This is a *fascinating* albeit sobering possibility..

[lildreamer316]

Was perusing Conscious Media Network and came upon this article:

The Real Reason For The "War On Smoking"

http://openfreepress.com/2009/07/08/real-reason-for-%E2%80%98war-on-smoking%E2%80%99/#more-519

"You see, what Nazi scientists discovered very soon into their research, was that carbon-monoxide, a central component of tobacco smoke, creates resistance to pathocratic influence: i.e. imbibers are more likely to question and less likely to blindly follow orders from psychopathic leadership (perhaps we could think of it as ‘attitude’, as symbolized by ’50s icons like James Dean and Marlon Brando). What is more, research also suggests ’second-hand smoke’, as breathed by children of smokers, may in fact immunise them against the influence of psychopaths. Hardly useful, one would suggest, if the objective is filling heads with supremacist beliefs and obtaining undivided loyalty."


Of course this is really a bit out there, but it is an interesting idea to entertain. I'm always suspicious with a "war" on anything, yanno??
I'm holding my shaker of salt in the other hand, however. LOL.

[SeattleGirl]

1. That IS fascinating, lildreamer.

And having been a smoker for the past "X" number of years, AND being one who absolutely does not follow blindly, it kind of makes sense to me.

It's just too bad that cigarettes are so toxic. (I've mostly quit, though still do indulge at times on weekends.)

[lildreamer316]

2. I'm wondering..

if 'natural' tobacco has the same effect. Would be interesting to find out. Not being a smoker, I have no idea. Husband is,though.
I know it's hard to quit. I don't give him any grief about it. I sorta subscribe to the whole "each individual has their own health" idea anyway. What is toxic to one person can be less so, or not at all to someone else. Just MHO, however. Besides, who wants to live forever?? At least, not in this body, lol.

[SeattleGirl]

3. Tobacco in it's natural state is, I believe, much less harmful than

cigarettes these days. The tobacco companies put so many toxins in them now; that's one of the reasons they are so hard to quit.

[NuttyFluffers]

27. it is also often stronger, and wild indian tobacco stronger still

that stuff was very potent, and much selective breeding was necessary to get the marketable product that has come through the 1600s to today.

[mntleo2]

22. Yeah I smoke too and am a "free thinker"

...but I thought it was because, being a smoker and in the minority made me kind of on the outside anyways.

Literally.

Since we have to be 25 feet away from any doors here and cannot smoke inside anywhere.

LOL!

Love
Cat

[northernlights]

4. actually, what "imbibing" carbon monoxide produces,

in high enough levels, is death. And you don't "imbibe" it, you inhale it. I'd really like to see the source (e.g. the science) for those claims.

Carbon monoxide is what kills you if you pipe car exhaust into your car or the garage to commit suicide. Carbon monoxide poisoning kills some number of people each year due to wood stove problems or furnace problems. And carbon monoxide poisoning is how many "pounds" (mostly in the south) kill dogs and cats.

The way it works is that it binds to your red blood cells instead of O2, and then it doesn't let go of the cells so your cells are starved of oxygen. Even at low levels, I fail to see how that would "immunise" you from psychopaths -- I can see how it might make you more passive.

I really would, however, be interested in serious research done on natural tobacco versus the commercial tobacco with its added nicotine and other added toxins.

[lildreamer316]

9. That's what I 'm thinking...

about the natural tobacco,that is. It would be interesting to see.

[silverweb]

5. Original article:

http://conspiracycentral.wordpress.com/2007/10/15/smoking-is-good-for-you/#comments

Consider the source.

[lildreamer316]

8. Ah. Well,

there we go.
Interesting idea to consider...but I guess I needed that shaker of salt, lol!

[glowing]

6. My hubby is Native American, and passing the pipe is tradition.

However, they discourage smoking brand cigs, and encourage switching to a American Spirits as a way to cut down on the need for smoking, and advize the best thing is to only partake when in ritual. The tobacco that is produced is full of crap from the fields its grown on, to the sowing, growing, and reaping, and then in the general manufacturing of the cigs. The tobacco smoked today is nothing like the tobacco that was smoked when Europeans first landed.

Also, the tobacco leaf has some neat healing properties. If you have a scrap or cut, you can use it like a bandage... will heal faster and will reduce any scaring. Just be careful how much you use and for how long because the leaf contains nicotine.

[Cleita]

7. Yes, I used to enjoy my pack a day before I gave it up and my late DH

enjoyed his pipe and we never followed anything in lock step either.

[rumpel]

10. Tabacco's mother is a serpent

I have posted about the book "The Cosmic Serpent", by anthropologist Jeremy Narby PhD before..

Why is it that Native Peoples rarely develop smoking related cancer?

I do not have access to my copy of the book at this time, so I checked online to see whether I can find an excerpt on tabacco. There are quite a few.

and here it is from an analysis of the book:

It was more and more clear for Narby that native Amazon inhabitants accessed information about the properties of plants in their Ayahuasca-induced visions, and that information could be scientifically verified. There were too many coincidences.

The question he asked himself was: 'Did this information come from inside the human brain, as stated by science, or from the external world of plants, as the Indians claimed?'

Narby was totally convinced that everything he saw with Ayahuasca had not previously existed in his mind and that it was impossible that his mind had processed it.

and:

Many times, as Narby tells, it was not easy to explain how they healed.
But they healed:

- When you have healed someone, as you have healed Sabino the other day, how does tobacco work? If you are the one inhaling the smoke, how can tobacco heal the person who is not smoking?
- I always say that it is tobacco's property to show me real things. I can see things the way they really are. And he drives out all pains.
- Oh, but how has that property been discovered? Does tobacco only grow in the jungle?
- There is a place, for example, in Napiari, where tobacco grows abundantly.
- Where?
- On the Perene. We have learned about its power through Ayahuasca, that other plant, since it is the mother.
- Which is the mother, tobacco or Ayahuasca?
- Ayahuasca.
- And tobacco is its son?
- It is its son.
- Because tobacco is not as strong, right?
- It is less strong.
- You have told me that both tobacco and Ayahuasca contain gods.
- That is so.

http://www.enjoyperu.com/peru_travel_tours_information/ayahuasca/fourth_chapter_fulfilment_in_rio.html


ok, I admit - American Spirit blue is my brand...:blush:

[Richard D]

11. Interesting . . .

. . . but most curanderos I've spoken with in the Amazon consider tobacco to be the more powerful of the two plants. Of course, they use tobacco in ways that boggle the mind - drinking fairly large quantities of tobacco for example. This puts them into a deep near-death trance state for a long time while the plant heals and teaches. Not pleasant at all either nor recommended without professional guidance as a slightly wrong dose can kill.

The tobacco used there is different than the tobacco here. It's nicotiana rustica, much stronger than the tobacco used for smoking here. Pretty intense stuff that few people inhale. It's used a lot in the ayahuasca ceremonies as a way to clear blockages and to provide protection.

Quite a fascinating world view and a culture I've been privileged to spend time with.

[rumpel]

12. very interesting..

drinking tobacco must be quite intense...understandably only to be used for ceremonies.

Mr. Narby, in the "Cosmic Serpent" speaks of many medicinal plants of the Amazon, and how the pharmaceutical industries have been exploiting the wisdom of the shamans of these plants. According to him, the problems we have with pharmaceuticals is that the plants have not been asked for assistance during harvest, as the shamans would, or chemically reconstituted without being taught how by the plants, and therefore making them toxic in some instances...

It must have been fascinating spending time with the indigenous peoples there...

someday, when you have time would you care to share?

I always think of the film "Emerald Forrest" when I think of the Amazon...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089087/

Beautiful cinematography

[Richard D]

14. That was one of my favorite movies.

There's a book called Money into Light by John Boorman that is about the making of Emerald Forest. Quite interesting.

It's not only that the plants aren't being spoken to, it's that the pharmaceutical model strips out what they think is the active ingredient and then synthesizes it if possible. All the other constituents of the plant are discarded. This is a problem because in the view of medicine people there, the plants carry an intelligence and they communicate that intelligence through their chemistry. So each part is considered integral to the proper and safe effect of the plant. Taking one alkaloid out of many leaves behind the communication (effect) of those other chemicals.

[rumpel]

15. yes, I understand...that is the "energy" or soul of the plant

I have to check out the making of..
I never forget the opening scene..the green, you could feel the moisture. :)

[Richard D]

17. That's what it's like there.

99 or so percent humidity, oxygen you can practically drink. It's an intense place and those who know how to survive there without destroying it are a precious treasure.

[Shallah Kali]

13. doubt it. I know too many authoritarians who smoke to believe this

I also know too many smokers who go into abusive relationship with control freaks, get out of it then go into yet another relationship with another like the first to believe this.

More likely imo the smoking bans come about because the ptb finally figured out it made too many people sick so they couldn't consume enough before becoming seriously ill. maybe it is a distraction to legalizing less toxic marijuana as well :shrug: My father was a smoker who died of lung cancer. It was horrible to see a strong man shrink and waste away, eaten alive by the tumor. With all the statistical studies showing the links between smoking and cancer and other diseases I don't think it is worth the risk hoping that some site on the internet is right and it will make one immune to psychopaths.

[Celebration]

16. I'm skeptical

I thought the reason that there is a lot of road rage is because people get stuck in traffic on freeways and breathe in a lot of carbon monoxide. Well, maybe it releases their inhibitions and they go ballistic, eh?

[Shallah Kali]

18. If it was really a gov 'War' on tobacco they would have banned it like marijuana, lsd etc

when is the last time the authorities raided place for smoking the way they have hospices and medical marijuana clinics?

the more I think of this the more I think the restrictions on tobacco really are motivated by those who want people to be healthier not some cabal who wants malleable puppets.

I know anecdote does not = data but in my personal experience most of the non-smokers I know are more liberal leaning and the smokers are right leaning. Maybe it would make a difference if people used pure tobacco not these toxic chemical laden tobacco products most use :shrug: I figure it more likely anything that is as highly addictive as the usual cigarettes can only benefit those who want people easily manipulated. just my opinion.

[SheilaT]

19. Sounds pretty bogus to me.

But then, I've never smoked and I don't follow orders blindly.

[BlueIris]

20. While I'm usually the first person to whip out the tin foil hat, I'm pretty sure

the reasons for the war on smoking are about its toxicity--to the smokers and those in their vicinity.

[Why Syzygy]

21. Cigarettes are not as toxic as advertised.

There are usually a few of us out on the big boards who wage this information campaign every time the subject arises. There are plenty of reasons to quit (smelly/expensive). But the truth is, the perils are way over stated. Yes, smokers have died from diseases, just as non-smokers have died from horrible diseases. My personal anecdote is that three close family members have had cancer and non of them smoked or had been exposed to second hand smoke. Remember, not too long ago marijuana was demonized. All but the most rabid right winger now knows those are all bogus reports.

Doesn't it make sense than an ineffectual medical community might attempt to find a scapegoat to explain away its own inadequacies? If it is a scapegoat that is sure to never go away, people will always smoke no matter what, all the better! They can continue to blame this ONE habit for the increasing numbers of ill and dying people rather than accepting the true blame that they don't know what the hell they are doing.


About 50 years ago, a campaign began to blame smoking for cancer. Cancer had become such a terrifying disease that the word "cancer" was often alluded to rather than speaking the name aloud, even being referred to as the C disease. The American Cancer Society, having failed to produce significant results in fighting cancer, chose to erect smoking as a straw man to take heat off themselves. Since that beginning, one of the world's great frauds has proceeded, to demonize smoking to the point that most people believe there is unquestionable scientific evidence that smoking is a major killer. When even that level of fright didn't convince smokers to quit, the spectre of "secondhand" smoke was created out of thin air, to continue the campaign that was making so many organizations rich on donations and tax money in hopes of actually curing cancer. Deception, outright lies, and statistical trickery have been used to such a great and effective extent that "junk science" has spread to many other areas. (...)

http://smith.mn/smoking.html

snips

A new report based on research from the World Health Organization, reproduced in full. (color emphasis is mine)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Researchers said they were surprised and even embarrassed to find that smoking cigarettes apparently reduces the risk of breast cancer among women with an unusual gene mutation.

Researchers caution that the study does not mean women should smoke.

"The risks of smoking are so serious that there's absolutely no reason that any woman should consider smoking whether she is at high risk or low risk for breast cancer," said Dr. Lynn Schuchter, an oncologist at the University of Pennsylvania Cancer Center.

Smokers had half as many cancers (...)

"No statistically significant relationship was found in either community between smoking and coronary heart disease, hypertension or somatic complaints"

1477. University of Texas School of Allied Health Sciences. Philips, B.U., Jr.; Bruhn, J.G. "Smoking Habits and Reported Illness in Two Communities With Different Systems of Social Support." FUNDING: Univ. of Texas; National Institute of Mental Health. 1981-83.

Smoking improves human information processing.

Higher nicotine cigarettes produce greater improvements than low-nicotine cigarettes.
Nicotine tablets produce similar effects.
Nicotine can reverse the detrimental effects of scopolamine on performance
Smoking effects are accompanied by increases in EEG arousal and decreases in the latency of the late positive component of the evoked potential."

0574. University of Reading, Department of Psychology (England). Warburton., D.M.; Wesnes, K. "The Effects of Cigarette Smoking on Human Information Processing and the role of Nicotine in These Effects "

http://smith.mn/research.html


Nicotine studied as treatment for brain disorders

By Carey Goldberg, Globe Staff | November 12, 2003

Scientists reported yesterday that nicotine seems to diminish mental impairment stemming from stress or an underactive thyroid -- the latest in a growing body of evidence that the long vilified substance may help people with brain disorders ranging from Alzheimer's disease to schizophrenia.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/11/12/nicotine_studied_as_treatment_for_brain_disorders/

[JanusAscending]

23. These findings were one of the reasons

I continued to smoke even though I have COPD, and of course...my Dr. kept bugging me to quit! However, having lost my Mom to Alzheimers (she never smoked) and being in a deep depression, I felt it was worth taking a chance that perhaps these findings were correct. However, now I can no longer afford to smoke. I find eating much more necessary!!

[Why Syzygy]

24. I would never encourage

anyone to start. It IS an addiction, usually. And the oxygen deprivation for heavy smokers doesn't help. It ages your skin. But, I can only hear so much of the brainwashing propaganda before I have to say something. It's true that doctors used to sometimes recommend smoking. Don't start, but if you do, do not WORRY. Worry makes more people sick than smoking. immho

[Mnemosyne]

26. Please excuse the pun but, 'smoke and mirrors' is much of it. The air itself

contains so much crap from industry and vehicles, the difference is that smoking is so much easier to demonize and distract with because it's so in your face, so to speak.

More protecting of corps, indirectly. jmho

[Mist]

25. I *KNEW* smoking wasn't ALL bad! nt