Behold the oppression inherant in the system

[Az]

I thought it might be a good idea for us to share stories of forms of oppression we have experienced due to our lack of belief in this society. It may provide some catharsis and perhaps give us some responses when such matters come up.

I'll start:

I have a number of bumper stickers I used to place on my car. They all had magnetic backings so I could change the messages per my mood. Most of them were declarations of my atheism or support for science and evolution(including the manidtory Evolve/Darwin Fishies). My primary purpose for having them on my car was to let other atheists know they are not alone out there. And this would quite often pay off with thumbs up and positive comments from other drivers.

But of course this is not the only reaction. Here is a list of things that were done to my car because of the stickers.

Countless fingers raised in my direction
2 key jobs
Many pamphlets left on my car informing me that I am evil and going to hell
Hand written notes informing me that I am stupid, foolish, evil, and deluded
A WWJD bracelet wrapped around my windshield wiper
2 complete sets of stickers stolen (ironic considering thou shall not steel)
1 set of stickers removed from the back of the car and placed on the side (I can only imagine they remembered that pesky steeling commandment half way through it)
Followed into parking lots and evangelyzed on a number of occaisions
10 bibles dumped on my trunk on one occaision

In highschool (long time ago) I walked into my Advanced Chem class to find all the chairs arrainged in a circle. On the board in front of the class were the words Origin of Life. Seems the teachers had decided to deal with the uncomfortable issue of evolution and life by letting the class work it out for themself. I was the only active speaker for evolution. Later the next day I found a note in my chem book that read "believe in god or else". Charming.

I have a friend that had a Darwin fish on his car. While driving down the freeway a large pickup truck rolled up along side and shouted something about dirty atheist and tried to force him off the road.

Thats all I can think of right now off the top of my head. So what has happened to you due to your lack of comformity in matters of belief?

[trotsky]

1. In the days when all I had was a Darwin fish on my car,

I never got keyed, but I got:

Middle fingers and road rage
A windshield wiper stolen
A Chick tract! Yes!
And finally, the fish ripped off and stolen

Once when I got a LTTE published (back before the days of CallerID, unfortunately) I got two death threats via phone calls.

Oh and when I was posting on a newsgroup once, someone was able to look me up via my school information and wrote me a letter telling me I was going to hell and was a dirty atheist. (Which was totally wrong, because even as a college slob I showered every day.)

Still, though, apparently only Christians are persecuted in the US today.

[Modem Butterfly]

2. I got fired for being an atheist once

Flat out told face-to-face that the fact that I "had no god" made the owner uncomfortable, and given fifteen minutes to pack up my things. Now, I had been working as a headhunter, so I had a lot of commission outstanding. I had an employment attorney at the time who helped me get my commissions, but I was unable to get anyone to touch the discrimination case. I realized at the time that it would be difficult to prove because there were no witnesses and this was a very small firm.

[phantom power]

3. It's what Jesus would do. Fire the unbelievers.

Fuck that noise about turning the other cheek or spreading the Word through good works.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Az]

5. I talked to her extensively

And I believe the crisis was real in her mind.

[trotsky]

7. I sure hope that was the case.

The way the related thread in the religious group played out, it was really hard to tell.

[Modem Butterfly]

19. Not to be petty

But the slap in the face was public. IMO, there should be an equally public explanation.

[Az]

23. Honestly

I expect she is quite humiliated already. The typical path such an emotional crisis takes is after the initial doubt a loss of direction is incurred. They will search desperately for something to connect to. If their doubts and realization were strong enough to drive them away from their normal environment then they may find themself truly on a new path.

But if they continue to associate with those that wish to keep them in the belief system they may well be brought back into the fold. They will be publically humiliated and it will take some time for them to return. Mean while their return will be cause to heap reinforcement of the beliefs upon them.

All this is based on emotional responses to the situations. The emotional desire to return to the comfort zone they once knew is battling with new ideas. If the environment does not change or if the ideas are not accepted strongly enough they may only be able to cause a momentary crisis of faith.

[Modem Butterfly]

26. Oh balls

If you have a public breakdown and insult an entire group of people, the least you could do would be to acknowledge your poor behavior.

[Az]

27. Should

Is a long way from will. And frankly what she is going through isn't easy.

And what insult are we talking about? A lot of things went down in that event. Was there something specific you are refering to?

[Modem Butterfly]

28. Yeah, playing atheist for five minutes

I can only imagine the howls of protest if the situation were reversed.

[Az]

29. I don't think she was playing

I cannot atest to how well she thought her position through. But she seemed to believe she had to be an atheist with the way she was thinking at that moment.

[Modem Butterfly]

30. Meh

I think she's probably just a drama queen that posted without thinking too deeply and without having much regard for non-theists in the first place. It's still insulting.

[trotsky]

31. Others should apologize too.

All we were trying to do was help this person who was (supposedly) making that first step away from god beliefs. Encouragement, happiness, etc. are all acceptable in this case.

But in the "welcome back to the fold" thread, we are berated for being "effusive" in our demonstrations of support. I guess we didn't live up to our grumpy old atheist stereotypes enough.

[Modem Butterfly]

32. Excellent point

How were we to know we were being fucked with?

[lazarus]

6. me too

I went to the local labour board (small town in the south) to file a complaint. The guy in charge said he was more worried about my soul.

What do you do at that point?

[arwalden]

10. I Had A Boyfriend Break Up With Me Because Of It...

... it was our third week, and we were just getting around to discussing more "vital" matters like religion. And I was a Rush-loving, Reagan-voting Republican at the time. He could overlook that, but being an (eek!) Atheist was simply INTOLERABLE! Worse than being Republican. LOL.

[Modem Butterfly]

15. Truly bigotry knows no bounds

You would think someone subject to intense bigotry his whole life would be a bit more understanding. Oh well, you are better off without him!

[onager]

25. One of my favorite sayings about this...

...is in the movie Lone Star.

A white U.S. Army sergeant is about to retire and marry a black woman who's also in the Army.

He's discussing this with a friend (this is from memory, but close):

FRIEND: What does her family think about her marrying a white guy?

NCO: Well, they've always suspected she was a lesbian. So they won't care what color I am, long as I'm male.

FRIEND: Ah! Yes, it's always heartwarming to see one irrational prejudice defeated by another irrational prejudice.

[arwalden]

33. Good Line...

... I'll have to remember that. :thumbsup:

[defiant1]

14. What's a headhunter??

[Modem Butterfly]

16. A recruiter

In my case, I was a technical recruiter. Companies would pay a big fee for someone with a specific background, usually the equivalent of 20-30% of their salary. I made a lot of money, it was a good living. Once the tech bubble burst I became an HR person, and today I'm direct of HR for a medium-sized retail chain.

[defiant1]

21. Interesting....

So how do you headhunt?

[Modem Butterfly]

24. Well, I don't anymore

But I used to do a lot of networking and WOMM (word-of-mouth marketing). It's a difficult field of work to get started in, but if you're persistant and find a niche, you can really make money at it. A friend of mine recruiter librarians, and you would be surprised at that market...

[YankeyMCC]

8. Hello everyone

It's been a very busy bunch of weeks and more to follow, this may be my only post in for a while still.

But I have had time to lurk the last few days, and with a few minutes (riveted to my computer for news of the Jet Blue flight emergency) and I thought this would be a good thread to post in.

I'm reluctant to call what I've experienced oppression. I know many atheists can justly claim this experience but I haven't been overt/vocal about my atheism for very long compared to many here and I live in a pretty liberal area.

However, here's few items...

I got the incredulous "you're not atheist" remark from my mother and it continues to be a source of tension between us.

I got the blank look and silence when I tried to make the point at a Dem Town Committee meeting that all the talk of welcoming the religious into the party and proclaiming the religious within the party was ignoring the truly marginalized - atheists like me.


This next story may be more about my own insecurity or timidity in this particular situation rather than oppression. But...
Last year I was elected to Town Meeting. One day walking back from my son's bus stop I was stopped by a neighbor who wanted to talk to me in my capacity as Precinct TMM. I don't even remember the opening of the conversation but somehow it became, "You're catholic right?"

I'll bet a bead of sweat suddenly appeared on my forehead. I said "We're culturally catholic" which is true but of course skirts around the real question. The guy goes on to say something like "You want your son to be raised right don't you?"

I said something like "we teach him right and wrong" but kept it non-confrontational.

In my new capacity as an elected Representative (even though it was uncontested and really not big deal there are 12 of us from each precinct) I felt intimidated. I felt like I shouldn't make a lot of noise about my atheism until I've shown my worth in day to day practical issues we deal with in Town Meeting. But the encounter and the way I dealt with it still doesn't sit well with me.


(plane is down safely - give that pilot a raise and praise the training he or she recieved!)


on edit: Oh and it's good to see Az back!

[trotsky]

22. Good to see you again, Yankey.

Was wondering where you had gotten off to!

[arwalden]

9. My Chrome Darwin Fish Was Stolen Twice...

... it was the kind that's stuck on with foam tape backing, so it's easy to remove once you get your fingernails underneath the edge of he plastic plaque.

I gave up after that.

[salvorhardin]

11. I don't know if I've been personally oppressed but

there's certainly been many times when I've been socially marginalized and once where I beleive my medical treatment was compromised. I've had a psychologist working for a secular hospital (i.e. not affiliated with any religious institution) actually tell me I'd be a happier person and lose weight if I could get "beyond that whole atheism thing and find a spiritual purpose in my life". Mind you, at the time I was considering bariatric surgery (i.e. digestive tract mutilation) and the hospital required everyone considering participating in their program see a psychologist to determine whether or not we were doing this for the right reasons. The whole god thing came up because one of the other requirements was participating in a weekly group therapy meeting which was, of course, built around the AA praise jeebus model.

[onager]

12. Not much oppression here...

Like Trotsky, I've had idjits leave threatening/argumentative messages after I wrote LTTEs. Well, not really threatening, but the old "I'll jack off watching you burn in Hell when I'm sitting at Gawd's right hand" kind of message.

I've also had right-wingers call and leave nasty messages.

It's a little scary because I live in L.A. and have a very common name, so it should take some researching to track down my phone number.

Many years ago, I got a DUI and had to attend 12 AA meetings. There were always one or two loudmouths who seized the podium and started preaching about Jesus.

I got enough of that pretty quick, and asked one of the leaders if there was a non-religious alternative to AA.

Somebody piped up and said: "There are some atheists who have meetings in North Hollywood. But they're a bunch of devil worshippers."

:eyes:

[Jokerman]

13. Harassed and intimidated by a boy scout troop.

I've told this one before, usually in a thread about the Boy Scouts or United Way but here it is again:

The first scout troop I joined was lead by a married couple and met in the community room of their church. Within a few meetings it became clear that they saw themselves as spiritual leaders as well as scout leaders.

They began to question me about my family's religious beliefs and practices. When they found out, to their horror, that I didn't attend church and had never been baptized, they made it their mission to "save" me.

That's when things got really bad. They singled me out for my lack of belief. The troop was told that I was a heathen and to pray for my salvation. I was harassed and ridiculed by the leaders and by the little godbots in the troop. They told me that my parents were bad people who were leading me straight to hell.

One night, on the way home from a meeting, I told my dad what was going on. Before I knew it, he turned the car around and we were hauling ass back to the church. I was told to wait outside but my dad's voice carried enough for me to hear several "sonsofbitches" and finally, "I didn't fight the Nazis just to give in to assholes like you".

By the next week I was a member of a different troop where religion wasn't a part of the program. I was never more proud of my dad than at that moment and I've never since let anyone bully me over religion.

[Az]

17. Boyscouts were what awakened me to my atheism

I was raised with no religion. During a Boy Scout camp out one saturday night we visited a local observatory. We were able to look through the large scopes and see the marvels of the solar system. It blew my mind. It was amazing. I felt connected to the universe.

The next day, sunday, I was awakened and informed we were to attend mass. I had never attended anything like this. I went and was amazed to find all the attendants bowed in submission and a incredibly boring dry speech going on. There was nothing in it for me. I found no connectivity to any of the proceedings.

It was then that I realized that I was something. An atheist. That I was different than most of the people around me.

[Modem Butterfly]

18. They asked my brother to leave

Flat out "do not darken our door again". The Girl Scouts were much more accepting of me. Today, my brother is a hard-core Bible pounder with three marriages and a criminal record under his belt, and I'm happily godless. Coincidence? I think not.

[Jokerman]

20. Another "coincidence"...

I can think of at least two of the godbots from the first troop (including the son of the leaders) who have criminal records. One of others grew up to be a drunken, violent, wife-beating, god-fearing cop. My mom had a hand in getting him thrown off the force. Another moment of parental pride.

[arwalden]

34. I miss you.

[trotsky]

35. Me too. n/t

[CarbonDate]

36. Ooh, I have one.

There's this forum where uppity atheists get tombstoned.