CS Lewis

[YankeyMCC]

Bear with me for the connection to atheism and the reason why I posted this in here. In my mind the connection is clear but I may not be able to articulate it very well. I just felt like getting it out since I don't think I could say this to the people I should say it too.

I'm a huge Lord of the Rings fan (I'm referring to the books, although I did enjoy the movies too) but I've never liked any other Fantasy genre story that I ever heard about or attempted to read.

It was a long time before I could figure out exactly why that is and I don't think even until now I fully appreciated the reasoning. Up until recently I would say it was because Tolkien built his fantasy world on a solid and consistent foundation, consistent in the stories own internal logic. And actually there is also very little hocus pocus type magic in these stories, spirits and magic yes but very little chanting and waving of wands to suddenly make something happen.

In the last week I've started reading CS Lewis' "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" to my 8 year old son.

Bear with me. :)

I know Lewis was supposed to be a hard core xian who saw it as his duty to spread the word as it were. I had never read the books. But my sister loved the stories when she was a child and when I heard that Disney was making a movie I told her and she got excited about it and suggested we go see it together with my son.

I thought I'd start early (movie comes out in Dec) in case he wanted to read more of the series before the movie comes out.. And I figured there could be no harm in reading him the book after all many authors of very good books are nominally xian. Even Tolkien. It doesn't mean the book will be bad.

Maybe there wont be harm but sonovabitch this book is insidious xian propaganda. And the only reason there wont be harm is because I'm constantly stopping and pointing out the silliness of it. And I don't mean magically creating cursed food from a potion and snow I mean the weak and ridiculous foundation of the story. The stuff that makes the book sound like a xian parable designed not to enlighten but to indoctrinate into making decisions based on "faith" instead of rational observation and knowledge..

I really don't think my atheist approach to the world is biasing my feeling that this book is bad. I went into it with an open mind and in fact expecting I might just enjoy it. Perhaps I'm biased in thinking it's xian propaganda and it really is more generally "religious" propaganda.

Already there are "special feelings" at the mention of Aslan's name. And prophecies that come out of nowhere. And I almost wonder if there isn't a little misogyny in there with the white which (and somehow even that scene with Mr and Mrs Beaver seemed a little odd, or maybe odd isn't the correct word because it was clearly "this is how a household is run and this is what a woman's role is" message.)

And now I realize LoTR can be seen as having a secular message. I know Tolkien has said that his stories are not intended to be allegory or preach a lesson. But any well told story is like a mirror or special lens for the reader through which he or she can see parallels and ideas that can be applied to their lives or what they witness around them.

And perhaps that's the crux of it. Lewis had an agenda, Tolkien just wanted to tell a good story.

When I read LoTR I think about personal responsibility, helping others, doing your duty, and always trying to go further and having hope not in a mythology or magic but in yourself no matter how insignificant you think you are in the grand scheme of things.

As I read LtWW I think about the old religious crap of "god is good" "do as your told" "there is no gray area only good and evil" "act on faith not reason".

I will finish this book with my son because if I stop now it'll make it a bigger deal than it really is and I feel I can use it to talk to him about the silliness of the ideas presented in the story. But I certainly wont offer to read any more of this crap to him.

[trotsky]

1. Hack

Oh, sorry. Gut reaction - I thought you wanted to play word association with subject lines. :)

Yeah, LtWW is pretty much religious propaganda. Thankfully, I read the series long, long ago while I was still too young to pick up on it. I sure won't be reading them to my kids, but good call on making the most of the situation with your son. Maybe Lewis' writings ARE useful!

[YankeyMCC]

6. LoL

[PassingFair]

2. When your son is a couple of years older...

Read the "His Dark Materials" Trilogy to him. I really liked these books, written by atheist Phillip Pullman. I think the first one is called the "Amber Spyglass", followed by "The Golden Compass" and "The Subtle Knife".

They were great, and there is a movie in the works.

[goddess40]

11. His Dark Materials is one of my favorite series too.

I have them on tape and it is read by a cast of people with the author as the narrator - it is out of this world good. Well worth the money or the trip to the library.

That bit about "act on faith not on reason" is a perfect teaching moment - how incredibly stupid.

[Gelliebeans]

3. My son's teacher read it aloud

to the class this year. He (my son), didn't like it half as much as the Harry Potter books but I never mentioned to him CS Lewis' extremism during the time. He is now reading The Hobbit and loves it.
I too have a problem with Lewis and his agenda so I go out of my way to find other authors that have fantasic stories without the underpinnings of christianity.
I think you are right to finish the book and move on. It sure makes you want to know more about what our kids are reading though.

[fshrink]

4. Ursula LeGuin is the best on all counts you mention. imo. nt.

[onager]

5. You nailed it perfectly!

Maybe there wont be harm but sonovabitch this book is insidious xian propaganda.

Absolutely!

How about this interesting quote, from one of the many websites devoted to Lewis:

Lewis preferred the company of men. He considered that women's minds were intrinsically inferior to men's.

Interesting, coming from a tedious gasbag who endlessly lectured us Mere Mortals about the subject of love.

Given that attitude, his weird relations with women are not too surprising.

According to some of his fans, Lewis promised to always take care of the mother and sister of a friend killed in WWI. In 1919 or so, Lewis moved the Mom, Janie King Moore, and her daughter Maureen into his house. At the time he was 21 and Mrs. Moore was 45. They lived together until Mrs. Moore died in 1951.

While this may have been on the up-and-up, Lewis never even told his own father about the arrangement. Which is sorta curious if he only did it out of Good Old Pure Xian Love And Charity.

His second marriage, to Joy Davidman, was made into the movie Shadowlands, which I found about as tiresome as Lewis' writing.

[YankeyMCC]

7. Reply to all

Thank you PassingFair for the book recommendation. That is filed away in my "to read" list for him and I'll check them out.

I have actually already read my son the Hobbit, it took a few months, just a few pages at a time at bed time and he loves the story. His a bright kid and has often surprised me with his understanding of complex stories.

Ursula LeGuin is a good suggestion. I've read many of her short Science Fiction stories and always enjoy them.

onager, that quote from Lewis on women's minds explains a lot of what I'm reading in this book.

Now I just have to remember to be tactful around my sister about it. :)

[immoderate]

8. Robert Heinlein's "Glory Road"

Is a great fantasy story. Unusual for the normally science fiction author. A lot of fun.

The Harry Potter books are great!

--IMM

[SheepyMcSheepster]

9. I read the whole series as a youngster

i was too young to really pick up on the religious overtones. that being said, i kind of enjoyed the series at that time in my life.
it would appear that if i reread the books now i would be banging into all sorts of religion.

i can't say that i am really interested in the movie, it looks like something that got the green light after the Lord of the Ring's success (mythology/fantastic scenery/adventure).

[YankeyMCC]

10. I'm guessing you're right on that

They are using the same special effects people that worked on LoTR, that's what initially got my attention.

[Arianrhod]

12. Lewis wasn't one-tenth the storyteller Tolkien was.

According to the Tolkein biography I have, JRR actually proselytized Lewis. After CS converted, the story goes, Tolkein (a Catholic), prayed, "Lord, I've brought him as far as the Anglican Church. The rest is up to you."

hahaha

Tolkein pretty much invented the genre of modern fantasy writing. His re-spelling of certain words ("elves" instead of "elfs") has become the norm. His depth of understanding of the human condition is astounding and heartbreakingly wonderful, and his vivid depiction of scene, landscape, and action is incredible. LoTR is the only fantasy book I own. (25th anniversary edition, single-bound volume, illuminated, opened but never read.) I think the movies do it great justice, and bring the entire epic to life. I spent a recent Saturday watching all three back-to-back, with a pizza and a bottle of wine. 9 1/2 hours very well spent. :)

Lewis, OTOH, was a Fundamentalist moron. Some of his stuff is ok--The Screwtape Letters is hilarious, and the third book of his space trilogy, That Hideous Strength, is also good. The latter is a very thinly veiled condemnation of the Cathars, a modern retelling of the heretical accusations brought against the Knights Templar in the 14th Century. It's odd and rather heretical itself, but an enjoyable story. But his personal views would easily be embraced by the likes of Falwell and Robertson. He was a religious nut, in every sense of the word.

[rexcat]

13. Not only is CS Lewis overly religious he was a racist bigot..

My wife and I read the Narnia series to our boys last year. I was shocked at the racists overtones.