Return Of The Living Dead Topic...

[onager]

...of your favorite atheistical movies. We seem to do this every once in a while, so I thought I would kick it off this time for any new folks who want to chime in. Or old veterans who have some updates for us.

The Rapture: despite the title and subject...yep, THAT Rapture...it was written and directed by an atheist. An outstanding movie that carries some of the more bizarre Fundie beliefs to their logical conclusions.

How much is it worth to spend eternity in Heaven with an omnipotent god? Is it worth the destruction of your most "sacred" human relationships?

I won't do any SPOILERS, but there are some truly harrowing scenes and it's definitely not one to watch with little kids.

A pre-"X Files" David Duchovny and (Former Spouse Of Annoying $cientologist Asswipe) Mimi Rogers are both great in the leads.

Wings Of Desire: hard to say anything new about this Wim Wenders classic, but it's the most NON-religious movie about angels you'll ever see. Complete with Peter Falk as a fallen angel!

Of course, the trick is that it's not about angels at all but about being human and all the little things we ignore as we get older. Wenders uses the gimmick of "only children can see angels," but he's doing it to make a useful point. How did you see things as a kid, and how do you see them now?

Don't even THINK of wasting 2 hours on the hokey remake City Of Angels, with Nicolas Cage and Meg Ryan. That one makes all the mistakes Wenders avoided: tacky sentimentality, literal BS about escorting dead people to the Afterlife. And it's set in L.A., for Crum's sake. The city of Berlin was another character in the Wenders movie. Remaking it in L.A. was like remaking Casablanca in Las Vegas.

[Taxloss]

1. 2001: A Space Odyssey.

To use a line I've used many times in the past: "No, the aliens are not 'meant to be' God."

(I suppose "Contact" should have an honorary mention in that category, since it's based on Sagan, but the film was VERY watered down.)

Also "Bob Roberts"

Not strictly an atheist film, but a damning and prescient swipe at the rise of the Fundie Xtian Right. And it has Gore Vidal in it. What more could you ask?

[phantom power]

5. I've always suspected Clarke is a crypto-christian-rapturist.

Seriously. There's gobs of christian and rapture imagery in 2001, the Rama series (the newer trilogy, not the original), Childhood's End, Light of Other Days (with Stephen Baxter).

I get a vibe that it's more than just literary device to him.

[Taxloss]

7. No, I don;t feel that at all.

He strikes me as being a lot more comfortable with Eastern cultures and concepts of polytheism. If anything, his writing points to the idea that although there may be a greater power beyond us, we can come to understand it, and that seems directly contrary to Christian notions of God.

On edit: and you have to remember much of 2001 was written by Stanley Kubrick - it was a collaboration.

[beam me up scottie]

2. Planet of the Apes - original 1968 film.

And Chocolat !

[Warpy]

3. Chocolat is my favorite in the genre

Of course, Christians would call any movie that isn't all Jesus, all the time, an atheist movie. Athiests restrict them to movies that show atheists as normal people with ethics and reason and even just mention atheism without sneering at the idea.

Star Trek movies imply atheism, as do the Star Wars series, but they don't come right out and SAY it, although the original hokey show pretty much did, by giving "whatever gods you may worship" fantasy status.

I haven't seen "Hitchhiker's Guide," but it may fit into our genre if it's at all faithful to the books.

[beam me up scottie]

4. Oops! Forgot about Star Wars!

Good catch, there's a good reason WHY the fundies hate those movies so much!

[Kolesar]

6. Captain Kirk lectured the Yangs and the Komms ...

...not to believe everything they read in the book that was passed down through the eons.
The next day, Dad wanted me to go to Catechism.
Who am I going to listen to? Dashing Captain Kirk or doddering Mrs. Pysichniak?
A rebellion was born.

[beam me up scottie]

8. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

:rofl:

I too, bow to the wisdom of the OS and TNG.

[YankeyMCC]

9. Fantastic...

That would've been a story for the book "All I really need to know I learned from watching Star Trek" by Dave Marinaccio

[shrike]

10. Hmmm. I don't recall Chocolat as being an atheist movie

But if it is, it's a good one. Might have been subtle enough that I just didn't notice it.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Argh. Thought

I'd never find a review...
Here's a good one from the UK:
"Set in an isolated town on a hill in rustic France, the story focuses on the staid residents who all file nonchalantly into church.
Alfred Molina is the mayor who keeps a disciplinarian eye on the people who must not stray from their obedience to God and certainly not fall into the trappings of their desires.
But an icy north wind gusts into their claustrophobic world, bringing Vianne and her daughter, Anouke, cloaked in their red coats to their town.
As a single mother and an apparent atheist, Vianne is immediately shunned by the townsfolk and when she transforms a former patisserie into a devilishly irresistible chocolaterie, the mayor is determined to make her an exile."

from:
http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk/leisure_pleasure/movies/movies_review_archive/pre_11.5.01/chocolat.html

And I think Chocolat is on the list of movies at the Atheist Empire website.

I think I'll watch it again this weekend...

[shrike]

12. That's one way of looking at it

I saw it as the latest retelling of the old story of the outsider who breathes a breath of fresh air into the staid, tired lives of the villagers. The story's been filmed many times, with church folk as occasional villains (though anti-church is not necessarily anti-God), but I thought Chocolat did a superior job of it.

I saw the mayor as more a moral scold (who is also embarrassed and grief-stricken over his wife's departure) than a man of God. I also recall the village priest as a nice enough chap, though a bit of a twit. I loved how the villagers rediscovered joy in their lives. And even Vianne changes somewhat: after spending her life flitting from place to place, she realizes the value of community, and permanence. On the other hand, if Johnny Depp came into my life I wouldn't leave town, either.

One of the nice things about good movies is that they bear up under multiple viewpoints. And if some people see it as an atheist movie, that's cool, too.

[beam me up scottie]

13. Sigh...

it is such a great movie.

"On the other hand, if Johnny Depp came into my life I wouldn't leave town, either."

AMEN :P

[onager]

14. Even I liked "Chocolat..."

And everybody knows I'm a grumpy old a-hole. :hi:

I haven't seen it in a while, but as I remember, Vianne never comes out and says she's an atheist. She just refuses to go to church and lets the nosy neighbors conclude that she's an atheist.

The message is still pretty clear. I thought the movie also made some good points about multi-culturalism, feminism and such without hitting you over the head with a sledgehammer. Vianne and her daughter are descended from a mixed-race/culture couple--that Frenchman who went to the jungle.

And to this Grumpy Atheist, Vianne's not really doing "magic" with her chocolateering. She's doing chemistry, and happens to be really good at it.

The scene where Alfred Molina finally gives in nearly commits chocolo-cide was really good.

[beam me up scottie]

15. That scene with Alfred

was classic. "Chocolo-cide" !!! What a way to go!
I loved it when Vianne introduced the abusive husband to a frying pan.

Doesn't she come into town on a north wind?
There was a lot of spiritual elements in the movie.

But I do remember the Atheist Empire listed it as one of the top three atheist movies, and it was also on a GreenScene atheist movie list.

[onager]

17. We'll take any publicity!

Especially publicity as good as that movie.

Here's another interesting one, not about atheism per se but about the horrible effects of religion. And there is one atheist in it.

"A Love Divided." TRUE story of an Irish couple in 1950's. Husband Catholic, wife Protestant. They have two daughters, and come under fearsome pressure to "give" them both to the Catholic Church school system. The pressure mutates into a mini-religious war, with former friends boycotting each other's business and attacking each other.

The local atheist is an Irish Republican Army veteran who runs the only pub in town. He had...er...some experience with Catholic/Protestant strife, and often seems like the only sane character left in the story.

The wife runs away with the girls and tries to support them and herself independently.

Really heartbreaking story, and it doesn't have a happy ending. In a voiceover at the end, one of the daughters says everyone tried to go on and live life normally, but there were just too many hard and bitter feelings on every side.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Sounds like one of those

movies you can't forget.
I might just watch it if it's not too heavy. (very much alone down here)

On a lighter note, who saw "Angela's Ashes"?
The scene where the boy throws up after his first communion?
And his grandmother keeps screaming about Jesus being all over her back yard?
Priceless.
And I LOVED the priest's reaction!
:rofl:

[dwckabal]

23. You must read the book

One thousand times better than the movie.

The battle lines between church and chocolate are drawn by this British (and part French) author in her appealing debut about a bewitching confectioner who settles in a sleepy French village and arouses the appetites of the pleasure-starved parishioners. Young widow Vianne Roche's mouthwatering bonbons, steaming mugs of liqueur-laced cocoa and flaky cream-filled patisserie don't earn her a warm welcome from the stern prelate of Lansquenet-sous-Tannes. In Francis Reynaud's zeal to enforce strict Lenten vows of self-denial, he regards his sybaritic neighbor with suspicion and disdain. Undaunted, Vianne garners support from the town's eccentrics, chiefly Armande Voizin, the oldest living resident, a self-professed sorceress who senses in Vianne a kindred spirit. A fun-loving band of river gypsies arrives, and a colorful pageant unfurls. The novel's diary form–counting down the days of Lent until Easter–is suspenseful, and Harris takes her time unreeling the skein of evil that will prove to be Reynaud's undoing. As a witch's daughter who inherited her mother's profound distrust of the clergy, Vianne never quite comes to life, but her child, Anouk, is an adorable sprite, a spunky six-year-old already wise to the ways of an often inhospitable world. Gourmand Harris's tale of sin and guilt embodies a fond familiarity with things French that will doubtless prove irresistible to many readers.

In the book, the antagonist is the local priest and his young acolyte, not the mayor. I suspect the filmakers did this so as not to upset too many "Christian" moviegoers...sad, because that makes for a much better dynamic--and the ending is simply a classic!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/014100018X/104-8818792-5529521?v=glance

[beam me up scottie]

24. Thank you,

for the recommendation.
I will definitely read it.

After the differences between the movie "The English Patient"
and the book by Michael Ondaatje, I decided to either read the book or see the movie but never to do both.
You may have just changed my mind.

Funny, Juliette Binoche was in The English Patient as well.

[shrike]

25. A witch, huh?

I figured she was, in the movie.

Book reminds me of some of my favorite authors -- all Latin Americans. I'm a big fan of magic realism. That plot reminds me a little of some of the Latin novels I've read.

I think it would have been more fun to have the priest as her antagonist -- imagine the chocolate-eating scene, then. Though the mayor was more a poignant figure, at least for me, especially when I found out about his private sorrows.

[Warpy]

16. The protagonist wasn't a churchgoer

The village called her an atheist and she didn't correct them.

Oh, and her generosity and tolerance prevailed in the end. She didn't get converted by anyone, except as to stay on as a permanent part of the village.

[shrike]

18. Yeah, I liked that

Why should she tell them? It wasn't their concern. Lots of good messages in there about tolerance, acceptance, multiculturalism (as a poster above noted), and the acceptance of someone who is different. AND, the outsider, Vianne, realizing that she does need someone other than herself.

[beam me up scottie]

20. I like to think of her as an atheist.

:hi:

[onager]

21. Sort-of related, I guess, maybe...

Has anybody else seen the French documentary To Be And To Have?("Etre et Avoir")?

It's set in the same sort of rural French area as Chocolat. Subject is one of the last one-room schoolhouses left in France, and its teacher.

While watching, I kept wondering how this would have looked if it had been an American product. I suspect we would have had at least a few sneaky God+Country religious commercials, or at least a chat with a local priest/minister/rabbi/Fundie felon about the "moral values" taught in school.

There's NONE of that. I realize France is determined to keep its schools secular, which probably explains it. I tell ya, after being bombarded with religious cant daily, here in One Nation Under Jesus, it's SUCH a breath of fresh air to see it completely absent. And in a movie about Raising The Next Generation! Horrors! How will they get along with being indoctrinated in Xian superstition?

The documentary certainly shows the teacher, Mr. Lopez, inculcating moral values. His students range from age 4 to about 10 or 11. He's shown counseling 2 older boys for fighting (one kid's father is suffering with cancer and doesn't sound likely to live long).

When one really little boy complains that he has nightmares about ghosts, the teacher asks: "Have you ever seen a real ghost?" (Yes! Start that skeptical thinking EARLY!)

Anyway, if you haven't seen it, this is a good one to add to your rental list or Netflix queue.

[PassingFair]

22. I've said it before, I'll say it again...

"The Contender" is the most blatantly pro-atheist movie I have ever seen. I was holding my breath as she testified about believing in the Constitution.