School drill team commander faces hearing

[unhappycamper]

School drill team commander faces hearing
The Associated Press
Posted : Friday Feb 13, 2009 6:01:58 EST

AURORA, Colo. — A 17-year-old drill team commander for the Young Marines may learn Friday whether she'll be expelled for having the team's mock rifles in her SUV in the school parking lot.

Marie Morrow was suspended for 10 days from Cherokee Trail High School in the Denver suburb of Aurora and could be expelled under a state "zero-tolerance" law governing firearms on school property.

~snip~

Lane says school officials praised Morrow but said their hands were tied by state law. Cherry Creek School District officials say they can't comment.

Morrow is a senior in advanced placement classes with a 3.5 grade-point average and hopes to attend the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, one of five service academies. The Young Marines is a youth leadership program of the Marine Corps League, an organization for current and former Marines.

State Sen. Kevin Lundberg, R-Berthoud, says he plans to introduce a bill in the Legislature next week that would exempt facsimile weapons from the zero-tolerance law.


Rest of article at: http://marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/02/ap_co_drill_school_hearing_021209/%2e

[tinymontgomery]

1. This zero tolerance shit

has to go. They were mock drill rifles. We should suspend every student for carrying a pen, they could stick it in some ones eye. More stupid crap from stupid administrators.

[DrDan]

2. leave it to a republican - they just gotta have their guns

I wonder if he would consider a squirt gun, or a plastic gun a "facsimile". How about a real weapon with no bullets? Is that really a weapon or a facsimile until you put in a bullet.

Why don't they seek another way to perform their drills with something other than a fake-gun.

[ret5hd]

3. If they use it to practice their drills, WHATEVER they use is a fake gun.

It could be a round ball of pink cotton candy and by definition it would still be a fake gun.

[DrDan]

4. I don't think so

some kid who props a broom over his shoulder will not be disciplined under this rule.

[ret5hd]

5. 6th-grader's gesture triggers punishment

<snip>
Oklahoma boy gets in-school suspension for pointing finger like gun

Associated Press

MUSKOGEE, Okla. – An elementary school student who pointed his finger like a gun at classmates has been given five days of in-school suspension.
</snip>

[DrDan]

6. Americans are obsessed with guns. This is fed by an unreasonable and irrational NRA.

If we are erring in our approach to guns in schools - I hope it is an error on the side of restrictions.

I agree it is foolish that this child be given an in-school suspension - but lines have to be drawn somewhere. And I sympathize with those that have to determine where the lines are drawn. It is a no-win task.

I don't know the answer - except whatever rules are put into place, student safety has to drive them.

[ret5hd]

7. Don't start moving the goalposts...

i said anything they used could be construed as a fake gun.
you countered that brooms could not be construed as a fake gun.
i countered that in the past a finger has been construed as a fake gun.

don't make the mistake of assuming i'm a pro-gun bambi hunting nazi fetishist nut. cause i'm not.

[DrDan]

8. I made no such claim - do not put words in my posts.

As I said - I have no answer. I firmly believe we need rules that are based on safety. That is all I said.

So who moved the goal posts? Where is your argument that brooms could be construed as fake guns? Are you suggesting that some kid - not necessarily from the drill team - could put a broom over his shoulder and he would be disciplined? Why did you roam from that claim? Why did you move the goal posts? I did not introduce any argument about some kid using his fingers - you did? Why?

[ret5hd]

9. Why? My argument is ANYTHING, even a "nothing"...

(such as a pointed finger simulating the physical position of an imaginary "something") can be called a fake gun.

[DrDan]

10. but simulating pointing a gun and pulling a trigger is far from "nothing"

[ret5hd]

12. Correct. It is far from nothing. But it is still A "nothing" with which they are...

doing a "something".

[DrDan]

11. would you be willing to excuse some bully who simulated

some sexual movements - even though simulated - if directed toward some middle-school girl?

[ret5hd]

13. No. And no more so would i be willing to excuse some bully using...

his finger to simulate shooting if i perceived it to be done in a truly threatening manner.

You (purposely?) misconstrue the nature of the disagreement here.

[DrDan]

14. purposely? what are you implying?

so would the sexual intimidation be excused if it were only done as a joke? Something for the bully and his friend's amusement?

It seems you are arguing the rules surrounding weapons need to be based on actual risks and threats. I have a different opinion about that.

[ret5hd]

15. So you are arguing that rules surrounding weapons should be based...

on imaginary risks and threats?

[DrDan]

16. no - not imaginary - perceived -

by either a "victim" or a "bystander".

to do otherwise would open the door to all types of harassment. There has to be some level of control in the school. Setting up these rules is not a science - but an art. An imperfect one.

[DrDan]

17. so if we allow a child to point his finger at some classmate and simulate

pulling a trigger, would you be willing to allow a group of students to do this toward a selected student? Some group harassment?

[ret5hd]

18. What if a group of students pointed brooms toward a selected student?

[DrDan]

19. if they simulated striking or "pulling" a trigger, then discipline them.

my broom example involved simply putting it over a shoulder. There is no perceived threat with that.

[ret5hd]

20. Ok. Now what if a group of students had pieces of wood carved

into a crude profile of a gun, but they DIDN'T simulate pulling a trigger, or even point it at somebody?

[DrDan]

21. I think the "appearance" of a weapon can be perceived as a threat by some

this is probably a new phenomena spawned by Columbine or other school incidents - but nonetheless - something that causes a feeling of a real threat among students.

Lines have to be drawn somewhere. A real gun cannot be ignored. A broom in a closet is harmless. Someplace in the middle a line has to be drawn. Wherever that happens - someone will take issue.