Ratzinger new pope - Title will be Benedict XVI

[Mandate My Ass]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/

formerly the Vatican’s chief doctrinal officer, a uniter, not a divider.

Exclusive claim
By JOHN L. ALLEN JR.
NCR Staff
Rome


Aiming to stop a new movement in Catholic theology in its tracks, the Vatican issued a major document this week emphatically denying that other world religions can offer salvation independent of Christianity and insisting that making converts to Catholicism remains an “urgent duty.”

The push within Catholicism to accept other religions as vehicles for divine revelation and saving power is often called the “theology of religious pluralism,” and is most closely linked to theologians and bishops in Asia. One consequence of this view is that dialogue with members of other religions, rather than attempts to convert them, becomes the focus of interreligious exchange.

The new document, titled Dominus Iesus, or “The Lord Jesus,” and presented by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in a Sept. 5 news conference, firmly rejects this stance. Ratzinger, the Vatican’s chief doctrinal officer, was joined at the news conference by his top assistant, Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, and by two priests who worked on the document: Salesian Fr. Angelo Amato, vice rector of the Pontifical Salesian University in Rome, and Msgr. Fernando Ocáriz, vicar general of Opus Dei.

While allowing that followers of other religions can be saved (though only in a mysterious fashion and only through the grace of Christ), Dominus Iesus insists they are nevertheless in a “gravely deficient situation” in comparison to Christians who alone “have the fullness of the means of salvation.” The full name of the document is “Dominus Iesus: On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church.”

The document was swiftly branded a “pastoral disaster” by theologians involved in interreligious dialogue. In Asia, some experts predicted it could inflame already tense relations between Catholicism and other religious communities.

http://ncronline.org/NCR_Online/archives/091500/091500a.htm

[Me.]

1. Just Keeps Piling Up

doesn't it? Opus Dei's man in. How sad for the world. Personally, and no disrespect to any Catholics who believe, but I hope he follows in the footsteps of his namesake Benedictus XV who had a very short "reign".

[stellanoir]

2. he was born

on April 16, 1927 somewhere in Germany. . .no birththime found as yet. Moon in Libra, but both the North Node and Venus made ingresses that day. Mars is definitely at 29 degrees of Gemini, and depending on the birthtime, he could potentially have Mercury and Venus at 29 degrees of their respective signs as well.

The last Pope may not have been a progressive but had much better vibes. IMHO

[mtnester]

3. Although I am relatively new to the Malachy Prophecy, it appears

it may be continuing to be played out. This new Pope seems to meet the criteria for the final pope before Satan himself leads the church.

I would not mind hearing from the experts on this, though. I have only been becoming more learned on this subject for the past several months.

[InvisibleTouch]

4. I'm very curious...

...what you astrologers will say about his birth chart. Maybe some insights to be had?

[loudsue]

5. So distressing....but I knew it was going to be him.

He's been carrying on all the Pope's business for the past several years, while PJPII was unable to do much except wave to the faithful masses.

RAT-zinger even looks evil to me. I really hope it wakes people up that an Opus Dei fanatic has been made pope. These are very weird times we live in. The perpetrators of the "old ways", the UNENLIGHTENED old ways, are about to lose their death grip on power, but it's going to take another few years. I think making RAT-zinger pope may hasten the awakening of some of the masses as to how much trouble we're really in.

It's time for a new enlightenment to shed light on the old darkness.

This man will NOT be a uniter.

:kick:

[Mandate My Ass]

6. I kind of had that feeling too, like it was inevitable

He definitely does not have the godlike vibe JPII had, but now that I've resigned myself to the fact that he's pope, that might be a good thing after all. He's definitely to the right of JPII but he doesn't have the touchy-feely demeanor so I believe he'll raise more alarm bells among the flock, particularly in the US.

Sadly, since I heard the news I've been googling and every fact I find out about him is scarier than the last. He is exactly like Bush, authoritarian, does not tolerate questions about his actions or any form of dissent. The most horrible seems to be he's the chief architect of Operation Pedophilia Cover Up.

Plus, from several things I've read about his belief in the conversion of the Jews, like Bush I think he believes all this Armageddon stuff and probably megalomaniacally sees himself serving some dramatic end-times role.

God's Rottweiler, indeed. :-(

[hippiechick]

7. How ironic will it be ....

... when the 'End Times' do start and the fundie intolerants are the ones who are smote with G*d's anger ... and those of us who are tolerant, accepting and more Spiritual/Pagan leaning (true Christians, by the "Jesus Definition", IMHO) are 'taken up to Heaven' (ie, begin the Ascension) ??


O8)

[Michael Sharp]

9. does our tolerance

melt over to those who are fundie intolerants. Or do we want them to be smote just like they want us to be smote?


we are in the end-times and if we follow "that" road, no matter what our political leaning, we ends up in the same location as the other.


Anyone who claims to be to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the dark.

1 John 2:9

scuse me for that. Jesus, now I'm quoting scripture

don't get me wrong, the bible is a corrupted mess of elite imposed darkness. But as I always say, when you see the light, share it

ms

[Desertrose]

11. BINGO: "Anyone who claims to be to be in the light but hates his brother

..... is still in the dark."


So true and something we need to remember....thanks, Michael.

[hippiechick]

19. I don't recall saying that I hated them ...

... only that I was pointing out the obvious irony of the situation.

Please don't assume to know my mind.

Thank you.

[Cha]

20. I don't claim to be in the light...

I have a long way to go.

So "hating" gw bush and his henchpeople.. feels so right to me.

But, I am happy for everyone who is in the enlightened stage.

[Me.]

8. Birth Info

as posted at Astroworld:
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger's birth information is 4/16/27, Marktl, Germany, 4:15AM.

[stellanoir]

10. thanks for posting

I couldn't find it. Will check it out later. The garden is beckoning.

[loudsue]

14. Thanks for that, Me! Check out prog. Sun conj. prog. Uranus

In the 4th house in Gemini. His chart is not nearly as spiritual as JPII's chart was.

BTW, do you know what time he was declared pope? The Moon was void for a while today. Was the Moon void at the time he was elected?

I just wish his Opus Dei crap would "come to nothing".

:kick:

[Me.]

15. Family Member Said It Was 6pm In Rome

when the first whiff of smoke went up, though that says nothing about the time the vote was taken or the results declared.

[SpiralHawk]

17. The "official" installation comes Sunday, with the eclipse

at 4 Scorpio-Taurus. That will be the chart of his papacy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Due to the age we may be looking at... a transition Pope as well

the fact that he was part of the Hitler Youth does not give me any warm fuzzy

[Pallas180]

13. Okasha and St. Malachy called it - see the discussion toward

the end of the FIRST Pope thread, before we now have four :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=5934&mesg_id=5934

[Dover]

16. Ratz!

Well, Catholicism's rigidity as an institution will crumble on its own, regardless. They are not a 'living system', and will become irrelevant....as will the neocons. Whether it will be a long or short cycle is not as clear, but what seems to happen when people become disillusioned and stifled is that they either give up (which means their egos are dependent upon the illusion) or they simply discard and/or work around the old obstacles in order to keep growing. But disillusionment seems an essential part of the process.

[cliss]

18. I agree. I'm pretty much OK

with this new Pope, because he is so rigid that he's probably going to alienate a lot of people. They will leave the church in ever-greater numbers. I think he could be the catalyst for the church being "unable to move forward with the times".

Dover, when I read that a new Pope had been chosen, I jumped over to your thread in the Meeting Room about the "New Pope assassinated". I scrolled down to the Hogue prediction.

Now it's interesting because Pope Benedict XVI was born in Marktl Am Inn near Traunstein. This is in Bavaria, near the southern border by Austria. Nostradamus had said that the next Pope "would come from Ancient France". Now, Traunstein doesn't appear to be within Ancient France's boundaries but I could be wrong.

On to St. Malachy's prediction about the New Pope: he said that the next-to-the-last Pope would be the "Gloria Olivae" or the Glory of the Olives. I don't see anything in his family tree that would refer to this (Ratzinger is German).

Although, it could be like Hogue writes, "The next pope could be a great peace maker". Or, Gloria Olivae begins his reign as a Pope bearing the "olive" branch of peace, but later he becomes the pontiff enduring Christ's apocalyptic prophecies fro the Sermon on the Mount of "Olives".

Also, "If the College of Cardinals convening on April 18 takes the short-lived caretaker route in their balloting, then Cardinal Ratzinger has the best chance."

Interesting. We'll see.

[Dover]

21. Hogue's interpretations of Nostradamus are not that reliable

in my experience. I should qualify that by saying that I'm not a Nostradamus scholar so don't really have much of a grasp of the interpretations. I posted that because I know there are people here who follow Hogue and/or Nostradamus very closely. Maybe they have formed a different opinion. But even if we had a reliable interpretation of Nostradamus and other prophetic visions (like Cayce and others), I think those visions are no more etched in stone than the institutions that crumble from their rigid forms...because it's all subject to our Wills and natural laws....that is, if you believe that the world of form is basically an illusion we have collectively created.

It's not surprising to me (though often emotional and painful)that our old brittle structures are experiencing a huge test of their relevancy and their ability to change...if for no other reason than their inability to remain effective and keep up with the acceleration of 'time'. What is not sustainable, or goes against natural law and human evolution will eventually fold. But of course the response to and what lies beneath the fear of change is actually fear of death (on whatever level...of power, of illusions, of institutions and infrastructure, of the body, of values, of a way of life, etc.) and an inability to adapt and trust. So they aren't fighting for life so much as against death....of the ego forms they've become identified with. Or maybe one could interpret it as fear of Life.

We can always quicken and direct change by focusing on Life and growth of consciousness and an ever expanding Truth.

Interesting that this Papacy will begin on the eclipse of Scorpio 4+ degrees (read as 5). The Sabian symbol is

A MASSIVE ROCKY SHORE RESISTS THE POUNDING OF THE SEA.

The Inertia of all institutionalized procedures.

Slow is the rise of the land from the vast ocean, but once it is formed it develops a formidable resistance to change in spite of storms. Likewise, once a culture has expressed its basic symbols and its particular way of thinking, feeling and acting in concrete institutions, these change very slowly indeed. The individual who came to the great city (Scorpio 1 symbol) soon finds his life set by the rhythms of city living, which obliterate vaster life processes and the moving tides of evolution.

We see in this symbol how binding and resistant a communal way of life can become. In this there is strength and stability, and these are necessary factors in the social life of man - until new horizons beckon.

[Dover]

22. The experts weigh in on Pope Ratzinger

Grabbed this post from GD:

The experts weigh in on Pope Ratzinger

Michael Phayer, author of "The Catholic Church and the Holocaust, 1930-1965"

I was not thrilled by any means with the choice of Cardinal Ratzinger. Like Pius IX in the middle of the 19th century, Ratzinger was "burned" by the student unrest in Germany in the 1960s, and fled his teaching post at Tuebingen. His attitude contrasts that of John Paul II, who looked toward rebirth in society with hope, not with fear. Ratzinger's life experiences, beginning with the Nazis, has, I am afraid, led him to recoil and push away from encountering the world.

Dr. Matthew Fox, founder of Wisdom University and author of "Original Blessing"

Why should we be surprised that the current Catholic hierarchy -- which elevated Cardinal Law, the poster boy for pedophile clergy, to a special place of power in Rome -- has just elected Cardinal Ratzinger as pope? The yes-men of Pope John Paul II's church have chosen one of their own, who is guaranteed to play the role of the punitive father.

Ratzinger will be the inquisitor general of the 21st century. He led the assault on theologians and women, yoga (calling it "dangerous" because it gets you too much in touch with your body), homosexuals (who are "evil"), liberation theology, ecumenism and interfaith, and now he's been made the spiritual head of 1.1 billion people.

Cardinal Ratzinger is living proof of the dictum coined by Catholic historian Lord Acton after the First Vatican Council's declaration of papal infallibility: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Ratzinger does not support movements of justice, and has committed his career to silencing those who do. He is also committed to elevating the rich and powerful, such as Escriva, fascist sympathizer and founder of Opus Dei, to sainthood...cont'd

It is a sad day and a decisive one for the Roman Catholic Church.


http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2005/04/20/pope_reax/index_np.html

[Pallas180]

23. Well, maybe he had to be Pope, so that the next Pope will be

the last and endure the destruction of the church.

From Ratzinger denying Kerrry and those who vote for him communion, to calling homosexuals evil, to denying women's rights....sounds perfect for the setup of dissatisfaction and dissolution of the church that he will bring upon the next and last Pope.

Too bad the guys who make the trouble aren't the ones who have to suffer the consequences.

[seventythree]

24. hopefully,

the prediction of the end of the church is metaphorical -- if so, one can see how this Pope could lead the way.