The Few, The Proud (the Smart): Marines Figure it Out - It's Time to Quit Iraq

[unhappycamper]

The Few, The Proud (the Smart): Marines Figure it Out - It's Time to Quit Iraq
by Dave Lindorff | Oct 12 2007 - 10:07am


Over the past year, Bush has pretty much lost his entire Coalition of the Unwilling, with the British, who have already pulled back from Basra into their fortified base, now intending to quit Iraq altogher early next year

But before the Brits close the door behind them, someone else wants to leave too: the United States Marines, America's answer to ancient Greece's Spartan warriors.

According to a remarkable Wednesday article in the New York Times, the Marines have told the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates that they'd much prefer to leave Iraq and go take over the fighting in Afghanistan from the US Army, which has some 26,000 troops over there--just about the same number as the 25,000 Marines currently mired in Iraq.

~snip~

The Marines have clearly looked at Iraq and have seen it for the horrific, bloddy, hopeless mess that it is. And with recruitment a growing challenge, and their reputation in tatters thanks to the baby murders in Haditha, and the massive slaughter of thousands in Fallujah, they want to go somewhere, anywhere else, where they can at least claim they're acting under UN or NATO authority, where they won't be seen as occupiers, and where at least some of the people in the host country will like them.

Let the U.S. Army deal with President Bush's Iraq mess.

~snip~

I spoke with one Marine, a young man just back from a second tour of Iraq, who had been part of the assault on Fallujah in late 2004. "It was horrible," he said. "We went in there with no rules of engagement at all. It was just kill anything that moved. We were using hyperbaric explosives that, when you threw them into a house, sucked the life out of every living thing in the building. Then you'd walk in and find old men and little boys."


Rest of article at: http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/10411

[Captain Hilts]

1. Hell, the Marines went into Vietnam kicking and screaming-They know a losing battle when they see it

[morningglory]

2. I want to know if it was a Marine patrol that Blackwater held down with

guns after a fender bender. I believe the Marines would have fought back. My son was in the Marine band. He said they were marching in a Mardi Gras parade in New Orleans years ago when a cop stood in the middle of the road in front of the band and did not move. Marines prefer not to have their ranks broken. The band sergeant with the silver (heavy) mace who was leading the band, swinging the mace up, down, up, down, with the music, swung it up and WHAP! up side the cop's head, just to --you know-- send a little message. Several cops ran off the sidewalk and jumped the sergeant. The entire band dropped their instruments and dove into the melee. The cops were put in the hospital and the band was put in jail. Then the "commandante" or whoever at the Marine base, had peace negotiations with the police chief, and it worked out okay.

[frogcycle]

3. this has been a long time coming

I would love to know Peter Pace's true feelings on this debacle. He was a "good soldier" for a long time as JCS Chairman. I'd also like to know Gates' true feelings. Or for that matter, Petraeus'.

It is awfully hard to imagine that very many professional military people think what we are doing in Iraq is fitting and proper.

Powell's ominous warning "if you break it, you own it" probably runs through all their heads every day.

Our civilian control of the military - what is supposed to be a good thing, preventing military dictatorship and or wild warmongering by professional killers looking for a good time, as been successfully co-opted by what Ike warned of - the militaryindustrial complex. The industrial half of that monster, that makes profit feeding the military half, took over the government and thus took over civilian control. The neocons are nothing but a bunch of corporatists doing exactly what the Constitution tried to avoid.

When, pray tell, does an oath of allegiance to the Constitution finally demand an open defiance of the cabal? With so many former top military officers speaking out, there is no way the active duty brass collectively feel any different. Oh, sure, bush has purged a lot of the opposition, hand-picking toadies like Petraeus, but there are too many experienced senior officers, who, by the way, are more often than not very knowledgeable historians, students of war not just from the tactical but also the political viewpoint. Eventually the horror of continuing this madness in lieu of defending the nation has to force more to stick their necks out. The Founding Fathers put up with a lot of crap for a long time, had a lot of secret meetings, a lot of "what if?" and "should we?" discussions before finally putting their own lives and fortunes on the line*. When they came out publicly against the Crown they did not just have to worry about having their military career cut short and losing out on that fat post-retirement consulting job - they knew if they did not succeed they would hang.


* I have several times eaten in a restaurant in Old Town Alexandria in what was one of Washington's warehouses. Supposedly some of those meetings were held there. It is a truly awesome experience to sit there, looking at rough posts and overhead beams and realizing such conversations may have occurred in that very spot, perhaps with someone leaning against that very post...

It saddens me no end that the Great Experiment those people set in motion may have reached its closing days.

[w8liftinglady]

4. I want to know what the Marines' thoughts are of Blackwater

feel free to post here without impunity

[Captain Hilts]

5. Not fit for family viewing! nt

[NYVet]

6. The reason that they want to leave Iraq...

Al Quaeda is going back to Afghanistan where it is safer for them.

They want to make it less safe.