Can lack of forgiveness make you ...sick? unworthy? what?

[FirstLight]

I had a rough time a few years back. Bad ex hubby, abused me while pregnant, raped me inot a second pregnancy, terrorized my older son, and really did a number on me as far as trusting my own mind...then after we left I found he'd been uploaing LOTS of child pron, and we even had to have my 2 yr old daughter checked by an ME (camera forced inside her while I held her legs open for 2 hours) the tests were inconclusive if he molested her, but the psychological signs were there that he was beinning the process..

anyway - I am unable to really forgive him. I even feel vindicated in wanting him to get the worst posible treatment (he's in San Quentin for another bust for 6 years...)and as "sad" as it is that he blew his ONLY chance at a normal life and he will be truly insitutionalized by 2013...I still think he deserves it.

Universal law says I should let it go. That I can forgive him and understand that his soul was merely performing a "service" by allowing me to clear the karma...blahblahblah

can this "stuckness" make me ill? contribute to depression? female problems...? I know the answer is probably yes, and yet I am still at a loss as to how to fix this.

I understand forgiveness as a concept, but somewhere in my heart, it dies in relation to him.

It's been a bad few weeks, and my motional state has landed me on probabtion at work and losing hours. So now I am going to have to see if I can get on Disability to try to iron out the depression that has reared its ugly head again and my life is still a shambles 5 years later... I am pissed that I haven't been able to heal and that I am still this screwe up even with all my "knowing" and my efforts to be strong and just get through it. ...just pissed that I will be seeking a new psychiatrist or counselor and having to dredge it up and scared at what will come out that I have avoided for so long. (the sexual degradation, etc)Trust and intimacy are huge, and I know I can't have it until I heal it...but the task fels like it may just kill me. If my body is in this much pain holding on to this crap, the work looks really scary.

Do I HAVE to? :whiner:

[Shallah Kali]

1. IMO no you don't have to forgive

If it comes to you someday down the road sure go along with it but now focus on healing yourself! Deal with universal law LATER. You are wounded and your child is wounded. It is important to stop the bleeding and start the healing just as if you were physically injured and leaking blood you don't stop to figure out the karmic intricicies. You stop the bleeding, set the bones, repair the injuries *first*.

You have a right to whatever emotion you feel including anger and rage. The only issue is what do you do with it. Surpressing emotion because it is 'unspiritual' or for other reason only keeps it alive and turns it into shadow stuff. And I am not saying it is easy but finding help and technqiues to deal with strong emotions is key or at least has been in my healing process. I am lucky to have a psychotherapist I work with who does bodywork at the same time and she is Scorpio. Nothing scares her and she has helped me own my anger and see it for what it is a normal reaction to violation. Anger and surpresed anger turned into rage are normal human emotions. Used properly they help have the strength to fight back and stand up for ourselves. Like the flight or fight response when badly wired it turns into a phobia or anxiety problem but when things are operating properly it gives us the strength to fight or escape a bad situation. A person who has been abused and has had their child abused has a right to be angry! If you feel like a mama bear who wants to rend and tear I don't blame you one bit and I personally think that is a healthy response.

You are NOT a whiner and I wish I could give you more help than this inchoherent response like you deserve. You have been traumatized, you are human, you aren't expected to be perfect and treat yourself like you would a dear friend in the same situation. Think of what you would say and how you would encourage her to not beat herself up for being human and feeling so angry. Try to extend some of the compassion you think your ex deserves to *yourself*.

[Shallah Kali]

3. Here are a few things that have helped me heal that others might find of service

Please consider and use your judgment to decide what, if any, might suit.

Reiki which clears the way so that one may channel a very pure healing energy without great effort or complex ritual or having to meditate and fast on a mountain top for a month like Master Usui did. Here is my favorite Reiki discussion group that offers free attunements to level 1 and 2 *and* welcomes healing requests whether or not you are attuned. Just post to the discussion forum/email list or post it to the database. I never gave me full name and only gave my state and yet I still got valid attunements and lovely healing energy sent to me. Reiki is no cure all but it certain helps: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Reiki_On

MAP (Medical Assistance Process) Conings -
http://sacredbirthing.tribe.net/thread/9518ec62-8c6d-4d6b-98ea-5e0bf228a36b

I have used this process for over 10 years now and found it very useful. I feel like I got a partial bodywork session after doing a coning. Usually I do one just before sleep and close it when I wake up for the day. The woman who first channeled the process gets fits over people doing this but my MAP team still does 'em for me all the same. Some people get detailed connection to their MAP team but I rarely get any sensation or impression. All I do is lay down, say the sentences to open the coning and invite in your MAP team and then describe the problem you want help with. First session is a scanning session where you describe all your issues in detail and they get used to your energy. Really woowoo but it actually works even if I never could get the knesiology thing to work.

Even more WooWoo The Pleiadian Workbook by Amorah Quan Yin but again it is like getting bodywork at home which is great when issues are acting up and I can only budget the time and $ for one session with my therapist per week. This book has a series of processes a veritable smorgusboard of treatments. The two most used by me are the Integration Acceleration Chamber of Light and the Emotional Healing Chamber. Third is Cellular Reorientation and Repatterning. These days I can use apendulum to communicate but when I started using these I would just say the words and if the team decided it was right for me I would feel the energy activate, if not nothing happened, no harm was done and they never got miffed at me :) I dislike recing this as you really need a copy of the book for this but it is really worth it. If you are comfortable requesting woowoo books through your library ask for an interlibrary loan.

[Bluestar]

2. Oh, Journalgrrl, my heart goes out to you

I agree with Shallah, you don't have to forgive. That is just heaping a big old bunch of guilt on yourself that you don't deserve. If you choose to forgive later, that's your choice, but don't worry about making it your goal. Your goal is to heal yourself, your child and your physical being.

Here's a trick my guide taught me. Have a telepathic conversation with your ex and tell him how you feel. Say all the things that you were afraid to say to his face. If you find you forget to say something, do multiple conversations. Just get it all out, but do so in a kind way to you and your physical body. If you find yourself getting too upset, dial it back a bit and do it slower. The purpose is to release the bad energy that you absorbed during this.

At some point say "I'm sending all the energy from him back to him and I no longer hold onto it." Then just visualize all this energy flowing back to him. This is very cathartic and should help you get stronger every day.

Sending you much love and light,
Bluestar

[Shallah Kali]

5. Return to sender

My therapist taught me that same technique. After telling the person all the things I needed to let out she would have me put all of that person's energy that was stuck in me into a box which I gave back to that person. Abusers tend to be good at dumping the guilt and shame *THEY* should be feeling on those they perpatrate upon. I would suggest starting out with someone who has harmed you less to practice this technique upon if you have't tried something like this before. If you like affirmations at the same time you could say something like "I (state your name) gently release all the (pick emotion) that belongs to X" three times once each for physical, mental, & emotional levels. Ritual bathing and smudging is extra potent after this.

[rosesaylavee]

9. Another way to do the same thing without confronting the person

which can be dangerous in some cases...

A counselor friend suggested this to me at one point. And we have come to call it 'sending a spiritual fax'.

Write to the person in question. Address every feeling, every hurt, every incident that caused you to feel what you did. Write whatever comes to mind. There is no time limit or amount of paper you can use. When you feel you are done and the record is as complete as you can make it at this moment in time and you feel you have nothing more to say, take the wad of paper out to your grill or put in your fireplace or some safe place and set it on fire. Watching it burn can be very cathartic, releasing a lot of tension and feelings. Sometimes, this ritual even makes me laugh - the release is just that great. If there is more to be said later, this can always be repeated.

I find it very helpful.

[crikkett]

28. "I'm sending all the energy from him back to him and I no longer hold onto it."

I think this is the key.

As someone who is continually hurt by a person I can't help but love, this is what gets me through not just the evening but the wee dark hours of the morning.

"I am rubber, you are glue".

It's funny as hell but it works.

I'm sorry that you and your kids are subject to this crap. I've had a similar life so I know you all can overcome this.

Love heals, love conquers all!

[Cleita]

4. You are the victim. You can't feel guilty about anything like this.

You don't have to forgive until you are ready. You will know when that time is and then it will feel right. You need to work on your self esteem and being good to yourself. It's okay to focus on your personal needs and happiness. But don't beat up on yourself for what somebody did to you. Thank the universe that your ordeal is over and that you can move on. It's okay to pray for a better life, better things and better times and you can postpone the forgiveness as long as you like IMHO. If I had gone through what you have, I'm certain that forgiveness would be a long time coming on my part. You didn't hurt anyone and you don't owe him anything.

[Kind of Blue]

6. Hi, Journalgrrl. I agree with Shallah that you should extend

compassion to yourself right away. How about even a tiny little bit of love and forgiveness of the self first? You wrote, "...just pissed that I will be seeking a new psychiatrist or counselor and having to dredge it up and scared at what will come out that I have avoided for so long." I relate to that statement so profoundly because that's where it starts, but in your own time. Sometimes it takes years to vent righteous anger as part of the process to face what you have to dredge up. But, eventually in my life, I've had to wonder what the payoff is in holding onto righteous anger, grieving, and frustration, other than I was a victim and was not to blame. But that's not enough.

When I'm suffering and just unable to be strong any longer, but ready for answers, I ask the Higher Self to please show specifically why I can't move on? The answers for me usually come in dreams or insight. You might try it because I think sometimes therapy brings up too much too fast, but the Higher Self only sends the answers about self in small doses to deal with.

Sending lots of Love, Light and Laughter to you. :)

[conscious evolution]

7. Laugh

Sounds wierd but I have found that laughing at those that caused me harm tends to release a lot of anger and rage that I harbor towards them.

[mysticalchick]

8. Oh Journalgrrl ...

... my heart and soul hears your sadness, pain and anger. I'm sending you (as have probably all of us reading your post) a big blanket of love and light, enough to fill a room so go into that energy of love whenever you feel afraid. Thank you for posting about it - I know it's hard to dredge up the crap even for something like this, much less going to a therapist and all.

The suggestions here for healing are so amazing and loving. I would encourage the bodywork ideas presented as well. I've had years and years and YEARS of therapy, which I love and could do forever because I like talking about that stuff. And perhaps it gave me the foundation to be able to do the bodywork which followed and helped move me to a whole different place. I could talk about my "stuff" til I'm blue in the face but I found that it kept me in my head and didn't work for me on a day-to-day level. What did work, almost effortlessly, was the energetic healings I've done over the past few years. Releasing all the "stuff" that I took in from others and scrunched down inside was like losing a bizillion pounds. (ha! if only!) So, if you feel guided to try any of the suggestions others have given, know that you will be supported by the Universe in your work. (As I wrote that, I was reminded that you will be supported NO MATTER WHAT.)

(After I wrote the following paragraph, I realized it came through me, not from me so take this as a message from your guides if you wish.)

As others have said, no need to force forgiveness - it will come in time, whether that's 6 months or 6 years or on your deathbed. It will come when you are ready so trust in that. The one to forgive in the NOW is yourself - and offer yourself the same kindness and love you would your best friend who has endured what you have. That, as others have said, is the most important piece. All else will follow. With regard to your ex - again, trust that the Universe will mete out to him what he has given others - good and bad. You may never see that being done but it most assuredly will be done. Guaranteed. Your work is with yourself.

All love to you,
MC

[Celebration]

10. so sorry you are going through all this

None of this is your fault. That is just not the issue. People have given great answers here. Forgiveness vs. Not Forgiveness is also not really the issue here. Unsurprisingly, you may have failed to heal from these events. Can this cause you problems of all kinds? Yes. Now, what is there to do about it? I am a huge fan of energetic therapies of all kinds. You probably do need someone to guide you in the healing process. Personally, I would select someone who does energy work. What emotions are blocking you? Which chakras are blocked? Are your meridians blocked? An energy therapist can help you determine that.

Generally, the idea is to confront events and emotions of the past while at the same time some sort of bodywork opens chakras and meridians, so that the event and emotion no longer will cause blockages. This can be tapping (as in EFT, or emotional freedom technique), or as in NET (neuroemotional technique) or even NAET. With NAET, emotions are even assumed to be tied to food. Imagine the straight conditioning process--you are digesting a piece of corn, and then your ex rapes you. Zowie. What cellular memory will be brought up every time you are exposed to corn? Breaking up all these conditioned responses is probably the way to go.

Look, I had nothing nearly so nuts in my background and I still had to go through the whole process. Life is just crazy like that. Again, forgiveness is not the issue. Releasing anger and other highly charged emotions so that they no longer cause you blockages is the way to go. Please find an energy therapist.

We love you here. You can use the sign of love over all your chakras while you say affirmations. That will help start the healing process. Realize the love you have inside opening each and every chakra. Find some affirmations that resonate with you, while you are doing this. "Even though I withstood great pain during the years (name years, name town or address), I fully and completely love myself, and accept myself." You can get more detailed than that of course. Here is the sign language for love. It can actually unblock emotions, etc.

[Why Syzygy]

11. Forgiveness is not required..

Except for yourself. You admit you feel "sad" that he chose his actions. He used his free will of choice, and now is living with the consequences of his actions. There's nothing vindictive there. If there were no consequences, we would live in complete chaos. Being locked up is a natural consequence of violent behavior in our society. Unless you happen to be a Whitehouse squatter.

Entire books have been written about the causes of "evil". I can speculate, but never come to any firm conclusions. Some people behave in very wicked ways.

If you want a suggestion for a technique to handle YOUR feelings of guilt for your feelings, one that work for me when I found myself needing to 'get over' someone who had sworn me as an enemy. I don't want enemies. I put him in golden flame, violet, rainbow, ruby, I changed the color many times to purify my feelings. I repeated H'oponopono to purify my own heart. I can't make him stop hating, but these things helped me stop feeling his hate within myself. We are not invincible.

[LiberalEsto]

12. Dear Journalgirl

Being abused and having your precious children abused can certainly make you sick with anger and depression. NONE of this is your fault.

I wonder whether you may be feeling some guilt over this. One of my daughters was molested by another child in preschool, and I tortured myself with guilt for a long time, believing I was a bad mother for working and putting my child in preschool and letting this happen. I was afraid to work again for a few years, and guarded my girls like a savage beast. Looking back at something that happened nearly 20 years ago, I realize I couldn't have known something like that would happen, and couldn't have prevented it.

There is no way you caused him to do the things he did -- he acted out of his own sickness and horrible choices. Your being angry at him sounds like a healthy reaction at this stage.

Once you work through the anger and (possibly) guilty feelings and find a state of peace, maybe there will eventually be a time for forgiveness. But don't push yourself if you are not ready. And remember, it is not your fault if you are not ready to forgive.

Concentrate on finding healing your wounds and those of your children, and let time take its course.
Blessings of healing to you in your journey to peace.

Here is a link to a web site that may have some useful information for you:
http://www.brokenspirits.com/

[MorningGlow]

13. Hey you

Check your PM. :hug:

[mntleo2]

14. Forgiveness is a process that often takes YEARS ...

Here is my life's lessons that I have learned about forgiveness and it works for me, but I also deeply respect that we all have our own paths and this might not work for you. However ...

...forgiveness is about finding peace within yourself and keeping in mind that, something like this is just not going to go away. I know it sounds strange, but the first step is forgiving yourself. What did you do, your logical mind will ask? Nothing, but the child inside that we all have, feels responsible. Somehow she is saying that she should have done this, could have done that. She might think that somehow she can "fix" things now that can never be repaired, but in HER mind perhaps she thinks that something could still be done ... when you hear her talking about those things inside you, tell her that there was little she could do, and that she did the best she could and that you love her. Always, if the intentions are out of love, it helps to know that you did the best you could.

The author C.S. Lewis, who wrote the "Chronicles of Narnia" also wrote a book called "Reflections on the Psalms". He said something in there that was life changing for me. He said that when Jesus told us to forgive "70 X 7" times, perhaps it was not only 490 different sins He was telling us to forgive, but that sometimes the exercise of going back again and again to forgive ONE sin 490 times, was also important to keep in mind when trying to learn how to forgive.

I do think the act of forgiveness is an important thing to learn because it does help with the process of healing one's self, but I also know from my own experience that forgiveness is not an easy thing to undertake. As the person you are, who is obviously aware that the entire Universe is Love as well, it might be important to ask that the Universe forgive this man FOR you until you can do it yourself. This has helped me, and believe me, I know personally of what you speak!

Love
Cat In Seattle

[NuttyFluffers]

20. numeric symbolism for 70x7 is greater than actual calculation. :)

a quick primer for numeric significance is easily found in many numerological references. often they are derived from biblical numeric importance, but keep to western mysticism to avoid alternative symbolic interpretation from crossing wires in meaning.

a simple (and rather rudiment) method of understanding this w/o going into cabalistic interpretation would be so: 7 equals great spiritual (divine) mystery. 10 equals completion. 70 is therefore "complete spiritual mystery". now multiply this by another 7, another "spiritual mystery." so it is a statement saying forgiveness equals a great complete spiritual mystery combined with divine mystical power. hope that assessment brings another vibrant interpretation to you!

:D

[mntleo2]

23. Oh wow!

...that is extremely interesting. Somehow I think that the story of the 3 magi (the Ultimate Number is 3, right?) visiting Jesus at birth has significance because they were astrologers. Traditionally one of them came from the middle East (most likely Persia), one came from Asia, and one came from Africa. They most likely met at the oasis in Mesopotamia (Iran/Iraq), which has for thousands of years been a stopover for travelers before making the trip across the wilderness for the Palestine area. I understand that, if they were true magi, they had to know "everything about everything" such as be physicians, knowledgeable botanists/herbalists, naturalists, astronomers, astrologers, as well as truly gifted in the mediumistic arts. One question few ask is, if these men were from different parts of the world, without any modern means of communication, how did they meet? How did they know to simultaneously leave their perspective countries and head toward Bethlehem except that they saw something in the stars and knew something significant was happening? Whether or not the magi really did come to visit, if they didn't exist, why this story? India, where some of the first churches were established under one of the apostles, (I forget which apostle, but actually have friends from there who told me that Christianity has been there from the beginning), India has stories of Jesus visiting and studying under the yogis during his "lost years" and he was also in Africa during his infancy ~ both places where these magi traditionally came from. They were numerologists as well as astrologers, and perhaps this is part of Jesus' schooling as a youth.

Just had to throw that in after your fascinating comment.

Cat In Seattle

[FirstLight]

25. wow...so it takes an advanced soul to be able to do it easily?

that would make sense! I like the number symbolism for sure... completeness is my birth number (I am a 1-10 split)

and I was born 1-1-70

wow, geez, not like THAT symbolizes a lifetime of lessons!
crap. sometimes I wish my Higher Self wasn't such an overachiever!

[NuttyFluffers]

34. well, biblical & birth numerology don't always sync in import, but...

it doesn't really hurt to think of things that way. biblical numerology just makes reading Hebrew/Christian scripture a bit more rewarding is all. things like 40 days and 40 nights become: 4 (corporal plane, material world, stability) and 10 (completion), so "the whole wide world, both that seen in the day and that in the night" "everything that is everything in the entire physical world." kinda fun.

i also don't think forgiveness is ever really easy or even really possible without something "magical" going on. usually it's thought that at some point we have to let go, suspend, and fall into and raise up into a state of transcendence through the help of the divine to truly reach this mystical state. a sort of external assistance has to occur to elevate it to a state of grace (grace: getting what you do not deserve; mercy: not getting what you deserve). so to truly forgive someone, to give them (grace) a total erasure of their wrong against you (forgiveness), requires a mystical ascendance to a state far too difficult for people to really achieve under their own power (a miracle) without a powerful spiritual mystery intervening (the divine).

essentially this reads that each act of forgiveness is its own personal and immediate miracle! :D isn't that sort of exciting! just by the sheer effort of trying to forgive invites the divine forces to assist you in this remarkable moment of transubstantiation (that of turning a wrong against you into nothingness at all, as if it never existed). and by this way of changing one's thinking and applying effort one could "heal thy self" and work their own "miracles" through faith. you become your own "miracle worker" through appealing to the divine for the power of forgiveness! if and when the state of grace comes, you are then set free of the trespass' burden -- you can go on with your life without continually being stuck reworking something horrible in the past. neat, huh? it's like proto-psychotherapy before the discipline even existed, except quite a bit more powerful.

O8)

[I Have A Dream]

15. NOTHING makes you unworthy, Journalgrrl.

Right now, work on forgiving yourself. I sense that there's much for which you blame yourself which is totally undeserved.

In reference to forgiving others, the Universe only expects us to do our best. We can do nothing more than that, and that includes our attempts to forgive others. Do not try to bury your feelings because, as Shallah said, that's when you really start to have problems. One of the really important things that forgiveness gives us is freedom from that person; it cuts the cord tht ties us to that person. To me, forgiveness is something that I do for myself rather than for the other person. However, you've gone through so much trauma that it is totally understandable that it will take an extremely long amount of time and a great deal of work to get to that point. Please be patient and gentle with yourself. Celebrate even the smallest successes. (For example, if you go a day without thinking about him or what he did, celebrate it; it's a success.)

I'm sending you love and light in reference to your efforts to heal yourself. You deserve much credit for doing this work.

:hug::hug::hug:

[I Have A Dream]

19. Oh, I forgot to mention that...

just because we forgive someone doesn't mean that we choose to ever have a relationship in any way with them again. I think that there are many who feel that forgiveness requires that we allow that person back into our lives, which is absolutely not the case from a metaphysical point of view.

[FirstLight]

16. Thank you thank you

...so much love and kindness and good ideas. I am grateful for you all.

It is difficult to take it IN, and receive it. I think I have to re-wire the neural pathways in me to receive the positive and not the negative ...
I know the process is long. It's a bitch when you "think" you have done the work to heal something and then life and whatnot reveals that you are still dealing with it. Not just that, but crippled by it all ...

Went to a women's retreat with my church 2 weeks ago, and the theme was "unmasking" ...not only did we do masks, but the story of the hemmoraging woman was the basis of our talks. It realy hit me in my core. (That feeling of "if I could just TOUCH the healer..." resonates on a really boken hearted level. I understand the isolation and desperate nature of that woman, risking everything to touch the christ...)

Well now that I have made the choice to have the shit stirred again, I get to also make the choice to look at it and work on it. feels like shit, but hey...who said this was easy? oh, yes...I did...when I was Planning this lifetime! lol
Had a friend once say that she could see me in the clasroom before this lifetime being the one who says "ooh, ooh I can do THAT!....Oh! extra credit? sign me up!" meanwhile my humanness is sitting here now going "why ME???"

Thanks for all your compassion, I'l keep you posted as things work themselves out and keep coming up

[mysticalchick]

17. The only way out ...

... is through. You are doing the hardest thing and that which will heal you.

Peace to you.

[Shallah Kali]

29. Take refuge in the Sacred Heart of Jesus

When I read your post just above this reply that phrase popped into my head along with a picture of a giant loving valentine heart with a woman warmly wrapped in a red velvetly blanket in the middle of the heart. I also had a sensation I had as a small child when my Mother and older sister would rock me in a fuzzy blanket like I was in a hammock. I was totally surrounded by the blanket like a clam in it's shell and I felt so engulfed in warmth, safety and completely loved. I think this is intended for you and I hope that somehow you can find that place that gives you that feeling I had then.

Please be gentle with yourself and remember you too are a child of the Universe/Goddess/God and deserve forgiveness and compassion. It can be cursedly hard to let to let good stuff in when one is so used to being treated like garbage so be patient with yourself. It took time for those ruts of habit and thought to be dug into your mind and body and there will be times you fall back in but they *will* get shallower, they *will* easier and easier to climb out of. Personally I find those moments a good time to exercise my cussing vocabulary even if I do remember in those times that there is a way out sooner or later.

[NuttyFluffers]

18. there's a reason forgiveness is divine; it's very hard to actually accomplish.

what you are probably suffering from is lack of releasing this negativity. this will require therapy and great personal effort. forgiveness though requires pushing the evil done to you as far away as possible (and with the divine, anything is possible) -- this includes forgetting and erasing everything about the wrong done to you and starting all over, to only let the love between both come through. it's almost impossible for some people and incredibly difficult in many situations. some situations are harder than others, too. but no, you do not have to get to that high level, forgiveness, so soon, if at all. it would be nice, but it's quite hard.

however, when you do achieve forgiveness, it is an epic level of release and radiance. it's a nice thing to strive for, but perfectly understandable if not achievable for everyone so soon and for every situation.

[davsand]

21. Sometimes "universal law" just doesn't quite cut it, I think.

I'm not saying it isn't valid and I'm not saying it ain't so. I'm saying that, in my experience, it just doesn't always feel like justice--especially when you are the one that has been hurt.

While nothing I have been dealing with in the last few years is anywhere comparable to your past issues, Journalgrrl, I will tell you that I have been dealing with my own issue with carrying anger and pain around. I'm still angry as can be, I'm NOT getting over it, and I'm not sure I ever will choose to, if you want the truth. Frankly, it got bad enough at one point that I made the comment that my goal in life was to outlive my abuser and piss on his grave. (Yes, I really AM that crass.) I can't say my feelings have backed off too much from that point, and that comment was made a couple of years ago.

I'm like you--I see all the higher consciousness out there and I feel like I really do need to get past this. I'm not all into the dogma, but I do generally agree that what you put out in this world you ARE gonna get back sooner or later. (I'd kinda like to reap a harvest of happy rather than a bundle of misery so I at least TRY--ya know?) I have heard that my abuser has suffered after he left my workplace--maybe not enough for my taste, but he has not fared too well. While I do not exactly celebrate his misfortune I do look at it and wonder if maybe, just maybe, he's getting off pretty easy when you consider the level of misery and pain he's brought to me and to so many other people.

I've tried to take what lessons I can from the entire experience, but it has been kinda difficult to take too much positive away from learning how to hate for the first time in my 48 years of life. It is kinds difficult for me to look at the complete erosion of belief I suffered when I realized that people I trusted were not able or maybe even willing to do much to help out when I needed them, and NOT feel anger. I still suffer a lot of stress related illness (still dealing with it a couple of years out) and I am starting to wonder if it ever will just GO away. When the panic attacks still come and when I start to freeze up in specific types of interactions, I worry that I may never be the same again--and THAT pisses me off. He took a lot away from me and I am not sure I will EVER be at a point when I am not gonna feel angry about that.

The one thing I hold onto in the middle of all my anger, however, is the realization that one day when this man had what looked like a medical emergency, I did try and help him. I didn't kick him when he was passed out on the floor, and I did actively seek help for him. I honest to gosh was yelling for somebody to call 911 while I was attempting to administer first aid. Pissed off as I still am after the fact, much as I would love to reserve a condo for this man overlooking Dante's Lake of Fire, I was still human enough to not just let him lay there when he needed help. It might sound like a small thing to a lot of people, but it is huge to me because the f***er did not beat me. I am STILL able to see some good in myself in spite of the anger I carry to this day.

I dunno what to offer you for advice about how to deal with all of this, Journalgrrl. I guess maybe I just want to offer support to you and to tel you that you are not alone.


Laura

[northernlights]

22. forgiveness isn't about him...

it's about you. What you don't want to do is allow resentment of his disgusting and hurtful behavior eat at you and ruin today and tomorrow.

"Universal law says I should let it go. That I can forgive him and understand that his soul was merely performing a "service" by allowing me to clear the karma...blahblahblah"

Baloney. I don't subscribe to that universal law. He did you no service whatsoever; that belief system comes dangerously close to blaming the victim.

We do create our own reality, and you did make a mistake and allow him in your life, creating the painful reality you're dealing with today. But that was an honest mistake on your part, and he was not doing you any service whatsoever. He did you and your daughter a grave disservice. Period.

Focus on healing yourself and your children. You never have to have anything to do with him again; just wash and heal your wounds. Feel as much schadenfreude as you wish at his incarceration. Know that his bad karma will continue to wreck his life. Just don't let him back into yours.

Some day, long past the time your wounds are healed and you've moved on, you'll be able to feel sad for him and his suffering. But you don't have any reason to make it your own, and you don't have to believe that he did you any favors, karmic or otherwise. He did not.

[Lilith Velkor]

24. I wish all prisoners got hot meals *except him.*

Forcing yourself to forgive before you are really ready can make you sick, too.

[FirstLight]

26. OMG! Did you see that thread yesterday?

I made a comment :rofl: about it being a very great thing, because Joe's biggest pet peeve was food not being hot enough. We HAD to eat dinner immediately because that was the best way ...He would make my son eat food that burned his tongue!

I thought it was good that he would have this minor discomfort that would make him crazy! lol
needles to say many flamed me and said I was a vindictive bitch, but I still think it is a beautiful twist of fate to make him miserable, and I AM glad...oh well...

[Lilith Velkor]

27. Yes I did

My older brother used to do the same thing to me, up until I burned his face with it a few times. Sure, I got beaten for it, but my tongue remained unburned. (We get along OK now, because he chose to stop being a dick.)

I don't mind being called a vindictive bitch, because sometimes, being one is appropriate.

[PADemD]

30. Surpressed feelings can make you sick.

Please read "Feelings Buried Alive Never Die..." by Karol K. Truman and "Heal Your Body" by Louise L. Hay.

[FirstLight]

32. This is more of the idea of this OP

I wondered what kinds of illnesses can be caused by this gunk hanging on.... I really want to move through the recurring depression that seems to cripple me and keeps me form being successful or living an easy life...

I have never heard of the Truman book, but Louise Hay's book has been a reference for many years...though I haven't red the chapters for a long time, maybe time to revisit. Oddly enough, I have misplaced the bok since my move in Sept...hmmmm

Could you reference sickesses associated w/depression, PTSD, etc? I'll do a search online, but I sometimes feel beter getting it from someone who is familiar with the context, you know?

[Shallah Kali]

33. Cellular Memory. Overwhelming events live on & exacerabate the hell out of other issues

That said just straight up PTSD can cover most of what you describe. Even mainstream medicine now admits there is a connection between sexual abuse and PMS these days. I believe there was a study that found that most women with fibromalygia were abused but I need to double check that. While there are certain things that *tend* to be tied to sexual abuse and general trauma from what I have seen that it can produce very different problems in different people. In general it increases the severity of existing issues or trigger issues where weaknesses exist such as say an old back injury that acts worse after a later traumatic event even though there was nothing that caused reinjury in that area.

Also with past lives traumas can occur again and again in multiple lifetimes *AND* this does not mean the person was an abuser in other lifetimes either! So unless you recall something specific do not assume that bad things now mean you were *ever* a perp yourself. I know I have lashed myself with that thought many times and so far can't find anything. Maybe I will someday but until that, if ever, turns up I am focusing on dealing with what's in front of me instead beating myself up over assumed what ifs.

[all.of.me]

31. Forgiveness is about how you feel.

It is not saying to him, "It's ok." Because it isn't! What he has done is unacceptable.

Forgiveness is when you no longer feel any anger towards someone who has hurt you. It's when you can say to yourself that it IS ok, that you HAVE let it go.

About four years ago, I was hurt by two of my closest friends in one incident that dragged out for a few weeks. What they did separately was inexcusable. They showed me they were not truly my friends. Our relationships ended, and we all went our separate ways.

One tried to get a hold of me about a year ago. She told a mutual friend that she was sorry, that she realized she'd made a mistake. I was not ready to forgive her. I'm still not ready, four years later. I'm mad about what happened, but I don't dwell on it. It's too far in the past, but it's clear I am not in forgiveness mode yet.

I have seen the other person a few times in passing. He has tried to strike up a conversation, but I just said hello and kept walking. The next few days, this person and the original event were on my mind, my buttons pushed all over again. I'm not ready to forgive him, either. There is still a bad taste in my mouth.

These people are in my past, I have made true friends that would never do what they did, and I may still hold bad feelings towards them, but I do pray for them. If they feel that what they did was an acceptable way to treat people, then they need prayers.

When I do ever feel forgiveness, it will never say that what they did was ok. Forgiveness is not accepting bad behavior. Their actions will never be ok, but I will someday sort it out in my heart and let it go.

My trust was violated. I have no reason to trust these people again, so I do not want them in my life. Ever. I am not obligated to start up with them, either. I am a different person, and we all would probably not fit together anymore anyway.

My 2 cents. My thoughts are with you.