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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 08:45 AM
Original message
As an atheist, you must live an ethical life
An op-ed piece from a newspaper in Utah. Which may explain the "please-don't-form-an-angry-but-religiois-mob-and-burn-my-house-down" tone throughout the piece. :D

As an atheist, you must live an ethical life

Scott G. Morris
Salt Lake Tribune, October 29, 2005

As an atheist, you must live an ethical life. I am an atheist.

There, now that you have climbed back into your chair and your pulse rate is back to normal and your wife has explained that it is not an act of treason to be an atheist, let's discuss the obvious.

Understand that I am an atheist by conviction, not by choice. That is, observation and study have led me to what seems to me the inescapable conclusion that god and religion are artifacts, created by people, and, in fact, altered and recreated regularly as convenience requires.

Please don't bristle and take violent offense. This is my honest conclusion, based, to begin with, on the realization that self-serving paradigms (i.e. white people are better than other people, men are better than women, god gave us the world to do with as we please, the religion into which I was born is the really true religion, etc.) are automatically suspect. It has taken a measure of courage to leave behind the comforting opinions of the majority, but what is true is true .

You will have a different opinion, and that is fine. I accept and respect your ability to form your opinions, even if I find religious beliefs and their expression offensive. But then, no one has a right to go through life without being offended.

I, and other atheists I know (and yes, there are lots of us, about 17 percent of the U.S. population, 25 percent among those under 29, a greater percentage in Europe), would love to feel that Somone was guiding things, taking care of things, watching over us.

But wanting something to be so does not make it so. It is far better to accept the world as it is than to pretend it is as you wish it to be.

Please, don't start trying to show me all the evidence that god exists. I've heard it all, over and over, and it just doesn't hold water.

But I'm not going to try to convince you, either. I'm not interested in converts. Frankly I don't care what others believe as far as god and religion are concerned.

I would, however, like to explain what it's like to be an atheist in this society, so that maybe, just maybe, you can realize that not believing in a god doesn't make you a bad person (and vice versa).

I have heard for years now that I would "make a good Mormon," apparently because I am devoted to my family, am known professionally and personally for integrity and honesty, work hard to take care of my home, care about what happens in my community.

I suppose that I am proof that a person doesn't have to belong to a particular religion to have "family values" (a phrase I hate).

And yet when someone learns that I am an atheist, the reaction is almost always something like, "Well, then, how do you know right from wrong?" or "So, you don't have any morals?" or even "But you're such a good person!"

I answer thusly: If you believe in a god, then whatever evil you do, there is a power that can fix it. Whatever harm your actions cause, there is someone or something that can make it right. And that's fine.

But if you are an atheist, then you alone are completely responsible for the results of your actions. If you commit an act of vandalism and ruin some beautiful and fragile piece of nature, there is no one to mitigate the damage. If you harm someone, even inadvertantly, you can't take comfort in the fact that god will make it right for that person, in this life or the next.

As an atheist, you must live an ethical life. There is no other choice.

We are all familiar with examples of very religious people who are either very good people or very bad. In my experience (which includes a lifelong study of history), religion doesn't make people behave either for good or evil.

People may use religion as an excuse for their violence or prejudice, or as a guide and format for their service and sacrifice. But they would do exactly the same things with no religion at all, because that is how they are as individuals. And athiests are good people or bad people because of how they are, as people, regardless of any religious question.

So my point is this: Just because I don't share any of your religious convictions, don't relegate me and my fellow atheists and agnostics to an "outsider" status. I respect your right to believe and live as you see fit, and I expect the same in return.

---

Scott G. Morris is recently retired from the fire-alarm industry, where he was a manager, designer and salesman. A lifelong resident of Utah, he presently holds the jobs of husband, father and grandfather.


http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_3164757
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes! Yes! Yes!
Perfect! Absolutely spot on! Bookmarked.
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enlightenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
2. Many moons ago, when I was small,
my grandmother told me that she had "no morals. But I have plenty of scruples."

I asked her the difference, and she said: "morals are external; they are things that society, in all its forms, says you have to do in order to be a good person. Scruples are internal. No one TELLS me what is right; I KNOW what is right. I had to figure them out for myself; but now I have more scruples than most people have morals."

And she did. She belonged to the Unity church, but only on the fringe (born in 1899, raised in the south, I think she needed to belong to something) -- she borrowed beliefs from everything from christianity to zoroastrianism and beyond.

I believe what she did -- about morals and scruples. Scruples are much harder to come by, because you have to figure them out yourself. But once you do, they are yours -- part of you, like your brain is a part of you. You can't discard them, because nobody made you take them BUT you.
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Bzzzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent...
bookmarked as well!! Thanks for sharing!! :)
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. these "atheism is a religion" people really need to get a fucking
clue. where in fuck do they get THAT lunatic crap from? I have heard everything now. My patience is wearing thin with these people. DAMN! :crazy:
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Dee625 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Did you think the article is saying atheism is a religion?
I didn't get that from it at all, but I could have missed something.
(I would certainly disagree if they were saying that)
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. no, not the article! DUers on another thread with this same article
tried to say atheism is a religion. They do this often no matter how we try to convince them it isn't. it's their way of lashing back because we question religion. they tell us our view is a religion also. I can understand why you might be confused if you didn't see the other thread with this same article posted. :hi:
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Dee625 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-05 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Sorry, not up to speed on other DU areas
Had no idea you were referencing another discussion. Thanks for the clarification (cause I sure didn't see where you got that from the article). :-)
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. that was my fault..i was just lashing out...i hate it when people
refer to things with no reference and assume everybody knows what they are talking about so I should have known better! zenlighted posted this same article in another forum on here yesterday and a few religious folks used the thread to start the generic, 'atheism is a religion, too" argument.
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-05 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. some need a label so they can function
like calling alcoholism a disease so insurance will cover treatment.
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Okay, but what does he mean by "you must live an ethical life"?
There's no other choice? I don't get his point at all. He says it's one thing, but I'm hung up on his opening statement.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You have to live with yourself, don't you?
No magical being is going to wave a wand and correct your mistakes, so you'd better not make any BIG ones. And damn few small ones....

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Dee625 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes
After reading the article, I take that opening statement to have the you emphasized. As is "YOU have to live an ethical life" because there is no external power causing you to do so through threats, guilt, expectations, etc. Of course one could choose to not live an ethical life but either way YOU are responsible for the type of live you live.

At least that's what I got from it. :)
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-05-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. OIC. I took it as some kind of admonition.
I totally need the remedial class.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent article, bookmarked
:thumbsup:
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-05 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
10. That's quite good but....
He seems to have a bit of a conflict in his argument.

His statement that "As an atheist, you must live an ethical life" is sound. I agree. However, later he lets everyone (believers and not) off the hook.

"People may use religion as an excuse for their violence or prejudice, or as a guide and format for their service and sacrifice. But they would do exactly the same things with no religion at all, because that is how they are as individuals. And atheists are good people or bad people because of how they are, as people, regardless of any religious question."

I understand that he's trying to make the point that religion doesn't make one moral, etc. Nor does a lack of religion make one immoral.
However, isn't the idea that 'we are what we are', contrary to "As an atheist,...There is no other choice"?

Of course I haven't slept more that a couple hours in the last few days so maybe I should re-read this later.

But HUGE KUDOS for writing this letter in Salt Lake City!! WOW.
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onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. It's always good to see articles like this
It seems like more of them are popping up in the press lately. I'm thinking of the reporter who wrote that nonsense about "no atheist in a hurricane." And immediately got blasted by an atheist cop who pointed out that he was certainly in the middle of the hurricane, along with several other atheists on the New Orleans police.

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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. its good to see articles like this in a newspaper in Utah, IMHO.
:thumbsup:
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-31-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. .
Edited on Mon Oct-31-05 09:45 PM by Zenlitened
Ulp... nevermind. I see it's in R&T now.

*shudder*
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Dee625 Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-01-05 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. What's R&T? n/t
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-01-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. The Religion and Theology forum
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