Fishing for wisdom from this group on intuition,

[DemExpat]

projection, and use of reason.

Off-shoot, if I may, of AZDem's thread on feelings about candidates.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=62131&mesg_id=62131

And Stella's 'subtle' interjection here :-):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=245x62131#62179


The question of how shadow projections and intuitions rule our likes/dislikes, choices and decisions keeps me actively busy consciously and subconsciously day and night lately.

How can one tell the difference in some negative vibes/dislikes we pick up about people being our good intuitions or simply a shadow projection? (And where does reason and intelligence fit in here, if at all, when liking or disliking someone, or making decisions, choices concerning people?)

I have learned to develop and trust my intuition and it has not ever let me down so far, yet I still wonder in the incredible differences in people's perceptions of others!

Differences are most blatant on the world stage in political perceptions IMO, as I know some wonderful people who see a confident, good and trustworthy person in George, W. Bush, for example!

Can an impression of others be a combination of a shadow projection and good use of intuition? Do they feel different? Does intuition always feel 'good' and projection 'bad'?
Or are all impressions we have of the worldly a combo of projection and intuition - making life here such a muddle most of the time!?

Man, if we could truly figure this out for ourselves, personally, huge strides in understanding would be made IMO. Collectively!
Or is this actually impossible in the material world at this time?

If we all have our constant companions of shadow sides as well as varying degrees of developed intuition, what is the art of being able to distinguish between the two at all times and in all situations, with all choices and decisions?

The ideal of working out my shadow side has significantly waned as I get older - just can't get rid of it, through therapy and study, anything!
I'm much more comfortable with myself now, but my friend my shadow is still with me. :D

I know that a lot of you here refer to Astrology for tips and guidance for questions and decisions, but I am at the moment more interested in developing discernment between projection and intuition (and reason) using self-scrutiny and insights from other people asking themselves similar questions.

Anyone else here intrigued with and busy with these questions?

(I must get to bed as it is almost 5 am here, staying up way too late lately....:D)

DemEx

[Coyote_Bandit]

1. I think projection

can sometimes be recognized in repetitative patterns - we reject qualities that we have but do not acknowledge possessing. And we reject those qualities over and over with different people in different circumstances.

For me, deep intuition is often accompanied by sensation in my solar plexis. I physically feel what I sense but often cannot rationally explain. Make sense?

Just my first impression......

[DemExpat]

3. Yeah, thanks, CB,

I just can't seem to discover how a reaction to a man like Obama can be so similar to a reaction to Bush - what do they share mirrored within ourselves?

Cockiness? Inability to know if their confidence and passion, their drive, is the real thing?

All of my impressions of people are felt very strongly in my body, projections can also bring up strong sensations in me - learned that in years of psychotherapy.

Thanks for your first impression!

DemEx

[Celebration]

2. I think TV is a problem

I feel people can trust their intuition a little bit more if they actually meet someone in person. We are so used to seeing acting done on television and the screen, that we actually project that characteristic to candidates that we see on television.

So, it is quite common for people to feel that a politician is "fake", or "not real", because most of what we see on TV actually is fake, and is not real.

In addition to that, I am just sooooo not the politician type that I have to get over that hurdle with anyone. And, face it, the most successful of the politicians are probably the most political. I tend to roll my eyes a lot when I listen to most of them.

I actually like Obama better than most of them. He seems self assured without being cocky. Plus, his wife seems wonderful. I'll probably vote for him Tuesday. I don't think I'll change my mind.

Now as to this question--"Can an impression of others be a combination of a shadow projection and good use of intuition?". Sure. I trust my judgments of people, for some reason. I don't overevaluate or look for hidden meanings. That just works for me. I keep my aura protected, even to the point of staying in a shell. So, I never totally trust someone, but I just generally try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Of course, if I need to, or sometimes even if I don't, I use muscle testing. I trust that. That is just my approach, and it seems to work for me.

[DemExpat]

4. There are some good points here, Itsjustme, thanks.

I feel people can trust their intuition a little bit more if they actually meet someone in person. We are so used to seeing acting done on television and the screen, that we actually project that characteristic to candidates that we see on television.
So, it is quite common for people to feel that a politician is "fake", or "not real", because most of what we see on TV actually is fake, and is not real.

Yes, seeing someone in person definitely gives a better reading, but then even that doesn't account for people's vastly different feelings and intuitions, reactions to others.

Also that "roles" portrayed in the media can also come across as being very real to us, or not, and this reaction to 'performances' varies person to person as well.

In addition to that, I am just sooooo not the politician type that I have to get over that hurdle with anyone. And, face it, the most successful of the politicians are probably the most political. I tend to roll my eyes a lot when I listen to most of them.

Know what you mean here too. I can't imagine being a politican...... :think:

I actually like Obama better than most of them. He seems self assured without being cocky. Plus, his wife seems wonderful. I'll probably vote for him Tuesday. I don't think I'll change my mind.

See, this intrigues me greatly that people can have such digressing impressions of people - that's all I am saying, not that anyone knows for sure who politicians are and what kind of leader in a top position they would be.

Now as to this question--"Can an impression of others be a combination of a shadow projection and good use of intuition?". Sure. I trust my judgments of people, for some reason. I don't overevaluate or look for hidden meanings. That just works for me. I keep my aura protected, even to the point of staying in a shell. So, I never totally trust someone, but I just generally try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Of course, if I need to, or sometimes even if I don't, I use muscle testing. I trust that. That is just my approach, and it seems to work for me.

What I would love to understand is how one person's intuition can be the opposite of someone else's - what does this mean? I trust my intutition too. Does this mean that, for example, a leader is chosen purely on these varying intuitions of people - for how a politician resonates with people and their psychological makeup? With their spiritual makeup? Or purely on projections embodied by these people?
Or that there is no good and evil, right or wrong, as echoed in my years of Zen training in my past?

If this is so, then Democracy and political processes are based on really shaky ground.

Its a fascinating mystery to me.

Edit: Time to pick up the book "Biology of Belief" once again and see if this mystery is touched on in some way there!!!! :D :hi:

DemEx

[Celebration]

8. Intuitions different

There are lots of reasons why one person's intuition differs from another person. I don't know anything about astrology, but one could use that alone and probably figure out why a certain type of person resonates with one person and not another. Numerology might also be able to explain it, or, more conventionally, the person's life experiences, with personality characteristics of the person being matched to others. I know that I picked my children's names because of people I had known in that past who had those names, and whether I had a good feeling about them.

As I have gotten older, I am just more used to different personality types, so I try not to let that impact my intuition. It may make me just a little bit slower to judge someone negatively when there is no obvious reason to do so. I think in the past I may have been too quick to expect others to share my personality characteristics.

We are all supposed to be different though, and various subtle energies come into play as to how those differences are expressed. So, it is not surprising that we all have different takes on people.

More conventionally, I wonder if a lot of the pro Edwards people were just so disappointed in the result that they view Obama as a sort of spoiler for their candidate.

I do see the media being interested in Obama, as a story (and face it, his background makes an incredible story), and that may put off a lot of people. Also, he has more appeal to so called moderates and even Republicans, and that may make some suspicious of him.

[DemExpat]

13. I guess that I STILL have an image, an ideal, of opening consciousness

leading to a more unified world, and when I see that those of us here on DU, and in this Group of rather like-minded/spirited friends especially, having totally different intuitions and feelings about potential leaders, this "ideal" is totally shattered. (in ONE aspect, the democratic process, that is)

If it's not out of our hands because of more powerful elites running the show, it is out of our hands as far as our spirits working together leading to a more unified world. Our spirits cannot even agree, or feel the same, on who would probably make the best leader.

It's OK, I'm getting older and have learned to accept a lot of things that have not gone "my way" :D, but it remains fascinating to me and I still yearn to learn more about it all. About the processes of consciousness behind the scenes.

Still have not reached the stage of "little old lady in the rocking chair contentedly watching the crazy world go by"....Probably never will...:hippie:

DemEx

[Celebration]

18. not very profound, BUT

I think we just need to wait for the general election. I bet we come together then.

;)

[DemExpat]

31. I bet so too, itsjustme.

:pals:

DemEx

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. FWIW

I've had a glimmering of some profound things happening around the time of the election which will turn conventional wisdom of what will happen on its head. I do believe we are entering that new age that has been so widely discussed since my youth--a time when old ways are gone, exploded from the map as it were, and whole new structures and ways of doing things come to pass. For some reason or another, we had to let go of the Edwards (and in my case, Kucinich) ideals for a time, only to have them re-emerge, bigger and brighter, in the near future.

[DemExpat]

30. I get you with the letting go for awhile.

It's just that things seem to have been getting worse for long enough....

I am SO looking forward to new ways of doing things - in so many areas of human (and planetary) life here!

DemEx

[Why Syzygy]

23. lol . I'm there...

. oh I thought it said CRAZY old lady in the rocking chair .. hehe ..

I ended up going in a different direction when I replied below, but your point here is why I started to reply! (there's the rocking chair)

Re: Our Intuitions do not match up
That's sort of what I was talking about, our intuitions are personal to us. I believe many or most of us, have spent a LOT of time trying to find a tap into the Fountain of Truth.

It IS rather interesting that there doesn't seem to be that one area of :truth: out there occupying some time space field or at least in the land of "the best possible outcomes". And if it were there, we would assume we can all tune into the same field? I've had to conclude, there isn't One (of those). I have to conclude that the reason being, because everything IS One. If our intuition yields to spirituality, we eventually have to find this Truth. (YMMV)

My intuition, and experience, tells me, that Hillary or Obama or McCain leading this country is going to be a mixture of things that feel good and things that don't. Some of their decisions are going to be honorable, others will not. Humanity will continue to suffer in ways it suffers now, and most likely, in new ways. Humans will triumph in small and large scale no matter who sits in the White House.

Yesterday I had a thought while doing a drive by Internet thing. Do you do this? I saw a local news item about the Texas flu vaccines having missed the mark for the strains of flu which are breaking out now. I jumped online to do a google news search.
The Bird Flu is here, btw. I found a story about the flu in Dallas, scanned it, then came by this forum and landed on Nolle's thread.

I never get a flu shot. I don't want to start a debate here, but this is just one reason. No one knows what strain is coming. So many people I know and listen to, I can't name just one, and I build resistance to flu in alternate ways. Some of it is belief and some is lifestyle, what we eat and drink, etc. You know. The thing is, I do not prepare to be vulnerable to a flu. Getting the shot is very much focused on RESISTANCE, which is futile. ;)

Anyway, it occurred to me, that there must be many people who treat the financial flu the same way. They don't prepare to be vulnerable. I'm sure not as familiar with that tactic, but I might be able to learn how, and meantime I can start by not buying into the BIRD FLU IS HERE!!!

So. What does it matter, really, that our intuitions vary? When there is only one tiny truth?

[Celebration]

27. Flu shots

I have had only one in my life and that is a strange story by itself. I bet some people think your flu shot analogy is entirely off the wall so to speak, but I completely get it. I can't explain it any better than you so I won't attempt it.

I have to say that your intuition and my intuition are entirely in synch. Maybe there is hope after all.

My intuition, and experience, tells me, that Hillary or Obama or McCain leading this country is going to be a mixture of things that feel good and things that don't. Some of their decisions are going to be honorable, others will not. Humanity will continue to suffer in ways it suffers now, and most likely, in new ways. Humans will triumph in small and large scale no matter who sits in the White House.

[DemExpat]

32. I'm with you on the flu shots, votesomemore......but I'll have to google

"flu in Dallas" as I will be visiting the city for about a week end of February....!!!!
I'll take your advice and not prepare myself to be vulnerable to it there...:D

Anyway, it occurred to me, that there must be many people who treat the financial flu the same way. They don't prepare to be vulnerable. I'm sure not as familiar with that tactic, but I might be able to learn how, and meantime I can start by not buying into the BIRD FLU IS HERE!!!

This is great, my father was a person who tried to prepare for all disasters - healthwise and financially. He protected his retirement money so well that he and my Mom never did fun things like travel a lot to visit their children living all over the US and in Europe....my Mom died suddenly and Dad followed her 2 years later. Left a little money for their 5 kids as a result of his being prepared, but...what a tragic waste of opportunity for wonderful experiences.

I think it is a fine art to be able to not constantly prepare oneself for disaster mentally while taking care of ourselves well physically!

That's sort of what I was talking about, our intuitions are personal to us. I believe many or most of us, have spent a LOT of time trying to find a tap into the Fountain of Truth.

Yep, this is what I mean by being busy with these questions almost constantly....:think: :banghead:

It IS rather interesting that there doesn't seem to be that one area of :truth: out there occupying some time space field or at least in the land of "the best possible outcomes". And if it were there, we would assume we can all tune into the same field? I've had to conclude, there isn't One (of those). I have to conclude that the reason being, because everything IS One. If our intuition yields to spirituality, we eventually have to find this Truth. (YMMV)

This is great, votesomemore, this speaks clearly to me! Hits the nail on the head: If we tune in with the universal (truth) with our intuition, why isn't it the SAME for all of us???????
Sometimes I see that everything IS one, the Yin/Yang unity of opposites, etc., but in daily life situations this gets very muddled.

The clue I guess is to rise above the surface more often than I do now to get that birdseye view of the world, humanity and our spiritual origin and destination.

Going into myself very deeply I have done pretty much thoroughly in this life - now's the time to fly above it all and scan the scenery! Thanks for your experiences.

My intuition, and experience, tells me, that Hillary or Obama or McCain leading this country is going to be a mixture of things that feel good and things that don't. Some of their decisions are going to be honorable, others will not. Humanity will continue to suffer in ways it suffers now, and most likely, in new ways. Humans will triumph in small and large scale no matter who sits in the White House.

I certainly agree with you here, and am not so idealistic or in a way naive to think that one candidate would be the answer and that's that!

So this whole discussion here, which I am very thankful for, everybody, is showing me that getting very involved with candidates - pro and con - is probably not solely an intuitive 'action', but one shaded with all other kinds of issues and feelings playing in our experiences of the political scene and our hopes (and fears) for the world.

Agree?????:-)

DemEx

[stellanoir]

5. Well we are all ONE

though I was admittedly being a bit snarky.

Mea culpa.

For a long time I've been incredibly mindful of what imbalance is within each and every one of us that brought us to a place of having such horrendous "misleadership."

I just have thought for a long time that the hatred that's spewed around is so-o-o counter productive.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3569357

More recently I've been thinking about this stuff . . .

Since Arabic languages are far more multi leveled and somewhat more poetic than Greek, Latin, and English, I've long been intrigued by the scholars who are fluent in Hebrew and Aramaic who translate the verses directly into English.

The etymology they present is really quite fascinating.

The Aramaic root of the word "enemies" is a "tangled knot."

The Aramaic root of the word "evil" means "unripe."

That suggests something that requires more sunlight (aka consciousness), nourishment, water (aka emotional support), and time (patience), though I've heard no one else elucidate it as such, but most metaphysicians don't live on farms. That perspective sure beats all the tiresomely unenlightened dualistic shadow projection that is bandied about so much these days.

"Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth" translated directly becomes "Blessed are those who soften their hearts (emotional rigidity) because they are open to the full powers of nature."

"Love thine enemies" was translated by Neal Douglas-Klotz. http://www.abwoon.com/ He was a guest on the visionary activist show recently. http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=24231 It's well worth a listen.

The host is a colleague of mine and she described his interpretation as "a vast instruction manual of great mystery."

"Love thine enemies" = "Love your enemies. From a hidden place, unite with your enemies from the inside. Fill the inner void. That makes them swell outwardly and fall out of rhythm, instead of progressing step by step. They stop and start harshly out of time. Bring yourself back into rhythm within. Find the moment that meets with theirs', like two lovers creating life from the dust. Do this work in secret. This kind of love creates. It does not emote."

How this information relates to intuition, projection, reclamation of old aspects of self, and forgiveness is most intriguing.

All of that was sorta the source of that snark.

[DemExpat]

14. That is very interesting, stellanoir.

I will definitely look more into Douglas-Klotz translations and listen to the link.

I grew up with "the meek will inherit the earth", and "Love your enemy" Bibilcal teachings, but rejected it along with all the other religious training I received.

This exercise of loving 'them' in secret to avoid the emotion and create only the power from love, is intriguing. Something to explore further.

I didn't take your comment in that thread as a snark, it was a jolt of energy (which I felt intensely) pointing to the more essential issue in the discussion! Thanks.

DemEx

[stellanoir]

28. Yeah I too rejected all of the King James claptrap when I was quite young.

That's way I find the multilayered richer translations so completely profound.

I mean the "blessed are the meek" is like saying "shut up, bend over, don't complain, and sooner or later you'll get yours." Whereas the deeper translation is about self empowerment through direct contact with nature (aka the living spirit.)

The author of this book

http://www.cosmosandpsyche.com/ (I have it but have yet to read it but I learned of him on the visionary activist show as well)

said (paraphrasing) "the sickness of our culture finds its root in the fact that we have severed our direct contact with spirit."

I believe that to be entirely true.

As to the intuition versus projection issue, I truly feel it is a process. One receives an impression, perhaps needs to reflect upon that impression
before reacting to see what aspect of themselves (perhaps karmic) is being reflected. Self forgiveness is of course key in this incredibly delicate process.

Thank you for starting this incredibly thoughtful thread even if it was inspired by snark. LOL

[DemExpat]

33. I rejected the church at 13 after about 5 years of passionate immersion.

Whereas the deeper translation is about self empowerment through direct contact with nature (aka the living spirit.)

Yes, this is how I now interpret the inheritance of the earth by the meek - direct contact with spirit and also not adding to the Ego power games.

...... said (paraphrasing) "the sickness of our culture finds its root in the fact that we have severed our direct contact with spirit."

So very true, and a truth I have known for a very long time.
I am so appalled with how humans in general treat animals (and plant life i.e. GM crops, etc.)

for this reason - a tragedy for all - mankind and animal/plant kingdoms as well as individual animal suffering - to be so utterly cut off from the spirit running through us all!
I am a crazy animal lover!!!!!!


As to the intuition versus projection issue, I truly feel it is a process. One receives an impression, perhaps needs to reflect upon that impression
before reacting to see what aspect of themselves (perhaps karmic) is being reflected. Self forgiveness is of course key in this incredibly delicate process.

It IS a delicate process, stellanoir, thanks so much for your thoughts and ideas here.

Thank you for starting this incredibly thoughtful thread even if it was inspired by snark. LOL

Thanks for the spark, dear, lovely of you!

DemEx

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. If you ever have a chance, go see Neil Douglas-Klotz

He is the co-founder of the Center for the Dances of Universal Peace and leads the Dances, especially those based on his own work. I know him as Saadi, as he is a Sufi brother, and now Murshid (senior teacher), but a very down to earth fellow who is very curious about getting to the heart of the matter of things and how the world works. A scholar, but very approachable and with little or no ego involvement.

[NMDemDist2]

6. as I was reading this thread, the ?thought? that popped in and wouldn't leave was

'soul families'

I wonder if some of that intuitive force is recognizing a member of your soul family or not a member

since we are all here for different tasks, if you meet someone who is here for an entirely different (but still valid of course) task to complete than yours, I wonder if that may be part of the roots of the feelings

just musing here

and I'm sorry I posted that thread, I think I'll ask the mods to lock it. But I really can't 'see' Obama, it truly is like looking through a glass darkly. I want to be happy and enthused about our candidate but am truly having trouble doing so in his case.

:shrug:

[stellanoir]

7. "soul families"

Some describe that phenomenon as having a shared oversoul.

[DemExpat]

15. Could be, AZDem, I have thought of soul groups too.

it's just that on the world political stage the US has had such power and influence that it seems so important spiritually to get it right somehow. Whose vision of getting it right is the "true" one, if this exists at all?

It also shows me more how most activity on this plane is muddled at best, and just part of the theater of learning, with all of the suffering as well as joy - activity something humans have very little control of.

I am very concerned living here in Europe of how leftist governments have allowed immigrants of the Islamic faith - here many religiously conservative - to start demanding changes in our society that potentially seriously limit freedoms, choices and separation of church and state if things continue along the current path. Destruction of liberal democracies from the inside - that sort of vision.....

Then I wonder if even our relatively open, free and prosperous democratic societies have only been a tiny blip in world history that will not prevail. Very scary thoughts and feelings (mostly with my children and theirs in mind, as well as my ideal vision of a unified - and free - world)

I have decided to withdraw my feelings from this election at this time and see how it all plays out from a more detached position. But I do share your views, reactions and feelings on the 2 candidates at this time.

DemEx

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. oh, I know that is true

Soul families, or beings sharing the same oversoul. Yes, this happens, and it is very interesting, as you share dreams and communicate in telepathic ways that are very natural and spontaneous.

[Why Syzygy]

9. DemEx ..

I think about that a lot lately too. I attribute it to my age bracket.

I have a new realization that the belief patterns I functioned with as truth for many years, is more of an illusion, and that I lacked a lot of vision or insightful-ness during many stages of my life.

If we define intuition as being "true" for all people all the time, then I don't go along with the definition. If we refer to the inner voice, which tells us what is true for us, I think we come closer to understanding.

That's why I believe that we receive no intuition that does not pass through our personal veils of *reality*, including projections, shadow and otherwise. Depending on many circumstances and an infinite array of past energies, my intuition may or may not match up with yours.

I happen to believe it it impossible to observe ANYTHING without using the tool of projection. Everything pleasant and "good, as well as everything unpleasant and "bad" requires the skills of projecting my inner ideals and beliefs onto the situation to make a determination/judgment.

What I love about Zen meditation is that all discrimination, judgment, determinations cease to exist.
OTOH, as a human, I do enjoy those activities. The whole of creation has the ability to determine what will heal and what will harm. Even in the animal kingdom, their past experiences greatly color how they view and react to the world.

I'm finding I learning to enjoy watching my shadow jump in and start it's crap. It gives me something to muse about.

[I Have A Dream]

10. One of the most interesting things I've ever read here...

"I'm finding I'm learning to enjoy watching my shadow jump in and start its crap."

Now that's self-awareness. :)

[DemExpat]

16. Thanks for your response, votesomemore.

That's why I believe that we receive no intuition that does not pass through our personal veils of *reality*, including projections, shadow and otherwise. Depending on many circumstances and an infinite array of past energies, my intuition may or may not match up with yours.
I happen to believe it it impossible to observe ANYTHING without using the tool of projection. Everything pleasant and "good, as well as everything unpleasant and "bad" requires the skills of projecting my inner ideals and beliefs onto the situation to make a determination/judgment.

I tend to agree with your experience here.

What I love about Zen meditation is that all discrimination, judgment, determinations cease to exist.

Incredibly valuable learning here, I agree. This practice is the only one I found that taught me this so clearly.

OTOH, as a human, I do enjoy those activities. The whole of creation has the ability to determine what will heal and what will harm. Even in the animal kingdom, their past experiences greatly color how they view and react to the world.
I'm finding I learning to enjoy watching my shadow jump in and start it's crap. It gives me something to muse about.

I find these activities interesting and enjoyable too - most of the time, that is.....:silly:
Also, I have made my shadow my friend too in this life - certainly don't deny him/her. I just try to keep it from having too much say. :D
Learning to deal with crippling anxiety/panic disorder gave me this wonderful opportunity to face my shadow, stare it down, and then welcome it in!!!!
What a life!!!!!

DemEx

[rumpel]

11. very interesting discussion

I too have been pondering in general, and am in fact re-reading a book on Parapsychology, which was published in '91. While it is seriously outdated, as many discoveries and new theories have entered the scene since. In terms of "what we call intuition, psychic impressions, or clairvoyance, scientists separated this into categories. At the Rhine Institute they have ruled out most of this "knowing" as a sudden logical insight, if you will. Which is, that we actually have the information(s) to reach a conclusion, but like pieces of a puzzle they are stored away - but suddenly fall into place. This can probably be something we read or heard or experienced, while even distracted. It is said, that whatever we see, hear or experience, the brain memorizes, whether we consciously acknowledge it or not. So, a plausible explanation.
They said then, the really interesting cases are those, where there is absolutely no way, that the subject had access to the information.

We now generally know and accept that we are energy, vibrating at whatever level. I observe our pets react to certain people or other animals either positively or negatively from the first instance. There seem to be no apparent reason for this reaction. Likewise, we experience our first impression of people. In a sense it is "judging", which I think many of us are trying to not do. Could it be that "instinct" or "intuition" has something to do with our vibrational field, a field, which according to Sheldrake's theory has an imprint of past lives, generational, cultural and historic information. Is it possible then, that in some past lives we crossed paths? Or could it just be a faint recognition of something like "been there done that" on the unconscious level?

Likewise, in our own individual evolution our vibration may not be compatible with certain others, for whatever reason. Love at first sight - regardless of whether it lasts, it seems the vibration of that particular person seem to make us feel great at that moment in time. I think our vibrations probably change and fluctuate from moment to moment as we perhaps try to reconcile the vibration of our souls and our 3D existence. I have learned that we influence each other also through this vibration, in the micro as well as the macrocosm. Hence, Sheldrake's theory of a generational, cultural and societal imprint is very plausible.
It is also true, that we pick up energies, that are negative or positive, which affect our own. We pick up anger, frustration, ambition, greed, and on the other side of the scale happiness and love.

What is really interesting at this time, is that we may really be experiencing as a collective "vibration", is truly an indication of a great many of us separating from the "old". And I think this "old" could be that generational, societal imprint, which is not serving for the benefit for all, we are trying to let go. But since we are only beginning, we go back and forth, we are not yet strong enough to vibrate closer to our true soul level all the time.

When I think about Michael Newton's work, I could also imagine, that maybe this "intuition" has something to do with the possibilities we "screened" during the LBL (life between lives) before we reincarnated, and therefore each of us have a specific experience we intent in this life time. In which case we vaguely remember the choices of experiences including people, and maybe therein lies the difference of impression.

For me, I think it is about trying to vibrate as best I can, according to whatever level I am, and there is supposedly no right or wrong. Intuition I also think comes from the soul level, and even if, as the parapsych researchers dismissed some of those as a "sudden" puzzle-pieces-of-underlying-knowledge-coming-together, the strong feeling that comes with it is indicative of a red or green flag coming from somewhere deep within.

As for both remaining candidates they do not resonate with me, as I feel they are in this dense soup of the "old" and not truly vibrating at a level they could be. Both carry a facade and I see a danger that they will be pulled further into the dense soup.

But one thing important to note is that we have kind of awakened from the state of historical and generational passive existence to a state of active co-creation. Perhaps it is up to each and one of us to create balance and harmony with our individual intuitions. A kind of checks and balances.:shrug:

:)

[NMDemDist2]

12. great post rumpel!

:yourock:

[DemExpat]

17. Thanks so much, rumpel,

I need more time to ponder your post to create a response, as you touch on some of my deeper questions and thoughts about all of this.

Thanks!

DemEx

[rumpel]

24. A few days ago IONS newsletter contained this link

http://www.shiftinaction.com/node/5949

I have yet to explore his site, too. It may be quite interesting:

http://www.vonward.com/

Wow - adding:

This is interesting

Return Of The Revolutionaries

http://www.johnadams.net/

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Personally, I've found that going into the breath

can help me filter intuition from other factors. Besides shadow projections, you have impressions left on the land where you are standing, which can really effect interactions there. Sometimes I think our intuition says "yes" while to others the same situation says "no" because we have lessons to learn. I also know that intuition will very strongly tell you "no" when you don't need to do something, but it will allow you to go ahead and make mistakes.

[rumpel]

25. making mistakes

"allow you to make mistakes" :) love that

[DemExpat]

34. Yes, Breath is extremely important for things other than oxygen and CO2 exchange.

I will try to remember to use it also as a filter in this way, ayeshahaqiqqa, when I start to doubt what I think is driving me.

I also know that intuition will very strongly tell you "no" when you don't need to do something, but it will allow you to go ahead and make mistakes.

Had to re-read this sentence a coule of times! :rofl:
So is it intuition allowing you to go ahead and make that mistake, or one's ego refusing to heed the advice??????

I didn't really start tapping into my intuition until AFTER I had spent quite a few crazy, empty and self-destructive years making only mistakes and not following any "real" path.
Since then I follow my intuition and it has never lead me to a mistake yet! :D
It is wonderful and the only real "security" I have in my life at this time. I only start feeling crazy again sometimes when I do not take the care to listen.

Thanks for your views and experiences here,

DemEx

[LaurenG]

26. Intuition is a funny thing, you never know what your going to get. : )

I have always said that it's very important to be balanced when asking for information from the intuition. I know that I can read people best when there is not much activity around and when I am in a calm state. However, I used to get daily information when my daughter was extremely mentally ill. I would get to know if the day would be good or bad before she ever woke up in the morning and I'd know things when she was acting out, I think the trauma actually forced me to check in clearly and quickly.

Everyone gets information in their own way; there are seer's, hearer's, feelers, (both emotional and tactile) smeller's, taster's and knower's. (These are well known by their proper names, clairaudient, clairvoyant, clairsentience, clairalience, claircognizance, clairgustance etc.)

The best way to use intuition is to go with your specific personality type. I was born a knower. I just knew all kinds of things and I thought, (still think) that all of us have that, some of us just ignore it and get on with being alive and participating in life.

There is a simple exercise that can be helpful to some people.

Start out by using your protective mantra, whatever it is. Get into a meditative state, use the breath to really reach up and open up. Visualize a pillar of light in what ever size you can imagine and see it going straight through your spinal column, out the top of the head, connecting to spirit and going deep into the earth. After you have this connected and open, ask a question and then wait for the answer. At first you may get interference or strange answers but however it works for you, listen to the first thing you get, the very first thing, and try not to judge it or yourself. This may take practice and allowing yourself to just get silly answers but it is a good exercise, no matter what stage of the game we are.

:hug:

[rumpel]

29. along those lines

I just finished reading the article "Subtle Energy in Human Senses and Powers"
http://www.vonward.com/art27.html

and "WHENCE HUMAN KNOWLEDGE?"

snip
Writers, scientists, and inventors must clearly articulate and place their "knowledge" in the public domain. When it appears, they frequently discover the ideas were not unique to themselves. Innumerable cases document separate but simultaneous scientific discoveries or inventions, without prior communication between the parties. Writing a periodic column in advance, frequently I used to feel chagrined when "my point" surfaced in another's story before mine. Now I realize we do not steal each other's ideas; we both, somehow, tap the same universal source.

Let's review some of the many ways humans come to have knowledge? Obviously, we do receive much information through our physical senses. However, basic scientific principles, and even whole fields of knowledge, apparently come from sources outside the awake, five-sense state.

We have flashes of intuition, where an idea, picture, or concept springs full blown into awareness. Albert Einstein (daydream in a tram leads to theory of relativity), Nikola Tesla (design for AC motor comes in unbidden flash), James Watson (ruminating on borrowed ideas leads to view of DNA form as double helix), and many others less well known have reported such moments of inspiration. They obviously received valid knowledge because it proved itself in the subsequent testing.

Practical problem solving through dreaming is now a well-known and widely practiced procedure. Group brainstorming can get workable results, new solutions never previously considered by any of the participants. Controlled meditation uncovers unique and valid knowledge (e.g., health diagnoses). Going into a trance enables one to channel usable knowledge from sources outside the person (e.g., history or remote information).

One can access these general fields of knowledge by conscious choice or simply being in a state of relaxation or openness. Shamans, psychics, or healers deliberately seek information from inner sources. Described in Jeremy Narby's wonderful book The Cosmic Serpent, Amazon-area shamans using a hallucinogen can obtain pharmacological and DNA knowledge about plants from the noumenal field. Psychics search people's energy fields to discern alternate life choices. These areas of knowledge appear to be available to any seeker.

http://www.vonward.com/art13.html

[DemExpat]

36. Gosh, my lists and stacks of book are growing!!!!

Endless stuff to look into, really!

:D

DemEx

[DemExpat]

35. Thanks, OhioBlues,

I have "really special" intuitive power with my 2 kids and my pets as well...my sisters, some good friends....

Are you talking about personality types as in Jung-based Myers-Briggs types? I am an INFJ - introvert, intuitive, feeling and judging, and I feel my intuition and empathy powers are my strongest. I tend to be quickly judgemental too - sometimes good, sometimes need to watch this! :D

Thanks for the exercise - I'll print this out and place by my bed.

DemEx

[Celebration]

37. Power vs. Force

This is a book by David Hawkins that you might find interesting. He thought that people, emotions, ideas, countries, events, etc. could be "calibrated" as to the "level of consciousness." So, 800 is the highest level of consciousness, and 0 the lowest. Supposedly the average American level of consciousness is 200. Jesus Christ is 700+. This is all kind of set in stone, too. Well, how do you do the calibrations, you ask? Muscle testing. That's right, muscle testing. This is one weird book. The guy is a psychiatrist and brilliant, but slightly nuts, IMHO. But he would go for the idea that everyone should be able to muscle test and get the same "L of C" for everything.

There were some extremely interesting ideas in this book, and I particularly liked the parts about emotions. But about every third page I just wanted to rip the book up into shreds. Why? Well, Hawkins and I have different value systems, and different ways of looking at the world. Do I think that he was letting this color his calibrations? You betcha, I do. But he would claim otherwise. The really annoying thing is that he calibrated every single darn page of his book. And, of course, all of it calibrated highly.

He had some parts of the book about how war is always wrong. I actually gave the book to someone so I can't quote it exactly. Well, the Iraq War comes along and he starts giving justifications for it. So, what the...............???? Here his statement that war is always wrong was calibrated highly, and then he turns around and makes excuses for the war.

What I am saying is that he was a huge proponent that there is a field that we can all tap into, and make various judgments, and that these judgments will be the same. But in my opinion, he was unable to apply this in a way that was consistent, and instead let the logical part of his brain insert itself. It was easy for me to see because he and I just think differently. But he has a lot of followers that believe every single word he says.

Funny that Al Gore and George Bush during the election calibrated at exactly the same level. LOL. How convenient. It was some off the wall number like 424 or something. Sheesh.

I'm not saying he is not brilliant. He is brilliant, but I don't really buy into this whole thing.

[vanboggie]

38. I dunno, but I'm finding this universal intuition

...amongst my Dem family and friends, and that worries me even more. Even people close to me who are not normally that intuitive are expressing a distrust of Obama. A sister in law who is very up on politics and a hardcore, lifelong Dem says she'll vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee. A daughter in law in another state calls and worries about who to vote for without Edwards because she WILL not vote for Obama. She admits she doesn't know why, but he scares her. I don't know what it is, but a lot of people in my circle who I would not expect to are picking up on something. I trust my own intuition, but it has been validated in a major way with the input of those I know.

[Dover]

39. Just found this and thought it might be relevant

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/AnthroIntro/19240202p01.html

Lecture V

LOVE, INTUITION AND THE HUMAN
EGO


An excerpt:

When, with developed consciousness, we attain the picture stage — ‘imagination’ — we perceive the etheric as weaving pictures. When we perceive the astral, we hear the music of the spheres which sounds towards us or, we might say, from out of ourselves. (For our own astral body leads us back to our pre-earthly life.) And when we advance farther to the form of cognition that attains the highest degree of love — when the power of love becomes a cognitive force — when, to begin with, we see our own existence flowing from a former life on earth into this present life, we feel this former life in the normal differentiation of the ‘warmth-organism’ in which we are living. This is real intuition. We live in this. And when some impulse arises in us to do this or that, it does not only work, as in the astral body, out of the spiritual world, but from still farther back — from our former life on earth. Our former life on earth works into the warmth of our organism, and kindles this or that impulse. Thus we see in the earthly, solid man the physical body, in the fluid man the etheric body, in the airy man the astral body, and in the warmth clement the ego proper. (The ego of the present incarnation is never complete; it is always developing.) It is the ego of the former life on earth, working in subconscious depths, that is the ego proper. And when you perceive a man clairvoyantly you are led to say: lie is standing here and I see him, to begin with, with my external senses. But I also see what is etheric and what is astral; then, behind him, the man he was in his previous incarnation.

In fact, the more this consciousness is developed, the more clearly do we see, in a kind of perspective, the head of his last incarnation a little above the head of his present incarnation, and, some-what higher still, the head of his second last incarnation. In civilisations in which there was still a kind of instinctive consciousness of these things, you will fmd pictures which show, behind the clearly drawn countenance of the present incarnation, a second countenance less clearly painted; behind this a third that is still less clear. There are Egyptian pictures like this. You understand such pictures if you are able to perceive, behind the present man, the man he was in his last and second last incarnations. Not until one can extend man's life in time to include previous incarnations can one really speak of the ego as the fourth member of human nature.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Also a book R. Steiner wrote called, Intuitive Thinking As A Spiritual Path

http://www.amazon.com/Intuitive-Thinking-Spiritual-Path-Anthroposophy/dp/088010385X/ref=pd_sim_b_title_3

[rumpel]

40. I can envision looking into a 3 pane mirror...

when I read this description. Which, btw, always fascinated me as a child, too...so many me's ;)

thanks for the links