Hillary says people need to get to know the "real" her. I'd say we just did, end of October.

[MH1]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6643989

To those people who may not like her as a presidential candidate, Clinton says, "I would say what I said to people in New York who said the very same thing: 'Let me introduce myself to you, really. You may think you know about me, but I may be the most famous person you know very little about.'

"I'd like to make sure the record is clear and then people can make their own judgments."

I heard this on NPR this morning and my first thought was, "oh, we know you quite well, you opportunistic ----."

Sorry if that is uncharitable, and yes, I welcome her turnaround on the war. But as far as whether we "know her", I'd say she revealed that at the end of October in her incredible display of either cluelessness or classlessness. I don't think she's clueless, so I'm going with classless, as well as putting her own ambition before the party, the country, and common human decency.

You all know exactly what I am talking about.

NPR sometimes reads letters on the air. I think you can even call and leave a message and they may play it.


Edit to add, for lurkers who may not know: I was once a strong advocate of holding fire on Hillary. No more. When she stabbed Kerry in the back with either no thought or no care of how that might affect not just him, but the Democratic Party's success in the upcoming election, and thus the people of this country - that was the end of that. I don't hold fire on people who undermine other Democrats and the party.

[whometense]

1. MH, I'm with you 100% on this.

I believe Clinton, just like the Bushies, thinks the american voter is an idiot. Don't know you? To me that's just another way of saying, let me tell you how I want you to see me now.

"I'd like to make sure the record is clear and then people can make their own judgments."

What a load of bull.

You can't do something as utterly soulless as she did to JK and then turn around and try to charm me. Ain't gonna work. I have a very long memory.

[karynnj]

14. Count me in total agreement with you and MH

For decades I resisted referring to any woman as a b****, because there was no comparable denigation of men. That action changed that - rather shocking my husband.

As MH said, that stabbing was calculated to continue the story that was beginning to die out. The polls already showed that it was definately not hurting the Democrats. It also was entirely hypocritical as she defended her husband's bullying of Wallace. It also may be that the cold, nasty tone of the video will hurt her more than the flubbed joke will hurt Kerry.

It's always been said that something hurts only when it fits the pattern for the person. Kerry really isn't unusually gaffe prone - so over time, it should be seen as an abberation - as he campaigns well and excells in the debates. Oddly, it might even make him more human to people who react to him as they did to the smartest kid in the class who always knew the answer. It also will force him to take credit for his work for veterans that he rarely talked about.

For Hillary, the colness in the video when she said that is chilling. That she knows Kerry well and knew what he was doing and knew how close to his heart the welfare of the troops and veterans is makes it worse - she knew she was perpetuating a lie. The problem for her is she already was fighting a reputation of being cold. The eye rolling that she does and the strident tone of her voice all were things she needed to work on. She is genuinely less likable the more you see her.

One thing to think about is that in 2004, Kerry did get a large number of Democratic veterans in the primary. I seriously doubt this helps Hillary and after an outreach by Kerry, I doubt it will hurt him. I bet they would rather have a beer with him than Hillary.

[beachmom]

2. You got that right. I also wasn't willing to go after her, but when

she committed that act of betrayal, well, let's just say the "honeymoon" was over.

[MBS]

3. add my voice to the chorus n/t

[TayTay]

4. All bills come due. Hers will too!

Sooner or later, maybe later, in the dark, when she has time to ask exactly what it is she wants and how she set about doing it and who she sacrificed to do so, it will dawn on her that maybe, the goal itself has been denied, by the very actions she took to seek it.

The Ballad of Reading Gaol
by Oscar Wilde.

Yet each man kills the thing he loves,
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!

Some kill their love when they are young,
And some when they are old;
Some strangle with the hands of Lust,
Some with the hands of Gold:
The kindest use a knife, because
The dead so soon grow cold.

Some love too little, some too long,
Some sell, and others buy;
Some do the deed with many tears,
And some without a sigh:
For each man kills the thing he loves,
Yet each man does not die.

[rox63]

5. Thanks for posting this, Tay

Oscar Wilde is a favorite of mine. I'd never thought to apply this piece to HRC, but it fits.

[TayTay]

8. I think sadly of her sometimes

I remember when Bill Clinton was running for the Presidency in 1992. Hillary Clinton has a passion for helping children, getting Americans health care and doing something about getting government to connect with it's own people.

There was a day recently, when 11 Americans lost their lives in Iraq. Senators Clinton and Lieberman held a press conference and discussed the ratings on video games.

I wonder sometimes where Hillary Clinton went and what happened to her beliefs. I really do.

"The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality." Dante.

[rox63]

9. It's sad

to see that passion snuffed out by calculating ambition. :(

[wisteria]

12. Oh, another good one, Dante. n/t

[wisteria]

10. Oscar Wilde- I love his writing. n/t

[ProSense]

6. Agree!

She needed to be a strong voice on withdrawal, especially when it was debated on the Senate floor in June. Why has she remained silent?

When she stabbed Kerry in the back, I learned a lot about her and her silence on Iraq.

[wisteria]

7. Oh, I agree. October was a real unforgettable turning point for me.

I don't care to learn anymore about her. For me, she represents what needs to change in Washington and within our party. IMO, she is no leader and if she can even get elected, she would be a mediocre President.i base this opinion on her voting record and public comments on important issues. That in itself bothers me, because if she makes it and is awful, it will be many years before another woman is chosen to run for President. I really want to see a woman become President, but not HRC, she doesn't deserve it or want the position for the right reasons.

[Inuca]

13. One more reason that I am afraid of HRC as the next president

she will want to show that, though a woman, she can be "tough", and this is most definitely not the time for such an attitude. Except this, I agree with all the comments up-thread, I was not crazy about her, but was tickled by the idea of a woman president. Now I do NOT want it to happen. I do so much hope that all those early polls, etc. that put her WAY ahead of anybody else, including Obama, are completely wrong & irrelevant. It was disheartening nevertheless to see yesterday De Niro in Hardball saying Clinton and/or Obama as the next president. Speaking of Obama, did you guys happen to catch the segment on Obama on The Daily Show last week? Obama as The Anointed One, whose touch heals, etc., pretty hilarious and to the point.

[wisteria]

16. My advise is to ignore the pundits. Don't let them get to you.

They are all going along with the media hype and CW as they see it. They no more than we do. The only info they subscribe to is gossip. I really think 08 is going to come down to ideas and experience along with debate.

[mloutre]

11. Over the years, Ms. Clinton has managed to

take even the things that were pluses about herself and turn them into cold, hard, calculated minsues instead.

[ray of light]

15. Lately, I've been trying very hard to think like a nonpolitical person

would think, and I really think people already know the real her.

They remember her "baking cakes' comment.

They remember her "right winged conspiracy" comment.

And I have no clue what a nonpolitical person would think of her comments with regards to the gaffe. Most online people saw right through that.

[wisteria]

17. Everyone I come in contact with who are not following politics or could care

less about them, have told me without hesitation, I will not vote for Hillary, and oh, please, I hope the Dem's don't push her- I can't vote for her- I just can't. Honestly, I have had only one person tell me they would vote for her and many, many negatives. On the other hand, when I mention Kerry, I get responses like, I would vote for him again to very enthusiastic responses like, I really liked him, he was my guy in 04, I would vote for him again.

[Inuca]

18. How do these people that you...

...refer to in your post justify/explain their anti-Hillary attitude? I would be really curious to know. One more "from the guts" to paraphrase Colbert comment about her and why I dislike the idea of her being the next president: she is doubtless a smart woman, BUT nobody would even think about her candidacy if she were not Bill's wife, not to mention that it is extremely unlikely that she would have gotten the NY Senate seat if not for the same association. And I want the first woman president to get the job STRICTLY on her own merits, not because of her association with a philandering husband.

[wisteria]

22. I honestly can't answer your question. I would guess a lot of it has to do

with the idea that she is demanding and calculating. Pres. Clinton's negatives became hers too only manifested because she is a woman who does not project any kind of warmth about her. I have had someone describe her as a shriveled up shrew. Others, possible do not want a repeat Clinton White House. This may all be the old media driven description of her, but IMO, she does not go over well at all. And, my guess is any excuse may be enough justification for some not to vote for her at all. I tell you, those high poll numbers for her are very, very questionable.

[ray of light]

24. I believe the poll numbers about her are questionable in that

it's Republicans who WANT her to win the primary because she'd be easier to beat in the general election.

[Island Blue]

19. Like others here, I learned everything I needed to know about Mrs. Clinton

in October '06. Other than that, what has she been hiding that she suddenly has a burning desire to share with the American public. She's been in the spotlight now for at least 14 years. Please Hillary, do tell.

[sandnsea]

20. Turnaround on the war? Oh puhleeze

What did she say - obviously if we knew there weren't WMD, we wouldn't have had a vote at all, which is the cop-out that even Republicans are using.

That is completely different than knowing Bush manipulated the intelligence and lied in order to go to war - and consequently regretting your vote. I have not heard her come anywhere near saying that she is angry about the intelligence that got us into this war, and having been lied to.

I don't remember her ever going out on a limb on anything related to this war, she's always bringing up the rear after everyone else has taken the hits.

Blech. I just don't like her.

[whometense]

21. And in the

"politics makes strange bedfellows" department, The Carpetbagger has this charming GHW Bush comment:
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9383.html

* And, finally, former U.S. President George H.W. Bush said in Japan this week that he would be an aggressive opponent of Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Bush 41 told students at Waseda University in Tokyo that, in 2008, “I’ll be back on the other side (of politics), and I will be trying to beat the hell out of her, if I possibly can.” Remember, he’s supposed to be the classy diplomat in the family.

How will that go over with his new best buddy Bill, I wonder?

One of the commenters had this to say:

H.W Bush doesnt do ANYTHING for the Republican Party in general ONLY HIS FAMILY…this leads me to believe that Jeb is running for the 2008 nomination….BOOK IT!!!!

hmmmmm....

[wisteria]

23. Jeb? Sure why not, just what we need another Bush in the WH.

This is possibly even more reason for JK to run again.

[blm]

26. Can anyone download that portion of LKL Kerry interview where they showed clips

of McCain, Hillary and Bush all attacking Kerry as if he insulted the troops?

That would make a great YouTube video. Hillary - what made you side with Bush and McCain's lies when you knew the truth?

[karynnj]

28. Not to mention

the chutzpah of her schoolmarmish " inappropriate" statement. Senator Kerry simply botched a joke. You don't botch a joke on purpose.

So, was the inappropriateness that he took the RW to task for deliberately misinterpreting his words to say something at odds with a 35 year record of exemplary support for veterans. Didn't she just praise her husband for his bullying, finger in the face rant with Chris Wallace. Senator Kerry demonstrated far more restraint and focused on the correct target when he refused to let the RW charge of not supporting the troops stand. Clinton attacked Wallace who asked about an unfair movie and charge. He was out of control and Hillary didn't find it inappropriate, Kerry was in control and had to respond. (In the Q&A part, Kerry was soft spoken and thoughtful in responding to questions on McCain's response.

I hope enough people see those snippets - Kerry is respectful, says he wasn't speaking of the troops and attacks the attack. McCain, Hillary and Bush are vile.

[BlueIris]

25. Yeah.

And blech. Still so disappointed.

[emulatorloo]

27. I demand Hillary Clinton apologize to John Kerry

She knew what Kerry meant, but she spewed the right wing spin anyway.

[karynnj]

29. Hillary hires the woman who engineered Bayh's fundraising effort

She is also the wife of Mark Penn.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3024432

I posted to support the OP.

My post:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3024432&mesg_id=3024970

This might be pretty significant if she can capture these contributors for Hillary.

[wisteria]

30. She may teach everyone a lesson, in that in some cases, money

no matter how much, will not get you elected. I hope this election comes down to the things that really matter and not her bob barding the airwaves and our mail with Hillary 24/7 while her team smears other opponents through some control of the media and message. Our country deserves better than Hill.

[karynnj]

31. It may come down to whether she is a marketable product

She has huge advantages in money and contacts. Now, in 2004, Dean had something like $40 million that he blew in Iowa and NH that was raised in December 2003. That was when Kerry raised $6 million by mortgaging his house.

In December 2003, Dean had the polls listing him as number one, had simultaneously been on the cover of 3 national magazines, had the endorsement of the last nominee, had the Deaniacs and the netroots - and got 18% of the vote. Dean had Harkin's endorsement. Kerry had the endorsement of Vilsack's wife.

2004 showed that a candidate could win with less money, less high profile party support and less media. That was the untold story of 2004. Why untold - the media would be admitting it was not a king maker.

Kerry won because when it came down to it more people chose him. They didn't "buy" Dean, Clark or Edwards - all of whom had far more media support.

[whometense]

32. Absolutely.

People have very short memories, but that's exactly what happened.