Wow! When authors counter-attack...

[onager]

One of the books I picked up for my trip is The Closing of the Western Mind: The Rise of Faith and the Fall of Reason by Charles Freeman.

It's a historical account dealing with the rise of Xianity and how it totally destroyed the rational thinking prized by Aristotle and the Greek philosophers:

Freeman discusses "logos"-a reasoned account and "muthos"-a story of the gods or mythic heros. To the Greeks, logos led to rational thought, muthos to stories, that however edifying, were beyond the pale of factual proof.

The Christian church's insistence that muthos (the stories of the Christian God) were absolutely true and beyond examination in a critical way, led to a period of intolerance and persecution. It took centuries to recover the learning of the ancient Greeks.

Sounds like an average day here at DU...heh...

Anyway, I stopped in here to rant because the author, Charles Freeman, actually responded to his Amazon reviewers. The Amazon debate makes interesting reading:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/140004085X/103-5413984-4967006?v=glance

Have some irony, it's good for your blood--I will be reading this book only a few miles from the places where Xian mobs destroyed the Alexandria Library and killed the Uppity Woman Mathematician, Hypatia. (The new Alexandria Library has a neat stylized statue of Hypatia on display, right in the middle of the main room.)

[Az]

1. Its interesting what copyright law did to collective writing

People have no idea how the classics we now look to from ancient times came about. They think the authors simply pulled these stories out of their own mind and set them to scrolls.

Ancient writing is a marvelous example of collective writing. Stories and ideas are bandied around either in verbal or written form. The stories that capture peoples minds the most are the ones that were replicated. The masterworks that we enjoy today were the versions set down form this cascade of improving concepts.

The Greek/Roman gods came about in the same way. Through collective accumulation of stories the ideas that represented the most resonating aspects of our natures were the ones that got replicated. Early Christian stories arose in the same mechanism only they eventually came around to a dogmatic literalist position.

Today with copyright laws we no longer have such collaborative naratives and thus have nothing as powerful in our midst any longer. The Sciences maintain a collaborative approach but they do not appeal to the emotional centers of the mind. They are dry and clinical. Amazingly effective but beyond the emotional power of stories.

See the thing of the collaborative approach is that it can take the genius of countless individuals and pull from each of them the most relevant and powerful aspects. Later iterations build upon this and the final work is something beyond which any individual could accomplish on their own. And its all based on a form of evolution. Truly something powerful.

[immoderate]

2. Interesting point.

One of my favorite first books was bible stories for children. I wore out the pages and then graduated to science fiction. Never believed a word of it, but I loved the fantasy.

--IMM

[onager]

3. "Collaborative approach" was exactly...

...the approach taken by the Alexandria Library.

The point wasn't only to gather "all the world's written knowledge in a single place," though that was part of the job.

The Library's main purpose was to take all the various existing manuscripts and reconcile them into the best version. What today we would call an annotated edition, I guess.

To do that, the best scholars in each field were called in, paid well, and hosted in very comfortable surroundings.

The scholars could generally see, pretty quickly, when a manuscript had been edited, expanded or tampered with. (Remember that famous passage from Josephus that the Xians are always quoting? THAT was exactly the sort of thing an "Alexandria Edition" was meant to stop.)

It's just incredible to imagine what was lost there. Especially when you consider that the founder of the Library, Ptolemy I, was personally tutored by Aristotle (along with his childhood playmate, Alexander The Great).

Just imagine. People who personally knew Aristotle and Alexander The Great dictated or wrote their memories down...and IT ALL GOT BURNED BY A BUNCH OF FANATICS.

Argh!

[Az]

4. The burning of the library of Alexandria is the event in ancient history

that still makes me choke up at the loss. I envy your journey to its proximity. Its the closest thing to holy ground I have.

[GOPFighter]

6. Oh, the irony....

"Through collective accumulation of stories the ideas that represented the most resonating aspects of our natures were the ones that got replicated. Early Christian stories arose in the same mechanism...And its all based on a form of evolution."

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

7. Wow

I wish I had written that.

[progressoid]

5. Hmm, sounds interesting.

Puttin that one on the winter reading list. Thanks.
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(still envious of your trip)

[jonnyblitz]

8. thanks for posting this and making me aware of it's existence

I just requested this via my local library's "intra-library loan" program and should be receiving it shortly from some other CT library since it's not carried at mine. I can't wait to read it! :thumbsup:

[onager]

9. You're welcome!

:hi:

I didn't know it existed until I saw it in the bookstore, myself. I'd like to read more of Freeman, I think. He's written many books on the ancient world, including one used as a standard college text on Egypt, Greece and Rome.

And keep posting! I always enjoy reading your responses.

[jonnyblitz]

10. i noticed his other books listed when i requested this one..

so many books, so little time..hehe

anyways I wish you a good and safe trip to egypt and i certainly HOPE you post from there. If not I will miss you on here! and thanks for the nice words. I appreciate them, especially coming from you. :hi: