Need a virtual hug -- just finished having big argument with wingnut neighbor

[beachmom]

Damn, I need to move!! I admit I started it a little, but she went on and on how there's no money for social security, and I couldn't help myself but point out that a certain president had pissed away the surplus from the '90s that would have saved social security.

I learned from Ms. Wingnut that:

1. Torture is okay as long as it saves American lives
2. Good christians like my neighbor (and that's what she called herself) are opposed to abortion and stem cell research, but see #1 for what is okay for a "good christian"
3. CNN (aka Communist News Network) is the one to be blamed for the Iraq War debacle
4. She HATES McCain, but for completely different reasons than why we're disappointed in him -- she went on Capitol Hill and heckled at him.
5. She's part of the 31% who approve of George Bush
6. She LOVES George Allen, and that the gaffe was just a little mistake. To my amazement, she had NO idea that Macaca meant monkey.
7. The Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans in terms of spending
8. Apparently, I am a socialist (interesting to hear)
9. Her husband is in the armed forces, and that's whose paid for their house and life, yet she hates the government and wants nothing to do with it (?).
10. She mocked me by saying "oh, so EVERYTHING has gone wrong in this country because of Bush". And I said, "yep".
11. All the facts I gave her were simply a "point of view". They're only "my reality".
12. The tax cuts saved our economy. She couldn't seem to accept the fact that a tax cut that is not funded is merely a tax hike for my kids.
13. Apparently, we're fighting over in Iraq so that we don't have to fight them here -- I pointed out that there are only 1,000 foreign fighters in the whole country, and the war is largely an ethnic one between Sunni/Shi'ite. The real war on terror is in Afghanistan.
14. She HATES France (WTF? What's France got to do with it?)


I think it'll be hours before my pulse goes back to normal. I really don't enjoy confrontations like this. Check this person off for "non-persuadeable". Also check off this complete sense of unreality as George Bush's "Base".

[beachmom]

1. Oh yeah, just remembered one more:

Democrats believe that illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote! I explained, no only U.S. citizens may vote -- anything else is illegal. That seemed to quiet her down.

When I told her of the shenanigans by Steele in Maryland, about the homeless people sent out to pass out pamphlets that said he was a Democrat, she really looked at me like I was gullible. My answer was, trust but verify. It's important to check your source.

Good God, what a terrible half hour to spend. Now I know to avoid her like the plague (and yes, when somebody's politics are so out of whack, I simply can't be friends with that person).

[cadmium]

12. Tell her that you appreciate her

firm stance against capitol punishment. It shows she is a spirtual woman and not a hypocrite like so mann other conservatives.

[fedupinBushcountry]

2. Here ya go

{{{{:hug:}}}}

I can only imagine what news station she watches and I'm sure good ole Pat Robertson's 700 club is blaring on her TV each morning.

Very true about the government and benefits of being in the military. Is her husband making a career out of it ? Because if he does she'll see exactly how much the government helped, it is a rude awakening, all those extras are not part of retiree pay.

I can't wait for our trip to Boston, and to get away from this red area for just a few days. ebb lost in V.B. and Chesapeake and won in all the other cities in Hampton roads. Chesapeake use to be blue, but has been turning red ever since the real estate boom there.

[sandrakae]

3. SHE'S A FUCKING HICK.

[emulatorloo]

4. Bush % approval rating = % Who still believe Saddam was behind 9-11

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2716291

Dunno, maybe that will make you feel better. Or maybe worse.

[sandnsea]

5. Oh you poor thing

I just bobble my head with the very few people I know who are that wing-nutty. It's really funny when they end the conversation with "There hasn't been a truly great President since Kennedy". :crazy:

:hug:

Not even Jesus could win 'em all!

[Island Blue]

6. As someone who lives in a red place and has

more than my fair share of Republican friends, acquaintances, business colleges and extended family members, I have learned to pick my battles well. There are some people whose minds I'm not going to change no matter what I say. The flip side to that of course is that they're not going to change my mind either, therefore I chose to find common ground with them in areas other than politics and/or religion. (Or else I chose not to find common ground with them and simply tolerate their presence only when absolutely necessary.)

When the NC/VA subcommittee meets in Boston, we'll have lots to talk about I'm sure. In the meantime - :hug:

[ginnyinWI]

11. yup, that's what ya gotta do

You have to change the subject and take comfort in the fact that it's a real pain to them that they can't change YOUR mind one iota, either. Just when I thought it was safe to say anything about politics to my parents recently, it turned out that I can't and that they are taking their talking points from RW talk radio and Religious Right radio just as much as ever. :(

[karynnj]

7. That's awful

:grouphug:

What an ugly mindset your neighbor has - so know we know what Allen supporters are like. I agree that she is in the non-persuadeable category.

I live in an area with old time Republicans - they are there for the tax cuts, but they are nice otherwise.

[ray of light]

8. Well, here's your vitual hug...

:hug: :hug:

BUT

If you ever do move, every time you see her giggle and point your finger.

(just kidding!) But maybe you could let her know you're praying for her.

[europegirl4jfk]

9. You poor girl!

:grouphug: I really feel sorry for you. I just realized how lucky I am to live in Europe where most of the people hate Bush. I honestly have never met anyone here who likes him. There are people who are indifferent but nobody likes him and/or would defend him.

As I have only been to blue states in the US my overall experience there wasn't bad either. It just happened twice that I came across wingnuts. The first was the sister of my daughter's host-mom in California. She ignored me and my daughter when she visited her sister because she couldn't for the world understand how her sister could receive a guest-student from France. LOL The sisters and their parents normally never talked about politics because the parents and "our" sister and hubby were Democrats and only the other sister and her husband were Republicans. Once, I think it was during the Thanksgiving Dinner, the father, a very nice older man, forgot about the conflict with his second daughter and said something negative about the Iraq war. His daughter attacked him immediately with the typical wingnut answer that "we fight the terrorists over there to not have to fight them here". She was so shrill that the whole room (about 20 people) fell silent. It was an awkward moment and gave me an idea how it must be in families that are politically divided.

The second time I met a wingnut was in Boston (of all places! LOL) last month. When my friend and I arrived in the hotel, we had a guy coming to our room to fix the internet connection to my laptop computer. When he saw my JK wallpaper, he said disgusted: "That's the guy who's friend with the people that want to cut our heads off." I didn't enter in an argument with him because as a foreigner I didn't feel I had the right to do that. But these are really good examples how the Reps talking points are repeated by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

[TayTay]

15. Yeah, but that guy in Boston was a moron.

He couldn't even give us good directions on how to get to the train station.

We have conservatives in Boston. You can see them walking around, talking to themselves, looking paranoid and stuff like that, all the time. It happens. But we also have Marriage Equality, a plan to get universal health care coverage and really, really great Senators. So, there are compensations for living in the Frozen North.

Come to Boston Beachmom. the first hug is on me. (We have some world-class huggers up here, honest.)

[europegirl4jfk]

16. Well, I met YOU just after having to deal with him...

... and that was compensation enough. ;-) Do you remember these people walking around with K. Healey signs when we were looking for the train station? They must be really happy now. LOL Other than this strange guy I only met nice people in MA, and in NH as well. The proof? I will be back in a few weeks! ;-)

[MBS]

10. oh, I'm so sorry

I grew up with these people, at their birthplace in southern California. To me, it's just a nightmare that they went national and "mainstream" , starting with Reagan presidency.
People living in blue bubbles have a hard time understanding that they exist. But they do: I've lived with them most of my life.

Even with my life experience, it still boggles my mind that they represent 31% of the electorate, even after 6 years of the nightmare of W. However, their voice is now diminished, starting last week.

You've already done such a brave service by talking with your neighbor; I had neighbors like that once in the mid-90's , and never had the guts to do what you did.. The closest we got to a public statement in that bright red neighborhood was my son dressing as Kenneth Starr for Halloween (I went with him , and we had a lot of fun.:)

We all need to keep talking; someday our country will learn to have a conversation again.

I love your list: it's a great summary of the reasons why I worked hard on both the 2004 and 2006 elections. I am a big fan of reality-based perspectives.

[beachmom]

13. Thanks, guys. I just got back from a Drinking Liberally movie night

And I'm kicking myself for not letting you know, Fedup. If you're interested, I'll PM you the next time they do this. Anyway, a weird guy with a big grey beard got up to speak, and at first he was great, until he started spouting the 9/11 conspiracy theories!! Ye Gods, Moses -- if I want to learn that stuff, I need only venture to DU GD!!

Anyway, it made me doubly appreciate all of you who are neither wingnut nor lefty freeper. But just right. Like Senator Kerry.

Weird side effect of my conversation with wingnut neighbor: I dislike McCain and Hillary a little bit less. They're pretty bad, but believe me, there is FAR WORSE out there. Wingnut said if the race is McCain vs. Hillary, she will vote 3rd party (Libertarian). That's when I realized I'll probably hold my nose and vote the D even if it's Hillary (during the middle of the joke kerfuffle, I was so mad at Hillary I vowed I wouldn't vote for her, but looks like wingnut changed my mind). I'm still hoping the media dream race never comes to be.

[wisteria]

14. She is a lost cause, I feel sorry for you. n/t

[beachmom]

17. Question: wingnut says the 9/11 Commission is called the Warren

Commission (which I thought was the investigation of JFK's assassination). Kean headed the 9/11 Commission. Is it or has it ever been referred to as the Warren Commission?

[Democrafty]

18. What? No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Commission

Two totally unrelated things.

[beachmom]

19. That's what I thought -- she INSISTED it was called the Warren

Commission. Sometimes when people come out of nowhere with something so bizarre, I just think -- my God, did I miss something.

Thank you. I knew she was wrong, but just wanted to double check so I knew I hadn't lost my mind.

[Democrafty]

20. Oh, so she didn't just misspeak?

Bizarre!!!

Is she a conspiracy theorist or something? I wonder why she is relating those two things.

[beachmom]

21. I said the Bakers commission was going to be a sham

and she said the 9/11 Commission (which she called the Warren commission, not referring to JFK) was a sham, too. I don't get that. She LOVES Bush, so I have no clue how it could be a sham to her eyes, unless she thinks Bill Clinton should be 100% blamed for everything -- that would make sense.

[karynnj]

22. Some people say the Warren committee was a sham

- we had conspiracy theories then too.

[_dynamicdems]

23. She's not worth the trouble or worth getting upset over.

Some people are asshats. Some people are selfish. Some people are stupid. Some people are stubborn. And some are clinically insane! It sounds like your neighbor is all of the above.

Consider her a lost cause, but think of the people who listen to her and her ilk. They spread their disinformation and poison, so we need to keep fighting to spread the truth. So in a twisted way, people like your neighbor serve a purpose: keeping us ever vigilent. Even Eden had its serpents.

Sometimes it feels like fighting against the tide and sometimes it feels thankless, so this one is for you: THANK YOU for all the hard work you do! :hug: :patriot:

[WildEyedLiberal]

24. A virtual hug for beachmom

Dealing with wingnuts THAT far gone is like :banghead:

There's always a place for you at the Oasis of Sanity that is the Kerryforum! :hi: