What on earth is the matter with people?

[SeattleGirl]

I was looking at a few of the threads in GD about Gerald Ford's passing. There are some people who wish him peace, but there are also some who are practically spitting on the man before he's even buried.

I'm not saying he was the best President, but I am saying that I do not understand that mindset. Have we not all at one time or another done something that was not reflective of the best in us? Have we not all at one time or another made choices or decisions that, in hindsight, we may wish we had not chosen or decided?

It wounds my soul to see these kinds of mean and hateful posts. I'm not saying that what someone may have done isn't wrong, or could have done better, shouldn't be discussed. But attacking a person, particularly just after they have passed away, in such a mean spirited way, is just beyond me.

And sometimes, when I read stuff like that, I think, "What is wrong with me? I don't feel like that. Am I stupid or something? Is there something I'm not getting?"

But then I think, no, there's nothing wrong with me, I'm not stupid. and if I don't "get it" that I should be mean and nasty, then I'm fine with that.

I want to be better than that; I want to be a person who can forgive, or whatever you want to call it. I don't want to sink to what I feel is a low level. And I want to be an example, a positive one, for others, if I possibly can.

[Why Syzygy]

1. wrong person to talk to here

I wish the man no disgrace, but I refuse! to sit by while DUers call him prince. He was not.

Rest his soul, but please do not paint a tainted picture of history.

I haven't seen any of the evil ones. Just the ones praising him to high glory! I do object to that. That isn't history, doll. He was president for a few months and he was a man to be proud of, but not a statesman by any stretch.

No one should attack the living or the dead.

[SeattleGirl]

22. No, he was not a prince, and those who ignore the

negative things he did are as wrong (IMHO) as those who paint him as completely bad and evil. Both ways of looking at the man ignore the whole person. No one is pure evil or pure good.

[Why Syzygy]

2. I am honestly

aching to see a mean post about "President" Ford. All I see all over DU is accolades for a questionable *polite* non-president. Let's don't start in ASAH.

Rest him in peace but not on DU!!!! damm

[SeattleGirl]

23. I wasn't trying to start a flame thread by posting what I did.

I was just feeling irked at the reaction of some people to Ford's death, though I have also seen some very negative things posted about other people too. That was my focus, not the specific person or persons.

[Why Syzygy]

25. I didn't mean you, SG

:hug: The big forum was run amok. Not you, hon.

[SeattleGirl]

26. Thanks so much.

Sometimes posts can be misinterpreted, because you can't hear the person say what they are posting, and can't see their face or body language. Glad that wasn't the case here. :hug:

[Celebration]

3. Ford

I don't feel like that either. But it doesn't keep me from making judgments about people. When one of our current leaders dies at age 90+, if I am still around, I am likely to feel differently than I do about Ford now.

[hippiechick]

4. He was a typical opportunistic republican ...

I'm not going to be mean and hateful, but I'm not going to praise the man when he was obviously deeply involved in some of the darkest goings-on in this country's history.

He's dead. Gone. Spirit and those on the other side can pass judgement on him and how he conducted his Earthly life.

[Why Syzygy]

7. Well said, hippieckick .

And let it go.

I said my rebel piece. Glanced at the paper's headline today which went something like this..
Rid of Nixon, Ford has the job. That, right there, is enough to honor.

I love your phrase, Spirit and those on the other side ...

not to hijack, but when I went to Intenders there was a woman there who insisted that when we called on spirits they all be from 'the right side of the harp'. It is some training she has I presume.
Her safety.

So, I call on Spirit and those on the Right side of the Harp to judge the just and the unjust. Created equal. And let it be so.

You inspired me. :D

[hippiechick]

9. Hi Votes!

:hi: How was your holiday?

I didn't get that thing that I was hoping for.
But maybe the real gift is in accepting that it may not be meant to be mine. :shrug:

The RIGHT side of the harp? Hmmm. Hope they're not meaning the "GOP side" :)

[Why Syzygy]

13. It was a protective mechanism

for her, and made me feel safer too, someone there looking after the spirits. Since we invited them into our circle, boundaries had to be set. I know little of that.

I got more than I was hoping for. Or just enough. pm box ..

So how did you and the Puppies enjoy the snow and frolic and holiday? Good?

If not, Santa is not done yet!

[hippiechick]

19. aaah, protective mechanism understood.

O8)


No snow, some frolic ... its mostly been nice to just have peace and quiet.

Nah, I need to accept that Santa (and Spirit and everyone else) knows best and that this gift that I wanted so much is not - paraphrasing IHAD - for the greater good of us both.

I'll get to 'okay' with that at some point, hopefully soon. :hug:


:hi:

[MorningGlow]

5. I know what you mean, SG

It's so easy to hate; harder--much, much harder--to see the big picture. I know Ford did some unpleasant and unwise things during his tenure as president (are there any presidents who didn't?) but I can't hate him unequivocally for eternity--even bad enough to trash-talk him after he's passed. He was human--fallible. What was that thing Jesus said? Something about cutting folks some slack in the hopes that they do the same for you when you slip up? Or perhaps I'm paraphrasing... :)

In any case, there's nothing wrong with you. And there's nothing wrong with the other folks either. Some people are following a path that inspires them to be forgiving and nonjudgmental; many others are on a different path and are using their passion (which sometimes manifests as anger and even hatred) to bring about the change they feel is necessary in the world.

[Why Syzygy]

8. Your

"jesus quote" is right on mark. Cut people some slack! We might even add, it will come round but that's not why you do it. It's just the right thing.

[stellanoir]

6. I just can't get past remembering

Chevy Chase repeatedly imitating him falling down on SNL.

But seriously, I think the divisiveness and confusion finds its roots in the fact that for some, the weirdness of the extremism of the * "misadministration" makes the misdeeds of the past pale by comparison.

And yeah I'm aware of what happened in East Timor.

In answer to your thread title. . .people are people and all have a delicate blend of attributes and frailties. That's all.

[Pathwalker]

10. The day Nixon resigned, I held my sobbing Grama

in my arms, trying to comfort her as best I could. She was a life-long Republican, and I was already a hard-core anti-war Democrat who blamed Nixon for continuing a terrible war. She was so distraught, so worried that America was coming completely undone, that in my efforts to comfort her, I actually convinced her that Nixon resigning would be good for America, in the long run. She called me the day Ford pardoned Nixon, sounding happier than she'd been since I'd last seen her - her fears for America were lessened by that action, and I smiled, in my heart as well.
Today, some of us in Michigan are not reacting as Democrats, but as Michiganians - our only favorite son to ever become President has died. After all our state's been through this year, this just adds more to the hurt we're already feeling. He was a man, no more, no less. But I refuse to be a grave-pisser today. If the compassion I feel for his family, who loved him dearly, makes me a weak-kneed wussy, I can live with that. Hate only withers one's own soul.
Vaya con Dios, President Ford.

[Cleita]

12. My mom was a hard core Republican too and she believed

to her dying day that he had been railroaded and all those things they said about him weren't true because if they were true he would have been tried and put in prison.

:eyes:

[Pathwalker]

14. Well, I had the privilege of convincing my Grama

that Nixon was guilty! Pluse, she voted for Jimmy Carter because he was a "real Christian, not just someone who said that to get elected! It was her last presidential vote too, before she died, and her first for a Democrat.

As for that pardon, we'll never really know for sure whether or not it kept America from coming apart at the seams - we were fraying badly, by then, but the trial would have strained our nation even more. Still, it was heartening to read that he never let the Secret Service clean up his dog's poo, but insisted that was his duty as the pet's owner. I can't see * doing that, OR making his own breakfast, and doing the dishes so his wife didn't have to do it. Betty Ford helped this nation, too - being the first woman to ever talk about her breast cancer turned the subject from taboo to perfectly fine. Her clinic has also helped many people, and took alcoholism and substance abuse out of the closet, too.

I just wish politics hadn't become so nasty, that the death of someone from politics means they are no longer anything but their worst mistake. If we've walked this planet, we've made mistakes, but why must those mistakes be all we are remembered for?

[SeattleGirl]

21. Very good point, about being remembered only for our mistakes.

I think that is what is bothering me the most about the negative posts I've seen about President Ford. Some are painting him as some sort of monster, which is not more true of him than if one said he were a saint. He was a human being, who did some good things, some bad things, and many things that had no impact on the country at all.

[Cleita]

11. I'm listening to Thom Hartmann right now on the Al Franken

show and I think he's giving a pretty balanced opinion of Ford. He's praising the good but also pointing out the actions that he did that weren't good for the country. He qualified it as saying that he believes Ford died thinking he had done the right thing, something that other Presidents cannot believe like Johnson knew he had done the wrong thing with Vietnam.

[SeattleGirl]

15. I heard part of that.

And I agree with him. Ford was far from perfect, but he wasn't the epitomy of evil either, which is what was bothering me about some of the posts I was reading. It's one thing to point out the bad, wrong, or misguided things someone has done, or to talk about the harm someone has done. But it just seems that some people have decided that because Ford did things that weren't good, no one should be allowed to say anything good about him. It's the same kind of good/evil, black/white thinking that Bush does, when you come down to it.

[Cleita]

18. Some of our more ideological DUers are overly critical at times

even of our own. I agree this black/white, it's them or us thinking is more right wing than it is left wing because it's so divisive and intentionally so.

[lildreamer316]

16. I'm gonna "platitude" this a bit.

Platitude: It's not anyone's place to hate or judge; for good or ill.

NOW; having said that; what I take that to mean in my current spiritual development is that it does no one personally any good to judge. It creates negativity in your energy field and unbalances you. It just can't be good for anyone! Would you like anyone and everyone to be judging you on your life? All of it? President or no, we all have things we are proud of and things we are not. I hope Ford's time in office served to teach him and others about the use and misuse of power; among other things. Maybe next time around he will have less to learn.
All that anger many have for him--maybe we need to h'opo__________ it. What does that teach me about myself?
Personally, being the age I am (33); I remember the Regan years in a more negative light just because I was aware of what was going on. I was sickened by the display for him when he died; and it still annoys me the hero-worship many have for him. I have to remember constantly that it was his ideas; many of which seem to be coming from those who put him in power; that I have such a problem with. I have to look at him and his gang as lesson-teachers. You can't know what the light is if you've never seen the darkness. Know what I mean? They serve a purpose. I hope we've learned the lesson well enough to not need teachers like him, Nixon, Ford, Bush and etc. again. 'Cause they sure have done overkill on it; I'd say.:eyes: Guess we needed to learn this lesson really well.
Anyway; I understand; SeattleGirl; why this irritates the crap outta ya. Believe me. But; if you're having a hard time letting go of the negative feelings about him; just remember that you could possibly be hurting yourself by feeling like that; and Ford has to face the worst judge of all:
Himself.

Don't worry-he'll get what he deserves. Everyone always does; it just may not be what you think it is. Perspective is everything.
Your irritation may also be coming from the fact that you feel, sometimes, like many of us on this path do: Evolve, dammmit!
Sometimes we get tired of waiting for the collective group to "catch up" as it were.

:hug: Sorry if I sound preachy. Really don't mean to. Just concerned for your personal energy welfare; I promise that's all.

Oh; and this will make you feel better too(hee hee-contradicting myself a tad):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2983141

[SeattleGirl]

17. You hit it just right: "Evolve, damnit!!"

I used to be angry almost all the time, but not anymore. Not saying I don't get angry (I have to exert a lot of control over myself when I see or hear Bush.....), but overall, I'm in a much better frame of mind, and I understand far more how negative emotions can really toss me off balance.

It just seems as if there are people who just WAIT for anything to come along that will allow them to pick up their clubs and start bashing away. :eyes:

Again, I'm not saying that people shouldn't talk about the not-so-good things that Ford did; I'm certainly not trying to whitewash his record. But on the other hand, I AM saying that demonizing the man to the extent that some people are bothers me. Goodness, to read some of the posts, he is worse than Nixon and Bush I and II all rolled into one.

[BuelahWitch]

29. Sometimes I wonder how much of the anger and hatred

displayed by both sides (Liberal and Conservative) plays into creating our current situation? Like you, SG, I used to be angry all the time. And I created angry people around me, which I didn't like. Since then I've backed off a bit with the politics (which, to me, is alot like the game of "king of the hill"-one side is up and the other is fighting for control, aways) and tried to focus on what I want, and not what I don't want. That doesn't mean that I don't still get angry, or take a "pollyanna" view of things. I do, but I choose my battles.

Gerald Ford was a flawed person like the rest of us. He did what he thought was best at the time. I'm not going to waste my day being angry about him, or hating him.

[lildreamer316]

46. ....which is exactly the point made in the Secret.

Not trying to pimp the movie again; just recognizing the point-that whole Mother Theresa story about a Rally for Peace instead of anti-war; etc.
Exactly it. I have done the same as you. I absolutely LOVE this site; but I choose not to invest emotionally in the anger and sniping that prevails in GD and etc. I pick my battles; if I even "battle" at all.

[TexasLady]

20. while i dont believ e in the Bible as solemn truth...

I appreciate a lot of it's advice..
one being, the wages of sin is death.
seems to me that it makes sense that whatever ill we do toward others, is forgiven and forgotten (or at least should be) at death.
It seems dumb to hate a dead guy. No one is hurt by the hate but you. Let whatever "God" is, sort it out...and personally, I hope I am forgiven for my own horrible deeds in life, and get some sort of clean slate.
anyways, easier said than done. To stop the hate is waaay harder to do for some of us than for others. Maybe we will get there eventually. Hey, so long as we are trying! Bless you for at least trying.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Why Syzygy]

27. There is room here

for all. Hope you can stay. I was doing battle for a while on the big forum to try to bring some reason to the ones 'honoring' Ford. That was so long ago and has so little to do with what we deal with now. I gave it up. So what. We are united NOW.

Really hope you can stay.

[LaurenG]

30. I hope you'll reconsider

not everyone is as mad at Ford as they are at other things/people/places in their lives.

As far as metaphysical hogwash it's the same principals Christ and all the great teachers taught about. They didn't expect that we'd be perfect at the art of living but just showed an example of what could be done.

I think that's the place we try to steer each other to. It's not the place we all are. If we were I doubt any of us would be on the planet right now.

We're all just regular people trying to make it the best we know how, warts and all.

[I Have A Dream]

32. Everyone has the right to their voice. I'm sorry that someone expressing...

theirs would make you abandon the group, but if this is what you have to do, so be it.

I hope that we never become a group that would make people afraid to speak their own truth.

[Cleita]

40. This group is about opening your mind to all possibilities.

If you can't do that, then this isn't the forum for you. You don't have to accept everything that is posted here in your beliefs, but you should respect the right of that poster to be able to present his/her ideas here without insulting them.

[Why Syzygy]

28. All I'm going to say .

is do not get toooo sentimental .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2982603

We have work to do.

[BanzaiBonnie]

31. The one rule at this gramndma's house...

is to "always be as kind as you can".


Most times it's easy to be kind and sometimes it's all you can do to... be kind. That's when you get a real work-out.

[Tsiyu]

33. People are just disgusted and angry

and wanting to vent on the nearest target.

Forgiveness is good, but as your sigline relates: Silence is consent.

We cannot give leaders a free pass when they die. Ford enabled the evil and benefited greatly from it. How many old people die alone and in pain and poverty because of his and the rest of the Repuke's policies and agenda?

Some will not be silent about his participation in that evil, and I fully understand their venting.

Yes, I am trying to be a more forgiving person myself, studying the Tao te Ching and focusing on more positive reactions and projections, but I realize that, owning to the despicable state our nation is in, there is a great deal of anger out there. There is nothing "wrong" with being justifiably angry. It is a symptom of our frustration and suffering.

Please try to understand and forgive those who are struggling and those who might respond in ways you find disheartening. They are doing the best they can, too.

[SeattleGirl]

36. Please understand, I'm not saying people should be silent.

People should speak out at injustice, etc. I think what gets me the most is the personal attacks against anyone who says anything positive about Ford, or anyone else that some people deem unacceptable. There is a difference between venting ABOUT what a person did/does, and attacking someone because they don't see that person in the same way. Does that make sense?

[Tsiyu]

39. Absolutely

I understand where you're coming from there. There are some real cruel folks on DU, as there are everywhere.

And some may not be cruel per se, but they are temporarily acting out of their anger and pain.

Myself? I've avoided all of the Ford threads. He's dead. We should be tormenting the living Repukes if we want to torment anyone. But that is me...:)

[Grateful for Hope]

41. I so agree with you

I also have given some thought to his wife who suffered through addiction and breast cancer. I couldn't help but think that, since both illnesses are stress-related, that she did not always agree with his decisions, or perhaps she did not agree with what he was made to represent (and do) as president.

I wish he would have said "NO" to the pardon.

What a different place our country might be in if he had.

[Pathwalker]

34. On Fairness and Redemption:

I have always believed that both fairness and redemption are integral to the spiritual path, and that without both of them, there is no point in striving for "spirituality". If none of us are nothing more than our worst moment in our lives, then why must we continue to live after that moment. Why strive for a redemption that will never come - why bother? Why work to become a better person, if no one will ever even give you credit for at least TRYING?

We live in nation that has become so angry, so bloodthirsty for the blood and bones of our enemies that we scream our hate as though it was justice we seek, and not vengeance. Wise ones have stated that justice without mercy is naught but vengeance - were they wrong? It's not as if America even has a "Justice" system - we threw that out for a legal system a long time ago. You can kill your ex-wife while your children sleep in the next room, and do ten years - with good behavior. You can grab a child off the street, take her home and rape her - and get two years. Have an ounce of pot - life without parole. THAT'S justice? If fairness is not worth being a part of who we are and how we deal with the world around us, then explain to me, please how spewing hatred is such a virtue, because I don't GET that - I really don't.

You see, I don't offer Gerald Ford fairness just because it's the right thing to do, but because I also feel that there's more to Bill Clinton than his sleazy affair with Monica, there's more to Ted Kennedy than that night in Chappaquiddick, there's more to Jimmy Carter than his lusting after Poland ;-), there's more to James Brown than his beating his wives, there's far more to each and every one of us than our mistakes, even our worst ones. We are ALL both light and dark, good and bad. We ALL make mistakes, we have ALL sinned. The Bible states that AS we judge we WILL be judged. Put another way, our own judgment stick will be used to judge OUR life. Considering some of the mistakes I've made in my life, I have made the decision to add fairness and mercy to MY judgment stick - just to make sure that when it time for me to be judged, I will be granted that same fairness and mercy which I have tried to grant others. What you give to others will be given to you, etc., and all that. I have tried to live by this all my life.

Am I wrong here?

[stellanoir]

35. beautifully put

kudos you :)

[SeattleGirl]

37. Well said.

:hi:

[I Have A Dream]

38. I think that you're absolutely right.

I have to say, however, that I'm going to have a very difficult time walking the walk when George W. Bush finally passes over to the other side. It's not so difficult for me with Ford.

[Why Syzygy]

42. Wonderful post.

Words to live by.

[BuelahWitch]

43. Great post!

:hi:

[bliss_eternal]

44. Nice post...

If I may add...

I shudder to think of how one of our most recent President's will be viewed by some upon his death. Discussions of cigars, blue dresses and such are sure to be brought up. No one that liked him or what his administration did is going to want to hear any of that, when they are mourning the loss of his life. ;)

People are entitled to mourn their losses without others diminishing their feelings. That may not be anyone's intent(to diminish), but it may feel that way to those that are in a place of sadness and mourning right now.

[lildreamer316]

45. Exactly so.

Thank you for saying it so well.

[Brewman_Jax]

47. Let's not forget

this is Democratic Underground. One shouldn't expect evenhandedness.

No doubt that everyone has done something most unbecoming, but that only affects only the people around us. When presidents do it, it can affect millions for decades to come.

On top of everything I've read about him, his private silence on the invasion of Iraq (the recently released Woodard interviews) in spite of his public support should earn him more disdain than already has been displayed.

Don't feel bad, there's nothing wrong with you. It's a noble ambition to rise above the fray, but don't discount the reasons for it.

[I Have A Dream]

48. I found the following Martin Luther King, Jr. quote that made me think of this thread.

"Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him."

-- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Pathwalker]

49. Beautiful quote, IHAD. Makes perfect sense, too.

Dr. King was a Wise One, one I still miss dearly.

[Pastiche423]

50. Were you an adult when he pardoned Nixon?

Were you an adult when Nixon tore not only our country apart, but families too?

From the days of the Warren Commission to Watergate and finally to the pardoning of Nixon, ford thought only of himself and the elites.

Had he not, we would not be dealing w/bush, rummy and deadeye. They would have been gone from our government and we wouldn't be in this sick world "lead" by depraved men.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[SeattleGirl]

51. I was in my late teens.

I'm not meaning to say I don't understand why people would be angry at Ford; I will admit that some of what people are talking about (Timor, etc.) I was not really aware of. And again, I'm not saying there is no basis for anger at Ford; I was never fond of the fact that he pardoned Nixon.

Maybe what got to me is two-fold: first, not being aware of his every sin, like some people who were posting about him in GD are, and the sense of absolute blind hatred I was picking up from some of those threads and posts, not only against Ford, but against anyone on DU who dared say anything positive about it.

It really knocked me off my pins, to read all that. When I posted the original thoughts I had, I was quite upset; I am rather sensitive to stron emotion; particularly strong negative emotion.

And you are right about the fact that we would not be dealing with bush, rummy, and Cheney; it actually goes even farther back than that, back to when Ford decided he did not want to run as Reagan's running mate. It's been a long, long trail.

[Pastiche423]

52. Maybe what you were picking up

was a accumulation of feelings, not just about Ford, but the whole lot of the neocons that Ford, in great part, allowed to come into power.

The pot has been boiling for over three decades. Since we haven't been able to do anything about those in power now, (or the one that is already dead) the pot boiled over a little when Ford died.

Does that make any sense?

[SeattleGirl]

53. What you are saying DOES make sense.

The "accumulation of feelings", that is. It seems to explain the very high level of anger and negativity I have seen about Ford; perhaps he is just the most convenient object of scorn. My own opinion is that the current Bush is much worse than Nixon OR Ford, but the level of anger directed towrd Ford made it seem like Ford was evil incarnate.

Thanks, Pastiche423.