Positive replys only - we want a separate group for astrology called

[2Design]

political and mundane astrology

We want to take astrology out of the title and out of this forum. We want a place where those who are drawn to astrology can come find astrology.

Although this forum has interest in other topics, we feel it detracts from the science of astrology and brings it into a perception we prefer people not have of astrology.
____________________________________________________________________

We need 10 people with positive replys - the rest need not reply here but can start their own thread

The rules for a getting new group follow

________________________
Skinner ADMIN (1000+ posts) Fri Nov-12-04 11:44 AM
Original message
How to Suggest a DU Group
Edited on Wed Apr-27-05 07:10 AM by Skinner

One of the best things about DU Groups is that members have the ability to suggest new groups to the Administrators of Democratic Underground. If you wish to suggest a group, please follow this procedure:

1. Start one discussion thread in the forum of your choice to tell people about your idea for a DU Group.

2. In that thread, you must get responses from at least ten DU members who agree to be active participants in the suggested DU Group. All ten members to respond must have donor stars.

3. In that thread, members must agree on a proposed mission statement for the DU Group.

4. When enough members have signed on to join the group and have agreed on a proposed mission statement, one member must officially suggest the DU Group to a DU Administrator (Skinner, EarlG, or Elad), by sending an email. Please be sure to include a link to the thread where members have discussed the proposed Group.

5. The Administrators will consider the request and make a decision. The Administrators will either 1) Accept the Group as it is proposed, 2) Deny the Group outright, or 3) Ask for changes to the Group or its mission statement which would be necessary for its approval.

6. Once the suggested Group has been accepted by the Administrators, the Administrators will create a new DU Group in the "DU Groups" Category forum, and pin the mission statement of that Group to the top of that Group's forum.

If you are considering a DU Group on a controversial topic, the Administrators would appreciate if you contacted us before collecting your ten members, so we may discuss any sensitive issues. This courtesy will increase the chance that your Group is approved. Also, please be aware that proposed Groups that are redundant with existing DU Forums are unlikely to be approved.

If you have any questions, please contact a forum Administrator.

Skinner

[Pallas180]

1. I promise to write articles on Political & Mundane for a site that

is only for Political & Mundane Astrology.

I'm for it.

[tlcandie]

18. Got your back, Pallas...

Sorry, I'm in Texas helping my terminally ill father with his last days. Very tired and worn out, not to mention stressed. Got the e-mail and came over to post for you.

Best of luck to you all!

:hug:

[Pallas180]

20. God Bless TLCandie - know that you are doing a wonderful thing &

that you will have no guilt nor regrets. Take time to go outside, breathe some fresh air deeply and then let it go .

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pallas180]

39. wow, I just got on at 12:15 - what were those deleted stuffs?

too bad.

[2Design]

43. it was me - I posted and did not mean to - so I wrote delete

and they went and did the rest -

[emcguffie]

128. I missed all the brouhaha --

-- or the beginning of it. Can you tell me what happened?

[Desertrose]

2. Work up your mission statement to that effect

You may want to check in with Skinner too and see if he is open to the idea.

best wishes :)

DR

[Pallas180]

3. There are people looking for this thread, so please let's keep

it up top.

Thank you for your concern Desertrose. A number of moderators including Skinner have been contacted.

[BuelahWitch]

4. I'm for it

:hi:

[Mrs_Beastman]

5. Astrology is a lost science that deserves

it's own area. :thumbsup:

[Pallas180]

86. thank you, I agree with that -

it's a lifetime study and there are so many branches of it...it would be more than one lifetime to accomplish.

I only do horary, electional, and traditional. I have to admire those who can do vedic, uranian, heliocentric....and so many others I couldn't even begin to approach!

[Castilleja]

6. Sounds cool to me

Oh, and :kick:

[anitar1]

7. ' I'am for it too. This would be great.

[Cha]

8. I would love to have just an Astrology

Forum!

I like the other New Age Info, too..but Astrology is my Main Interest.

Thanks for trying to set this up, 28erl. :)

[Pallas180]

123. self delete

error

[JPace]

9. Count me in....

I would love an all astrology site, thanks Pallas for cluing me in.:hi:

[PinkTiger]

10. Yes! Excellent idea.

As a student of astrology, I would welcome this. I, too, have a desire for a straightforward astrology forum that discusses the political and mundane aspects of the craft. This is definitely needed. Some of the topics on this board topic are on topics that make us look a bit silly, I think.

So count me in. I'm all for it.

[Pallas180]

11. Autorank e mailed me that he's in, but where are you AUTORANK?

:hopping:

:hi:

[Pallas180]

12. Some of you know that I write columns for another astrological site &

There is absolutely no reason why if any of you who are astrologically proficient, but who have never written an astro article, couldn't do so in and for the new Astrological forum.

Go ahead and try your hand at writing an astrology column for this forum.

[autorank]

13. autorank checking in, will follow pallas anywhere...

:patriot:

[jrthin]

14. Count me definitely *for it*. nt

[Matilda]

15. Great - this has my vote too.

Look forward to it.

[lancdem]

16. I'm in!

:)

[Cha]

17. Grreat!

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Count me in Skinner

[Pallas180]

21. Hey Nadin. Where ya been. So nice to see all your "faces" back again :)

I guess 28ERL will put up a mission statement for us to look over
pretty soon.

[Trillo]

22. I vote "Yes." n/t

[davsand]

23. I'll support an Astrology group.

Sign me up, please. Maybe this way we can get a few more of the old regulars back and active again...

:hi:


Laura

[2Design]

24. Will post mission statement Wednesday late morning or early

afternoon

I want to pull together the right words and will then post
At that point we need agreement on the mission of new forum and then will present to du administrators for consideration

anyone with input - pm me and I will work it in

looking at most mission statements they are 5 lines or less

Thanks to all who have already posted and check back Wednesday

[Jade Fox]

25. I'm up for an astrology group. n/t

[hippiechick]

26. Yes !

O8) :hi: :hug:

[NEOBuckeye]

27. Yes! Count me in!

[NEOBuckeye]

107. Please scratch my vote above

After careful consideration, I'm abstaining.

[splat]

28. I'll even unlurk!

I too miss the richness of the old meeting room discussions, with enough astrologers to offer something interesting in every post.

[LunaC]

29. Raising my hand from the back of the room

Please count me in.

Recently I've been mulling a post about RX Saturn tap dancing all over the Shrubinator's first house planets, and the influences surrounding impeachment. The good news: It WILL happen. The bad news: We'll have to wait until early summer 2007.

Namaste!

[jbnow]

30. I vote yes but

political and mundane astrology only? I see astrology only...because the complication would be if we wanted to talk about more general astrology does that go in new forum or here?
A post about an eclipse and the Saros cycle...but not researching the mundane charts... or whatever, does that fit?

[SpiralHawk]

31. Yes - add my vote for an astrology forum

eom

[2Design]

33. Mission Statement - please post your acceptance to this thread or discuss

Astrology forum to explore, discuss, and write about the art and science
of astrology in all its aspects as it relates to people, places, things,
and events in the world.

This place is intended for positive discourse and not to argue the
merits or validity of the art and science of astrology.

[Cha]

35. I'll say Amen to that!

I like it..short and sweet!

[Pallas180]

37. MISSION STATEMENT

I think a bit more definition has to be added to the mission statement 28 ERL because DU could turn it down the way it is written.

Astrology forum to explore, discuss, and write about the art and science of astrology in all its aspects as it relates to people, places, things,and events in the world. This place is intended for positive discourse and not to argue the merits or validity of the art and science of astrology.

The way it is written above I dont think will pass muster with administrators because it is what Astrology Spirtualy Alternative Med was supposed to be, (and turned out not to be)so they will call it a duplicate.

We started out asking for POLITICAL & MUNDANE ASTROLOGY FORUM & I suggest we stick with that, which covers political matters which is what the orginal astrology forum was years ago, and mundane covers all the worldly mattersincluding earthquakes, fires, volcanoes, astrocartography or astromapping, horary etc etc,.

My suggestion for a mission statement in draft form is ( and please add or omit to it fellow astrologers) , is:

POLITICAL & MUNDANE ASTROLOGY FORUM

"This DU Astrology Forum is for those who wish to discuss or post matters having to do with Political or Mundane Astrology, i.e. world events, political events or personages, New Moons, Full Moons, Solstices, Eclipses and all related astrological events on earth or in and under the heavens. All types of astrology will be welcome including but not limited to traditional, vedic, uranian, horary, astromapping and/or any other established method in the art and science of Astrology. Participants who wish to contribute Astrological articles they author on current or past topics and events, or post other astrological articles for discussion will be welcome to do so, as long as such articles encourage further discussion of astrological aspects.

This group is intended as a positive place for those who desire a deeper discussion of these stated topics and is not intended as a place to argue the merits, validity or belief in the art and science of astrology.

[Matilda]

81. I like this statement.

No ambiguity, and makes it clear that this is a serious forum,
not a trivial fortune-telling site.

Astrology in all its forms is a huge subject, and deserving of its
own forum, IMO.

[Pallas180]

38. 28ERL - do you think that we need to be more specific and not so general?

in the mission statement.

my thought is to return the astrology threads to the higher level that they used to be , and I worry that if you leave is so generally
we will end up or even compete with the same type of forum that Ast, Alternative Healing etc is now.

So I have written up a more precise draft for everyone to add their 2 cents to.

[2Design]

40. IMHO - simple and short is usually better -

When businesses write a mission statement, they are not verbose. What you wrote is like trying to nail it down to to the precise grain on a piece of wood. I can understand but have a different view point.

The astrology threads will return to an astrologer level just by being in their own forum. I have less of a need to control exactly how they manifest.

Astrology as a word is precise

[Pallas180]

41. 28ERL - True I have tried to nail it down to ASTROLOGY ONLY in

the view that we neither want to compete with the other thread nor
end up with all matter of subjects other than astrology as has done on the other thread.

I admit I am wordy(verbose) but they are still only three sentences.

And I also am strongly pointing out that I think if you submit a mission statement as you have written, the answer that you will get back is that , it is not necessary because astrology is covered by
the "astrology, healing, alternative medicine forum. Isn't that what you had heard before?

Thus the need for Political & Mundane Astrology Forum, and nailing it down.

I really want to see this Political & Mundane Astrology to succeed ERL. And by the response onlline and by private e mail, the astrologers who have left want it too.

[2Design]

42. we will build it and they will come

considering we have over 24 people already who are interested this will happen

let's give others a chance to voice their opinions on the mission statement

let go a little - it is progressing - let it flow

[Pallas180]

44. OK 28ERL - ASTROLOGERS - help out on mission statement?

please add your suggestions.

Time is going short and we'd like to put this request in today if at all possible.

[Trillo]

80. Mission Statement--reworded and revised for consideration

3) ASTROLOGY FORUM
This forum is for those who wish to discuss the art and science of astrology as it relates to political, economic, and social changes in the world. All types of geocentric or heliocentric astrology will be welcome. This includes but is not limited to Western or Eastern traditional forms as well as experimental hybrids. Participants who wish to post new astrology articles or contribute to existing topics are welcome as long as they encourage the further discussion of astrology.

This place is intended for positive discourse and not to argue the merits or validity of the art and science of astrology.

[Pallas180]

82. S.T. - if Political & Mundane title is left out does it leave out earthqua

earthquakes, volcanoes, earth changes, astrocartography/astromapping and such which I think falls under Mundane?

[Trillo]

83. I was trying for simplicity. Political and Mundane in the title is fine

with me, although they tend to add emphasis to "traditional".

I'd really like to see a centuries old rift healed.

I also had a thought that earthquakes, volcanoes, earth changes, etc., could come under the classification of "physical", so I added one word (keeping in mind I'm certainly flexible on the title):

3) ASTROLOGY FORUM
This forum is for those who wish to discuss the art and science of astrology as it relates to political, economic, physical, and social changes in the world. All types of geocentric or heliocentric astrology will be welcome. This includes but is not limited to Western or Eastern traditional forms as well as experimental hybrids. Participants who wish to post new astrology articles or contribute to existing topics are welcome as long as they encourage the further discussion of astrology.

This place is intended for positive discourse and not to argue the merits or validity of the art and science of astrology.

[Pallas180]

84. S.T. - thank you for adding "physical" - have you seen

post #70 by J Pace who makes a very excellent (and important) point ?

as a matter of fact more than one important point.

Will our wording scare away those who are students of astrology?

And by the way, it is so nice to have you back. You're an astrologer that even long time astrologers can learn from.

[Trillo]

87. I had missed post #70 by JPace.

I need to read the whole forum slowly, maybe tomorrow morning. I agree with JPace. By the way, Pallas, I borrowed heavily from your version.

"Will our wording scare away those who are students of astrology?" No. Good question. I don't know. It shouldn't.


3) POLITICAL ASTROLOGY FORUM
This forum is for those who wish to discuss the art and science of astrology as it relates to political, economic, physical, and social changes in the world. All types of geocentric or heliocentric astrology will be welcome. This includes but is not limited to Western or Eastern traditional forms as well as experimental hybrids. Participants who wish to post new astrology articles or contribute to existing topics are welcome as long as they encourage the further discussion of astrology.

This place is intended for positive discourse and not to argue the merits or validity of the art and science of astrology.

[tlcandie]

49. I'm throwing in my support here!!!

Sorry, but no time to post suggestions... I know you understand, but let's get this going!!

:grouphug:

[Mandate My Ass]

36. Aye

That's a great idea! :-)

[Pallas180]

45. Kicking, cause we are asking for opinions on the Mission Statements above

and need you astrologers' input.

There are two suggested mission statements:

1)a simple Mission Statement by 28ERL

2)and a more exacting Mission Statement by Pallas

If any of you have a different mission statement, or want to add or delete, please post it, or say yes to one or the other.

I'm for the more complex and precise of "Political & Mundane Astrology Forum" in order not to be considered a duplicate of
the astrololgy, spiriutality, alternative healing forum currently in existence.

We really want the opinions of those who have signed up above.

Thanks.

[JPace]

70. I am presuming that serious students of astrology are wanted

for their opinions on this issue...hope I'm right because I am giving one here.
I think the more detailed mission statement emphasizing "Political" astrology will help Skinner in his decision making. We are different in that most other topics in our shared forum are totally unrelated to politics. Some of the titles I read today are:

Hermetic Philosophy
movies
deja
Reiki
Tarot
UFOs
Seed people

and the list goes on and on. While these are certainly worthwhile topics for those interested they do not add much to political interests which are after all the main focus of DU and the one thing that brings all of us together. "Political Astrology" is just that, the focus is apparent and deserves its own room where not only those interested can post but those occasional curious people who want to know what the stars have to say about political events can come and ask questions without searching us out.

[Pallas180]

73. ABSOLUTELY JPACE...exactly " The Main Focus of DU

If you don't mind, I think that you should email your thoughts on that to Skinner himself, with the emphasis on the fact that it is
Political & Mundane Astrology.

You put that together so well and succinctly.

"We are different in that most other topics in our shared forum are totally unrelated to politics. Some of the titles I read today are:

Hermetic Philosophy
movies
deja
Reiki
Tarot
UFOs
Seed people

and the list goes on and on.

While these are certainly worthwhile topics for those interested they do not add much to political interests which are after all the main focus of DU and the one thing that brings all of us together. "Political Astrology" is just that, the focus is apparent and deserves its own room where not only those interested can post but those occasional curious people who want to know what the stars have to say about political events can come and ask questions without searching us out"

[Trillo]

88. Hi JPace, I made some revisions to Pallas180's

wording. Borrowed a little from 28erl. The changes were editorial more than much else, a little logistical streamlining, with one major change, the inclusion of heliocentric astrology.

My revisions are in post #80, 83, and 87.

[autorank]

46. I have read the Mission Statement & I concur!

[Pallas180]

58. Autorank, which Mission Statement do you concur with? 1 or 2

1) ASTROLOGY FORUM
Astrology forum to explore, discuss, and write about the art and science of astrology in all its aspects as it relates to people, places, things, and events in the world.

This place is intended for positive discourse and not to argue the merits or validity of the art and science of astrology.

OR

2)POLITICAL & MUNDANE ASTROLOGY FORUM

"This DU Astrology Forum is for those who wish to discuss or post matters having to do with Political or Mundane Astrology, i.e. world events, political events or personages, New Moons, Full Moons, Solstices, Eclipses, any and all related astrological events on earth or in and under the heavens. All types of astrology will be welcome including but not limited to traditional, vedic, uranian, horary, astromapping and/or any other established method in the art and science of Astrology. Participants who wish to contribute Astrological articles they author on current or past topics and events, or post other astrological articles for discussion will be welcome to do so, as long as such articles encourage further discussion of astrological aspects.

This group is intended as a positive place for those who desire a deeper discussion of these stated topics and is not intended as a place to argue the merits, validity or belief in the art and science of astrology.

[Pathwalker]

47. We are currently in a fourth quarter Moon, with the New moon

arriving on July 6th, dimson's birthday. The moon goes void of course at 3:57 AM edt. tomorrow. I would like to respectfully request that if a New Group is formed, that it be done so at a CHOSEN TIME that will allow for an easier flow of energies for all involved.

How is the timing for all this - Astrologically speaking?

[2Design]

48. Thursday is not a good day - suggestions for day to start are

welcome. We definitely want a good birth day and time, if at all possible. I am depending on the more advanced astrologers here to give us input on birth data. Not Thursday because I have already heard that is not a good day. I heard it might not be good until July 8th

We need at least 10 to agree with mission statement or propose another which can be discussed or agreed on before moving forward. I think discourse is good and will help us not rush into this and have a thriving community where ever it lands.

[Pathwalker]

51. I didn't think a 4th quarter moon was good for starting new

enterprises either, but for finishing up previous projects one has already started. Also, starting it on dimson's birthday just doesn't sound right, does it? There are a few really good transits that day though, so perhaps that would override it being his b'day. I'll leave that to the Astrologers to decide. I just want a truly auspicious time for everyone, so it will work out for all involved.

[2Design]

53. Appreciate your comments that both groups have a good new

beginning. It will be good to find a good time for both. Thanks for your thoughtfulness in considering the whole picture and not just the parts.

This sounds like we are working toward moving forward positively at this time. Great!

[Pallas180]

50. Please Notorious Bohemian

The astrologers here are taking care of this matter and have looked at charts. We have chosen times that look appropriate.

28 ERL asks that those who are for a separate Astrology forum post here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but dont you oppose a separate forum?

[Desertrose]

52. I thought you wanted to hear from astrologers?

or is it only astrologers who agree 100% with you?

Just curious.

I thought NB was offering good astrological advice.

[Pallas180]

55. Desertrose, are you now for a separate astrology forum?

or are you looking for an altercation?

Just curious.

[Desertrose]

57. You betcha. I have been for one for awhile...you can check my posts

I can see it would be better for everyone.

Am even working on a new mission statement.

Why would I want an altercation? just calling things as I see them.

[Pathwalker]

54. Pallas, all I am asking for is that a time be chosen

that is most auspicious for EVERYONE. Since this is what Astrologers DO, how is this request out of bounds? Are you telling me I can't post here? There is already enough rancor, I don't want to add to it, but this forum was created at a bad moment, astrologically speaking, and I would prefer to not repeat that mistake. So, I am glad to hear it's "taken care of", and will be done better the second time around.

[Pallas180]

56. Gee, Notorious Bohemian, who chose the first time for the current forum?

I know I was told it had already been decided...so I didnt help choose it.

Just curious.

[Pathwalker]

59. Skinner chose it, apparently.

I didn't, if that's what you're inferring. I wasn't here either that night.

[Pallas180]

60. I forget now. Are you an astrologer Not Bohem? & Desertrose?

and how will the chart/time of start of an Astrology Only Forum have anything to do with the existing Spiritual,Astrology,Healing Forum whose time is already up and chosen?

Please explain what you propose in the choosing of a chart for a new astrology forum in relation to the existing forum.

I dont see how one affects the other.

[Pathwalker]

61. This group will be renamed, and probably at the same time.

So, they will defintely affect each other.

[Pallas180]

62. Have you contacted Skinner about

renaming the current forum?

[Pallas180]

64. There you go, Notorious Bohemian, Desertrose in a post below

says she's an astrologer for 35 years, so I'm sure she can pick the most auspicious time by electional astrology to re-intoduce the current forum. What are you going to re-introduce it as?
And how's your mission statement going?

Have you or Desertrose contacted Skinner about a new name for the existing forum and a new mission statement?

Personally I liked someon'e suggestion: The Metaphysical Community...
I thought that covered an awful lot of the titles that are there now.

[Desertrose]

66. Not what I said at all Pallas

I specifically said I was NOT nor do I claim to be an astrologer...that I have STUDIED for over 35 years. Not the same thing.

You do tend to put your own spin on things.

[Pallas180]

68. Gee, I thought that when you said you studied astrolgoy for 35 years

that you would be an astrologer.

Can you make an electional chart for Notorious Bohemian?

[Desertrose]

63. So...are we not allowed to post to this unless we have astro credentials?

I have studied astrology for over 35 years...but I do not label myself as such. I have taken classes and even attended a UAC conference or two but I do not call my self an astrologer as that is only a small part of who I am.

So why should you care...is it that important to you to be able to label me as an astrologer or not an astrologer??

As far as concern for a chart for the new astrology forum...we only want the best for it. Has nothing to do with whatever forum remains. Is that alright with you? that we just wish you guys the best??

and really...isn't everything connected?? I would think that if you do well then it is good for everyone else.

[Pallas180]

65. Actually if you are talking about renaming the current forum, it

might not be appropriate to be posting on a thread for a new forum.

Didn't Cleita start a thread for a new name and about things for the current forum.

Glad to hear you're an astrologer Desertrose, I assume you'll use electional astrology to pick the best time to re-introduce the current forum under a new name.

But has anyone contacted Skinner to ask if you can change the name ?

I have asked several times if anyone has contacted Skinner about changing the current forum?

[Desertrose]

67. Pallas, I did NOT claim I was an astrologer

did you not read my post??

and why can't I support both forums?

this may all be moot if Skinner doesn't want to split this forum up...

don't worry, we'll take care of contacting Skinner.

[Pallas180]

69. OK DesRose,let me understand-you & NB want me to do an electional chart

for you for the time that you should begin or re-introduce the current forum under a new name?

[Pathwalker]

72. Bwahaha! Too funny!

:rofl:
I give up - I am obviously able to write anything you can understand, and I speak in very simple language - or so I thought.

[Pallas180]

75. Notorious, I thought you're asking me to do an electional chart here:

Notorious Bohemian (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-29-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #51

52. Can you do a chart then to determine the best time to
start the new forum in such a way that it would be of the greatest benefit for both forums? This would help avoid future problems?
***

That's called an electional chart. You don't want me to do it?
I give up too. I guess I just dont understand what you want from me.

Peace.

[DemExpat]

71. I am very sorry to see a split, but support whatever we all here

want and feel we need. :grouphug:

I still do not understand - at all - why Astrologers could not create lively threads here in THIS Group? While ignoring those threads of no interest.....

Lots of us were happy to lurk on these Astrology threads since we didn't feel we had anything to offer.......

DemEx

[Quakerfriend]

74. I agree, DemExpat!

Why split? It really doesn't make much sense to me.

[2Design]

76. well so much for positive replys

This has degenerated

Good night for now

[Cha]

77. Yeah, it's too bad..

sorry for this reaction to what I thought was a good idea, too, 28erl.

I had no idea people would get offended..oh well, live and learn.

And I hope those who have been offended will accept my sincere apology that wanting to have a forum solely for Astrology was not meant to dis any of the other subjects.

I just know that the Astrology, Spirituality, And Alternative Healing Group was started when the Moon was VOC and I thought we could all get a fresh start with the Moon in Sync for one thing.

:grouphug:

[Pallas180]

78. Back on track. I vote for this Mission Statement

POLITICAL & MUNDANE ASTROLOGY FORUM

"This DU Astrology Forum is for those who wish to discuss or post matters having to do with Political or Mundane Astrology, i.e. world events, political events or personages, New Moons, Full Moons, Solstices, Eclipses and all related astrological events on earth or in and under the heavens. All types of astrology will be welcome including but not limited to traditional, vedic, uranian, horary, astromapping and/or any other established method in the art and science of Astrology. Participants who wish to contribute Astrological articles they author on current or past topics and events, or post other astrological articles for discussion will be welcome to do so, as long as such articles encourage further discussion of astrological aspects.

This group is intended as a positive place for those who desire a deeper discussion of these stated topics and is not intended as a place to argue the merits, validity or belief in the art and science of astrology.

[LunaC]

89. I concur

The Mission Statement for the POLITICAL & MUNDANE ASTROLOGY FORUM is the better of the two possibilities.

[Trillo]

79. self-deleted

[Pallas180]

85. E Mail from serious student of astrology: from post # 70

I am presuming that serious students of astrology are wanted
for their opinions on this issue...hope I'm right because I am giving one here.
I think the more detailed mission statement emphasizing "Political" astrology will help Skinner in his decision making. We are different in that most other topics in our shared forum are totally unrelated to politics. Some of the titles I read today are:

Hermetic Philosophy
movies
deja
Reiki
Tarot
UFOs
Seed people

and the list goes on and on. While these are certainly worthwhile topics for those interested they do not add much to political interests which are after all the main focus of DU and the one thing that brings all of us together. "Political Astrology" is just that, the focus is apparent and deserves its own room where not only those interested can post but those occasional curious people who want to know what the stars have to say about political events can come and ask questions without searching us out.

[2Design]

90. Mundane and Political Astrology - further definitions

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/mundane-astrology.php

Definition of Mundane Astrology Mundane Interpretations.

An interpretation of Astrology in terms of world trends, the destinies of nations and of large groups of individuals, based on an analysis of the effects of Equinoxes, Solstices, New Moons, Eclipses, planetary conjunctions, and similar celestial phenomena; as distinguished from Natal Astrology, specifically applicable to an individual birth horoscope.
_________________________________________________________________-

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/dictionary/predictions-in-mundane-astrology.php

Definition of Predictions, in Mundane Astrology

Although predictions, as drawn from a birth Figure, often show a high percentage of correctness, the practice teaches a fatalistic philosophy that denies the gift of Free Will and Self Determination. The high percentage of correctness proves only that a high percentage of people permit themselves to be ruled by the emotions instead of the dominance of the reasoning faculties. It is only in the realm of Mundane Astrology, which deals with the mass reaction of large political or geographical groups, that predicting can be indulged in without inculcating a harmful philosophy.



Predictions in Mundane Astrology are certainly no more damaging than those based upon Gallup polls, or the experience and judgment of practical politicians. Even the weatherman is often wrong, yet he stacks up a pretty good average, but in doing so he uses an efficient communications system to get advance warning of movements that must have had their inception in some cosmic condition. Weather predicting is therefore no more and no less legitimate than predictions in Mundane Astrology. Whether based upon an eclipse path, a chart of an ingress or lunation, or a national chart erected for some presumed moment of inception or initiation, and whether or not the predictions are substantiated by ensuing events, the important factor is that, right or wrong, there is no harm done. Mass reactions generally follow cosmic trends, for the same reason that only the minority is ever consistently right. However, when it comes to the individual, astrology cannot be helpful other than by teaching that man has the inherent ability, if he will use it, to negate unfavorable urges and work in harmony with favorable ones. For that reason, the future value of astrology rests upon the willingness of astrologers to discourage anything that smacks of fortune-telling and confine its use to the diagnosis of conditions, and the giving of a formula of prescribed thinking calculated to free the individual from subserviency to mere emotional stimulations.

___________________________________________________
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Political+astrology

Political Astrology is the branch of astrology dealing with politics, the government, and the politicians/laws governing a particular nation, state, or city. Certain countries have astrological charts (or horoscopes) just like a person is said to in astrology, for example, the chart of USA is widely thought to be sometime during the day of July 4th 1776, for this is the exact day that the Declaration of Independence was signed and made fully official, thus causing the 'birth' of the United States of America as a nation. Indeed, July 4th is a major holiday in America and unequivocally thought of as the 'birthday' of the entire nation.st

[Pallas180]

96. Encyclopedia of Astrology by Nicholas DeVore

"Mundane Astrology "- page 263

"Mundane Interpretations-An interpretation of Astrolgoy in terms of

world trends, the destinies of nations and of large groups of

individuals, based on an analysis of the effects of Equinoxes,

Solstices, New Moons, Eclipses, planetary conjunctions, and similar

celestial phenomena; as distinguished from Natal Astrology."

[Pallas180]

91. There are 5 votes so far for this Mission Statement: (briefly counted)

POLITICAL & MUNDANE ASTROLOGY FORUM

"This DU Astrology Forum is for those who wish to discuss or post matters having to do with Political or Mundane Astrology, i.e. world events, political events or personages, New Moons, Full Moons, Solstices, Eclipses and all related astrological events on earth or in and under the heavens. All types of astrology will be welcome including but not limited to traditional, vedic, uranian, horary, astromapping and/or any other established method in the art and science of Astrology. Participants who wish to contribute Astrological articles they author on current or past topics and events, or post other astrological articles for discussion will be welcome to do so, as long as such articles encourage further discussion of astrological aspects.

This group is intended as a positive place for those who desire a deeper discussion of these stated topics and is not intended as a place to argue the merits, validity or belief in the art and science of astrology.

[Pallas180]

92. Simple Trends suggests amending as so:

3) POLITICAL ASTROLOGY FORUM
This forum is for those who wish to discuss the art and science of astrology as it relates to political, economic, physical, and social changes in the world. All types of geocentric or heliocentric astrology will be welcome. This includes but is not limited to Western or Eastern traditional forms as well as experimental hybrids. Participants who wish to post new astrology articles or contribute to existing topics are welcome as long as they encourage the further discussion of astrology.

This place is intended for positive discourse and not to argue the merits or validity of the art and science of astrology.

[2Design]

93. I see 2 plus you for a total of 3 - can you point me to the other posts

Saw 2 for the simple version - I am leaning toward a composite so I am not including my vote in this one even though I wrote it

I saw Simple Trends which seems to be a good composite.

I will pull toward a revised mission statement later today or early Friday morning based on all three and any other revisions that may show up today.

Title will be

Political and Mundane Astrology

with links to the definitions at the bottom of the mission statement for clarity for all experience levels of astrology enthusiasts.

[Pallas180]

94. there are 6 for #2 - In the interest of their privacy

and to prevent them from being haranged, I have mailed you their comments and votes.

There are a couple of more coming in.

[Trillo]

106. It occurred to me the if " 'Mundane' Astrology" is in the forum name,

It becomes redundant to state Pallas180's phrase series:

<blockquote>"world events, political events or personages, New Moons, Full Moons, Solstices, Eclipses and all related astrological events on earth or in and under the heavens"</blockquote>

Or even mine:
<blockquote>" political, economic, physical, and social changes in the world"</blockquote>

I was trying for a certain conciseness, hence my concern over redundancy. Sometimes redundancy is a good thing.

Revision and rewriting, editing, cut & paste, mix, etc., is also good!

[tlcandie]

98. Cast my vote for this one... thanks!

:hi:

[Pallas180]

99. Thanks TLCandie, that makes 7 for this one:

POLITICAL & MUNDANE ASTROLOGY FORUM

"This DU Astrology Forum is for those who wish to discuss or post matters having to do with Political or Mundane Astrology, i.e. world events, political events or personages, New Moons, Full Moons, Solstices, Eclipses and all related astrological events on earth or in and under the heavens. All types of astrology will be welcome including but not limited to traditional, vedic, uranian, horary, astromapping and/or any other established method in the art and science of Astrology. Participants who wish to contribute Astrological articles they author on current or past topics and events, or post other astrological articles for discussion will be welcome to do so, as long as such articles encourage further discussion of astrological aspects.

This group is intended as a positive place for those who desire a deeper discussion of these stated topics and is not intended as a place to argue the merits, validity or belief in the art and science of astrology.

[catzies]

95. Another vote "for it." I'm not a contributor, but an avid reader.

And blessings on all here. :hug:

[Pallas180]

97. Hi Catzies, glad you're an avid reader..but post an "oh yeah"

or something every once in awhile. :) :hi:

[catzies]

104. Okey dokey. Will do, and be glad to. Mostly I don't have anything

valuable to contribute to further the disucssion, but I will most certaily be glad to post encouragements. :)

[Pallas180]

100. FROM SKINNER

Skinner ADMIN (1000+ posts) Thu Jun-30-05 01:49 PM
Original message
To the participants in this group.
I have been avoiding any public comment on this situation, because I was hoping you would all sort it out for yourselves. But I've received enough requests from people asking me to step in that I figure it's time for me to inject my two cents. To be honest, I'm a little surprised that I am once again being pulled into a conflict involving Astrology, fully seven months after we created the DU Groups and freed you from being tormented by Skeptics.

Basically, I'm of two minds.

On the one hand: If you all want two separate groups, then I don't really see any reason why I should stand in the way. I can have the new group set up in five minutes and wash my hands of the whole thing. End of story.

But on the other hand: I don't really see the need for two groups, nor do I think it will solve the problems here. My impression is that one week ago, most people here had not even considered the possibility of creating two groups, nor had most people felt that there was a need for it. If the split hadn't been proposed, I doubt it would be an issue for most people.

The stated rationale for this new Astrology forum is twofold: 1) Astrologers no longer post in the existing forum, and 2) You don't want to have to share a space with other stuff that is not "scientific" like Astrology.

In response to #1, my feeling is that further separating people will not cause more people to get involved with Astrology discussions. Sure, there will be a temporary boost in interest, but after a while I suspect participation will wax and wane just as it does here. It seems to me that the problem of "Astrologers don't post here anymore" is quite simple to solve: Start posting again!

In response to #2, my feeling is that this problem might follow you to your new home. I can already make out a line between self-styled "professional/real" astrologers versus "amateur" astrologers. How will you all feel if/when some amateur shows up in the new Group whose approach to Astrology is different or unorthodox? Do we create another Group just for real astrologers? And how do we decide who makes the cut?

Furthermore, there seem to be lots of people who like the Group exactly how it is. They don't want to have to visit two groups, and I don't really think they should have to do so.

So, with that in mind, and given the fact that the discussion of Astrology on DU seems to have a history of problems no matter where the discussions take place, I guess my impression is that these problems might not be related to location. Perhaps there are just some personality differences. Personality problems are better solved with use of the ignore feature or the hide thread feature. I think it is arguable that the current denigration of certain topics in this forum is in violation of the mission statement of this forum, which says: "This group is intended as a positive place for those who desire a deeper discussion of these stated topics and is not intended as a place to argue the merits of beliefs or choices."

So -- to make a long story short -- I think splitting up is a mistake and may not solve the perceived problems. If it's already decided, then I'll do whatever you all want me to do. I'll create a new group. But I'm not going to force people to use a new Group if they are perfectly happy with this one.

That's my two cents. Talk amongst yourselves and let me know when you all agree on a decision.

[Pallas180]

101. My view , it'snot a matter of "professional" vs Non-professional Astrolog

astrologers, as some in the old forum opposing a Political and Mundane Astrology Forum, have phrased it repeatedly, I might add with a great deal of mean spiritedness.

It is a matter of very little astrology being posted on the current forum because all except four astrologers including myself, remain.

Two of the remaining astrologers want a new Astrology Forum where only astrology is posted.
One does not want a new forum
One will post in both forums.

29 people have signed up for a new Political & Mundane Astrology Forum indicating they want a room dedicated to Astrology, only

A majority of them never visit or post on the current Spiritual, Alternative Healing, Astrology Forum.

I would hope that would be enough people to deserve a room where only one subject that is their main interest is discussed.

Thank you.

[2Design]

102. Need Composite mission statement - inclusive for all astrology interest

When I started this thread I was of the mind that we need an astrology mission statement that is a composite of and for all astrology enthusiasts.

What I am finding is one unchanged mission statement being pushed. One that I find too complex and complicated.

My concern at this time is if someone post something in new forum that does not meet this unwavering mission statement will their head be chopped off - Which is Skinner's # 2 posted again at the bottom of this message. If that is the case, then we don't need to go there.

At this time, I would like to take 24 hours to think about this and come up with a composite mission statement and see if others can agree.

I believe having a separate place would be nice for multiple reasons. I am sorry people have to make it into a bad thing rather than a growth thing.

I have heard thoughts to rename this current forum metaphysical place. That seems appropriate and will probably bring more subjects. If there are not enough people to keep this current forum going if 3 or 4 active astrology enthusiasts leave than - I don't know what to say.

Those who have said they are interested in separate forum are over 26 in numbers - will it work - I don't know - I would like to try if we have an inclusive mission statement - if not - so be it
__________________________________________________________

Skinners words - In response to #2, my feeling is that this problem might follow you to your new home. I can already make out a line between self-styled "professional/real" astrologers versus "amateur" astrologers. How will you all feel if/when some amateur shows up in the new Group whose approach to Astrology is different or unorthodox? Do we create another Group just for real astrologers? And how do we decide who makes the cut?

[Pallas180]

103. Are you saying you dont want the Forum to be "Poltical & Mundane"

astrology?

28ERL, there seem to be 27 or 28 people who think Political & Mundane is what they are signing on for, including me.

You seem to want to include Natal or personal astrology and that is
already included in Spiritual, Astrology, & Holistic Alternative Healing Forum.

I think it would be unfair to encroach on what the existing forum has already set up, and they do personal natal astrology regularly.

The point I thought you presented was to have a different type of AStrology, a serious Political & Mundane site. I'm for that.

If somebody badly needs help and posts on the current forum asking for personal astrology advice, I can always post to that forum to help out in whatever way I can.

But there's a big difference between personal astrology and Political & Mundane Astrology.

Here's Nicholas DeVore's definition from the Encyclopedia of Astrology by Nicholas DeVore


"Mundane Astrology "- page 263

"Mundane Interpretations-An interpretation of Astrolgoy in terms of

world trends, the destinies of nations and of large groups of

individuals, based on an analysis of the effects of Equinoxes,

Solstices, New Moons, Eclipses, planetary conjunctions, and similar

celestial phenomena; as distinguished from Natal Astrology."

[Pallas180]

105. The Moon Today thru the next few days is in negative aspects so

I'm just going to take a little vacation from this online.

But I'll be available to pm me.

Have a great weekend guys

:hi:

[KittyWampus]

108. Why Just Political And Mundane? WHY NOT INCLUDE ESOTERIC ?

I would appreciate an answer to this question from those moving for a seperate Astrology forum.

Thanks in advance.

[Trillo]

110. I mentioned your idea in my post #109

added it at the last minute, cause I just saw your post. Checked here earlier today, didn't see your post then, and have been thinking about the issue ever since. Hope you don't mind.

[Pallas180]

119. Exoteric astrology vs Esoteric astrology

Definitions of esoteric astrology on the Web:

A study that deals with the human spirit and hidden nature as opposed to exoteric astrology, which deals with human characteristics and life on Earth. Reincarnation, karma, the aura, one's reason for being and the part human life plays in the ultimate scheme of the cosmic, universal or spiritual are among topics investigated in terms of astrological symbolism.

The impression I received was that a new forum would be for exoteric astrology, the political and mundane, in depth discussions.

A few of us have a lot of interest in events of earthquakes and such through astromapping. I think that's Mundane astrology, exoteric events, while the beautiful and spiritual metaphysical is
Esoteric astrology.

JMHO the metaphysical and esoteric is well covered in the current forum. I had hoped to go on posting there too, on other subjects than would be in POlitical & Mundane, but that seems impossible now.

I think an example of Esoteric thought is: "Every word/thought continues to float around the universe forever."

Gives one pause, doesn't it?

[KittyWampus]

120. An Example Of Esoteric Astrology Would Be To Explain The Actual

Universal Principles behind the symbolism used in Mundane Astrology AND HOW IT WORKS>

Frankly, as evidenced by discussion on DU, political and mundane astrologers have only a very general idea what the actual underlying PRINCIPLES of Astrology actually are.

It's nice to be able to drive a car... it's even nicer when you understand the mechanics and engineering that go into how a car works.

Whatever.

[emcguffie]

130. I'm sure I don't understand.

But maybe you can help me out here. I used to have a Liz Greene book, back in 1981 or so, on the astrology of the collective. It was really a transcript of a seminar she had done.

In it, she looked at the chart of the USSR, but I would guess that is indeed a birth chart, isn't it? And she looked at what was going to happen in the end of the decade, which was when Saturn, Neptune and Uranus, I think, conjuncted.

(Sorry I cannot remember this better, I lent the book out and never saw it again.)

What I can remember is that there was something happening to USSR's seventh house, and she interpreted this as .... many of the "forced spouses" of the USSR would be asking for divorces. At that time, this was a completely outrageous prediction to make.

Long about 1988, it looked uncanny.

But even though that is based on a natal chart for a country, and transits, and progressions and such, that is a completely different kind of astrology?

Sorry for being dim.

EM

[Trillo]

109. Various Mission Statements

28erl has proposed:

1) ASTROLOGY FORUM
Astrology forum to explore, discuss, and write about the art and science of astrology in all its aspects as it relates to people, places, things, and events in the world.

This place is intended for positive discourse and not to argue the merits or validity of the art and science of astrology.

***
Pallas180 has proposed:

2)POLITICAL & MUNDANE ASTROLOGY FORUM

"This DU Astrology Forum is for those who wish to discuss or post matters having to do with Political or Mundane Astrology, i.e. world events, political events or personages, New Moons, Full Moons, Solstices, Eclipses, any and all related astrological events on earth or in and under the heavens. All types of astrology will be welcome including but not limited to traditional, vedic, uranian, horary, astromapping and/or any other established method in the art and science of Astrology. Participants who wish to contribute Astrological articles they author on current or past topics and events, or post other astrological articles for discussion will be welcome to do so, as long as such articles encourage further discussion of astrological aspects.

This group is intended as a positive place for those who desire a deeper discussion of these stated topics and is not intended as a place to argue the merits, validity or belief in the art and science of astrology.

***
I (SimpleTrend) have proposed (with more revisions today for clarity):

3) POLITICAL ASTROLOGY FORUM
This forum is for those who wish to discuss the art and science of astrology as it relates to political, economic, physical, and social changes in the world. All types of geocentric or heliocentric astrology will be welcome as well as hybrids of the two, and this includes but is not limited to Western or Eastern traditional astrology. Participants who wish to post new astrology articles or contribute to existing topics are welcome as long as they encourage the further discussion of astrology.

This place is intended for positive discourse and not to argue the merits or validity of the art and science of astrology.

***

It's good to cut and paste, edit, revise, propose new Mission Statement text, write a completely new Statement, make your own variant, etc.


Mine, number "3)" above, has borrowed heavily from the ideas of Pallas180, and I also borrowed some from 28erl, but it's heavily rewritten, reorganized, and revised. The title was suggested by JPace. I tried to simplify Pallas180's to remove some redundancies for conciseness and clarity, and in some respects made it simpler, more like 28erl's. Some of my thinking was outlined above in other posts of mine and in the dialog above I had with Pallas180. I included a clause specific to heliocentric astrology, largely because of a historical split that happened with astrology about 500 years ago with the names Copernicus and Galileo (do those names fire any brain cells?).


What is the purpose of a new DU astrology board? It seems to me that a Mundane Astrology board with an emphasis on Politics is a good idea, very DUish. It also appears that there's some desire from the community for a place to both learn and read about astrology. In the current forum, one of the astrologers had posted some basic lessons. This has not been particularly addressed in any mission statement, but perhaps it is implicit.

Anyway, I'm simply inviting discussion on the various Mission Statements that have been proposed. But I'm also wondering about some other things.

Is a single forum enough? Do we need more than one "room" to properly organize discussion so that people looking for information don't have to hope what they are looking for is somewhere within the scrolling titles that are routinely kicked to be on the first visible page? The plus here is DU's current structure is good for current events, the negative is that astrology often takes a long-term view and long-since buried posts may offer something for today. It's possible that there's a 25-year long-range view back in the archives somewhere, the poster may no longer be active, and the post and knowledge contributed is essentially lost.

This has been one of my issues with DU astrology wherever it has been. It seems that unless a very general Mission Statement is proposed for what may become highly specific discussions (such as what is declination?) or some particular branch of astrology, (cryingshame just mentioned esoteric astrology), then some discussion might not be appropriate in a single DU forum.

This, in theory, could be addressed with a directory structure (which is far outside the purview of a "single DU" forum, but obviously I'm entertaining the thought here for discussion with the community.)

Is there truth to the idea that creating multiple forums dilutes commentary in each respective forum decreasing or diluting activity? Or is there any truth in the idea that a structure optimized for finding information would increase activity instead? It seems that at DU there may be false activity, I've seen it on the front pages, why not in any particular forum?

Is there a need to separate heliocentric from geocentric astrology? Should Vedic and Uranian astrology have their own forums? Should multiple forums instead be organized by times of expected astrological influences regardless of school of astrology and time of original posting? If a post is written that covers a long period of time, should it be placed in multiple time-based forums or tagged in specialized ways? Or should all of these various posts be grouped together in one all-purpose forum, where issues of finding something posted a long time ago arise everyday requiring "activity" to keep a thread "kicked" in order for it to remain visible?

Problem: astrology lessons probably shouldn't get buried in the archives, but should be easy to find once someone has been generous enough to author such threads. One solution: a forum named astrology lessons. Should there be a room for astrology lessons? Are there any other solutions (that DU probably doesn't have), such as tagging posts to be categorized in various, perhaps multiple ways by certain software organization functions? (think of something similar to a weblog category or Technorati tag)

If it were possible, what is the best way to order the chaos of a prime or premier astrology forum or forums?

[linazelle]

111. I like this idea, the current forum is too diluted. nt

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Desertrose]

116. Let them have thier new forum and I agree why change the current title?

It has been made clear that we still have those who choose to post astrology in our forum . :)

If others want a more focused forum. Its all fine with me.

I am not crazy about the way it was started and I am also not crazy about the judgements leveled at some posts/posters in the current forum.
I honestly doubt the new astrology forum will fare better if the "wrong things" are posted.

But I honestly can see the need for those who want more technical types of threads.

It CAN be all good but time will tell.

I wish you all luck...but I don't think you should be able to have exclusive use of the word ASTROLOGY.

[2Design]

113. just an update

I did not do this very well
I could have done this better.
I did not do this gracefully.
Just like with any split - there are hurt feelings, things are said that would have been better left unsaid by many.
I can not go back and edit old posts.

It will be ok.
It has been good to give it some time. There is no rush.
This has been needed for some time.
Which shows in the support we received for a new forum on astrology. It will happen.

About half dozen have been picking a new name for the current forum and have a thread on it and are excited about it and moving forward.
The new name seems to be building a bigger tent to include lots of interesting subjects and topics. Sounds exciting and I feel the energy change.

This is a positive and good growth effort. The evolution of the ideas are happening. The energies are changing.

We are working on a mission statement for the new Political Astrology forum and invite discussion on the lastest post of Simple Trend

[Pathwalker]

114. Any idea on a timeline?

Do have any date certain, or is that still to be determined?

[2Design]

115. no n/t

[Trillo]

117. How does one determine the location of a computer network?

Where is DU located? I mean the precise latitude and longitude of the server? Is there more than one server?

One of DU's IPs appears to be 64.40.102.44. I'm not a network expert, nor am I up on Geo-computer issues.

I want the latitude and longitude in degrees and minutes: West North East South. A city, state, and nation is nice, too.

If the location is "all over the world" then I think there are no houses nor Horizon or Ascendant/IC axis in a forum birth chart.

Thoughts?

[NMDemDist2]

118. self delete n/t

[Pallas180]

121. Mundane Astrology: Earth Changes-Astromapping - July 4 Volcano

http://www.astro.com/cgi/aclch.cgi?cid=fitfileSVODRA-u1119883535&lang=e&btyp=acm&nhor=2&smap=world&go.x=24&go.y=12

The above shows a world astromap.

It's no surprise that with the Pluto line crossing the Uranus line over Japan a humongous undersea volcano has blown and the boiling, roiling around it continues to grow. (CNN Headline News showing pics from helicopter on their repeated 15 minute news).

This area is not through "blowing" as transits go past this point.

Pluto/Uranus also crossing above the Caspian Sea and Iran in Russia.

Chiron/Saturn crossing over Niger/Nigeria which speaks of death, illness, and wounding.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/aclch.cgi?cid=fitfileSVODRA-u1119883535&lang=e&btyp=acm&nhor=2&smap=namericaall&go.x=27&go.y=8

Mars square Jupiter( increase of fire? ) lines running through New Mexico, West of the lines is always stronger, but the Mars lines seem to be far away from Arizona and don't explain the fires, as far as I can see.

[Pallas180]

122. July 4, Sumatra hit by another 6.8 earthquake.

no tsunami yet.

Venus, Mercury, Saturn may be triggering previous sensitive point of
Dec. 04

Saturn conj Chiron lines run through the area today.

[Pallas180]

124. I have posted & e mailed Skinner the following today:

Skinner, concerning the additional group, Astrology: Political & Mundane
You have said in your post that we should decide among ourselves and that it would take you 5 minutes to put up a new group.

The majority of both sides came to the consensus, as seen in this thread that the two separate groupings are acceptable.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The Astrology: Political & Mundane Group e mailed you a request that its additional astrology group be added on July 8 at 3:00 PM.

We realize you have been very busy and that might not have been possible.

Would it be possible to give us an idea of when you will put up the
additional group which is described as follows:

The final description of the additional requested forum is very narrow described as so:

ASTROLOGY: POLITICAL & MUNDANE FORUM

Welcome to Astrology: Political & Mundane.
This DU Astrology Forum is for those who wish to discuss
matters having to do with Political or Mundane Astrology, i.e.
astrological matters regarding World Events, Political Forecasts and Events, Political Personages, Financial,Social,Weather and Earth Changes. All methods of astrology are welcome. Participants who wish to post to existing topics or contribute new astrological articles are welcome as long as such posts or articles encourage further discussion of Political or Mundane Astrology.

This group is intended as a positive place for those who
desire a discussion of these stated topics and is not intended
as a place to argue the merits, validity or belief in the art
and science of astrology.


it says all "methods" meaning heliocentric, geocentric, electional, horary, declination, uranian, vedic, astromapping, rectification, etc etc.

it does not say all "types" of astrology so personal, esoteric, karmic, metaphysical, natal astrology and other topics and whoever wants to post whatever usually discussed in the current forum remain in the current forum, "Astrology, Spirituality & Alternative Healing Group". That Group also would like the word "Metaphysics" added to their description is my understanding.

We all would appreciate your reply. Thanks Skinner

Pallas180

[Pallas180]

125. To Astrologers: In order to maintain the chosen birthdate

of the start of Astrology: Political & Mundane

at 3:02 PM on July 8, 2005 the following astrological piece was posted elsewhere on DU. It changes the planets in the 9th and 10th house somewhat from 3 PM sharp, but is still applicable. Additionally, the chart tells the story as the Moon will come to the MC, indicating a change of location from its present post.

Here's the first article posted for Astrology: Political & Mundane

Pallas180 (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-08-05 03:02 PM

Justice Sandra Day O’ Connor & The Straw That Broke The Camel’s Back < [br /> Justice Sandra Day O’ Connor & The Straw That Broke The Camel’s Back

Because Justice Sandra Day O’Connor was a Federalist and a Republican those on the left hardly realized what a champion of causes usually associated with Liberals she was.

In 1984 with this opinion she re-affirmed the separation of Church and State, (which rule of law seems to have been ignored by the current administration : < i > "The Establishment Clause prohibits government from making adherence to a religion relevant in any way to a person's standing in the political community. Government can run afoul of that prohibition in two principal ways. One is excessive entanglement with religious institutions, which may interfere with the independence of the institutions, give the institutions access to government or governmental powers not fully shared by nonadherents of the religion, and foster the creation of political constituencies defined along religious lines. “

In her 1992 opinion on Planned Parenthood v. Casey , which upheld a woman's constitutional right to an abortion but gave states more flexibility to impose limited restrictions, she wrote: (and saved Roe)
“We reject the trimester framework, which we do not consider to be part of the essential holding of Roe . Measures aimed at ensuring that a woman's choice contemplates the consequences for the fetus do not necessarily interfere with the right recognized in Roe , although those measures have been found to be inconsistent with the rigid trimester framework announced in that case. . . ."The abortion right is similar. Numerous forms of state regulation might have the incidental effect of increasing the cost or decreasing the availability of medical care, whether for abortion or any other medical procedure. The fact that a law which serves a valid purpose, one not designed to strike at the right itself, has the incidental effect of making it more difficult or more expensive to procure an abortion cannot be enough to invalidate it. Only where state regulation imposes an undue burden on a woman's ability to make this decision does the power of the State reach into the heart of the liberty protected by the Due Process Clause. "

In her 1992 Opinion on Affirmative Action which swayed the Court and saved at least part of it, she wrote < i> "We have repeatedly acknowledged the overriding importance of preparing students for work and citizenship, describing education as pivotal to 'sustaining our political and cultural heritage' with a fundamental role in maintaining the fabric of society. This court has long recognized that 'education is the very foundation of good citizenship.' For this reason, the diffusion of knowledge and opportunity through public institutions of higher education must be accessible to all individuals regardless of race or ethnicity.

And most heroically, in 2004 she stood up to Bush, Rumsfeld & Ashcroft when she wrote the majority opinion in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld , ruling a U.S. citizen seized on the Afghanistan battlefield can challenge his detention in U.S. courts "We have long since made clear that a state of war is not a blank check for the President when it comes to the rights of the Nation's citizens. . . . It would turn our system of checks and balances on its head to suggest that a citizen could not make his way to court with a challenge to the factual basis for his detention by his government, simply because the Executive opposes making available such a challenge. . . .< /i >”

Sandra Day O’ Connor was born on March 26 1930 in El Paso Texas.
I have rectified her chart, as her birth time is unknown, and the rectified chart gives the following
Cusps and planet placements

7:52:57 AM MST + 700
Geocentric Tropical Placidus

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?nhor=3&nho2=2&btyp=2...

MC 27 Capricorn 59
10th house Aquarian Moon 24
11th house Mars at 7 Pisces
11th house Mercury 29 Pisces
12th house POF 1 Aries
12th house Sun 5 Aries
12th house Uranus 10 Aries
12th house Venus 17 Aries
12th house Equ Asc 2 Taurus
12th house North Node 3 Taurus
12th house Chiron 11 Taurus
Ascendant 12 Taurus
1st house Jupiter 10 Gemini
3rd house Pluto 17 Cancer
IC 27 Cancer
5th house Neptune 1 Virgo
6th house Vertex 19 Libra
6th house South Node 3 Scorpio
7th Descendant 12 Scorpio
9th house Saturn 11 Capricorn

On July 1, 2005 Justice O’Connor shocked the nation by announcing her retirement. This was completely unexpected even by the White House, as the next resignation was expected to be Chief Judge Rehnquist.

Although the press reported Judge O’Connor is retiring from the Supreme Court (at the most inopportune time as seen from the Democrat’s view) to care for her husband who has Alzheimer, Political & Mundane
Astrology takes a look at the hidden factors which may have caused the Justice to suddenly up and chuck her place in the Supreme Court away.

On February 22, 2005 the case of Kelor v City of New London entered the docket of the Supreme Court. This case had to do with what is known as “The Takings Clause – Eminent Domain” and the right of the State to take land from a private party for public use.”

Due to the absence of Rehnquist, Judge O’ Connor herself presided over the verbal arguments of the combatants in the case and the decision of the Supremes delivered on June 23, 2005..The majority in the Supreme Court ruled in a 5 to 4 decision that the government could take personal private property from one party and give it to another private party.

It would appear to a practiced astrological “eye” that that was the last straw for Justice O’Connor. She was
shocked and angry as Mars on the midpoint of her natal Sun /Uranus in the 12th house attests. And she wrote her colleagues that “ this was a threat to all private property rights”

Transiting Uranus had just conjuncted her natal Mars at 7 Pisces and was now three degrees away, but Uranus is known to have a kick very commonly as much as 3 degrees after passing over a sensitive point in a chart. And to add to what seemed a shocking decision, the eclipse of April 8, earlier this year at 19 Aries
Was triggered in Justice O’Connor’s chart by the transiting 19 degree Aries North Node over her 12th house Venus which natally opposes her 6th house fated Vertex at 19 Libra in the house of work, and in this case her work was Justice as told by the sign of Libra on the 6th house cusp.

Indicating the finality of this decision and her unhappy if not depressed thought that it was time to move on, was transiting Saturn conjunct transiting MC both at 27 Cancer, sitting smack dab on her 4th house of endings cusp 27 Cancer, and opposing the transiting Moon on her MC. Whenever the Moon or
Saturn are on any of the angles, one feels the need to make a change, to move, and in this case Justice O’Connor decided to end her career.

Chiron also was transiting Justice O’Connor’s career point and had recently passed it. The decision she made was not taken lightly, and Chiron in this placement says it hurt her to leave her career and her position on the Supreme Court.

It appears to me that with the depressing Saturn opposition the Moon on her angles, and this decision of the
Conservative court on June 23rd 2005 leaning heavily toward Corporate ownership of the country, Justice O’ Connor gave up in anger and frustration. Perhaps even her resignation was a message to her colleagues of her disgust at their abandonment of the Constitution and the rights of the people.

On June 23, Justice O’Connor wrote a blistering dissenting opinion to the agreement (5 to 4 of the Supreme
Court ) that the government could take personal private property from one party and give it to another private Party.

She wrote in her 2005 dissent in Kelo v. New London ,: < i > a ruling that gives local governments broad authority to seize people's homes and businesses against their will for private development: "The specter of condemnation hangs over all property. Nothing is to prevent the State from replacing any Motel 6 with a Ritz-Carlton, any home with a shopping mall, or any farm with a factory. . . . Any property may now be taken for the benefit of another private party, but the fallout from this decision will not be random. The beneficiaries are likely to be those citizens with disproportionate influence and power in the political process, including large corporations and development firms. "As for the victims, the government now has license to transfer property from those with fewer resources to those with more. The Founders cannot have intended this perverse result. 'That alone is a just government,' wrote James Madison, 'which impartially secures to every man, whatever is his own.' "

(Her entire opinion can be found at Findlaw (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=...


Liberals may not have realized it when she was sitting on the bench, but they have lost a champion, an unsung hero of their causes. Justice Sandra Day O’Connor submitted her resignation one week after the
Decision of the Supreme Court to take away the common man’s land.

Pallas180, July 8, 2005. @

[Desertrose]

126. How can you have a "chosen" birthdate when there is still no new forum

yet created as of this post??


Maybe you should wait until Skinner actually sets it up to have an accurate chart time.

Just because you say your post for the new forum means it IS a new forum, doesn't make it so. So will you argue which will be the true date of its birth when it finally gets set up?



( and FWIW, not sure its fair to push Skinner...the man seems to have his hands pretty full of other things right now.)

BTW where was your thread posted?

[Trillo]

127. Sorry if this is a thread hijack.

Ideally, any birthchart would recognize the moment of conception. Usually, this data is not available.

When people start talking about it to each other, that becomes another important slice of time.

When a formal agreement is reached, another.

When an action is taken, still another.

And on and on the spiral continues.

I'm amtrivalent regarding another DU forum. I probably shouldn't have much input one way or the other.

In abstract: the new forum has been conceived, therefore, it has a conception chart; it has writing to each other charts; it has fighting with each other charts.

The spiral of life continues.

[Desertrose]

129. Actually I think this is a perfect commentary Simple Trend

Thank you for the perspective shift......

all charts are simply slices in time...which slice to use? which slice is the "right" one? the most important one? and ultimately..does it mater whic one ...what is, is.....

and so the spiral continues...

[Eloriel]

131. Yes, indeed

Well said. The spiral of life.

The notion that something can have a birth time that one "declares" while the thing involved didn't get birthed at all (or even conceived at that time) is --- well, let me put it this way: *I'm* amused. I'm also reminded of the old saying, "You can't fool Mother Nature." Nor can you fool the stars.

Plus as I've looked at my own life vis a vis astrology, and even some of the mundane charts for things that I've been interested in, I shy further and further away from election astrology. Not that I think there's no value in electional astrology -- I do -- but a lot less value than I once thought. I rather think that people should be attuned to what's going on in their lives, focused and "connected" with the flow of life that feeds their lives and that of those around them, and then when something they've been contemplating gets born -- voila! It's natural, organic, and done at the "perfect" time, which is usually far better timing that most of us could have imagined or schemed.

How many of us have looked at the natal chart for the CIA, the Patriot Act, and others, and marvelled at the incredible astrological power -- when NO ONE was using electional astrology to get those things done. Those events were just what occurred in the natural flow of the energies -- which is really more how I see astrology working as I look at the mundane factors. The energies coalesce and seem to "pull in" certain things that match in the outer world those astrological energies on the astrological plane. IMO it's very hard to get that, having to opt instead for a somewhat false and artificial appendage to what might have occurred more gracefully and naturally another time.

Of course, I could be wrong about it all. If I were getting married, having a Casarean or other surgery, I'd definitely want to check the charts -- but even then I don't think I'd want to engineer the chart for my "event."

We did have an astrologer pick the date and time for our wedding (well before I studied astrology on my own), and once I learned a little about astrology, I regretted it -- or more accurately, what she chose. There were things she "chose" for us I would definitively NOT have. This wasn't what colored my attitude about electional astrology, but it does serve as another example (albeit a distinctly personal one) to go with my theory.

Oh well. Let's hope the new "birthdate" (whatever it is) is wildly successful for our sister forum.