My sister, the christian, and my atheism...

[cynatnite]

Well, I told my sister I was an atheist. It upset her. I really didn't think it would, but considering how she views christianity...yeah, I can understand. After a lengthy conversation with her over the subject much of it is still in my head. She tells me that I should believe...just in case I'm wrong. You never know...you might die and then god appears...or maybe you wake up in hell. :shrug: I haven't a clue and she didn't seem to know either. I expressed to her what I think what happens after we die and let her know I was not happy about it, but that's life. You die and that's it.

Nope, I am not happy at all. What if I die and then I wake up? I'd be in a coffin, underground and in some sort of cement thing. That would suck! Cremation definitely has no appeal at all. What if I don't like death and I want my body back? Well, I am just screwed in that case. What's worse, is what if there is a heaven. That is totally confusing, too. Jesus said there were mansions. Now, that'd be cool. My own mansion.

But then a preacher told me once that we'd all be just spirits, singing and praising gawd and all that. What would we need a mansion for then? Oh, and what's up with all the praising and singing? Forever? :wtf: I can't...I don't have it in me. At all.

I told my sister that I can't pretend to be a christian...I'd be lying. I'd be a hypocrite and being a hypocrite is the one thing I DO NOT want to be. I've seen so damn much of it in my life that I've worked my ass off not to be one now...even though I'm sure there's still a little bit in me. Whenever I catch myself being a hypocrite...for even just a little, I stop and fix it.

I also told her that while I consider the bible full of myths I do think there are some good things we can take from it. There are a few notions that we shouldn't dismiss out of hand because it came out of the bible. One of the best things to come out of it...well, it wasn't in the bible. It's in the Book of Thomas which the Counsel of Nicea decided it didn't need to be included. That is that peace comes when we find it within ourselves. I'm just paraphrasing here, but that's basically what it said. I like that because I know how true it is. I believe it.

The struggles I had over religion, faith and spirituality really tore at me. Disbelief had been dogging me for years...since I was a kid. Enough was enough and I was not going to keep at it. My heart and mind was telling me there wasn't a god. It was a matter of not denying it any longer. There was a painful period there for a while and I think it was having to deal with things I had been taught my entire life as far as christianity goes. It's programming that can be tough to break, but I did and I'm more at peace with myself than I had been in years. I feel like myself and it feels damn good.

I told my sister all this and she hated it. There was a lot more I wanted to tell her, but I held back. I wondered whether I should or not. Should I give more detailed explanations as to why I'm an atheist? Should I point out discrepancies in the bible? Should I show her scientific fact that disputes the bible?

Should I attempt to bring her around to my way of thinking or let her be? Given how much stock she puts in gawd and all that I know that it's very important to her. To change that or even attempt to change it would hurt her and as much as I love her, I don't know if I should. It could rattle her faith to such a degree that I worry about the pain she would experience. Do I have a right to change that? Do I have an obligation to do it?

Do we have the right or the obligation to tell someone and show them that their religious belief is false?

[YankeyMCC]

1. "I told my sister all this and she hated it."

that's the saddest aspect of coming out. You shared something fundamental about yourself, tried to make a connection with another human being who you love and they didn't respond in kind or even understand what you were offering, they don't have to agree with your position to recognize that and respond in a loving way.

I can't answer most of your questions but you definitely should not try to bring her around to your way of thinking. Yes we all have an obligation in general to promote rational thinking but in a careful and considered way. It depends on who you're dealing with in the tactics you use but in general better to show how rationality is better than focusing on the falsity of their beliefs that to easily turns into, at least in their minds, as an attack.

[cynatnite]

2. She was very shocked and couldn't believe it...

I explained that I've always been like this. These doubts and questions dogged me for years, but it's only been in the last five years that I came to terms with it all. I told her that this is something I kept to myself because of how people would react to it.

I wondered if by her saying that I should believe just in case I'm wrong she was telling me that she had doubts and that was why she continues to as she has. :shrug: I don't know.

Anyway, thanks for answering. You gave me a lot to think about.

[moggie]

3. Surely she has doubts!

If she's an adult and not brain-dead, she must have asked herself those difficult questions, and they don't go away: the best you can do is push them to the back of your mind. So, just by continuing to be yourself, and showing her that an atheist can be a good person, you may help her overcome the nonsense, without needing to "preach".

Having said that, it wouldn't hurt to point out the obvious problems with Pascal's Wager, and put forward the Atheist's Wager for comparison.

[Warpy]

4. That's why most of us stay in the

"I'm just not religious" ghetto. Coming out as atheists shocks people, especially the people who are still afraid not to believe. It rattles their cages and destabilizes their worlds.

I think we have to be pretty careful who we tell. Once told, that should be it and we never have to broach the subject again unless they start trying to convert us, a constant hazard.

That proved to be the best policy with my parents, both of whom died unbelievers.

[immoderate]

5. You did what you could. I think you should go easy.

Beliefs are personal. Answer questions if she asks. Otherwise it's best to let her get used to the idea.

Theists are insulted when someone announces they are atheist. They take it personally. I counsel patience.

--IMM

[onager]

6. They sure do take it personally...

This is a touchy topic for me. Every time I got to a family reunion I have to clench my teeth.

Most of my relatives are nice people if they don't wander off onto the topic of religion. Unfortunately, I have a couple of kinfolks who ALWAYS drag it into the conversation.

Usually like this: "They won't let us pray in school." I've learned not to let them bait me, so they can start into their bullshit about "But Congress starts with a prayer!" etc. I can resist. Sometimes.

Like others in here, I have an elderly mother who is still a believer and is the only mother I have. She certainly knows I'm "not religious," as she puts it. But I don't think she wants any more information, and I don't want to cause her any unnecessary pain.

Then there's my cousin. I practically grew up with her and we are the same age. She asked me once why I had passed on the "honor" of saying grace before a meal where nearly the whole damn extended family was sitting at the table--a lot of people.

We were by ourselves, so I told her the truth--that I didn't want to be a hypocrite, since I was a non-believer.

She immediately said "No you're not," in the tone she probably used on her kids when they were small.

Well, I responded with "Yes I am" and suddenly it was like the two of us were 10 years old again and stuck in one of those endless and mindless arguments that kids have.

Amazing. I mostly enjoy visiting my childhood home, but I sure hate reverting to childhood while I'm in it...

[immoderate]

7. I don't have that problem with family.

Most of them are not observant. It's common for north eastern Jews. The idea is to get the kids Bar Mitzvahed and it's over. My parents did it to me because of extreme pressure from my grandparents.

It really never comes up at family gatherings because as I've said, (and I mean it) I'll attend any religious observance where the food is good. And these are cultural events to me, kind of like Thanksgiving.

--IMM