A tarot experiment

[Dover]

I wonder if all the tarot people might consider a little experiment.
Could we each do a Celtic Cross layout focused on the near future?
I'm curious if any patterns will stand out in common.

I did it and while I don't know how much is personal and how much impersonal,
it certainly is alarming...albeit ultimately cathartic and positive in the end.

I know astrologically we are heading into some rough waters as well.

Here's my layout:

http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=718998&Date=2%2F12%2F2008&Name=Anonymous&Query=&Deck=rider_waite&Reading=celtic_cross

[Sanity Claws]

1. I'd be glad to participate in your experiment

but be warned - my talents are quite limited. Could you tell us about the link? Did that site do the reading? Or did you do the reading with cards and that site allowed you to set up a spread like that?

[Dover]

2. That site lays out the cards for you based on your question.

I've grown comfortable with online instant tarot layouts and use it as a sort of conversation medium with my guides.
But if you or others prefer using your own cards then just let us know what the position is for each card. I know these can vary. For instance some read the 5th card as the past, while others read it as future. So just indicate which each position is for you. Thanks for participating. Ought to be interesting!

[stellanoir]

3. Well on the upside

the Magician, the Ace of Pentacles, and the Sun are all encouraging and sort of trump some of the more oppressive swords and rods.

It kind of suggests a clearing and release of extraneous stuff and a rebirth of sorts.

Do you have some Uranian activity coming up with the placement of the Tower?

Have you noticed how Saturn will oppose Uranus on election day morning? It's uncanny really.

I might throw a spread in a while. Doesn't feel appropriate to do so right now.

Pluto is on my Saturn. Yikes.

[Dover]

4. Morning Stella!

No...I don't have any difficult or compelling transits in the near future. I've got a difficult Jupiter/Neptune transit ending soon but that's as extreme as it gets. And that's why I was a bit alarmed at the layout. Looked very Uranian and 'unexpected'. If it's purely personal then I agree with your assessment and look forward to it. I've certainly been working on clearing. It felt to me that some sudden difficult or negative situation might have hidden within it an opportunity for me to step in and perhaps offer something new.

[Dover]

5. Pluto on your Saturn?!

Wow...talk about transformation. Any thoughts about its affects so far?

And yes I was aware of the Saturn/Uranus position on election day (mentioned it in some other thread). Another "memorable" election day.

[stellanoir]

6. Maybe the Tower has more to do with the collective stuff because it certainly

feels as though something is hovering. Still the Tower can be revelatory and enlightening like the veritable "light bulb" going on over one's crown for sure.

Jupiter Neptune combos can be curative and inspiring sometimes.

Saturn will be on my Pluto again really soon as well so it's a bit of a double whammy.

I'm trying to overhaul my yurt and get going on a piece of writing I started about fifteen years ago which feels redemptive but all sorts of baloney got me stuck with it.

Feels as though it might be finally freeing up. Phew.

The process is intense though. Thank goodness the geeks reclassified Pluto as a dwarf planet or it might be moreso. LOL

[Dover]

7. You have a YURT?!!! How wonderful!

Do you live in it, or use it like an office/studio or what?

A double whammy of saturn/pluto....that's a whole lot of transformation. Forget the yurt. I'll bet you can move mountains!

Good luck with the writing too. That sounds intriguing.

[stellanoir]

8. No that's just what I call my place because there is no southern exposure

and that's what I want to change. I'm hoping to put a geodesic dome over in the blueberry field while the renovations take place.

That's my fantasy anyhoo.

[Sanity Claws]

9. Pluto on your Saturn

That sounds really difficult, like all the structures in your life are being transformed.
I have Pluto on my moon and it has involved a lot of transformation. It has not been easy.

[Why Syzygy]

10. I would like to join.

I'll have to throw later as I'm on the fly.

Your reading gave me a literal thrill. I love it! Most of the swords and wands are already past or coming to pass. The Tower depends entirely on how you react to it. The effects will have long lasting repercussions. There's a bit of illusion left. Maybe you/we need a little. I hope not. Oh.. the reading says the Cups Seven can also bring transcendental understanding. That makes more sense with the Sun outcome. It is a very hopeful reading. Sometimes nothing but the Tower can shake us enough. But recall what lives in the Tower. According to Mythic Tarot, it is the Minotaur, the shame of Minos, King of Crete. He was a hidden secret. Poseidon rose from the waters to topple, expose, and rectify all the wrongs represented by the Minotaur in hiding. Do you know which planet is associated with Poseidon?

[stellanoir]

11. Neptune

Thanks for reminding me about the Mythic Tarot deck.

I've not used that one in ages.

[Dover]

13. Well, when you put it that way........ it IS kinda thrilling..lol!

Thanks for that uplifting interpretation.
Yes, some illusions yet to be peeled away. I too have forgotten about the Mythic Tarot deck. Gonna have to get my book out and refresh. One epiphany I recall about the study of Neptune and our dualistic vs. non dualistic reality is that Neptune is not the illusion itself but is the veil of our illusions. I think our illusions are more tied to Saturn and a dualistic physical/senses world of perception. So when we had that long Neptune/Saturn transit the last couple of years it was the Saturnian reality which took the beating when Neptune's veil came down. And in my own spiritual explorations I have felt the cleaning out I've been doing has put me on the cusp of some important revelations. Interesting that the apocalyptic books of the Bible, what some call the "end times" are called Revelations. Perhaps the end OF time might be more accurate. The revelations are what is left when we get stripped of our illusions, our pain, our guilt, our attachments, etc. and open our hearts to a new kind of seeing.

And Pluto's passage through Cap will reveal our true soul's purpose within the emerging truth found in the destruction of those Saturnian (Cap) trappings.

I'm wondering if the Male Swordsman at the center represents an aspect of myself (masculine mind/intellect) or a projected form...a male person in my life, air sign type. To me, that and the swords above and below (the conscious and subconsious) are of the mind and the tricks the mind will play to avoid losing its sway over my life and dualistic reality.
The trickster Magician crossing that male figure sort of reinforces that for me.

Thanks for that interpretation...it's got me taking the reading to a deeper level.

[Cleita]

12. Sure Dover.

I'll try it sometime today when I'm feeling more able to concentrate and I'll put up the results and my interpretation.

[davsand]

14. Your reading seems directed at current events.

I had just been reading in LBN--some sotry about the "looming financial crash" and I came here to get away from panic mode. THEN I look at your Tarot reading, and about fell out of my chair. If you take that as a US-centric reading it pretty well lays out the fact that nationall,y we have got to gear down the arrogance and greed. Wow.

As you requested, I did a quick read there at Facade, just to see what I came up with. There seems to be an awful lot of my personal stuff intruding in that reading, so I'm not sure you will gain much from seeing it. Anyhow, as you requested here is a spread I just got:


http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=681378&Date=2%2F12%2F2008&Name=Anonymous&Query=&Deck=palladini&Reading=celtic_cross


Regards, and this was a neat idea!


Laura

[Sanity Claws]

15. Here's mine

http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=706896&Date=2%2F12%2F2008&Name=Anonymous&Query=What+will+the+near+future+for+the+US+be+like%3F&Deck=renaissance&Reading=celtic_cross&Reverse=on

I'll let you decide how much it coincides with your reading and what we already know.

[Cleita]

16. Boy this one isn't very good.

I might interpret the Queen of Swords and King of Pentacles as being the contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The reverse two of swords that crowns them cautions towards making the wrong decision. The future shows the contest being fought. The reverse cards don't bode well and the ten of swords as the final card points to me to a victory that isn't satisfying for the winner and devastating to the loser. I really didn't like this throw.

[Cleita]

27. Hey Dover! I forget to reverse the two of swords on my graphic

which is how it fell on the actual throw.

[Dover]

28. Okay Cleita, I'll change it...thanks...n/t

[Delphinus]

17. Here's mine ...

I don't like Rider Waite (and didn't see mine) so used the Aquatic deck (seemed like fun).

http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=239482&Date=2%2F12%2F2008&Name=Anonymous&Query=What+does+the+near+future+hold%3F&Deck=aquatic&Reading=celtic_cross&Reverse=on

The first card didn't come out too well, but based on what you were curious about, guess it doesn't seem too off-kilter.

The card not shown but at the center of the cross, represents the atmosphere surrounding the central issue. Page of Pentacles, when reversed: The dark essence of earth, such as a chasm: Unfavorable news about business, finance, or the physical world. One who delights in all forms of luxury and physical excess, leaving practical matters unattended. Irrationality and failure to recognize obvious facts, coupled with a poor work ethic. Wastefulness, lack of focus, and loss. May portend the loss of a job or promotion.

The last card seems positive, though.

[PinkTiger]

18. OK, here's mine:

I saved it by posting it so I wouldn't lose it. I'm using a borrowed laptop at the moment and I keep losing my text, so the editing is actually the finishing, so to speak.

I'm using the Universal Waite Deck.
We begin with the Knight of Wands, inverted, crossed by the 10 of wands. The Ace of wands is below, the Hierophant is to the left, and on top is Justice. Temperance is on the right. On the bottom of the four cards on the far right is the three of Swords, inverted. The Queen of Swords inverted is above that, followed the by Hermit, inverted, and finally the three of wands as the outcome.

Here's my interpretation:

My query was the near future for all of us.
Four of the cards are Wands. Two are Swords. Four are of the major arcana. Five are inverted.
Let's begin with the Wands. Wands symbolize fertility and fecundity, and wishes, hopes and dreams. Wands also represent miracles, or the desire of a miracle. I take this to mean that politically, a lot of people are wishin' and hopin', and are galvanized like never before in our lifetimes, politically. The Hermit and the Hierophant also hold wands, so we can actually say there are six wands in the spread. Swords represent power and decisions made by heads of state and bosses. Swords also represent law and lawmakers, and because Justice appears in this spread, we can add it to the swords, to make three.
Numbers: The number three comes up twice; one comes up once, followed by 10, also once.
Because three comes up twice, it is significant. Three is an important number. It can be seen as magical (the Holy Trinity, for example) or as an undesired number (Three on a Match) because it symbolizes incompleteness. In the Tarot, it also symbolizes growth and expansion because it begs for a fourth to finish a set. But it can also mean three days, weeks, months or years. I think it means three months in this spread.

Now lets go to the spread, where the cards are, and interpret the meanings of that.

The knight of wands begin the reading, and is inverted. As everyone knows, Knights symbolize th coming and going of a matter in Tarot readings, but here it stands for the querent. So it means the power is going from one entity to another, as Wands mean power; it also means the wishes and hopes of others are stirring about, and on the move. The Knight of Wands is a young impetuous man who lacks experience. He needs to mature before he will be ready to move on.

Crossing the Querent Knight is the 10 of wands. We have the worker carrying a load of 10 wands toward a village. He is weighed down with the wands, but he resolutely carries them toward the goal. The symbolism is clear: hard work lies ahead, but without the work the results won't come.

Below this is the Ace of Wands. Above it is Justice. Justice is the background. Scales are about to be balanced. Justice will come.
The Ace of Wands is the Recent Past. The beginning of a venture, an optimistic outlook. Card five is Temperance, inverted. Temperance holds two cups, and is pouring a liquid from one to the other. The liquid is water, as Temperance is in a stream, actually walking on the stream, and is an angel with red wings. OK - Temperance is calling for people to regain their composure, and seek balance and harmony. This is the present.
Card 6 is the near future, and is the Hierophant. The Hierophant represents a sacred marriage of ideas and plans. Anything started under the influence of this card is considered positive and sacred, in other words. In the next three months, such a sacred marriage will occur politically, and it will be one that sustains all.

Card seven is the three of hearts, inverted. Card seven is our attitude about this whole thing. The Three of Hearts symbolizes heartbreak, but not bad heartbreak. It is the type of heartbreak that means something has to end before another thing can begin. It also means that a lot of people - new political people and those who have just gotten into this process as hobbyists, so to speak -- will be disappointed or are afraid of being disappointed. We all have to get over that and move on. Card eight is the Queen of Swords. Other people's views. This card stands for people who are educated and quite charming when things are going their way, but who become bitter and petulant when things are going south. There's enough bitterness and disappointment, in other words, to go around.
Card nine is the Hermit; it symbolizes the querent's attitude. Going back to the querent, the Knight of Wands, remember this is our ambitious young man who lacks experience. The Hermit requires reflection and meditation; the ability to go think it out, in other words. The querent is all of us, those of us who are old hands as well as the new ones, but we are all like neophytes at the moment because we are going through a great experience, this election.

The last card is the three of Wands. This is the probable outcome, within three months time. It also means things will happen in three weeks. We are three weeks away from the Texas primary, more or less. Success is at hand. But knowledge and skill are the components we must have in order to see the fruition of our efforts.

I used Tracy Porter's book the Tarot Companion (2001) in reading this spread. I also consulted Eden Gray's Book, the Complete Guide to the Tarot. (1970)

[okasha]

19. Oi.

http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=622670&Date=2%2F12%2F2008&Name=Anonymous&Query=What+does+the+near+future+hold+for+the+United+States&Deck=cat_people&Reading=celtic_cross&Reverse=on

[silverlib]

20. Here's mine

http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=626164&Date=2%2F12%2F2008&Name=Anonymous&Query=What+is+in+Earth%27s+near+future&Deck=rider_waite&Reading=celtic_cross

Somewhat optomistic - but I'm not really good at reading this any further than what the site tells me.

[Why Syzygy]

21. Another

http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=591484&Date=2%2F12%2F2008&Name=VSM&Query=Tell+me+about+our+country%27s+path&Deck=renaissance&Reading=celtic_cross

The card not shown but at the center of the cross, represents the atmosphere surrounding the central issue. Nine of Cups (Happiness): Difficulties overcome. Favorable agreement. Reconciliation. A new beginning. Renewal of trust. Bestowal of forgiveness.

The card visible at the center of the cross represents the obstacle that stands in your way - it may even be something that sounds good but is not actually to your benefit. Ace of Swords: In the realm of events, the card signifies triumphant power. Whether for good or ill. For the life of the mind it represents the active, passionate impulses. It declares the dominance of the will and zealous, even fanatical, political or religious convictions. It is the sword of righteousness.

The card at the top of the cross represents your goal, or the best you can achieve without a dramatic change of priorities. Seven of Staves (Valor): Splendid award or valuable prize earned by one's wits, and by tricks and counter moves.

The card at the bottom of the cross represents the foundation on which the situation is based. King of Swords: A man of volatile temperament. A born fighter and ruler. A person in complete command. Self-mastery. Expertise. A person who prefers action to reflection - above all, dramatic, decisive action.

The card at the left of the cross represents a passing influence or something to be released. Knight of Cups: A person of turbulent, poetic, romantic cast. An opportunity or favorable event in the near future. Deep feeling transformed into verse, music or visions.

The card at the right of the cross represents an approaching influence or something to be embraced. Page of Coins: An intelligent and sensible young person. Dependable and practical person who yet hides mysterious corners of himself and hoards secret treasures. An admirer of the patterns of heavens, the makeup of nature, or the language of numbers.

The card at the base of the staff represents your role or attitude. Four of Coins (Power): Lustful or greedy pursuit of someone or something. Irrational action. Unreasonable desire for wealth.

The card second from the bottom of the staff represents your environment and the people you are interacting with. The Tower: Comeuppance. Setback. Disaster. Arrogance of pride cast down by Providence. Unforeseen event. Calamity.

The card second from the top of the staff represents your hopes, fears, or an unexpected element that will come into play. Three of Swords (Sorrow): Conflict of two mighty forces for the possession or mastery of something or someone. A dangerous triangle.

The card at the top of the staff represents the ultimate outcome should you continue on this course. The Judgment: Resurrection and rebirth. Perfection of the body and soul. Final reward or punishment.

[SeattleGirl]

22. This is what I got:

http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=346002&Date=2%2F12%2F2008&Name=Anonymous&Query=&Deck=rider_waite&Reading=celtic_cross

[Fire Walk With Me]

23. I did one for the near future of the USA.

http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=167097&Date=2%2F12%2F2008&Name=Anonymous&Query=the+near+future+for+the+USA&Deck=rider_waite&Reading=celtic_cross&Reverse=on

[Mojorabbit]

24. Here is mine

http://www.facade.com/tarot/personal/?UID=55966&Date=2%2F13%2F2008&Name=Anonymous&Query=&Deck=rider_waite&Reading=celtic_cross&Reverse=on

[Marie26]

25. Here's another one.

I did one just as an experiment - it turned out to be pretty interesting.

Question: How will Bush end his term in office?

The card not shown but at the center of the cross, represents the atmosphere surrounding the central issue. Three of Coins (Works): The commencement of business, commercial transactions, or employment. The constructive use of creative talents, and the expression of artistry in workmanship. Skill and labor turned to the crafting of things of value. Using the conventional as a medium for expressing the exceptional, in order to build something of great renown and glory.

The card visible at the center of the cross represents the obstacle that stands in your way - it may even be something that sounds good but is not actually to your benefit. King of Coins, when reversed: The dark essence of earth behaving as air, such as a diamond: An unyielding businessman, with a gift for identifying weakness and exploiting it for personal gain. One well informed about material affairs, but ignorant of larger, more pressing issues. A blind devotee of business as usual, unconcerned with the unintended results, and contemptuous of new ideas. A person full of greed and avarice, easily corrupted by luxury or the temptations of the flesh.

The card at the top of the cross represents your goal, or the best you can achieve without a dramatic change of priorities. Four of Coins (Power): Cleaving to earthly power in the desperate fear that it will be lost. Making yourself an obstacle to progress due to lack of originality and a desperate fear of change. Believing that security and identity are based primarily on the possession of material things. Coveting things and people. Living in a cloud of suspicion and prejudice.

The card at the bottom of the cross represents the foundation on which the situation is based. Page of Swords, when reversed: The dark essence of air behaving as earth, such as a sandstorm: The approach of an unexpected challenge, met with muddled thought and unjust action. A person filled with a destructive appetite for all matters of mind and logic. Voyeurism, espionage, and misguided witch hunts. The use of clever argument and eloquent speech to mask the truth.

The card at the left of the cross represents a passing influence or something to be released. Capricorn: The embodiment of practicality and caution. Maturity and dedication to duty and responsibility. Patience and discipline hiding a reserved sense of humor.

The card at the right of the cross represents an approaching influence or something to be embraced. Pisces: An imaginative and otherworldly dreamer, selfless and empathetic. Inner duality, balancing loving tolerance and righteous anger. Kindness and compassion resulting from dedicated introspection. Mysticism and uncanny intuition.

The card at the base of the staff represents your role or attitude. Strength: Raw power. Health and physical fortitude. A surge of tremendous force. Recovery from sickness. Victory after apprehension and fear. The ability to face and overcome opposition brings the inner qualities of strength and forbearance. Delays and setbacks will be overcome.

The card second from the bottom of the staff represents your environment and the people you are interacting with. The Devil: Being seduced by the material world and physical pleasures. Lust for and obsession with money and power. Living in fear, domination and bondage. Being caged by an overabundance of luxury. Discretion should be used in personal and business matters.

The card second from the top of the staff represents your hopes, fears, or an unexpected element that will come into play. Knight of Swords, when reversed: The dark essence of air behaving as fire, such as a tornado: A merciless and skillful warrior, unfettered by emotion or conscience. A nihilist who can refuse not even the most insurmountable of challenges. A person who inspires fear and hate through their domineering nature and the power of their presence. Speaking without tact or tolerance, in a sarcastic manner. May portend the swift initiation or conclusion of conflict, through the calamitous invocation of force.

The card at the top of the staff represents the ultimate outcome should you continue on this course. Ten of Wands (Oppression): Success and gain, leading you to take on a burden greater than you can carry. Noble leadership transformed, through lack of restraint, into tyranny. The crushing weight of ultimate responsibility. Having spent their fuel, the engines of creation grind to a halt.

[Dover]

26. Thanks for all the responses!

I'm looking them over which may take a little while. Nothing jumped out at me when I took a cursory look at these last night (and I was really tired after an unusually long day), so my plan is to spend more time with them today and will look deeper.

Feel free to do the same and see if you can pick out any common themes.

I'll be back asap.

[Dover]

29. Well.......

I have to laugh. I wrote a really long and scholarly analysis last night and spent nearly an hour and a half on it. And then... with the flick of a finger... lost it forever. You all know how devastating that can be. I often find when that happens there is usually a reason for the cosmic censorship. So after I picked myself up off the floor I pondered its meaning. And a loud voice said.... "skip the b.s. and get to the point!" So without further ado....


I've gone over these readings and gone over them again till I started to go cross-eyed :silly: and can't in good faith claim to be able to see any significant patterns. I thought perhaps we'd see a prevalence of one or more cards or a similar outcome or central issue. Perhaps it's the complexity of the future issues, or the individual perceptions or........something. Or I simply may just be missing it. So if anyone has any different thoughts please share them. If we ever do this again perhaps it would help to limit each person to one or three cards each.

At any rate the message to ME certainly seems to be....keep it simple.

[Matariki]

30. perhaps it was the lack of a clear question?

'focus on the near future' could have a multitude of meanings, no?

[Dover]

31. Yes, that went through my mind as I saw the diversity of layouts...

I began to wonder if I had defined the question enough. Perhaps you can lead us in a similar exercise sometime if/when it seems appropriate. I know you are experienced in these matters.

[Matariki]

32. I love when folks on this forum do group readings like this

I'm glad you suggested it Dover.

I hope you didn't take my post as being snarky or critical of your OP.

[Why Syzygy]

34. Let's do another one..

with a pre-defined question and three card layout with predefined placements. Personally, I don't use the Celtic Cross much. It's might be better suited to honing in on very precise issues.

Count me in!

edit: another thing is I don't use reversals. That varies by reader too.

[Dover]

37. Yeah, I don't use reversals either. I'm all for trying again now or in the future

with stricter parameters and fewer cards.

[Dover]

36. No, not at all. I was sincerely responding.

I too had considered that the question itself might have been too open ended.
AND I would love it if you shared or lead us in some future endeavor along these lines.

[PinkTiger]

33. I'm somewhat of a traditionalist on the tarot, as I've been reading for

about 40 years. So I'm less confident with the machine-generated ones; I firmly believe that the cards have to be laid out just so, and then meditated on; I use the books only to make sure I don't forget anything. The interpretations are my own.
So maybe if those people who were truly experienced on the Tarot and use it as a tool, not as a fortune telling device (the way I use it is more as a policy review on my life) could do this again????

Thanks, Dover.

[Why Syzygy]

35. ack! I still hate when that happens.. cosmic

or not. Sometimes I compose in a different format and copy it to post.

I didn't do an in depth examine, but did look at each one. It seems there were at least three that had Ace of Wands and Ace of Pentacles in the Cross section. Since I don't read with Rx's, I find them confusing in a chart.

I absolutely think we should do this again very soon with a much smaller layout. I'm still on with your original idea.