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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:32 PM
Original message
Steve Clemons promoting Biden
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 12:32 PM by whometense
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think we need to expect this. Biden is chairman of the SFRC and
he will be promoting himself as an expert at the expense of others like Senator Kerry. I will post something to that effect that Biden is late to the game so to speak, Kerry has already addressed this.
I also thought the Kerry comment was un-call for and not appropriate. Oh, I bet you wouldn't have to search to long or hard to find an instance where Biden voted for something, then voted against it.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. actually you don't need to even look at votes
he is infuriating on the SFRC by stating n good reasons for rejecting a candidate followed by, "but I'll vote for you". and he said he liked Gonzales.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. EXACTLY the point
that came into my mind when I read what Clemons wrote. I mean, really - who is Biden??
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Biden is late to the party on this
I don't like Clemons snark about Kerry and I don't agree with his assessment of the more troops issue.

I agree with Paul Rieckhoff on this in this huffPo column: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-rieckhoff/a-larger-military-warm-b_b_36831.html
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I agree with both of you.
Clemons is very moderate - that is to say, politically he's more of an old-fashioned republican than a dem, so it's not surprising he might choose to stand by Biden on this.

But Biden is:

late
risking nothing - at this point you can hardly call this a brave stand
trodding all over JK to get wherever it is he thinks he's going - over my dead body, I say. Biden is the ultimate opportunist.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. But fortunately - he is an obvious opportunist
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 01:55 PM by karynnj
The good thing is that if both Biden and Kerry run - they have to stand on a stage together. One has obvious class, the other could only copy it.

Biden was even a jerk as a surrogate. What kind of surrogate - when asked of voting on the candidate's defense bill - "he got it wrong - he should have voted yes for both"

i also remember seeing both on the secret prisons bill in the Senate. Biden seemed to have difficulty understanding Kerry's solution. This after Kerry's very polished speech and Biden's almost sloppy one. This does even mention the difference between the well dressed and groomed Kerry and the unimpressive looking Biden.

I suspect Biden is likely being given this push to prevent a more desirable candidate from leading on Iraq. (Kerry was the logical one, and Dodd is better than Biden)
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Biden is less well-known
He has to do certain things in order to get some publicity. Not everyone has a 3,000,000+ e-mail list, LOL!

In all seriousness, it is going to be difficult for the Dems to keep their differences on Iraq going for the primaries. There will be a lot more of this. Biden is Center on Iraq. Dodd is between Biden and Kerry. So is Obama and so is Clinton.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Biden is just godawful -
it's a great illustration of how contorted a position the "left" can get itself twisted into in order to avoid the obvious - that JK is far and away the leader on this.

And Dodd is way preferable to Biden. The man has character. Just writing a post about this now. http://toughenough.org/2006/12/experience-vs-character.html

What do you think?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I like your post
" For all his years in the Senate, I have no idea what kind of ideals Biden stands for. "

But we know he's Irish Catholic and that he didn't go to Princeton.

I agree that Dodd is far better than Biden - and I'm glad his opinions seem to be changing in the right direction. He was also great speaking on torture.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thanks.
I'm often not sure of my facts - I read a lot, but don't have the patience to compare position papers. So the info sorts itself out in my brain, but I'm not a confident arguer.

I do think I'm a pretty good judge of character, though. And that really is my biggest criterion.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I agree with what you wrote
Biden will have huge problems with the left in '08 and it might not be a year in which people are looking for moderates. (Maybe, we won't know that for a long time to come.)

Biden voted for the Bankruptcy bill, he said this about the filibuster (which he voted to uphold and he also voted to deny Alito the seat on the Supreme Court):


U.S. Senator Joseph Biden (D-De) Is Interviewed On Cbs'S "Early Show"
(01-27-2006)

SMITH: Your colleague, Senator John Kerry, is interested in putting together a filibuster to block the confirmation of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court. Do you want to help him out?

BIDEN: No. I think that a filibuster is not likely to bear any fruit here. We already have four Democrats who've announced they're going to vote for Judge Alito. That gets it down to a pretty slim majority.

I think we should make fulsome statements as to why -- in my case, why I think Judge Alito should not go on the bench. He gives much too much power to the presidency, thinks the president can go to war without the consent of Congress, et cetera.

But a filibuster, I think, is not likely to occur. But who knows? One man can generate a filibuster.


On the Iraq War Withdrawal Amendment:


THE WAR IN IRAQ /
Kerry's stand on fixed date for troop pullout roils party /
As the Senate prepares to debate issue, Democrats attempt to create a broader consensus
Houston Chronicle,(06-21-2006)
By KATE ZERNIKE

WASHINGTON

WASHINGTON - When Sen. John Kerry was their presidential nominee in 2004, Democrats fervently wished that he would express himself firmly about the Iraq war.

Kerry has found his resolve. But it has not made his fellow Democrats any happier. They fear the latest evolution of Kerry's views on Iraq may complicate their hopes of taking back the majority in Congress in 2006.

As the Senate prepared for what promises to be a bitter debate starting today about whether to begin pulling troops from Iraq, the Democratic leadership wants its members to rally behind a proposal that calls for some troops to move out by the end of this year but would not set a fixed date for complete withdrawal.

Kerry has insisted on setting a date, for all U.S. combat troops to pull out in 12 months, saying that anything less is too cautious.

In drawing up a schedule for today's session, the Democratic leadership has arranged for its plan to be debated first, pushing Kerry and his proposal into the evening, too late for the nightly television news, to starve it of some attention.

Senate Democrats have been loath to express their opinions publicly, determined to emphasize a united front.

But interviews suggest a frustration with Kerry, never popular among the caucus, and still unpopular among many Democrats for failing to beat a president they considered vulnerable.

Privately, some of his Democratic peers complain that he is too focused on another date: 2008, and the next presidential campaign.

Kerry describes the war in Iraq as a mistake, even though he once supported it.

His critics say they believe the new stand reflects more politics than principle, and ignores other Democrats' concern that setting a fixed date will leave those in tough re-election fights open to Republican taunts that they are "cutting and running" in Iraq.

The Democrats' exasperation has increased in the past week, as they postponed a vote on Kerry's amendment to try to fashion a broader consensus among themselves.

Democrats up for re-election asked him not to propose a fixed date. But Kerry, several Democrats said, was unwilling to budge from that idea.

In the end, Kerry agreed only to extend his deadline, from Dec. 31 of this year to July 2007.

Kerry's insistence on pushing ahead with his own plan has left the Democrats divided, and open to renewed Republican accusations that they are indecisive and weak.

"There are certain Democrats who think that this is over, that we've lost or that there's nothing constructive the president is going to do," said Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, who, like Kerry, is considering running for the presidency.

"What it really is, in fairness to them, is a frustration that they see no learning curve on the part of this administration. I can understand that frustration. But setting a date is not a plan."

In a telephone interview on Tuesday, Kerry characterized his statement as the position of strength, and said his party had made a mistake not to take a firm stand on a pullout date.

"The Democrats need to be strong and stand up ... ," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, we should go right at Karl Rove and his phony tough talk."


There are Democrats who take unpopular stands and piss off the Dem caucus and then there are Dems who stand and watch and criticize and really take no stand before it has been poll-tested for it's tepidness. I think I know where Biden is.

BTW, Kerry was 100% right in pushing this amendment. He was criticized for this on political grounds. Ahm, he could not have been more right, on political grounds, as it was the #1 issue in '06.



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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Thanks for those transcripts.
I think I know where Biden is, too. And it's not covering him with glory to be there. His Alito comments are just nauseating.
    I think we should make fulsome statements as to why -- in my case, why I think Judge Alito should not go on the bench. He gives much too much power to the presidency, thinks the president can go to war without the consent of Congress, et cetera.

    But a filibuster, I think, is not likely to occur. But who knows? One man can generate a filibuster.

What I really have trouble understanding is this drive on the "left" for whatever they define as a "new face". I honestly do not understand where that comes from, and apparently am lacking that essential democratic gene. When I find someone I like I have no problem with the fact that there face is not new. And that I know where they stand on issues of importance.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. I figured that was coming with all the articles
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 01:20 PM by karynnj
and DU threads. It is clear the media wants someone other than Kerry leading it. I'm glad they picked Biden rather than say - Obama. Biden has in the past worn out his welcome quickly. Kerry will still speak - and speak better than anyone else.

THe pot shot at Kerry in Clemons piece is despicable and out of context - which I commented on on the Huffington Post - which will likely print it tommorrow!. (I recocnize the name - but can't remember if he is usually nicer to Kerry.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I think he's usually fairly neutral
towards Kerry - but as I said above, Kerry's politics are way more liberal than his. Why he'd pick Biden (why anyone would pick Biden, frankly) is way beyond me. To me, Biden and Richardson are simply not presidential material, however much people might wish differently.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Maybe Clemons has been hired by Biden
to be his blog "consultant", much like Markos was hired by Dean.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Very possible. n/t
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I tend to think that the Biden pieces are more him and his people pushing
him on the media as part of a PR push. I think Biden wants to make sure he gets some press on this issue.After all, he is running for president. I understand he held a press conference call on this issue a day or two ago so I would expect this. He couldn't make the Sunday circuit so he found another way to get to the press.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-27-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Clemons is a tool! He actually isn't for immediate withdrawal
Edited on Wed Dec-27-06 01:50 PM by ProSense
Clemons is a huge Lincoln Chaffee fan and praises Hagel. He seems to have a problem with the only person who has been right on Iraq all along.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. Shaun at Upper Left has a post
Edited on Thu Dec-28-06 10:50 AM by whometense
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. That's excellent! Thanks! n/t
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. It realy was worth the read. Thanks. n/t
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-28-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Thanks for posting this
I went over and showed his post a little love. Feel free to do so as well, if you are so inclined. :)
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