I have a strong feeling that if you can listen and learn you are going to do much better with women and it will all pay off for you!

[mrgorth]

22. Not offended at all`

I appreciate constructive criticism. I probably did move too fast and it probably is because I want the end product, a committed relationship (with her I might add) now. I will try and act differently if there is a next time. That said, please understand, I wasn't looking for anyone. Girl 2 was someone I made contact with well before the girl in question. A heavy IM session turned into an impromptu date and because of our social ties, I didn't think I should date anyone but her. Seeing that girl 1 was always active on match kind of sealed the deal but, again, I know I was wrong.

[cassiepriam]

23. Good, you are making progress :) Maybe Mars can learn Venus!

And yes I know you were not looking for anyone,
my point is that you kept your options open, but were miffed that gal no 1 did the same. You just had visible evidence that she was doing what you were doing on a more subtle level. And it is fine to date around. You are single and not committed to anyone at this point.

I also think you are trying way too hard. You need to relax and go with the flow more. Try to be realistic and less controlling. Date a number of women and don't make commitments nor expect any too early in the dating relationship. Do not burn any bridges, and try to be have more honest communication with women from the beginning.

[lildreamer316]

28. Yes, agree completely.

Bottom line is that we all need to be less afraid of simple, honest communication. However, I do understand that sometimes you are confused about what you want personally, and one has to be clear about that before you can tell it to someone else!
That's a hard lesson learned, lemme tell ya!:dunce:

[cassiepriam]

29. It is OK to be confused in matters of the heart

but the important part is to communicate that to the other person, be honest about all of it.

It is OK to say I am confused, I am not sure how I feel or what I want right now.

Then you let the other person decide if he or she can tolerate some ambiguity.

[mrgorth]

10. She has no idea there was another woman

That said, I am my own worst enemy, which is why I wonder why I keep going. I don't know if it's even worth it.

[Why Syzygy]

11. Make some friends.

I think this has been suggested before. I have gone through a huge heart break this summer. That relationship was a year and a half and the first one I have allowed myself in years. Heartache is average. It happens to everyone. No need to go off the deep end.

Once you start getting some Interests, go to some meetups or church or ride a bike, anything, things will begin to heal and you will find the world is full of fun and interesting people. It probably won't feel comfortable at first. Didn't you just go through a divorce last year? Can you realize, which I admit is hard to do, that we don't have to have someone in our bed to be happy? It is the ideal, but self growth is more important. I guess. I'm no expert.

[mrgorth]

12. Yeah

I'm honestly doing all those things. I'm very busy and active. That said, I'm all but completely weaned off my anti-depressants and I'm finding myself dealing with a lot of anger and frustration. My ex took our whole network of friends with her. I'm letting my match account die because I'm tired of the games and I'm trying to be OK by myself. Remember, the whole thread was started by my just wondering why she would initiate contact like that and then just roll. I've never understood women.

[Why Syzygy]

13. Your last statement is the answer.

You never will. When I did the internet dating thing, I had a series of questions to rule out those I knew would not fit. One of my questions was, "Do you understand women"? Anyone who said, oh sure, yep, completely, was OUT. The best answer I ever got was, "who do you think I am, Houdini"?

As much as women would like to think a man can understand her, the reality is, they just can't. They can do many other things. But understanding us is not one of them. Isn't that why you are asking us? ;)

ps. I don't believe women play games. We are just women and men don't understand and interpret that as being gamey. Any man who gets tired of the games is admitting that he is still trying to figure out women and has not surrendered to the fact that it can't be done. We are much more fun when someone isn't trying to figure us out all the time. If a woman is materialistic, she lets that be known in a pretty direct manner. If she is spiritual, same. Whiner, pretty upfront. No games.
:rant:

[mrgorth]

14. It's just painful

I had completely written her off until this. Then she had to go and reignite hope.

[cassiepriam]

17. The universe is sending you lessons to help you learn and grow.

You can face them with courage and strength, or give up.
But if you give up, you are just going to have to face
it all again in your next life. Why not just learn the lessons
now and then move on to the next level of your growth?

Take a good look at the whole story you presented, rewind the tape from the beginning. And identify where you went wrong and what you could do differently in hindsight. This turns the pain into something productive, a good learning experience for you.

None of us is perfect, we all make mistakes. But we need to not make them again!

And in all fairness to you, dealing with women is not an easy task. Females are complex creatures, complicated and sometimes seen by men as impossible to figure out. But it is possible, have some patience and courage and you can do this! And finding the right woman to have a satisfying, healthy adult relationship with is well worth it!

[cassiepriam]

18. PS It matters not at all what she knew or didn't know.

The point is that you ticked her off so badly
that she would not even consider a reconciliation.
You burned a bridge that later you wished you hadn't.

Now, the fact that she sent you an unsolicited email means you might just have a chance. And the reason I am giving you a reality sandwich is that I don't want you to blow it again Mr Gorth. It is a bit of a long shot but you might pull it off if you handle things better this time.

Gather your wits, courage and wisdom. And give it your best shot.

[mrgorth]

21. I will

thanks. I don't mind the reality sandwich. Hey, I had accepted that I had blown it and had no shot. I just didn't understand the unsolicited contact and then disappearance. It's been explained and it does still seem over but I'll try and be patient and see what happens. I hate being intense. I want to take a pill that makes me easy going.:cry:

[cassiepriam]

24. That was odd that she did that.

But women tend to send mixed messages to men and I know it is confusing. Hard to tell if her email was female code for "I am interested in you again", or if she was "just being friendly". That is one of the hardest things for men to decipher.

At any rate, keep that option open in case she contacts you again. In the meantime get back into the dating scene.

And yes your intensity may be scaring women.

You don't have to take a pill to lower the intensity.
Try daily meditation and getting involved perhaps in helping others. Those two things can really make a difference.

[mrgorth]

25. Well,

I do siberian husky rescue work, political volunteering (of course) and just started doing respite care for the menally handicapped as a 2nd part time gig. I try to excercise and what not. Still, don't know how much I can change my DNA. I think I have to accept that I may be alone going forward.

[cassiepriam]

26. Well,

1. You cannot change your DNA, but there is a huge body of research that shows meditation does significantly change body chemistry. For example, it can lower the cortisol levels that may contribute to the wired, intense feeling you have.

2. Whether you are alone or not is up to you to a large extent. Free will is stronger than any karma or astrological configuration. Keep working on being the best you can be, think about the comments the women have made here and stay open to what the universe sends you.

3. Very good on the service. And you never know, you just may meet a girl thru some of this work.

[mrgorth]

27. .

:pals:

[Quakerfriend]

8. Well mrgorth, I would agree that she did 'make the first move'

by contacting you. I don't know if you really have a chance with her after what's happened but, Why don't you go over to her house and drop off a note and another bottle??

[Me.]

15. I Agree With Quakerfriend

But take it slow and lower your expectations about being able to jump right back in. IMHO, Cassie, upthread is right also. You dumped her and now amends must be made. She gave you an opening but why not start off just trying to be friends at first?

*shadow government*

[mother earth]

16. mrgorth, with all due respect to you, a man must decide what it

is he wants and this back and forth wondering stuff....let it go...not good....go after what you want, but be sure you want it. If you are not sure you must go slow...wait it out, but she absolutely did make the first move by contacting you. She is being transparent. If you are afraid to contact her via email you will suffer the consequences and no whining allowed. If you don't want games, don't play them. ;)

[TankLV]

30. You are not ready for a serious relationship. Period.

You met a nice person on-line.

Things were going nicely.

Some one new came into view, you decided to go after the new person and drop the previous one.

The new relationship tanked, so you tried to go back to the other one.

You said you sent the one person something which she didn't get - which makes HER the one who is really reaching out to you IN SPITE THE FACT THAT YOU DUMPED HER - which is remarkable.

But you wonder why it's all failing miserably for YOU.

Me, me, me, me, me...

You need to take an assessment of your actions and what you REALLY want.

You are not willing to commit to whomever you decide you like at the moment.

You have proven you want to keep your options open - just so you are not "left alone" or without somebody taking care of YOUR needs.

There is nothing "wrong" with what your have done/are doing.

We've all been there.

It's part of the process of learning what we really want and desire.

The good news is that the universe is opening up all these possibilities to you.

The bad news is, don't be surprised if the universe is as confused as you are, and reacts to your confusion with more confusion, and especially don't be surprised if you are comming in to a long spell of NO options romantically.

You WILL find that special someone - it just might not be as quick as you want.

Suggestion: Stop looking and enjoy life and the moment you are experiencing NOW. Things will fall into place. You will find what you are looking for when you stop looking for it.