The Three Things I Have Faith In (The Three Basic Objective Assumptions)

[Beetwasher]

I always think it's important to break things down as much as possible in order to build upon a solid foundation, ontologically and epistemologically speaking.

So, with that in mind, I have come to the conclusion that there are three concepts that can be said to be "real" and are the only "things" that we can ever truly be sure of. I call them the Three Basic Objective Assumptions.

The only three things that we can assume to be true and that I have faith in are:

1. Existence
2. Transience
3. Infinity

Descarte got it wrong when he said "Cogito Ergo Sum", or, "I think therefore I am". The truer version of this is "'I' think therefore 'something' is". And that "something" obviously changes. And since there can never be nothing, we can also assume infinity.

Discuss.

[displacedtexan]

1. Your assumptions remind me of the truth inherent in verb conjugations...

German is just one example: Most people never notice when they see "He is born" or "He is risen" on church signs.

In English, we conjugate To Be with a form of To Have: He has been born.

In German (and other languages), the verb sein (to be) is conjugated with itself: Er ist geboren (literally: He is born; but actually, He has been born)...

In English, 'He has been born' implies an action completed. Not so in German (and in other languages).

To Stay or Remain is also conjugated with sein (To Be) because even if something stays or remains, it is still in a constant state of change.

The understanding of the metaphysical world was incorporated into the development of grammatical structures (the cycle of life is always in motion) when Charlemagne commissioned the written form of early German (based on Latin).

Don't mind me. I'm just rambling today.

Excellent post!

[trotsky]

2. I would question #3, or at least your reasoning behind it.

Since there can never be nothing, we can also assume infinity.

One theory on the origin of the universe is that it all started from a quantum fluctuation (i.e., "nothing") in another universe, or a "meta-verse" if you will. And it might just return to "nothing" someday.

[Beetwasher]

3. Well, If There's Another Universe

Then there wasn't nothing...There's always something, even if it's in another universe or meta-verse and not in this one...I was being a bit pithy in my initial explanation, but I can expand...

Even if this universe didn't exist and it's existence came from some other universe, then there must be some meta-verse that exists and therefore, something always exists somewhere, it's just the form/location/dimension/whatever that changes...Infinity is implied by this...

[trotsky]

5. Well that's kind of the trick here.

Things like "time" and "space" can really only be said to have meaning within our universe. The meta-verse it spawned from may not even have those characteristics, thus we can't really say that if our universe isn't infinite that whatever it came from *is*.

[Beetwasher]

8. Of Course

Infinity is outside of time-space and our little universe...That's not all of existence though, existence is the sum of all universes/dimensions/whatever...There IS always something, maybe not this, but something. Infinity exists as integral part of existence itself.

[phantom power]

4. I think it's possible to question (2) and (3).

Our universe may very well be finite (but unbounded).

If by transience, you mean "nothing is permanent", then perhaps that is questionable too. Our universe might continue to exist forever.

I rather like Ayn Rand's axiom for Objectivism: "Existence exists", which is another way of saying (2) and (3) are unnecessary.

http://www.dailyobjectivist.com/Extro/FirstPrinciples.asp

[Beetwasher]

9. Transience

Transience is a self obvious property of existence to someone w/ consciousness. Even if nothing else in the universe changes and it's merely an illusion in our consciousness, change undeniably happens in our consciousness, therefore, transience is certain, at least while the cosciousness exists. But, even if at some point, the consciousness ceases and therefore the transience ceases, that too is change. If change never happens again in the universe, transience can still be assumed, because it DID happen at one point.

[phantom power]

11. Rats, that's the 3rd time I've failed the Turing test this week.

[Beetwasher]

12. LOL!

No worries, I'm not entirely certain I know what the fuck I'm talking about either!

The main point is, it SEEMS like I know what I'm talking about! ;-)

[immoderate]

6. My father used to say there were things that...

"Nobody knows!" When questioned further he would say,"Nobody knows."

These are some of them there things.

--IMM

[fshrink]

7. I have only one belief.

Language. All the rest is assumptions. By belief, I mean that I think it rules everything even if I don't know exactly how.

[Beetwasher]

10. Hmmmm

I would say language, in some ways 'rules' our conscious (or perhaps any conscious) perception of the universe...But what I'm getting at are what I think are the most solid objective "truths", truths that exist even without consciousness to interpret them. Everything above the level of the three Basic Objective Assumptions is subjective to some degree, including language. The existence of Existence is indisputable. That it changes is indisputable. And that "something" always has and always will exist is indisputable (this is the toughest concept for me to communicate because I AM limited by my means of communication in fully and competently expressing this concept of infinity outside the scope of time-space).

[fshrink]

13. Nope!

Without consciousness there is nothing. No truth, nothing. All these are concepts made by our mind, which means by our language. A cat has no notion of truth. A world without a conscious being does not exist. The existence is disputable to the extent that without at least one conscious existence there is no existence per se. That's the catch! I know it sounds weird, but turn it around a few times and you'll see that it's very pretty!

[Beetwasher]

14. Aha! That's Where My Faith Comes In! (Got you right where I want you!)

I have faith that these objective Assumptions ARE real, even WITHOUT consciousness. I have faith that there IS an objective reality out there that has always existed, even before consciousness and will continue to exist even AFTER consciousnes and the only things I can know for sure about it are my three Basic Objective Assumptions! That's what I have faith in! All the REST of reality is consciousness derived EXCEPT those three basic assumptions. Granted, our name for those concepts is consciousness derived, and our ability to recongnize them, but they will exist independentanly of any consciousness. So there! ;-)

What you're saying is way to solipsistic for me..Blecch! ;-)

[fshrink]

15. Lol. But *I* have only 1 assumption instead of 3!

So I believe *less* than you do! And language is real. So there!

[Beetwasher]

16. What Is The Objective Foundation?

You truly believe there is no objective Real foundation outside of consciousness (or language)? I think that for consciousness to exist, there would need to be a solid objective reality for it to exist in, one that does in fact exist and continue to exist even in it's absence, though w/ nothing to interpret it as existing.

I actually think of consciousness as a byproduct or result of some physical interactions. But it's not a necessary part of the objective universe or ultimate reality, it's only necessary for perceiving and defining and I guess acknowledging that objective reality.