"Million Dollar Baby" and Condemnation of Religion

[Beetwasher]

I just saw this film for the first time this past weekend and I had no idea that it was going to be such a slam against religion, Xtianity in particular.

Anyone else see it?

It was a good film and really packed a powerful message about how utterly useless religion is in dealing with complex issues.

I mean, here you have a guy who goes to church every day for years and years and the priest is a total asshole who can't even hold a theological/philosophical discussion w/ Eastwood's character and basically just tells him to fuck off everytime Eastwood has questions. And then, when Eastwood is in need of real comfort and support, the priest is completely and utterly useless and no help at all.

[shrike]

1. I haven't seen the movie

But if I recall, Roger Ebert had the opposite impression of the priest character; he liked him.

However, I haven't seen the movie so I'll take your word for it. I'll have to rent it and see for myself. From what I've heard, "Million Dollar Baby" takes on some very serious issues and questions. Gotta get my butt to the video store.

I'm sure every person's experience is different, when seeking comfort at a time of need. While my father was dying, the priest who came to his bedside to give him last rites was an old friend of his. He told me later it was one of the hardest things he's ever done. (He's a hospital chaplain and it's part of his job to deal with the sick and dying.) He held our hands afterwards, prayed with us and then, when it was all over turned around and hugged me. It was wholly spontaneous, I could tell; but I'll tell you it was the nicest thing that happened to me during that whole ordeal.

[Beetwasher]

2. The Priest Was Comedy Relief In Some Ways

The banter between Eastwood and the Priest was funny, So I can see why Ebert liked him. But in some ways he was a pathetic character and clueless (IMO).

I'd be interested in your thoughts after you see the movie. It's on PPV now if you have it, that's where I saw it.

[shrike]

3. If I can remember to do so, I will post on here

I'll have to talk the husband into seeing it; it's not the religion that bothers him (he's agnostic), he just hates depressing movies.
But we both love Eastwood, so maybe this one we'll see.
Btw, I've met my share of jerks with collars. They're all over the place, unfortunately.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

6. Eh. Are you married to a clone of mine perchance?

I avoid depressing movies like the plague.

My DVD player came with a free copy of "Boys Don't Cry." It gathers dust in the shelf.

[shrike]

8. Hey, you never know

Everyone's supposed to have an identical twin somewhere.

[defiant1]

15. I swear....

About 4 years ago, I saw a guy who looked just like me(except with a goatee), in the crowd during an episode of Montel Williams.

It was scary to say the least, as any identical twin of mine should know better than attend a taping of that buffoon.

*edited for spelling*

[shrike]

16. The husband supposedly has an identical twin in Fort Wayne

He's had people walk up to him, pat him on the back and say, "Hey, John, how're you doin'?" Freaky to say the least.
He's never had the courage to go down to Fort Wayne (we live in Indiana) to see what he looks like.

[onager]

4. This reminds me of a recent loss...

I posted earlier about my old boss dying recently.

Another good friend and co-worker died the Sunday before Labor Day. His wife and 19-yr-old son have been incommunicado, so it wasn't until today that I heard about how he died from a close family friend.

The story of how he died is sad (of course), but I guess you'd call it "inspirational" to a diehard atheist like me. The guy clearly had some unfinished business, and wasn't going to die until he felt it was finished.

If he had any religious feelings I never heard about them, and he and I were pretty close at times. We worked and lived together in Saudi Arabia under some pretty difficult conditions. In the 15+ years I knew him, I never heard him invoke the name of god, unless it was followed by "dammit."

I only mention that in case any Xian ghouls are lurking and want to find some religious meaning in this. Nothing turns on a certain kind of Xian more than a deathbed story. And I don't particularly want to see someone rushing in here with a string of platitudes about angels whispering in his ear or any other Woo-Woo bullshit.

He had suffered with cancer for some time, and had a hospice set up in his living room. A hospice worker stayed with the family 24/7.

As I heard it, one of the things the hospice worker tells the family is that they should really let the dying person know "it's ok to let go." And not struggle any more.

I also heard that my friend had tried over and over to talk to his son in private. His son kept finding excuses not to do that.

On Sunday morning, the son finally told his mother and the hospice worker to take a hike, he wanted to talk to his father privately.

By the time his mother and the hospice worker came back, the son simply said: "Dad's gone."

Sorry about the length, but this has been on my mind all day. Thanks for listening.

[beam me up scottie]

5. Damn, O.

What a rough couple of weeks you've had, eh?
Sorry about the loss of your friend.

Sounds like he went out on his own terms.
It is sad to lose someone you are close to, but I envy him for being able to make peace with himself and his family.

May we all be fortunate enough to leave the world with family surrounding us and the knowledge that we're ready.

We're here for you.

~L

[Beetwasher]

7. Sorry Man

Yeah, I know how you feel...

"And I don't particularly want to see someone rushing in here with a string of platitudes about angels whispering in his ear or any other Woo-Woo bullshit."

[shrike]

10. I'm not surprised

I've heard many stories about a loved one hanging on, until so-and-so arrives, or until such-and-such happens. I even heard of a woman who hung on until her 80th birthday, because she didn't want to die before then.

I'm a religious person and I see nothing at all religious about this particular experience. My sister was an ICU nurse, worked with many critical and dying patients, and she said the dying are much more aware than we think. They know what's going on around them, and they will "hang on" tenaciously to life if there is indeed unfinished business to attend to.

My husband and his late father never got along. As dad lay dying, he looked up at my husband, gave him the ring off his finger and said, "I'm sorry." And they both knew what he was talking about. He died a short time later.

It's always hard to lose someone. But their presence is always with you, in the form of memories. I've found that to be true with my dad; it's like I take him with me wherever I go.

[Shell Beau]

9. I didn't see it that way at all.

I thought that even though he was very religious and adamant about going to the priest, he was just beyond forgiving himself. The priest couldn't help him in this situation b/c he wasn't willing to forgive himself. And by helping Swank's character, it set him free in a way of his guilt.

[Beetwasher]

11. Well, That's The Point, The Priest Told Him NOT To Help Maggie

and to let god handle it. The priest gave him no comfort at all and essentially told him to leave it to god and to go on suffering w/ his guilt.

[shrike]

12. Well, at first glance

No priest would tell a parishioner to yank life support from a paralyzed patient (I know the basic story so nothing's been spoiled for me.) So to me that's pretty realistic. No priest would do that. Wouldn't happen. But I'll have to wait and see the movie so I can gauge the rest of the priest's reaction.

[Beetwasher]

13. I Know That

And that's why I'm saying this movie was a condemnation of religion...It showed how inept and useless it is in handling complex situations (at least IMO). The priest was completely inept at comforting Clint's character in any meaningful way or in giving him and meaningful advice or guidance. He was just giving him the rote answers that he was SUPPOSED to give.

[shrike]

14. That's certainly a valid way to look at it.

My point was, a movie priest who advises a parishioner to pull life support would be a jarring right-turn into fantasyland. I think we were talking about two different things here. In terms of the director's choices, he created a realistic priest, at least in that regard.

Oh well, I'll shut up until I actually see the film.

[Beetwasher]

18. Oh, Yeah, No Doubt!

I do think he was trying to create a realistic priest! That's why I think one of the main themes is a condemnation of religion! They created a situation that is also quite real and yet one in which a "realistic" priest was essentially useless or in fact counter-productive. If Clint's character followed the priests advice instead of listening to his heart (if you will), then his character would have never been able to live with himself. (Yikes, I'm probably spoiling the whole film for you! Sorry! But you sorta asked for it! ;-))

No need to shut up! You're input has been welcome! Definitely see the film though, it's quite good!

[onager]

17. Has this ever happened to anyone else?

Sorta off-topic. But I guess it fits under "condemnation" (or ignoring) of religion.

Back in South Carolina, an old family friend just died. (As noted elsewhere, I'm losing people at a damned alarming rate lately.)

This one was not unexpected. The woman was 84 years old and had been in poor health for some time.

AFAIK, she was a devout and lifelong Baptist. To the point where, as much as I loved her, she could annoy me no end with her frequent outbursts about Heaven and Gawd.

OK, here's the funny thing.

When she died, she left strict instructions for her last rites, which included...

No preachers, no church funeral and no religious music.

A family friend gave a brief eulogy before the burial and that was it.

Has this happened to anyone else?

My mother has also given me strict directions for her funeral: no open casket and "no sad church music." I'm allowed to play anything by Elvis Presley, though.

Maybe I'll send her off with "One Night" or "Hunka-Hunka Burnin' Love..."