LA Times story ignores Republican Imus guests

[globalvillage]

I have stayed out of the Imus fray so far, but this story deserves a rebuttal. Characterizing Imus' show as a 'soapbox' for Dems has less to do with the Imus show, and more to do with what else is available to any politician that isn't of the far right persuasion.

Democratic politicians lose a soapbox with firing of Don Imus

...

And today, with Imus' career in tatters, the fate of the controversial shock jock is stirring quiet but heartfelt concern in an unlikely quarter: among Democratic politicians.

That's because, over the years, Democrats such as Ford came to count on Imus for the kind of sympathetic treatment that Republicans got from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity.

...

Though Imus was a regular destination for the likes of Dodd, Ford, Lieberman, 2004 Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John F. Kerry and others — as well as such GOP figures as Sen. John McCain of Arizona — his influence has long been debated.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-imuspol13apr13,0,2734444.story?coll=la-home-headlines

The story is true, in the sense that 'Imus in the Morning' was a place for politicians, Democrat and Republican, to be seen. But sympathetic? Imus' whole shtick is to trash every guest on his show except John McCain. Yes, it's a place to get some air time, but it's certainly no Dem love fest.

Imus's site lists some of his guests. I've selected a few:

Tucker Carlson
Bob Dole
Doug Forrester
Rudy Giuliani
JD Hayworth
Mike Huckabee
Laura Ingraham
Mary Matalin
John McCain
Oliver North
Warren Rudman
JC Watts

Joe Lieberman (IFL)
Zell Miller (sheesh)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080488/


Yes, there are Dems on the list as well, including Sen Kerry. But for the Times to ignore every Republican except John McCain is more than a little disingenuous.
Senator Kerry has appeared on Bill O'Reilly's show multiple times. I doubt the Senator agrees with much of what BillO has to say, but he goes there to reach an audience. Unless MSNBC replaces Imus with someone truly godawful, I expect the Senator to show up there as well.

An appearance is not an endorsement. Not for the guest or the host. Unless, of course, O'Reilly is a secret Kerry supporter.

[beachmom]

1. Like it or not, it was the Left that started this witch hunt.

Of course, it was only a matter of a mouse click to know that BOTH sides went on the show, and that Imus endorsed Kerry in '04. It was Media Matters who started this whole thing in the first place. But maybe it's good that this has happened -- that our side, for which the AA community votes for overwhelmingly, should have zero tolerance for going on shows where racist remarks have been known to fly.

I always liked how Kerry came across on Imus -- more relaxed, just one of the guys, but able to intelligently discuss serious issues like Iraq. His calling into Imus's show the day after he was scalped in the media for "the joke" is no coincidence -- it was a better venue than most, although Imus didn't end up being all that sympathetic. I mean where can he go? Morning news shows are combatant, Sunday shows are are adversarial, cable shows (depending on the interviewer) are slightly less adversarial than Sunday shows, but not relaxed either. In fact, the only place he could go better than Imus is liberal talk radio, which doesn't have a very big audience. So I GET why he went on the show. But . . .

In light of the RACIST remarks he has made in the past, this should have been a known fact to Kerry's staff, and he should have not gone on the show. There, I have said it. I didn't know that Imus had called Gwen Ifill the "cleaning lady", and that there were many who refused to go on his show because of his known past for these kinds of remarks. Kerry shouldn't have either.

This is how I feel, and that's fine if others disagree. I'm not going to argue this any further. This is my position. It was a mistake to continue to go on that show in light of Imus's remarks, which didn't start with the Rutgers Basketball team.

[globalvillage]

5. And O'Reilly seems to hate Liberals

so I guess Sen Kerry shouldn't go on his show either. I suppose Sen Kerry could just come here and talk to us. That would be nice.

There are all kinds of bigots in this world. I'm not sure if Imus is one of them. His statements certainly make him appear that he is, but only Imus knows what's in his heart. He has said some very bad things, and done some very good things. So have I, come to think of it.

You know, this whole thing smacks of the argument that we should only have discussions with people we agree with. I've never believed that to be a good policy. My point is that the guest doesn't have to agree with the host, or the host with the guest. Showing up is not an endorsement. It's just an appearance. Nothing more.

I wouldn't be disappointed to see or hear Sen Kerry on Limbaugh or Hannity or Beck or Howard Stern. They have an audience, and better for them to hear a positive message than to only hear one point of view.

So, I suppose we just disagree. It happens.

[fedupinBushcountry]

8. I agree

Also, I would say that JK would not go on shows like Limbaugh, Hannity or Beck because it would not help him get his message out and surely he would be edited to no end to get only what they want to hear. I don't lump Howard Stern into that group of RW pundits because I really don't know exactly what he would do, but I know that he also voted for and was pushing for JK in '04, to me that shows that he has some common sense and is totally not all about "shock jock" when it comes to what is best for the country. Do I like Howard Stern ? No, but when I see a bit of his true self come out and tells me that "shock jock" pays his bills but does not totally control his inner being. That probably doesn't make sense to some here, but it is JMO, and I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

You know once my daughter came home from school with a bad grade in English because according to the teacher her opinion of the story she had to write on was not the same as the teacher's opinion. I told her that it was wrong that a teacher not listen to a different take (opinion) of the story and that never let anyone say you don't have a right to your opinion.

Also I find it quite amazing as many here just a few short weeks ago were thanking Imus for a great interview with JK and THK on their book. I saw many kudos to Imus for a real interview and for letting them speak. That was the common sense and respectable Imus that day. Now and even though we all knew the "shock jock" part of Imus we are only to hear the ugly side and some how JK is thrust into that side only.

Just my .02

[Democrafty]

9. I agree with all of these points, and I really appreciated what

guests like Harold Ford and Senator Kerry and some really respected public servants and authors brought to Imus' show.

Any time I ever enjoyed listening to the show, it was thanks to the diversity of opinions there - in other words, it was because not everybody on it was an Imus clone. So lumping all of Imus' guests together ignores the fact that Imus was providing a way better forum for discussion than is available on most of the airways.

And once again, I'm not sorry Imus got fired, because he did go too far too many times. But I'm not going to dismiss anybody who took a chance on having a dialog with him. At the very least, I think Imus learned something, and he was the one who needed to - not many of his guests.

[beachmom]

10. No, there is a major difference:

When John Kerry goes on Bill O'Reilly, or if he went on any of those right winger shows, EVERYBODY knows he's going into the lion's den. Why? Because they and guests on their shows have said worse things about Kerry than they even have said about minorities. Excuse me, but everybody knows the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were on O'Reilly night after night after night. So Kerry going on Fox News, is taking the fight to the enemy's territory -- he doesn't have to answer for Bill O's vile words, because some of the worst of it was targeted AGAINST Kerry.

Imus is different. He is a friend of the Kerrys, and his wife, too. Sure, Imus ribbed JK all the time, but it was all in good fun. When Kerry went on Imus, it was largely in "friendly territory", and you all know this.

Imus called Gwen Ifell the "cleaning lady", and she has refused to go on his show. She was a moderator for the vice presidential debate for crying out loud, but to Imus and his ilk, nothing has changed since the days of slavery.

I'm not going to defend the indefensible. I suppose I should just shut up, under the rule, "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". Maybe that means taking a break from DU, like Sandnsea is doing.

[Democrafty]

14. What about those of us who find it devastating

that JK would go on O'Reilly after O'Reilly harrassed that woman? And actually, TDS and Colbert Report have contained PLENTY of sexist humor, IMO. Not enough for me to stop watching, but it's there.

So please don't tell us what we do or don't know - there is such a huge range of opinion on what is offensive or isn't, what should have happened and what shouldn't have. And what's important is to figure out where to go from here - we can't exactly go back in time and keep JK from going on Imus. We can, however, try to learn something from it for the future.

[wisteria]

7. Then I suppose he should also stay away from Bill Maher, John Stewart and

Colbert. Maher has said things in the past that some would call shocking and Stewart and Colbert have the potential to still say something at some point that someone or some group will find objectionable. Why, even the RW could find fault with Stewart in the way he denigrates and disrespects our President. So, what does that leave? The Tonight Show and David Letterman? Even they have been known to say disparaging things now and again.

One, last thing, if you are reading this, Imus' remarks over a 30-35 year span, you and so many others are using as proof positive of him being a racist, do you really think this is fair?. You are usually a very fair person, sticking with Sullivan for as long as you did and defending him, hasn't it come to mind, that a list that just represents bad comments is unfair? Doesn't it seem that with just presenting one side- the bad side- there was an effort to make the man look really bad? He has been known to compliment many people too, many of them AA's as well as women. Just thought I would mention this.

I don't share your opinion on Kerry's continued involvement with the show, but I suspect you already know that, so I won't even go into it. It is nice that we can disagree and still come together though. Peace.

[beachmom]

11. Actually, I think he should stay away from Maher, who really

hasn't been much of a friend to Democrats anyway. His show has gone downhill.

As to Stewart and Colbert, the only time they have met controversy, it was positive. Stewart smacking down Crossfire, and Colbert giving it to the president to his face.

I have NEVER heard anything offensive on those shows. Stewart and Colbert aren't shock jocks or comedians. They're simply very, very funny and very, very mainstream. Just like Keith Olbermann. Or Leno or Letterman, for that matter.

As to Imus, I don't know what is in his heart. But what has come out of his mouth is clearly racist and sexist. No bones about it. Too bad, because he's done great stuff for sick children and wounded veterans.

[wisteria]

28. Funny I will agree with, but mainstream for Colbert and Stewart- not entirely.

Also, just because you haven't heard them say anything doesn't me they haven't.

As for Maher, well, he is a very, very smart man and yes he can be outrageous, but he knows his stuff and he says things sometimes that need to be brought out in the open. Lenny Bruce was that way too. They are cutting edge. Beside, I am not sure how I really feel about this exclusionary stuff. I think Senator Kerry should be fee to go on any show he feels comfortable on regardless of how we view the content.

[politicasista]

17. He insulted Venus and Serena Williams when they were teens

comparing them to animals (very offensive) and saying they belong in National Geographic Explorer magazine instead of Playboy. Serena was on Larry King Live saying she had no love lost for Imus, and was not suprised that he was fired.

[wisteria]

27. She is entitled to her opinion. She has personal feeling against him.

Again, Imus insulted everyone and often praised everyone, to just single out the negative and use just that to accuse someone of anti-racial behavior is just wrong. I am sorry Serena didn't care for Imus comments, I also often didn't care for Imus' comments. That doesn't mean I though he really meant what he said all the time.

[karynnj]

15. You explain why it was a tricky question whether to go on or not

As you conclude, there were few places a liberal Democrat can go on and be less formal and relax. The audience size was not the biggest problem with most of liberal radio.

Two bigger problems were that they spoke only to the converted and many of them had problems with saying things that were likely further than Kerry (or most Senators) would go and they were things that if said in Kerry's presence would place him into saying something that would enflame DU and DKos or be slammed in the MSM and by Republicans and some Democrats.

Olberman, while left leaning, is just entertainment with little real content - the Daily Show has better news segments.

The risks of going on Imus were pretty low - Jon Meachem, who seems to put religion on every other Newsweek cover was there. Also, Kerry could easily discourage/slam any bad comment Imus would have made in his presense easily.

[ProSense]

2. Yeah, and I'm still waiting on the

WSJ and LA Times articles on this.

[beachmom]

3. They're all from the Right, though. And the Right holds a monopoly

on the racist vote.

The Imus thing is about cleaning house. He was the easiest to take down, because he was MSM and had a lot of Dems on his show (Republicans, too, but still, how many Democrats go on all those other guys' shows, save Bill O'?). From the Dem side, there is some embarrassment right now, but it is SAVING them embarrassment in the future. Better now than at the height of the '08 race (congressional AND presidential). That's why we'll look back on this, and know we're not the worse without Imus, and Kerry is better off, never going on his show again.

[ProSense]

4. Well let me add this Media Matters commentary

"Media Matters"; by Jamison Foser

Don't think twice: Media inured to subtler smears, pervasive sexism

Now that MSNBC and CBS Radio have both dropped Don Imus, and the Rutgers basketball team has accepted his apology, Imus himself is no longer the most interesting thing about the controversy he touched off with his racist and sexist comments about the team -- if he ever was, that is.

One of the more interesting aspects of the controversy is whether (and why) Imus' guests -- some of the most influential and respected journalists and public figures in America among them -- have, by their appearances on his show, tacitly endorsed his behavior. Time.com Washington editor Ana Marie Cox, a frequent Imus guest, explained this week how she came to overlook the "casual locker-room misogyny" of Imus' show:

<...>

Or when Chris Matthews compares Hillary Clinton to a stripper and refers to her as an "uppity" woman. Or when he says she looks "witchy." Or when he regularly asserts that "Midwest guys" are "not up to modern women as president" -- an assertion which, given his other comments about Clinton, one can only assume is a classic case of projection.

Or when countless mainstream journalists dismissively refer to John Edwards as the "Breck Girl." Forget for a moment the propriety of journalists' repeating GOP talking points in order to derisively describe a Democratic presidential candidate. What do these journalists imply about women when they use "girl" as a pejorative description?

more

It's not just the right! The notion that people who appeared on his show approved of his "behavior," is hogwash. This is a show format that MSNBC willingly brought to the airwaves and advertisers willingly paid for. Iow, it was acceptable to give this show a venue until now, and what about the ones that are still on the air. Why aren't they gone?

[politicasista]

12. Exactly

The last thing Kerry needs to do is lose the AA support or the AA vote. He wouldn't have came close in 2004 and wouldn't be in DC if it weren't for that base of the Dem party.

[ProSense]

13. He's not running for president. The big debate now is

Snoop vs. Obama.


I seriously doubt Kerry is going to lose AA support over Imus being fired.

[politicasista]

16. He is running for Senate in MA though

Doesn't that matter too? He wouldn't be in DC without the AA (and others) support in MA. The problem is that he is a friend of Imus and that connection could be used against him.

Obama is picking up where the late Dr. C. Tucker left off. I never been a fan of gangsta rap or BET (I used to).

[ProSense]

18. I never said it doesn't matter, I said

I doubt he's going to lose support over Imus being fired. Obama appeared on Imus to promote his book, and since he is running for president, some in the AA community, especially the entertainment industry, may see that as hypocrisy now that he is lashing out at rappers.

I don't think everyone who is a friend of Imus is going to renounce their friendship over this. If anyone brings it up, I'm sure JK can handle it.

Do you think he should renounce his friendship and that people should hold that friendship against him?

[politicasista]

19. Yes, but Obama wasn't a "regular" like Kerry

I don't think that he should renounce it, but if it comes up, he is going to have to come up with some strong defense of himself and Imus, which may not be easy.

And Obama is going to have to do the same thing.

[ProSense]

20. You don't think he should renounce it,

so what makes you think others will ask him to? If you think Imus is a racist (and I don't), why would you think he should continue associating with a racist? If you don't think he is a racist, then JK should have no problem defending his friendship.

[politicasista]

21. Because it's on the record that he is friends with Imus

He has made some disparaging and offensive remarks about minorities, and it's against everything that Kerry stands for. I hope I am wrong (I don't know MA very well :shrug:) but that's where I think this may cost him some votes.

As the preacher that met with the Imus and the Rutgers basketball team asked, how can you live with yourself when you make a living picking on people?

And even though Obama appeared on the show, he wasn't a "regular" like Kerry was. Yes, I know Kerry was on there to reach an audience, but does the average voter, non-Imus watcher know that? Probably not, because they only see what's on the cable news.

[ProSense]

22. I don't put too much stock

in DeForest Soaries, and as a preacher, is he okay with it now that the team has accepted Imus' apology?

As you said, Imus' comments do run counter to everything Kerry stands for, so I don't see that they will impact him.

[politicasista]

23. I saw him on LKL and Inside Edition and I guess he was ok with it

He said the meeting lasted three hours, lots of talk, tears, and discussion.

I was guessing how the "progressives" and RNC could use the friendship with Imus against him. That's what I am afraid of. (And I don't know why. :shrug:)

[karynnj]

24. I think the word "friends" is likely stronger than reality

Their relationship was limited to the show and Kerry visiting the ranch one time. In addition, Teresa interviewed Deidre about good work she did which fit the topic Teresa was writing about.

My quess is that Kerry spent as much time with Jesse Helmes. In both cases, Kerry was working for the things he believed in.

Kerry has, to my knowlege, never in the nearly 4 decades his life has been an open book ever made racist or sexist jokes - if he did in private, I doubt Teresa would have been interested in him.

No one - except a few people on DU who always find a reason to attack Kerry - is going to really hang this on him. He can easily say the same thing Dodd did - it was a venue where he could get his positions out.

[karynnj]

25. I think friend might be too strong a word,

but I think the blacks in MA likely do not think their 4 term Senator a racist.

Wouldn't they be more likely to see Kerry as the man who led the fight to keep the African math teacher from being deported because of a mistake? Kids from his classes went to DC and with Kerry's people worked to convince others to pass something to let him stay.

or

Wouldn't they more likely see him as the smiling guy in the leather jacket who marched with John Lewis in Boston - memorialized in Tay Tay's excellent photo?

0r

Wouldn't they see the passed values in Vanessa Kerry's long term friendship with the poor black woman murdered at same spot her brother had been murdered at a few years before. Where the Boston Herald reported that the Senator and a friend paid the funeral costs.

or

That he has worked hard on the Small business committee to help blacks succeed.

or

If needed, don't the comments of the black member of his crew - speaking of how Kerry came to speak to him after each battle to make sure he was dealing with it.

Imus will be old news in a month. Kerry was not even there when the comment was made. If he were and said nothing, that would be a story - but this seems far fetched. Also, who is going to push it - Imus had at least 2 Boston hate radio people on more than he had Kerry on.

[politicasista]

26. Good questions,

Too bad Kerry gets dumped on for "supporting" Imus over "8 innocent black women" (that's a joke!) :argh:

I actually wouldn't mind if Kerry met with them privately either, though I know he's not a grandstander.

I do agree with your post.

[karynnj]

29. The person posting that ad nauseum is a troll as far as Kerry is concerned

She never has a good word to say.

[wisteria]

6. I saw fox news reporting on this through their "grapevine" segment with

Britt Humms, two days ago. Then I noticed the one you just referenced.

Yes, disingenuous is right and to suggest that appearances on programs where the humor gets colorful and sometimes steps over the bounds, make you an accessory and an appeaser is beyond stunning. So, guests on Imus are guilty of what Imus has been accused of by distant association?
Amazing how this has turned into a RW platform.