Would like to offer a post I wrote in the GD forum

[fshrink]

and which got sucked down at the speed of sound. I liked it though. It came out of me in a big burst of utter frustration and I felt much better afterwards!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2712964

[MelanieArt]

1. I know how you feel. I have a theory.

I've wondered about this myself. I think it's because for many people, simply having "belief" in their religion, deep down inside, is not enough for them to completely feel content that it's truly, positively real.

It seems to me that the fundamentalist's beliefs needs to be validated and accepted by the public and the media for it to feel completely, irretractably real to them. Perhaps without seeing Jesus smiling down at them from a billboard with the words "Welcome To Our Christian Nation" (above a Pepsi adverisement of course) he's somehow less tangible and therefore vulnerable.

The vast majority of Americans rely upon the media to tell us what is real and what is accepted as truth, so the absence of their god being talked about everywhere they go and in everything they see has to mess with the percieved reality of its existence, which as we know drives them absolutely nuts. ;)

I think that's why they cling so hard with so much anxiety and anger about having and keeping "under god" in the pledge, "god bless America" sung at ball games and other mass events, and school prayer. The more their religion is accepted as indisputable fact by the masses and the more integrated it is with the media, the more at ease and the less often those pesky rational thoughts and ideas try to creep in.

If they had absolute belief and faith in their religion, they wouldn't need the whole of society to accept it to feel good. Any other theories?

[fshrink]

2. So it's only about validation.

Which makes religious beliefs extremely similar to fantasies. Fantasies generate powerful desires which cannot be fulfilled. In contrast, desired based on reality are less powerful but can be fulfilled. Which is in part why giving up fantasies is resisted against. Now, as you say, when you get external validation you preserve the intensity of the desire and feed the fantasy with an appearance of reality. This cycle resembles that of addiction, in the sense that the same amount of validation produces less and less effect, which in turn requires increasingly more validation. Hence proselytism. What is most interesting is asking the question I asked: I see no logical way to evade the answer we bring here.

[drhilarius]

3. I think that their faith is weak...

Fundamentalist are constantly in need of having their faith tested by some external enemy, be it atheists, secularists, homosexuals, other religions. Their faith is constantly under attack, and so fundamentalists are constantly in a defensive posture, which puts them in a state of high emotional intensity that, to a large extent, clouds their reason.

I believe that if they were not under attack, if they were to actually apply a healthy dose of questioning to their faith, it would crumble. Think of it in terms of battered wife syndrome. Her feelings for her abusive spouse intensify the more she has to defend him against other people. Once she no longer has to defend him, she may begin to see him for what he is.

[Philostopher]

7. I think they're trying to bring back the days ...

when they were thrown to the lions in the colosseum -- when Christians were legitimately persecuted, I mean. Since clearly they're not, they invent ways of feeling besieged -- there's nothing for group cohesion like attacks from the outside. There would seem, at least with some, to be a nostalgia for the day Christians weren't the 'primary' religion in Western culture.

If there are no legitimate attacks from the outside to force the group to pull together, manufactured slights and attacks can be equally effective, especially if you can encourage sufficient hatred of a group that doesn't share your beliefs.

It's not just religious groups that do this -- hell, we do it around here, to a degree. Not that we have to manufacture threats, right now, but a perceived threat or attack to your group, whether it be religious, occupational or social, will usually cause the group to pull together.

A perceived (or real) threat from outside the group is a way of creating a feeling of fellowship among otherwise distinct people. It's smart, in a crude sort of way -- our social conditioning in this culture pushes us toward conformity.

[Beetwasher]

6. It's Also About Control

Validation is a part of it, but it's also about controlling people's lives. They need to spread religious propoganda to stifle critical thinking. It makes the public more pliable. Religion IS the opiate of the masses, because it nullifies thinking and commands you to put faith in a higher authority, which is god OR his minions here on earth. THEY are supposed to do your thinking for you.

The propoganda is a form of mind control, reminding you as much as possible that you should shut off your mind and just follow orders from above.

[fshrink]

8. Agreed. Which is why religion has always been

closely associated, and sometimes even fused, with political power.

[Tafiti]

4. For an interesting read on this very subject...

...try Dan Barker's "Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist". He was an evangelist for 19 years, and slowly let doubt (reason) creep in until he finally realized he didn't believe.

Anyway, he gives excellent insight into the minds of the fundies - I know, I used to be one, too. I think it's a little old, but subjects like these don't exactly become outdated.

[Beetwasher]

5. Indeed, KEEP YOUR FUCKING RELIGION OUT OF MY LIFE

I don't want it, I don't need and quite frankly I find it rude to have your god crammed down my throat...I have the RIGHT to be free FROM your religion and your intolerance of my NON-belief!

(not you personally)