Informally, how do you feel about Barack Obama?

[PassingFair]

As an atheist, I feel he panders to the religious voters more than
any of our other choices. A lot of what he has said bothers me.


BUT...


As a progressive Democrat, I prefer his stance on the war to the
other candidates. I think he can catch corporate American off-guard.

I'm almost at a point where I'm willing to stifle my alarm at his
somewhat blatant religiosity if it means we have a shot at getting
an overthrow of the corporate-supported powers-that-be.

How do YOU feel?

[JNelson6563]

1. To be honest

I'm just glad Clinton didn't win last night. I take the calls for my local Dem office on my cell, here in MI there is much confusion about our primary. To a person everyone wants to know how to vote for someone other than Hillary when there are so few actual choices.

All prefer to vote uncommitted than to vote for Clinton. This doesn't bode well for our fundraising and volunteer recruitment in the year to come if Clinton is our eventual nominee.

Julie

[Kolesar]

2. He's Richard Roundtree, he's superfly

He's the soul man president
He's Earth, Wind and Fire

Black culture is so much imprinted into American youth culture. That's gotta be a good thing when it comes time to get young people to vote. I caucused for Edwards in Ohio last night, but I am not too unhappy with Barack.

I don't like Obama's religious pandering, but I don't think he will take it to the point of manufacturing an issue to campaign around. You know, like pounding the life out of a Moslem country.

And I'm glad Clinton got pushed down, too.
Really glad.

A, B, C, ... 1, 2, 3

[PassingFair]

3. "Preaching"

..to the choir, here, Julie!

Clinton is my last choice, also.

But as an ATHEIST, Barack really
was raising the old neck hairs up!

I think I can put that aside, though,
for a chance at "change"....

So how do you feel about an Obama candidacy
as an atheist?

P.S.: I still plan to vote "uncommitted", but
I think her plan to take Michigan is pretty
fool-proof.

[JNelson6563]

11. Well my friend, to be honest (again)

I tend to take my atheist hat off in these matters, since I know we don't count anyhow, and look at it through the lens of an on the ground organizer. Additionally I will be managing the race for the 4th District against Dave Camp so I am hoping for some kind of coat-tails. There is a lot of excitement about Obama up here in these parts. The youth vote from last night impressed me a lot and gives me hope that if Obama is our candidate we might see young people involved like never before.

Looking through my atheist lens, they all suck. haha I'd like to see Edwards have the chance to champion the little guy over the corporate powers and I think he'd play more hardball than Obama (who seems to want to be everyone's friend).

I learned after 2004 not to get emotionally invested in these primaries, not one single bit. ;-)

Cheers,
Julie--fellow former Dean supporter

[Warpy]

4. Well, since you're asking for honesty

I find him a self made man who is eager to join the exclusive club formed by the wealthy establishment. I don't honestly think he particularly cares where he came from, only where he is going.

His mentor as a freshman Senator was Joe Lieberman. It shows rather badly.

He looked great on paper while he was still in the Illinois Lege. I started to follow his career in 2000. The best thing that can happen to him now is that he fails in his bid for the presidency and he is given a lot of hard lessons by incoming Democratic Senators with Hillary Clinton as Majority Leader instead of that fucking wimp Reid.

In 2012, he would then be a force to reckon with.

[PassingFair]

7. Thank you, Warpy.

I have SERIOUS reservations about him myself, obviously!

I hope that ANY of our democrats can win against the eventual 'puke candidate.

Hillary is so unapologetic about running with the moneyed interests.
Edwards is so wishy-washy.
Barack is untested and seems so "preachy".

What's a progressive atheist to do?

[Warpy]

13. I'm flipping a coin between Richardson and Edwards

Richardson for the smarts and the competence, Edwards for the populist economic rhetoric. The other two can go whore for Wall Street votes.

[TZ]

15. Richardson has smarts?

The guy said he wasn't sure if homosexuality is a choice or not. That's NOT smart in my book.And thats when I knew I wouldn't vote for the man.

[Warpy]

16. He was sandbagged by that question

and replied the Catholic party line. However, if you check out his record on gay rights, you'll see that he's standing up for gay citizens along with everybody else.

All the candidates are going to make stupid statements as the campaign marathon progresses and they become exhausted.

However, beneath that rumpled suit there is a very intelligent and capable administrator. I live in NM, and his last few years as governor have been stellar.

Plus, Stupid's had to have him leave the campaign trail to broker deals with the North Koreans, something he has done. If anyone can begin to repair the damage done by Rice, Bolton, and Powell, it's Richardson.

[TZ]

17. Well it speaks to me of a potential problem with thinking quick

and not putting your foot in your mouth under pressure..Something this country does not need more of.
I think he would be a fine Secretary of State, though..In fact, I think he would be wasted doing something else..I just don't think his personality is a great fit for POTUS, IMO. (a friend in the know told me this screw up was caused by an unwillingness to do extensive research before campaign appearances)

[Warpy]

20. I've seen him in action as an executive

so I think he'd be a great POTUS. However, you're correct, he'd be one of the few people who could manage to undo the mess the present gang of ideological nutcases has done at the State Department.

[YankeyMCC]

14. Nailed it IMHO

Right now I'm leaning towards Edwards but I'm probably leaning on pretty thin air in that case.

[ozone_man]

19. But what do you really think?

One of your best qualities Warpy. ;)

You summed up why I don't care for Obama and the way I see Edwards "populist economic rhetoric". That rhetoric is a bold move, how much of it is a political move and how much heartfelt is less important to that he's speaking truth to corporate power. So, like many other progressives, I'm going with him.

Obama just isn't very progressive or a change candidate. He's a corporate moderate slightly better than Clinton. He's definitely milked the faith politics for all it's worth and will no doubt tone it down now as he heads to NH. But that doesn't bother me nearly as much as his corporate politics. They all play faith politics to some extent, and for the Democrats, they aren't going to threaten church and state. But corporate politics are real and defense spending is real. We can't have well funded social programs with our bloated military budget. As the economy falters, this will be more and more of an issue, maybe an opening for Edwards.

[Pale Blue Dot]

5. Honestly, I don't like him.

I feel that he talks a good game, but when we've really needed him to show leadership, he hasn't. For instance, on the vote a few months back on reauthorizing war funding, he waited until the last minute to vote "no", instead of actively campaigning for "no" votes (Hilary did the same thing, by the way). It struck me as pandering for the anti-war crowd. What we need is a leader, not a panderer.

...And speaking of pandering, the McGurkin thing sealed it for me.

Having said that...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2593152

[PassingFair]

8. He has had less time in front of me to BE two-faced...

than the others!

Hillary doesn't even PRETEND to be progressive.
Edwards charges into war, says it was a mistake,
then threatens IRAN!
W.T.F.?

Tough-guys!

I was a Dean supporter in the last election, and
I am just looking for "elect-a-bility" this time
around.

Shamefully.

[Pale Blue Dot]

10. I'm actually pretty disgusted by all of them, too. nt

[TZ]

6. As far as the religion thing

ALL the candidates are panderers, IMHO. Or did you not watch the CNN faith and politics special where they all came on to show how much they love jeebus! (barf). In terms of politics, I don't mind Obama. My personal preference is for Edwards, but Obama is my second choice and I don't like Hillary much. However, I do not think any Dem is going to be actively anti-atheist or overly religious. There is NO doubt that the worst Dem (in my mind Clinton) is FAR superior to Huckabee!

[PassingFair]

9. I agree, and in your order!

But I do think Barack is over the top!

[Auggie]

12. Not my first, second or third choice.

Haven't seen much backbone. I think he's been hesitant to take risks, preferring to play it safe. And he's a bit too conciliatory to corporations for my liking. That's how I feel based on what I've seen and heard.

But I'd have no choice but to support him if he's the nominee.

[More Than A Feeling]

18. The McClurkin saga keeps me from buying into Obama's rhetoric as others have.

It shows me that, when you get right down to it, Obama is on the side of the theocrats when it comes to the issue nearest and dearest to political hearts...getting votes. John Edwards stood up for Amanda Marcotte and Melissa McEwan, the bloggers he hired when the catholic league attacked them for being atheist feminists who had dared to criticize the catholic church. I have a feeling I know whose side Obama would have been on, had the same issue come up for him.

[trotsky]

21. He's my least favorite Dem in the race.

Mainly for reasons listed above: pandering to religious voters, throwing GLBTers under the bus when it was politically expedient (McClurkin). But the thing that annoys me the most is if you listen to EVERY SINGLE SPEECH he gives there are just NO details. All fluff and feel-good blather. Change, hope, blah blah blah. I've got nothing against those positive words - but I want to know HOW Obama will end the war in Iraq. I want to know HOW he will make healthcare better. I want to know HOW he will work to attack the astronomical wage gap in this country. But he never talks about those things in detail, only that they're bad. I KNOW! Oy.

I was originally for Richardson, willing to overlook some of his centrist stances just because I feel like the next president will need significant foreign relations experience, and Richardson was clearly the guy who brought that to the table. Among the "big three" I would most like Edwards, even though the "Breck girl"/mansion/trial lawyer stuff is sweet low-hanging fruit for the Repubs in the general election.

[TZ]

25. You might be interested to know

I had a nice "discussion" with my younger sister about Obama today. When I talked about the religiosity thing she was like "Whats wrong with showing your belief" (although I did point out that was what Chimpy said before getting into office--no harm innit!). When I mentioned it was pandering, she said,eh they all do it, even if I don't like it.
BTW, she was saying that Edwards was a do nothing in the Senate and Obama more of an activist. Also she likes Obama because hes not partisan she said. Wants someone to work "with" the Republicans. Great. He's the great compromiser. I pointed out, how are we EVER gonna undo the damage of the past 7 years if we don't bother with anything the Repukes don't like..Oy.
Interesting enough, we have the exact same opinion on Hillary. Oh well, she will at least vote Dem no matter what.

[trotsky]

26. Is he better than any Repuke? Yup.

I just don't get a good feeling about him - the religious rhetoric, the willingness to discard one constituency for another, the total emptyness of his speeches.

I'll gladly vote for him in the general if I have to, but goddamn the last thing I want to do is work WITH Republicans. Fuck 'em - they need to take a back seat while Dems undo all the damage.

[NMMNG]

22. I'm a gaytheist

Obama has doubly thrown me under the bus ("Kingdom of God", McClurkin and friends, etc.). He is no friend to me and I don't trust him for sh*t.

[Random_Australian]

23. I hear little about him, so I can sum up my entire attitude in three words:

Better than Bush.

Seriously, I find it very strange that the candidates compete by damaging each other's electability - the whole point of the system is to find who can best oppose Bush, right? So why get together and agree to run strictly positive campaigns towards each other, such that the winner is not only the best candidate out of the lot, but has not had a massive campaign launched at them from dems?

All in all, I had hoped people would have the vision to do that; I would have thought that the whole "united against the pretzledent" was a little more than skin-deep. (Of course, I'm not so arrogant as to think that I've come up with a good test of integrity. And I'm not saying they won't work well on their own, but I'll always think they would work better semi-together, and I've seen nothing but animosity. Perhaps I'm wrong)

[TZ]

24. absolutely right

And yes, I really hate to see the candidates tear into each other, but that seems to be the way things work here. Oy. And not just the candidates..Go into GD--P these days..As someone so quaintly put it, its like a "sack of rabid wolverines" in there these days.

However on the positive side, the repukes are postitively at each others throats..Huckabees win in Iowa apparantly has the freepers up in arms and Guiliani (who was a front runner at one time) finished last..It seems like different candidates are leading in different states. You think the dems are going after each other? I think its much worse on the other side of the aisle..

BTW, congrats on FINALLY getting rid of John Howard...I heard he lost his parliamentary seat too..As someone on the local media put it..A humiliating end to his career...:)

[Deep13]

27. I think he's wet behind the ears.

I would have thought that this country would have been done with amateurs.

[Hamlette]

28. His mother was an atheist

So was mine.

You get your values from your parents. As an atheist, there's a part of me that honestly believes no one really buys all that god crap. Maybe he doesn't either.

At the very least, since he speaks highly of his mom, he can't be an atheist hater. IMO.

[trotsky]

29. I did not know that.

That actually reassures me somewhat. Thank you.

[ozone_man]

30. That's an interesting tidbit.

My mother was an agnostic/atheist. Never went to church like my father did. I guess I took after her.

It's really not the religion that bothers me that much about Obama. It's his corporate backing. I don't see him as a change candidate.

[Hamlette]

31. I don't see him as being as entrenched with the corporations as the others

I also know that corporations are a necessary evil, they employ many of us after all.

He's not my ideal candidate. But if you listen to his "god talk" its not nearly as bad as some. If he mentioned God in his Iowa acceptance speech, I didn't hear it.

I also admit I cut minorities more slack on the god issue. Call it my brand of racism. We've shafted them a lot so I get why they wanna believe in heaven. Ok, its a bullshit argument but I'm sticking with it.

[ozone_man]

32. Yes, I stuck with that argument too

and was chastised for it elsewhere. But I'm sticking with it too. My wife has the same opinion, so she is a good ice tester. :D

Regarding the corporations, I work for one. Like all corporations, profit is necessary, but the products we make have social value for the most part. Mostly medical, but an assortment of other commercial products. We have local manufacturing, in our facility.

Corporations may be a necessary, but they don't have to be evil. So, the idea behind a Kucinch or an Edwards campaign is to take some of that evil out of the corporations. NAFTA and other job outsourcing economics, corporate welfare, stricter environmental controls, etc.. There's a whole military industrial complex that can be pared back to something a third the size that it is. Kucinich would talk to that, but none of the others would touch that, except to get out of Iraq.

The issue that progressives raise about Obama or Clinton has more to do with corporate influencing of government through lobbying. Both Clinton and Obama's campaigns are funded heavily by corporate donations. They are not running under the limits set by presidential matching funds. Not that Edwards is squeaky clean, but he claims to take no money from lobbyists. I could vote for Obama in the general. There are other arguments besides his corporate ties to be made for that case. But for now, we need to air out some of that dirty laundry that we've been collecting over the past three decades of the Bush/Clinton/Bush dynasty. ;)

[PassingFair]

33. Do you have any links for that?

I haven't seen that anywhere.

Thanks!

[cosmik debris]

34. Here is a source.

"She touted herself as an atheist, and it was something she'd read about and could argue,"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-0703270151mar27,0,5157609.story

It is really hard to tell what the truth is because there are so many "Smear Obama" sites out there. I would not put too much faith in any source other than the candidate himself.

[PassingFair]

35. Thank you for that, Cosmik.

I enjoyed reading that, and he went up a notch for it.

What an interesting life he's had!

[Hamlette]

38. I think I read it in his book but I did google it before posting to make sure I remembered right

he also says his father was basically an atheist by the time he married his mother.

Here's a link to what he says about his mom:
http://www.glamour.com/news/blogs/glamocracy/2008/01/glamour-has-inv.html

My mother, Ann Dunham, was the kindest, most generous spirit I have ever known, and what is best in me, I owe to her. She died of ovarian cancer in the prime of her life, and I’ll never forget what she was most worried about in those final months. She was between jobs when she was diagnosed and she wasn’t sure whether insurance would cover her treatment. So I know what it’s like to see a loved one suffer because of a broken health care system. And I’m running for president so we can finally make universal health care a reality in this country.


The whole article is short and good, about his grandmother, mother and wife. I don't want to die young but I sure would love to think my son would say something like that about me. (I told him for years he had to say what I'd read in a book dedication "the earth didn't move when my mother died, but it should have. It should have." He can say this too :)

[progressoid]

36. Oh boy.

Wait until the RW gets going on that. Wonder what is going to piss them off more, the madrasa thing, his middle name or that his mother was an atheist.

[cosmik debris]

37. She was also a "Welfare Queen" by some accounts

http://www.contrariancommentary.com/community/Home/tabid/36/mid/363/newsid363/125/Default.aspx

I am amazed at the vast volume of misinformation out there.

I've decided not to believe ANYTHING until after the election.

[and-justice-for-all]

39. I like Obama and support him,,

I also like Edwards and support him as well. They are all going to give a hand shake and a smile to the religious nuts, they want their vote and support so they can win. I hate to say it, but I do not think they would have a chance at the election if they did not do some pandering to a large chuck of this countries populace. It sucks, I know, but a must have skill in politics is bullshitting.

DK is very honest and open about where he stands on issues, I would love to see someone like him representing this country. He just is not a goood bullshitter and chooses to be open and honest rather then faking it for the masses. People would rather be lied to then be forced into facing the truth of the matters.

That's why so many people are religious, they love bullshit and will give money to support that bullshit. They like their bullshit on everything and really enjoy a bullshit sandwich like the ones served by Pat Robertson, Dobson, Parsley, Hagee and Perkins; they serve'em cold or steaming..but it's all still bullshit.

[adnelson60087]

40. I don't care for him, and find him opportunistic

and vacuous. I find him difficult to listen to and his religiosity disturbs me greatly. Just my feel for the man.

[and-justice-for-all]

41. He is my second choice...

Edwards is my first.

Something about Obama that makes me kind of nervous, not sure what it is, but he does.