Neptune and the Primary Season

[ccpup]

Just noticed that yesterday Neptune -- the planet that can help one dream and create, but also dissolve rock solid ground beneath your feet leaving you with nothin' when you thought you had everything -- left his opposition with Hillary's Saturn and began an irritating pow-wow with Barack's Mars (by quincunx, or 150 degrees) and Michelle Obama's Saturn (by conjunction!). And he's gonna have a sit-down talkin' to with the both of them for the next month.

Ouch.

What Michelle thought was secure and inevitable may dissolve before her very eyes into something she finds very distressing and depressing. For Barack, he may find Neptune, in the guise of the Media, becoming a new and constant source of tension and frustration as well as the reason he has to recalibrate (as in the speeches he gives?) his way of getting to his goal.

He may win Wisconsin tonight, but -- as Neptune also rules the Mass Media as well as spin and falsehoods -- it may be marred (or even ignored) by lingering or growing questions about this plagiarism matter which, in and of itself, is a strongly Neptune matter as it links one's talent to inspire along with an actor's (another matter ruled by Neptune) ability to sell an idea or words that aren't his or her own.

In fact, the Obamas may find the ground rudely shifting beneath their feet over the next month. Ground they thought was solidly built on ain't-goin'-nowhere concrete -- his speeches and his rhetoric -- turning into unpredictable quicksand.

Much as Hillary thought her leads in the Polls were solid only to watch them evaporate over the last month as Neptune spanked her Saturn into submission -- and the Media stood ready, shovels in hand, to bury her --, the Obamas may find their own "success" being tested by Neptune's ability to be the big wet blanket to everyone's dreams followed, no less, by Saturn -- the ultimate buzz kill if one has attempted to succeed by cutting corners -- (cough) Deval Patrick's speeches (cough) -- stationing square Barack's Moon and opposite Michelle's Venus in April and throughout May.

And I didn't even mention transiting Chiron leaving the square to Hillary's Venus to square Barack's Ascendant and Michelle's Neptune.

With all that going on, I wouldn't count Hillary out just yet.

P.S. This Neptune returns to Barack's Mars and Michelle's Saturn around the Convention and around Inauguration.

Just more grist for the astro-mill, I guess.

[ccpup]

1. some synchronicity for ya

Posted today on StarIQ from Michael Wolfstar:

...

Hillary Clinton's horoscope (October 26, 1947; 8:00 am; Park Ridge, IL) features Mercury conjunct her Scorpio Ascendant square Saturn near her Midheaven. This angular configuration emphasizes her practical, logical, no-nonsense approach to politics. She calls herself a "problem solver," but over the past several weeks, transiting Neptune has entered into this mix, eroding her authority and command of the game plan (Saturn in Leo).

From Hillary's perspective, transiting Neptune has arrived in the form of Barack Obama. Neptune specializes in hope, vision, and inspiration, which Obama personifies since his Leo Sun squares Neptune. While Hillary has the nuts-and-bolts experience (Saturn), Obama has the ability to evoke the dream of a better, more unified world (Neptune). Fortunately for Hillary, Neptune has moved out of her Mercury-Saturn complex, as the doubt and uncertainty are being put behind her.

The planetary alignment that triggered her campaign shuffle** is also just completed, and Mercury has just turned direct, so I suspect she will engineer a decent turn around by March 4. Transiting Saturn will be exactly conjunct her Midheaven then, as her political future hangs in the balance. If Obama can't deliver a knock-out blow then (under his best astrological prospects), then the fight continues, perhaps all the way to the convention in late August.

more at link: http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0008532.HTM

-- He does also write about Barack's SP (Secondary Progressed) -- or what he calls P2 -- Jupiter trine his P2 Sun, an aspect that points to his startling popularity but which begins separating after March 4th --

If the fight continues throughout April and into May, that's when it gets difficult for Barack as that Saturn stations square his Moon and opposite Michelle's Venus. One of the aspects Robert Hand mentions about Neptune opposite Saturn (what Hillary just moved out of) is of someone challenging your World View by imposing his or her own and, in doing so, making you defend what you believe. Anyone watching could certainly see that particular Neptune-Saturn theme in effect for Hillary over the last month as well as the erosion of her support in the Polls.

Now we get to sit back and see how Neptune manifests for Barack's Mars and Michelle's Saturn.

[BlueIris]

2. Check out the Neptune action in Bill Clinton's chart for '08.

Kinda interesting.

[ccpup]

3. Hmmmm ...

on the day of the Convention, Neptune is within a degree of being trine both his Jupiter and his Uranus (is that a Grand Trine? I'm not sure). And on Inauguration Day, he's returned to that trine with his Jupiter and is two degrees from trine his Uranus. But then Neptune moves opposite Bill's Sun in April at the same time Hillary's P2 Moon and Uranus meet by conjunction. Hmmmm ...

I'll take a more complete look at the charts later. But, from this cursory glance, I'm not seeing Neptune smothering Bill's Saturn like he does to Michelle. I know so little about that, but all I can think is "ouch!"

[katty]

6. march 4th saturn will conjunct hillary's MC

a major turning point.

[ccpup]

7. This Saturn then moves to trine her Sun

and then station in that trine by 72 minutes, or something, from mid-April and throughout May.

Some have said that Saturn on her MC will mean she's through and conceding the race, but -- with the astrology that follows his visit over her MC (Mars trine Sun, Mars sextile MC, Mars sextile SP Mars not to mention both Barack and Michelle's Neptune and Saturn visits as well as the Saturn station sextile her Sun) -- I have a difficult time seeing the depression and let-down that would inevitably follow that decision. It looks like invigorating work and a breath of energized clean air!

[katty]

8. concur-could be especially w/those lovely trines - they

are so, well, as lucky as sextiles. Contrary to the Barack momentum - I think she will take OH and TX - especially with Saturn sextile her Sun, lordy, that is a strong one.

[ccpup]

9. the Saturn sextile her Sun

is from mid-March all the way until mid-May and that's including the first hit as he retrogrades, the station and then the second direct hit.

One thing I haven't mentioned -- and this is because I really don't understand it all that well, so any information would be greatly appreciated -- is that Mars, during the March 4th Primary, is conjunct Hillary's SP Part of Fortune. He then moves on to conjunct Barack's Venus (March 7 through 10th) and then trines her Sun, sextiles her MC and sextiles her SP Mars.

Add to that that transiting Chiron (and a now direct Mercury) will be square Barack's Ascendant and square Michelle's Neptune on March 4th, and I suspect you may be right about her winning OH and TX -- and maybe RI, too? -- and being far from out of the game. She's just too jazzed up for someone having just conceded!

There must be SOMETHING that's causing Barack's depression (with that Saturn station square his Moon: edited to add Saturn also stations in opposition to Michelle's Venus and semi-sextile Bill's Saturn). Could it be Hillary's irritating habit of being the Political Energizer Bunny who keeps going and going and going and going and just won't go away and give him the Prize?

:shrug:

[katty]

10. hmmm,mars conj HRC's SP Part of Fortune-intense/fateful- then

conjunt Obama's venus (in cancer)but the trines to her sun, sextiles and SP Mars is indeed super energizing, knocking it out of the park--she will not give up the fight (Mars)so easy. If she must concede (and I just don't see that right now, at least)it has to be with an 'inner peace' with it-with all those trines/sextiles. She is indeed the energizer bunny in the ring - in the fight of her life-Mars gives her the impetus to keep on going for her goal. There are quite a few that believe she should concede now-but she won't-soon she will be going into debates with Obama. for Obama the sta sat sq moon to me is: I am not getting what I want NOW-saturn is the obstacle/feeling blocked, restriction=hillary (her continual presence right now)...etc. He's a Leo, sunny nature, not inclined to want to fight that much-he's stubborn enough, and moon in taurus, w/ NN conj. uranus, but he just wants to 'get it over with'-Uranus and NN conj has very little patience with the process-and now, a slugfest which is actually just beginning. For Michelle O - saturn oppose venus means she should avoid getting 'tripped up' in mis-interpretations, confusion, debate (opposition) by her natual enthusiasm to share (venus)by the pundits, forces of so-called political authority (saturn). Going forward, she should be very careful and choose her words carefully. It's all very interesting.

[ccpup]

11. I find it interesting

that Barack started this Primary Journey in January with SP Moon conjunct his Jupiter and trine his Natal Moon and now, with Saturn moving to station 1 degrees 39 minutes from square his Moon (some say he won't feel it, I think he will. What do you think?), he may find his journey to the nomination blocked (Saturn) by a female (Moon).

It's all about that Moon with him, I think. Very sensitive spot, in trine with his Jupiter.

What are your thoughts on Neptune conjunct Michelle's Saturn? I just keep thinking 'ouch!' and 'damn!'

(edited to change "in" in the subject line to "it") :eyes:

[katty]

12. i think he will feel the 1/39 to his moon, that is too close

for any comfort - sat sq to moon, indeed, 'classic' block to integrating the feminine energy/principal (psychological integration, etc), but usually shows up in the form of a real female, for him of course, it is Hillary Clinton his opponent. Nep conj Michelle's saturn, god, that is a tough one--it is that 'dissolving (Neptune) before your very eyes' factor of Neptune and contact with Saturn it is a feeling of 'no control' anymore-something is going away or is gone. It can be quite depressing-and a sense of how the hell did this happen? or WHY is this happening--this was NOT supposed to happen?! Although MO has air signs in her natal chart, it is the fixed sign of Aquarius that keep her determined and goal oriented-Aquarius (IMO) is not as airy and democratic as it has been presented, they want what they want-impatient to get to the goal. However, Obama's Sun in Leo conj NN in Leo atop his chart gives him an edge--perhaps--to broker a deal that may work out better for him down the line.
He has a revolutionary spirit generally in policy but more so in tactics - and it will be suppressed (no doubt)to a great degree if he achieves the presidency, right now he may truly believe that he can overcome the 'forces of D.C. and the power players'(PTB) on the international scene that call the shots as prez-and no doubt his supporters in powerful positions have told him that-but the reality is different and just like JFK he will be muzzled by greater forces at play that have been anchored long before he showed up. If he goes all out to breakup the beltway cabals and special interests when he is in the WH, he may actually start a second American revolution-similar to Abraham Lincoln's (karmic!)job as president. Lincoln, FDR, JFK are presidents that got the job of prez as a 'karmic necessity' to move the nation along...they may have not been aware of it until later, but great responsibility was thrust upon each of them at critical passes in a rather, young America. Obama may, if he becomes president, might enter the same type of national crisis period-then the job gets real tough. (sorry this is way too long!)

[ccpup]

13. thank you so much

not a long read at all. I enjoyed it very much. If Barack were to step into the mantle of an FDR or JFK and lead the country through a revolution or a difficult time, it would show up in his Secondary Progressions, right?

Well, right now, his SP Ascendant is quincunx his Natal Pluto and in late 2009 will be quincunx his SP Pluto. He has an ongoing SP Mars/Mercury conjunction which begins separating in January 2009 and this SP Mercury moves into a sextile with his Natal Uranus in late 2010 and is square his Natal Saturn in 2011. SP Mars will also sextile his Uranus in 2012 as his SP Sun is sextile his Mercury and square his Venus.

Conversely, Hillary has SP Jupiter trine both her Mars/Pluto conjunction and her SP Pluto from December of this year all the way through 2013. Her SP Sun is trine her MC beginning in January 09 then moves into a SP Full Moon Phase with her SP Moon in 2010 and is then trine her SP Mars in 2011. And then, in 2012, her SP Mercury is trine her MC.

Just a quick cursory look.

[katty]

14. concur-it would be highlighted by SP's--they are so often

missed or misinterpreted. Obama's Quincunx to natal and later SP pluto is quite uncomfortable, but the job will get done one way or another! Hillary's Jup,Mars,Pluto, etal thru 2013 gives her a prominent seat at the 'karmic' (national) table-somewhere?-but maybe not the WH. And, with Pluto just into Cap, the new prez in 2009 carries the burden of many post-WW2 decades of policies/tactics that are now 'completely outworn'-as consciousness goes...so we go into a new 'forms' as well. fascinating time.

[mother earth]

4. Thank you, ccpup. I can't watch any of the primary results without

thinking of your astro "takes". March 4th is going to be interesting to say the least.

[ccpup]

5. March 4th will be interesting.

I don't think there will be any knock-out punches, though. Barack does have Mars meeting his Venus a few days later (he'll win Wyoming on the 8th, probably), but then this Mars goes on to trine Hillary's Sun first before being opposition her SP Sun, sextile her MC, sextile her SP Mars throughout March and then make some sweet trines with her Venus, Ascendant and Mercury in April. Those are "work aspects", not "depression" aspects.

For some reason, I keep thinking the race in Mississippi (March 11th) will be a surprise in some way. It appears as if it'd be a slam dunk for Barack, but the astrology of Mars trine Hillary's Sun during and immediately after that time -- as well as the continuing Saturn quincunx P2 (or SP, if that's easier) Barack's Moon and Chiron -- indicate it may NOT be.

As much as people are gunning for Hillary to pull out, I don't believe she will. And, in light of the astrology for March, April and May as well as Convention Day, Election Day and Inauguration Day, she shouldn't.

In fact, she may be gearing up to pull-off the absolute Mother of all Political Comebacks. One that would make even Bill Clinton's NH Primary resurrection in 1992 seem paltry by comparison.

In any case, one candidate (and their spouse) looks despondent and another (and their spouse) looks happy come August.