Okay, anything that potentially could harm my child....

[OneGrassRoot]

can easily send me into a dark spiral. Though I do take appropriate measures to prevent and certainly continue to function -- I don't shut down or anything -- my mind can easily go to a very dark place.

I'm sure I'm not alone there. :)

This H1N1 virus and how they are saying it affects healthy young people, and that cytokine storm is an issue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

I am normally not affected by hype or discussion about the flu. I've never had a flu vaccine, neither has my now 16-year-old.

Reading how this flu potentially affects healthy young people, and that vaccination of those under 24 may be mandatory, I'm getting nervous.

Anything which potentially affects our kids probably makes us all nervous.

The Powers That Be always hype the next "pandemic," but there seems to be something different about this in how they're approaching it. They're trying NOT to alarm, but I sense they ARE alarmed.

What are your thoughts, intuitive feelings, etc.?

My inclination is always to simply keep her as healthy as possible, which is a daily challenge since the child resists taking vitamins, though she essentially eats a fairly healthy diet.

It seems like boosting the immune system via preventive measures may not be the best approach here due to the cytokine storm issue?

:shrug:

:cry:

I'm going to step away from this fear energy now. :)

:grouphug:

[Sienna86]

1. Having same thoughts

Going through the same thought process myself. Do I go along with the vaccination process or not, and will the schools require it this fall? Will it help them or potentially harm them?

[OneGrassRoot]

3. ...

:hug:

ON EDIT: I'm detaching from this fear for now, yet realize I may be faced with it again when school starts. I may not be able to completely ignore it. ;)

More :hug:

[OneGrassRoot]

2. Different realities.....

I have definitely removed myself from this now. I will continue to stay aware and shall do the basics of preventive healthcare, as always.

But in posing this same question about H1N1 on another board, I was directed to Project Camelot.

I quickly knew I couldn't read much or watch any videos. No judgment toward those who do resonate with things such as Project Camelot, but what I realized is I choose to live in a different reality.

:)

As I've mentioned before, I can't even BEGIN to wrap my brain around parallel lives, different levels of existence within the same space, etc. Can't go there. LOL.

Still, in my own limited way, I believe I have SOME power to create my reality based on what I focus on and give my energy to.

Kind of like how I feel the right-wing crazies live in a completely different reality than I do. And I want to keep it that way, and not allow theirs to influence mine more than it already does.

;)

[Shallah Kali]

4. Disconnect from the dominant paradigm

in other words check for cords and connections to collective energy thoughforms. If you can't consciously sense they are there but suspect it visulize a cord connecting you to a dark cloud labeled with the thing you want to disconnect from. Sometimes i can trick myself out of disbelieving in my having any esp skills by saying to myself *pretend* I am psychic. Since I am not psychic where would the cord be so i can stop feeding this collective fear (or whatever)? Then breath light into your body where the connection is rooted. Breath it in so that like blowing on a hot coal makes it burn faster and hotter the cord where it touches your body burns up thereby transmuting and healing the spot where the cord is formed.

Another trick I use to play with fear energy or other bad vibes, whether my own or picked up from others, is to gather it up from me with my hands, roll it into a ball, put a bit of good energy into it to transmute it, then using my intent program it to fix something, usually whatever it is that is bothering me - in this case worry about swine flu and vaccine for it - then toss it out into the air like releasing a bird to go out and do it's work in the universe. During the exercise I imagine my hands are like giant gold mesh strainers that can reach inside as well as around me collecting every bit of bad vibes possible without doing anything to all the good healthy stuff.

As for getting your child to take vitamins does she hate taking the pills? I used to have a lot of trouble swallowing pills esp. after having choked on some as a kid so my throat would tighten when taking 'em making it even harder to swallow. Taking pills even big ones can be made much easier if swallowed in something soft like apple sauce or pudding.

It looks to me that some want people to panic over this and make a big profit over this (example http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3991697&mesg_id=3991697 ) rather than keep people healthy. It is like the gov stockpiling Tamilfu when reports were coming in on early cases that it did not help fight swine flu and thinking of letting them use it on little kids in spite of dangerous and sometimes deadly side effects in children. Oh and the company hired by the US gov to make the swine flu vaccine some how accidentally put live bird flu in a regular flu vaccine in europe which should not be possible if baxter was following protocol for handling such a high risk virus. & oh as posted in the above link the gov. is buying experimental additives to put in the swine flu vax to get more shots from smaller amounts of vax and they don't know what it will do to the people they give it too :crazy: Makes me want to don my :tinfoilhat: and go

I try to focus on using emotion constructively and finding practical things I can do to keep healthy such as taking selenium as it is proven to reduce the mutation of viruses at least in lab animals. an alternative for someone who doesn't like vitamins would be to eat a brazil nut a day which I read is the highest selenium food out there so that one is enough to get the RDA :) I am already a compulsive hand washer so that is no problem tho I do encourage others to engage in a more reasonable level but better than the national average of cleanliness. I hate using public restrooms because I see so many leave without washing their hands even when there is no line at the sinks :hides: Sometimes it is all I can do not to go back and wash my hands again when I see it. {{{shudder}}}

[OneGrassRoot]

9. You always provide such marvelous...

detailed "how-to" instructions, Shallah. I love that. I am going to work with what you've suggested here when I sense that fear energy creeping back in.

I'm not sure why Taylor resists taking vitamins so much. I've tried small gelcaps (searched everywhere to find a small one-a-day gelcap for teens), powder form, everything. While she eats well, she resists taking supplements until she starts to get symptoms, which drives me bonkers. I then repeat what I've said a million times about PREVENTING things BEFORE they start. Oy. She definitely resists it though. I need to explore that further with her today, calmly, to see if it's just a rebellion thing against me since it's something I've pushed -- gently most of the time -- since she was little.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

:hug:

[northernlights]

5. 1st, the vaccine will not be mandatory for anybody

except (likely) healthcare workers. Due to limited availability, they are recommending making the vaccine *available* to a prioritized list of people:

"On July 29, 2009, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)—an advisory committee to CDC—recommended that novel H1N1 flu vaccine be made available first to the following five groups (News Release):

Pregnant women

Health care workers and emergency medical responders

People caring for infants under 6 months of age

Children and young adults from 6 months to 24 years

People aged 25 to 64 years with underlying medical conditions (e.g. asthma, diabetes)"
http://www.pandemicflu.gov/vaccine/vacresearch.html#campaign

Second, re: cytokine storm

Young people are not affected by this virus due to cytokine storm. They are affected because they were never exposed to the swine flu in the 70s, so have no acquired immunity to it. Their immune systems have never been exposed before, so they are more susceptible.

The immune system works in 2 stages: 1st is a generic response that recognizes only the the pathogen is "not us". The 1st response generates local inflammation and also generates cytokine, which triggers the "adaptive response" that learns to recognize the specific pathogen and creates antibodies specific to it (including "memory" antibodies that react to future infections).

Children are also more heavily affected because of their normal personal hygiene (or lack thereof ;)) and close contact with each other.

(I know cytokine storm was discussed a lot on DU as one possible cause for the high mortality in Mexico. That, apparently, did not turn out to be the cause of the high mortality rate.)


My personal concern is that given the easy, fast spread and high mutation rate of this virus (as I recall it was showing resistance to Tamiflu a couple months ago) that we could end up with work closures. I am planning for this as I would for any winter emergency: make sure I have food stock for 2 weeks for everybody, etc.

It's the easy and quick spread, combined with lack of prior exposure by a large segment of the population, that has officials concerned, especially as it could adversely impact the economy if companies were forced to shut down for weeks at a time. And if it were to mutate to a more virulent strain, then it could be a major disaster. That is why they are tracking it so carefully and making vaccine available.

[southerncrone]

6. Just wondering if you might know--

In the '70's, I was vaccinated against the "Swine Flu" (known as Legionerre's disease then). Would this possibly have allowed me to transfer immunity to my two children (ages 20 & 22)?

After recently reading about the vaccine I received in the '70's, I discovered that it was associated with the Epstein-Barr virus. Coincidently, I was diagnosed w/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome 10 yrs ago, based on the fact that Epstein-Barr virus showed up in my blood work (25 yrs after my vaccine). Needless to say, I was rather pissed about the vaccine after reading that. I also had a fellow college student who was partially paralyzed by that vaccine in the '70's--ended up in a wheelchair at the age of 20!
I REALLY DO NOT TRUST VACCINES NOW! Then there's that woo-woo idea of chip implants, too.

[SheilaT]

7. Swine Flu was NOT the same as Legionnaire's Disease.

Legionnaire's was a bacterial infection which caused pneumonia.

Flu is viral.

They are totally different.

And the flu vaccine for the swine flu in 1976 was a complete and total disaster, and I'm always sorry that anyone at all succumbed to the hype and got the vaccine. It was so obvious that the vaccine was rushed into production and was a disaster waiting to happen.

I keep on being amazed at the gullibility of so many out there about the supposed disastrous epidemic of swine flu which will infect almost everyone and kill many. The comparisons to 1918 are so tenuous and misplaced that it's actually laughable. To start with, indoor plumbing barely existed 90 years ago. Overall sanitation was much lower, and simple hand-washing as we know hardly existed. Plus the other huge factor was the packing together of soldiers in crowded and often unsanitary conditions, young men who literally had just come from the farm, and known few other humans in their lives and so had relatively naive immune systems. As those soldiers were infected, they were then shipped off on trains and in troop ships to infect others.

We have running water, hot and cold running water I might add, in pretty much every single home in America, not to mention in many public places. We don't have a war going on, we don't have thousands of young men with less than wonderful immune systems crowded together and being sent off to infect others.

Despite all the amazing hype this spring about the H1N1 flu it turned out to be relatively mild, milder than most flu strains. There's this constant drum beat of how it will inevitably turn deadly. Every single flu season for as long as I can remember there's been the same hype about flu season. Every single year. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[OneGrassRoot]

8. It does make you wonder....

and I've always disregarded the hype. I think it was mention of "mandatory vaccine" for those under 24 that got my attention and I succumbed to the fear for a couple of hours yesterday morning.

I'm not talking about the H1N1 any more for a while after thanking people for their insight in this thread. ;)

:hug:

[kimmerspixelated]

12. Excellent response.

Thanks. Everyone should read this.

[southerncrone]

13. Perhaps I was mistaken in thinking that the 1976 Swine Flu was

also known as Legionnaire's disease. I do think that they "made the news" around the same time period. It's been so long now that I could easily have confused them.

Anyway, I didn't just "succumb to the hype & get the vaccine", we were mandated to get it if we attended public universities. This was only required for a few weeks, as I recall, & then they flip-flopped on that & said we didn't need to. However, some of us had already gotten them. Seems like there was a rolling vaccination schedule.....city by city, or by last name or some other scheduling deal. It may have only been done that way in my state, I don't know. It has, after all, been close to 30 yrs ago!

So, my vaccination then was just a waste, or obviously worse? And my kids won't have any protection via my system?

Please give details about it being "a disaster waiting to happen". I'd really like to know more about what was done to me then. Thanks.

[northernlights]

14. immunity is not passed from parent to child

except a little for nursing infants, I believe, through the colostrum.

We each have to develop our own disease-specific immunity. That's why kids are so susceptible to everything. We are born with a fully functioning "innate" immune system -- the 1st line response that recognizes "self" versus "not self." We develop disease-specific immunity each time we are exposed to a pathogen.

[SheilaT]

15. I was in my late 20's in 1976 and

from the very beginning of the entire Swine Flu thing I was highly suspicious, and I was even more dismayed and made wary by the whole rush to create a vaccine, and it was obvious to the most casual observer that the vaccine was being rushed out there without adequate safeguards or testing to see if it was even minimally effective.

The Legionnaire's disease got it's name because of a convention in Philadelphia of the American Legion, and a relatively large number of attendees -- most of whom were elderly to begin with -- started dying from a particularly virulent strain of pneumonia. The two had absolutely nothing in common, other than happening to occur in the same year, although some months apart. Keep in mind, that there was never an outbreak of swine flu in 1976, just one soldier at Fort Dix who did die from it.

I don't know what you mean about "a disaster waiting to happen", other than a mass forced immunization of a population with a relatively untested new vaccine strikes me as a very bad idea.

[southerncrone]

16. You used the phrase "disaster waiting to happen" in your reply.

That is what I was referring to. I inferred from your post that you might have more in depth knowledge about that vaccine & was hoping you could enlighten me more about it, that is all.

As I recall, we would not have lined up for this with out basically being forced to do so. I was absolutely petrified of shots in those days, so I certainly would not have "volunteered" for the vaccine. We were told we MUST get it if we wanted to return to college.

I do remember the story on Legionnaire's disease. I took them weeks or months to figure out what had happened. It had to do with a poorly ventilated, or dirty, air-conditioning system, didn't it? I always felt like the whole deal was odd, if not suspicious.
As I look back now, it sounds like the beginnings of their figuring out that molds in our buildings could make people sick. Or perhaps just a good cover story for some other mischief. Or to placate the public & tamp down the fear. :shrug:

[SheilaT]

17. I don't have any inside knowledge about

the vaccine, but it seemed to me even at the time that such a rush to bring a vaccine to market did fit the description of "a disaster waiting to happen".

Now the disaster waiting to happen is giving the vaccine first to pregnant women. Did they learn nothing from the thalidomide disaster of the late 50's and early 60's? Up until then there was a belief that the placenta was an insurmountable barrier to drugs and other nasty things -- even though it was already known that women who contracted such diseases as German Measles ran a high risk of birth defects (for German Measles it was deafness, as I recall). Thalidomide proved for once and for all that lots of things did cross the placental barrier and could do terrible harm to developing fetuses. Every single pregnant woman who gets this new flu vaccine will be a guinea pig, pure and simple for it's effects.

Just as in 1976 a vaccine was rushed to production and distribution with minimal testing, this new vaccine is also being rushed to production. I do seem to recall that in 1976 the pharmaceutical companies producing the swine flu vaccine asked for and got indemnity from any harm the vaccine might cause. Are they asking that again this time?

I have a cousin who developed Guillain-Barré syndrome as a child, around fifty years ago now, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

And you are right about Legionnaire's being an important event in our understanding of how buildings can contribute to making people sick. The Legionnaire's bacteria can hang out in water in air conditioning units, which is apparently what happened at that convention in Philadelphia in 1976.

[southerncrone]

20. I have no doubt that the Big Phama will twist arms

(i.e. grease palms) to get whatever they want, especially indemnity. It has certainly worked in the past & they are conditioned to get their way. Wouldn't you like it if you didn't have any responsibility for the outcome of your actions? Just do ANYTHING you desired with no accountability after the fact. Sweet deals.

But that is the problem w/corporations. People (at least most of them) have consciences.....corporations do not because they are not human....just a "collection" of humans. The corporate beast is our enemy by design. A facade used to transfer wealth while those who actually reap the massive rewards hide behind the "corporate" front.

If we don't get our business regulatory practices back in place, the world economy will implode soon & we will ALL be indentured servants. Actually, we're little more than that now.

I'm waiting for Big Pharma to shove the MANDATORY vaccine program out again. Talk about a cash cow for them & a wonderful fear-inducing tactic to keep Amurikuns in line. I just hope it doesn't work this time. What would happen if the majority of people refused to get the vaccines?
It would be interesting to watch their reaction.

You can't help but question these rushed vaccines today, just as you said, because of the history of the Thalidomide problems. I know a number of victims of that mess in our generation. I think that Big Pharma is rushing all drugs to market & the FDA is allowing this. I remember when it took decades for FDA to approve new drugs because they did thorough studies & tests on them. Now you wonder if they even look at them. Just think of all the ones taken off the market after extreme side effects show up very quickly in patients; Baycol immediately comes to mind & I know there are lots of others that I don't recall by name right now.

[SheilaT]

21. Well said.

I recently went to work at a hospital, and I was relieved that they didn't require the flu vaccine of all employees. I am simply not willing to get a flu vaccine in normal years, and would not even be willing to get one to keep a job.

[OneGrassRoot]

10. Thanks for your professional insight!

You understand the physiology of this more than I, so thanks for explaining, specifically, cytokine and the immune response.

Great information.

Thanks, northernlights! :hug:

I'm staying away from thinking about the flu now. ;)

[kimmerspixelated]

11. I was worried as well, but they say Vit D3 is wonderful for

working with the cytokines, keeping it all in balance. For my 12 year old, she is at least good about taking vits. So, we got some new D3 today!

[FirstLight]

18. Hey - what about those of us with auto-immune issues!?

My family carries PsA, Psoriatic Arthritis, and it seems that the getetic mutation remains recessive until a trauma or something triggers it to go nuts...

I have speculated often that being a child in the 70's and immunized against who knows what could have set this thing off... in fact, i can tell you that my first symptoms showed up after my 12 yearold boosters...

dunno if I was one of the 1976 vaccinated group, did they do young kids? (I was 6 at the time.)

Anyway, as result of my research I decided to NOT vaccinate my kids. and I feel very confident about that decision, because they seem to be stronger and less likely to be ill as far as I am concerned.

Currently, I have had to go on Embrel injections to get my arthritis and inflammation into remission. It is a TNF blocker (Tumor Necrosis Factor) which means I am more prone to getting cancer, but at least my body isn't attacking itself! yikes.
(my plan is to get solidly in remission and then get back into my holistic ways to keep it gone)

so am I more likely to get sick from something like the flu? I dunno.
are my kids?

I know I won't succumb to ANY mandatory injections, and they can go to hell before I let them near my kids too!

[northernlights]

19. Swine flu immunization won't be mandatory

As I posted above, there won't be sufficient flu vaccine to go around. The advisory board to the CDC has made a priority list to whom the vaccine will be AVAILABLE.

NOT MANDATORY.

AVAILABLE.

[get the red out]

23. Swine Flu is an opportunity

The Swine Flu, no matter the outcome, is an opportunity for fear peddlers everywhere. It will be difficult to get any good information because of this.

Thank you for your information regarding the flu. We will need to keep it in mind when the screaming fear gets cranked up in the fall.

[SheilaT]

22. For what it's worth, not all that many

people wound up being vaccinated against swine flu in 1976. Wait... let me do a Google search... well this is interesting. It appears that some 44 million Americans were supposedly vaccinated before the program was halted. Well, now. I was under the impression it was far, far fewer than that, and that adverse reactions popped up so quickly that they stopped vaccinating not long after starting.

Here's a link to an exceptionally good article about the 1976 swine flu outbreak
http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/08/revisiting_the_swine_flu_puzzl.php?utm_source=networkbanner&utm_medium=link
Not especially the analysis of why it spread among the soldiers and didn't spread to the outside population: the soldiers were young, had never been exposed to an H1N1 flu virus, were crowded together under conditions of stress. A lot like the soldiers in 1918, only in 1918 the sanitary conditions of the barracks would have been worse, plus in 1918 the newly infected soldiers were being continually and systematically shipped off to other places, where they could infect many others.

I keep on trying to point out that conditions today are vastly unlike 90 years ago, and I'm not sure anyone ever quite gets it.