Maddening Leo!

[Why Syzygy]

This has to be about my chart. I can't read it, so ... guesses are welcome.

You always read that Leo is a leader. Well, yes and no. I have never considered myself a leader. More of a loner. However, quite frequently, someone is following me. I should be used to this by now. But, there's a new situation that is driving me nuts.

There was another Leo lady who used to post here. She said she experienced the exact same thing. It goes like this. Someone presents something of a quandary. We make an observation, or offer a solution, or just say something to make things better. Next thing you know, the person is repeating what you've told them, presenting it as their own idea. Neither this lady nor I cared that we never got *credit*. Really don't care. Just a strange experience to happen repeatedly.

Leo supposed to love the stage, too. I'll admit that I used to run for class office just so I could give a speech. And the fashion show our sorority did as a charity event was just about the most fun I had in college. But, I don't seek the main spotlight. Something in my personality makes me more of a back up singer. Not the star. I'm good with that, really.

All this reminds me of something that happened in sixth grade. We were moving, again. My friends at church got together and threw a big surprise going away party. When I saw the party stuff, I was excited. Until I realized it was for ME! I ran out of there and they had to chase me down in the yard and carry me back in. I'm really embarrased by too much attention. CENTER stage is too scary.

In my senior high school yearbook, so many people wrote that I was just full of self confidence. They wish they were too. I couldn't believe it! I was petrified! I attended three different high schools. Never part of any cliques, I drew my friends from a variety of sources. Now, there were times when as I became friends with someone on the fringe, the popular crowd suddenly got interested in that person. I was then left in the dust because I had no desire to be "one of them". That happened to my niece also. Leader, huh? That's a cruel twist.

It is maddening! Is there any advice for Leo who are pestered by constantly being followed? ARRRGG.
I'm afraid I'm going to hurt someone's feelings if I don't deal with these feelings. :(
Or any hope that someday I will just push everyone else aside and step up front and center? :scared:

edit: Oh, yeah. And, I quit piano lessons because I refused to play recital. My mother used to make my sister and I sing duets at church. It was usually fine. But, the time she made us do it at my granddad's church in front of strangers, I was furious! sigh

[Shallah Kali]

1. You certainly has the magnitism of Leo

if not the stereotypical joy in the limelight. Wish I could advise but I have spent most of my life trying to be invisible and being very happy when it worked. I'm supposed to be a gregarious Aquarius but instead am an introvert :shrug:

[Why Syzygy]

2. Know what sucks about magnitism?

It polarizes.

When I was an adult student, I figured out why teachers always liked me. I helped them keep the ball rolling in class, because I'm never afraid of being "wrong". If one starts out "wrong", at least you can get to the right answer. And, that's the purpose of teachers, to bring us to the correct answer.

I didn't realize you are Aquarius, Shallah. Interesting.

[silverweb]

3. Very interesting.

I'm also a Leo with a strong shy/loner streak, and have had similar experiences. My mother used to push me onto center stage and I hated it, refused to cooperate, and ran off every time. She loves being the center of attention, couldn't understand that I loathed it, and would not respect my feelings on the subject.

One of the worst episodes was when I was involved (alone) in an artistic endeavor at about the age of 14. She had a friend on the local paper and wanted this person to do an article about me, complete with pictures. I vehemently said absolutely NOT, but a few days later came home from school to find this person waiting to "interview" me.

I went straight to my room, barricaded the door, and refused to come out until the reporter was gone. Then mother and I had one of our worst fights ever -- she screaming at me, "You're MY daughter and I'll say whatever I want to whoever I want!" Fortunately, she never tried that particular stunt again, though there were others.

You wrote: "We make an observation, or offer a solution, or just say something to make things better. Next thing you know, the person is repeating what you've told them, presenting it as their own idea."

Even scarier, the person actually acts on our suggestion. I've had people do really radical things -- like change careers, move to another state, or marry a particular person -- seemingly because I suggested it or "wished" it aloud. That kind of outcome always frightened me, so I learned to be very, very careful about what I say.

I'm betting you have major planetary aspects in your chart that contradict some parts of the Leo personality. For example, it's my understanding that the Rising Sign (Ascendant) is actually the sign that influences a person's perceived personality (how others see you), rather than the Sun Sign.

My rising sign is secretive, contrary, intense Scorpio -- which fits that concept (and me) perfectly. (And while I don't have my mother's time of birth, I'd bet money that her Rising Sign is probably showboating Leo!)

On another subject... I love your nickname and am positive there's an interesting backstory there.... :hi:

[Why Syzygy]

5. Thank you so much

for sharing that. Alas, I have Leo on the Ascendant too. In many ways, I identify with Jackie O. Obviously not her league, but she was very private.

As a friend, I would have encouraged you to have the article done :D
But, as a mother, I believe in giving kids choices over their own lives. (Leo trait)

For info on the nic, check my journal. Thanks again!

[silverweb]

9. Double Leo... wow.

Well, you can bet there are strong influences somewhere in your chart to account for your need for privacy. I'm not learned enough in the art to know more than what I read, but I know others here are. I'm sure they'll have much insight to share.

As for the incident described, one of my friends did say I should have let the reporter interview me. What she didn't understand was that my personal feelings and privacy were never ever respected by my mother. She immediately blabbed every confidence I ever made the mistake of sharing with her, she proclaimed my "sins" to everyone she talked to, and she treated me like it was my duty to be her personal little puppet, performing on command to make her look/feel good.

She's an old woman now and I'm not far behind her, but nothing much has changed in the nature of our power struggle -- only that I now ignore her rantings, no longer engage with her or let her bait me, and steadfastly go my own way. That's why I moved to the opposite coast almost 30 years ago. There was no way I'd ever have my own life unless I did. And she still complains that she just can't understand why I'm not who she thinks I should be.

A mother's job is to nurture and guide her children, not try to force them into molds of her own design.

PS - Forgot to mention... I love your journal entry about syzygy!! :D

[Why Syzygy]

11. wow.

My mom was like that too. She told the girls at church (we went to school together too) when I started my period! She also revealed a humiliating incident that some boys at school did to me to all the girls! And made a joke about it! She was always involved in our church group. Gawd. No privacy. That could affect someone's attitude about being left the hell alone too.

Have you ever experienced "knowing" about something cutting edge before it became mass? Since I learned to recognize this, it has provided some entertainment. A lot has to do with collective consciousness. It started with the humiliating incident with the boys. One of them put some wrapped presents in my locker. One was a dog collar. :( So, my mom told the girls they should start a fad wearing dog collars! Not very long after that, chokers became the latest fad. hmm?

It's very painful when one's mother doesn't realize one is a separate human.

Do you have a birth chart?

[silverweb]

12. Shared experiences.

You know exactly what I'm talking about with the mother thing, then. The one useful thing my mother taught me was what kind of mother I did not want to be. My grown children have experienced their grandma's rants and power trips first hand, and tell me I did a pretty good job of not being like her. :)

Have you ever experienced "knowing" about something cutting edge before it became mass?
Yes! Several times. I chalked it up to the reality that if I could think of an idea, there were bound to be a few million other people who would come up with the same idea.

It even happened with a simple invention I designed once. I did all the drawings, but then put it away because I didn't know how to proceed to the next steps of patenting/manufacturing, etc, without having a few thousand dollars to invest.
A few months later, I saw "my invention" in a TV ad.

Another experience that frightened me occurred when a friend described a vivid and disturbing dream in great detail -- and I had had the exact same dream just a couple of nights before but never told anyone about it.

I've also had a couple of prophetic dreams. Always vivid and fully remembered, and always coming true within 2-3 months. I'm grateful they've been very, very rare.

I do have a birth chart, which was made and interpreted years ago by a dear friend who is a very good retired astrologer. It's on paper in a file somewhere. Leo Sun, Scorpio Ascendant, Capricorn Moon. That's all I remember for certain at the moment.

Have to get to work now. TTYL!

[Why Syzygy]

13. Yeah.

Has a lot to do with collective consciousness. Probably *everyone* has those stories.

I think what's maddening is that I wish I were more of the stereotypical limelight Leo. Others (whatever signs) seem to really enjoy it. A lot of the confusion, no doubt, comes from the over emphasis on sun sign, which astrologers hate.

You can do a complete chart online @ http://www.astro.com

Get to work! :rofl:

[Missy Vixen]

6. Silverweb, I'm a Leo with Scorpio rising, too

I have lots of friends, but I am a bit of the "lone wolf".

[silverweb]

10. Nicetameetcha, Missy Vixen!

I have many "friendly acquaintances," but only a very small handful of cherished friends, the kind I feel safe confiding in. Part of that is surely Scorpio, but I'm certain part of it also is just having experienced too much personal betrayal.

Also, I love living alone. When visiting away from home, I still need a ration of solitude like I need air to live, and getting home is always a profound relief and joy.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Wouldn't the influence of Leo depend upon your whole chart?

Now the experts here can correct me, but I read somewhere that it is the rising sign that has a great influence on the outer personality (and appearance). Now I'm an Aquarius, but I like to start things, have been a leader, and don't mind being in the spotlight--and guess what my rising sign is! :)


Could be that your sun sign is really in a relatively weak position, and is overshadowed by other aspects of your chart.

[Matariki]

7. Just what I was thinking Ayeshahaqqiqa

Where is you moon Why Syzygz? And Mercury and Venus? Chances are, they're in Virgo or Cancer.

I'm a Virgo (Sun, Mercury, Venus & Pluto) and I have many of the same complaints. People taking credit for my ideas, *hating* being in the limelight, etc.

[Why Syzygy]

8. aha.

This is what I was hoping for.

Mercury = Cancer 12th . Venus = Virgo 2nd.
I think they are considered the late degrees? 24.37.20 and 25.00.37
And those two houses are about private matters, right?
So, Mercury/Cancer 12th would mean I like to hide who I am?
Venus/Virgo 2nd .. hmm
Moon = Libra 3rd

Thanks for your help Kineta/Matariki :D You're good!

[Dover]

14. I've known two Leo men (one a friend, the other I dated just after college).

Both were leaders in their field of work and admired. It seemed to come to them
naturally, effortlessly, and though neither seemed to even notice their effect
I know for a fact that at least the man I dated was aware of it. In his own way he felt pride in his accomplishments and unphased by the accolades because at some level he expected it.

BOTH of them required having a 'den' to go to that was all their own.
And strangely enough when they married, after some time went by, BOTH ended up buying the house next door and spending much of their time apart but nearby their spouse and kids. Too funny.

I wouldn't say they were shy, but they didn't have to put any effort into attracting others so could just hang back and it would come to them. So they weren't 'asking' for attention, but DID have the feeling deep down that they were deserving of it. And they required their own space and 'expected' their families to accomodate them.

[Matariki]

15. Ah, I never thought of the desire for personal space as a particularly Leonine trait

but I think you are absolutely right. My Leo boyfriend and I often talk about buying side by side duplexes as the optimal arraignment. We've been dating for 6 years and we both love our personal space too much to make much effort toward our stated goal of buying a house together. At minimum, we agree that we need our own bedrooms that we can invite each other to most nights ;-)

[Why Syzygy]

16. Neither have I ever considered the "den"

analogy. Certainly fits. And, on further reflection, the realization that when I was in my chosen profession of wife and mother, I was the leader. But, I never thought of myself that way.

[lildreamer316]

17. I've read the whole thread..

and as a Leo I can identify with some of what you are experiencing. I have Gemini rising, however, which really gives people the impression that I am 'flighty' or kinda blonde..which I am actually, so it plays ok; lol. If any of you met me in real life you'd probably wonder who the hell you have been talking to this whole time online.

My mother exhibited a lot of the traits all of you are discussing - but she used the revealing my secrets thing to embarrass me into what she perceived as 'good behavior'; which enraged me to no end. I vowed passionately to not repeat that behavior; for sure.

As for people following me; I don't tend to notice it; but it seems that later on I get evidence that someone took me more seriously than I had imagined. I love the stage; being center does not bother me as such; but I do not actively seek it against other people; only on my own time - if that makes any sense at all. I do desperately need an outlet for that; and the dancing serves me so very well there. I get six minutes, four or five times a night, at complete exposure. I am nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs before I get up there; but as soon as I am in the light..it's on, baby. I do feel, as you described the male Leos did, that I 'deserve' it...to me, EVERYONE deserves their time to shine! But I am stronger, as someone said, as a backup, than as the main attraction.

Actually, that is becoming my challenge now..I am planning a career move whereby I am to become more of the main(mane?) attraction than I had been previously. I am finding it more of a challenge, now that I've been hiding away in my den for a few years taking care of my mate and my cub. I am not certain in my abilities; but I have always projected confidence in myself. I know who I am; and I suspect that you do too..which is what some people interpret as confidence. We don't tend to question our basic instincts that often. Maybe that's what people are responding to?

I find that I tend to intimidate people without ever meaning to. I don't have a lot of friends. People often try to overpower me with their personalities when they first meet me; and upon discovering that this does not faze me at all; they retreat...and I never hear from them again.

I don't know if any of this is relevant to what you are saying, and please forgive me for the very Leonine trait of talking about my self too much. I hope you are able to find some peace in this situation. I know being a Leo can just..be a pain in the ass sometimes. But then it's so worth it, too.

Oh! and the alone time..I HAVE to have it! I get pissy and growly if husband does not let me do my stuff in my own time; and if he's home too much it irritates the shit out of me. So yes, that is very on.

[Why Syzygy]

18. Oh, yeah!

You would be the perfect stereotypical Leo! You're the stage Lady! I adore Gemini energy.
Lil'd, please stop apologizing for talking about yourself. I enjoy your input so very much, and I know others here do too. I'm so glad you posted. It's all relevant.

Lil'd.. even though people abandon when we show that we can't be led around, don't you find that when someone needs a Lion roar, to set things 'right', they know who to count on? I get a kick out of the bravery part. I'll accept that challenge almost any day of the week.

edit: And the dramatic part.. Got that one covered too ;) Really, I have to keep the temperature turned down a lot because full steam is way too hot for bystanders.

[eilen]

19. Leo, Aries rising, Sag moon

but lots of air signs, grand square....

I tend to diffuse my energies, it is hard for me to focus but when I do, I can be very effective.

I totally need my downtime/me time as well as my rest. Any shortage and I'm growling at people and supremely irritated at my dh (who is also a Leo). Our son is a Scorpio. I just give too much energy away to people and need more time to recharge. I have to say, I never feel lonely or have issues about being alone.

I do some of the things you mention, having ideas, etc. lots of enthusiasm but my Aries charge ahead poops out so I need to have a partner that has major follow-through as a part of their personality. But when I say something, I feel I have to back up the integrity of my word so I try to be careful with what I verbally commit to.

I also have the horrible curse of saying socially awkward things without thinking them through -- I don't mean anything by it but it comes out and I feel like an idiot-- generally they are somewhat blunt things even though I truly am good at being tactful and discreet but just have had many people in my life that need to be hit over the head-- they just don't take hints. Perhaps this is also an Aries trait.

I can be telepathic sometimes. I can "hook in" and "see" people. I can't really get hung up on how a person looks once I've "hooked in"-- it is just not relevant. But it makes me feel awkward because I have/feel this intimacy that they have no concept it exists, which makes my interactions with them feel odd. Although, my friends love it because they know I "get" them.

Being born in a positive sign, I tend to react to things like my father-- I get very internally nervous and can get horrible stomach upsets, sweats etc. when anxious. I notice that my mind/thoughts quickly go to blame others when something crappy happens but I am able to logically reject those thoughts (my father never took responsibility for anything unfortunate in his life). I don't relish or seek the limelight but do like to be an integral key to the success of the production and expect to be recognized/respected for that. Someone else can be center stage.

I am very creative and need to be able to express it. Not doing that is not an option and I become very depressed if I can't. I have big issues when people try to control me, I push back.

My relationship with my mother is very close but she did not try to run my life or live through me. My parenting style leans to "free range" and I really feel like I have this gift or that I was meant to parent him and help safe guard and assist him to develop into the fantastic person he is.

The pride thing is what screws me up.

[Why Syzygy]

20. The pride thing..

Was thinking about your post, and came to a couple of realizations. The 'self confidence' which people have noticed is more about bravery. Requires no confidence whatsoever. I AM pretty fearless most of the time. When I sold RE back in the 80s, I did a few daring do's. Once I made an appointment and went to see some big muckity muck guy about a deal. He wasn't interested, but he said he was impressed that I was brave enough to approach him with it. That sticks with me. It isn't the same as "confidence", however.

I've always been very sensitive. Age has mellowed it quite a lot, but it is still so obvious to me. So, that same bravery keeps me from asking for condolences except from those who are very close to me. Then I just outright ask for it, no theatrics there. When I find myself in a situation where I'm hurt and cannot ask, that's when I want to bite someone's head off. That's where I was when writing the OP. I knew I was going to make a bloody mess, and did NOT want to do so. I'm really glad I didn't.

I speak bluntly too. And, like you, the integrity of my word means more to me than just about anything. I was never one to get in an argument and have to apologize later for saying stuff I "didn't mean". Apologies are about whatever else was involved.
Typing is more difficult to control :evilgrin: *excuse*

What about pride do you find challenging?

[eilen]

21. Pride-- I didn't realize it until I was able to separate the emotional

responses-- it effects me in a couple of different ways.

In one way (that I have to watch) it can sustain a rigidity of thought and lock you into a course of action. A great example of this is George Bush's inability or refusal to alter his objectives, actions and opinion on the Iraq war. His gut was telling him not to admit defeat (politically)-- that he was wrong.

When an idea or action was incorrect, it is okay to change your mind and admit I am wrong, especially in the face of mounting evidence. No one will question my competency and professionalism. Leos in general, dislike being looked at as a fool or as a "bad guy". While I don't necessarily desire to be "the leader"--perhaps not wanting the commitment or responsibility, there is a part of me that believes my example is the exemplar and it is hard to humble my "reputation" or cred. I can often get into situations where black & white thinking/judgement comes very easily and I have to back up and suspend making a decision on how I feel about something-- allow events and interactions to evolve.

So, when I find myself feeling defensive, I look back to see if pride is playing a role. If it is, then I can reframe the experience and maintain the relationship in good humor-- learn something. If it is not, it is possible that someone is looking to dump on me (emotional abuse) and I learn to keep my distance from them. The ability to discern that it is possible for another person to wish ill on me from their own motivations took some time. I used to feel defensive and then take blame because I would get very emotional about it. Now I analyze it more and am not so quick to buy into that it "was my fault".

I also have to give myself patience and time to learn things. I tend to expect myself to pick things up quickly and perfectly--then beat myself up when I make mistakes.

[Why Syzygy]

22. I have a confession to make.

It dawned on me today as I typed a particular turn of phrase that I had lifted off another DUer a few weeks ago.
("savor the irony") . lol . Which surely fits this observation.

I am The World's Best at stealing other people's ideas!



That's what allows us to function as a society I suppose. Combining awareness.