This group is such a relief

[GRLMGC]

I don't even like to see Kerry threads on the other forums because I KNOW people are gonna get nasty. I am happy this group is here.

[New Earth]

1. me too

i can't take it. i'm so tired of hearing people who voted for him just completely turning against him and having no faith in him whatsoever.

[seito]

2. I do not understand the Kerry bashers

I believe in John Kerry, more than I have ever believed in any Presidential candidate. I have felt disappointment when a candidate I supported lost an election, but never like this. Many bloggers contend that Kerry supporters were voting for anybody but Bush...I say proudly that I support John Kerry, and he will have my support again, on one condition.

President Kerry, I need for you to show the American people the fire that you showed as a young man. Show us that you really are fighting to ensure our right to vote and that those voters that stood in the rain for 10 hours to support you had their vote counted. Show us that you will not rest until the American people have faith in the electoral system. Prove to us that you will not rubber stamp the Bush agenda, or let them secretly pass legislation that will harm our Democracy. Lead us in a massive effort to take back our Democracy.

Once the fix was in, I believe that President Kerry weighed the options and chose to fight this fight another day. That day may be in the very near future, or it may have to be through future indictments. By choosing to fight another day, he has the element of surprise, and perhaps some hard facts to back the allegations.

I do not fault him for the decision that he has made. If he regains the trust of his base, assures us that he has not stopped the fight, we will be a force to reckon with in the next few moths/years.

[Siyahamba]

27. If Kerry had been declared the winner

I'm sure most of his DU detractors would be saying they supported him from the start.

[JI7]

3. it has always been this way on DU

DU has always been very anti Kerry. during the primary campaign and even after he became the party nominee.

i just try to ignore most of it now.

[New Earth]

4. sorry i just don't get it

i don't see what there is NOT to like about him.

[GRLMGC]

5. Well

He's not perfect. I don't agree all of his positions and I can see how people can view him as cold. However, the more I learn about him, the more respect I have for him. I think the attacks are really uncalled for. Sure, he made mistakes but hindsight is 20/20. There is no way he could have gone through the campaign w/o making mistakes.

[LittleClarkie]

12. And he'll have learned from them. Why start over

with someone having to re-invent the wheel. Why not pick someone who's already been in a national campaign.

Kerry is an aquired taste. It took me a while too, but I'm fully in his camp now.

[Forever Free]

19. I totally agree with you

During the primaries and after Super Tuesday, it took a long long time to warm up to John Kerry. I supported him mainly because he was the presumptive nominee. But I really came to respect and admire the man after his convention speech and ESPECIALLY after his outstanding debate performances.

For the first time, I could see John Kerry as a person, as the man. It really touched me because I began to believe in him. He truly has the character and knowledge to be Commander-in-Chief. His speeches in the final days of the campaign inspired such great hope and optimism in me. In a way, I feel very connected to him as a person. He has always been an underrated candidate, always underestimated. And everytime he has beaten the odds and the expectations.

[GRLMGC]

20. I know

I think that he will have learned from his mistakes, too. I know this was the most important election I've ever seen but he had way too much to overcome. He's only human. I doubt anybody here could have done any better. He had to put up with so much. Seeing the attacks against him, I'm pretty sure most people would have folded.

[JI7]

6. it's mostly people who supported other candidates during the primary

many on DU never got over the primaries. this was seen even after Kerry became the presumed nominee.

[JohnKleeb]

7. thats right

[vinessa4freedom]

9. I think a lot of people

feel shock and grief over the election, too. People don't understand the early concession. Others feel like the whole country let them down, and John Kerry is the scapegoat. I'm not trying to justify their behavior-it pisses me off, too. I'm just trying to make sense of it. I don't get it- John Kerry loves us-sometimes more than we deserve. He stands by us no matter what. He has my complete loyalty, and I hate to fight, but I'll defend him every time.

[JohnKleeb]

10. Ive been getting myself in fights doing it

perhaps it was wrong of me to call it fair weathered crap, but I don't get it, many of those same people who flame Kerry for conceding and wanting to run again have no problem with Gore running again, I dont know what happened in Ohio but its very hard to prove fraud IMO when youre down by 1-3% rather than a handful of votes as was case in Florida four years ago, so we have two sad alternatives, either people really were that stupid and supported Bush or they stole it again. I guess fickle would have been a better word. I am tired of puriism getting in the way of common sense, I think we eat our own here way too much.

[LittleClarkie]

11. One consolation

I don't think DU is representative of alot of Dem voters. I haven't run into nearly the anger at Kerry that I have here.

I don't get the "damaged goods" attitude either. That's only true if you make it true. The opposite could just as easily be true. Anything can happen.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Oh yeah I know

We were discussing it while working on something for a club the other day after school, and a friend of mine brought up that Kerry may run again in '08 and I guess I showed I was receptive to the idea, and no one was like "I would never support him" My journalism teacher isn't upset with Kerry at all in fact she really has come to like him.

[LittleClarkie]

14. Mostly around me at church and work it's been "Whatcha gonna do"

They see it as a no-win situation for him if it's not provable. But several have no doubt the thing was stolen, and these are nice suburban housewives and working stiffs too. One guy called Bush "Hitler." I never expected to hear that come out of the mouth of the average Joe, just the political types.

I hope so. I really do want him for prez. I started crying again tonight, just after leaving the pub. Everyone was meeting old classmates there because everyone was back in town for Turkey Day. It's something of a tradtion at this pub. Anyway, I felt like I was living on another planet. It's tough knowing what not that many people know. I feel like a guardian of truth or something, as overly romantic as that sounds.

Saw a cartoon from election day, of the planet Earth watch the returns and looking dismayed that had the same danged effect. Geez, I wish I could get a grip.

[vinessa4freedom]

15. I know exactly what you mean

It's like the entire body of people in my life are in denial. Even the dems I know are thinking "there's no way it can be that bad." Having the drawback of knowing me, they want to believe it's opinion, and not hardcore fact. We need a credible insider. A deepthroat, really, who has been on the inside, and will come forward with the ungliness of it all. It would jar people out of the denial.
A diebold senior programmer, maybe?

LittleClarkie-don't get a grip. You voted correctly (and so did the majority of Americans) The fraud will be exposed. Hang in there.

[seito]

18. LittleClarkie

Thanks for all your posts. They inspire. I agree, you do not need to get a grip. Sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode between all of the blame and speculation, doomsday theories etc.

You just have to believe that good will prevail, and it may come down to "We the people." We will not let our Democracy be taken, and I believe that John Kerry will lead in this fight whether or not he is inaugurated on Jan 20th.

[XanaDUer]

31. It is crap.

You're calling it correctly, John.

[JohnKleeb]

32. That it is

It's ironic to me that many of the people who despise Kerry or rather only saw him as an ABB candidiate seem to like Al Gore a lot, I like Al too but facts are that Kerry is to Gore's left and this is actually part of why Gore picked Lieberman over him in 2000 as his running mate, and Gore's hawkishness as senator is why Clinton partially picked Gore over Kerry. Just sayin, thats an irony to me. It is all about rhetoric to some people, me? I like a strong background, and actions that match words, Kerry had that to me.

[JohnKleeb]

8. neither do I

[Withywindle]

16. Greetings from a pro-Kerry n00b

Hi all, I'm new. :hi:

Been lurking for a while, though. The Kerry bashing gives me a sick feeling. Isn't the situation bad enough without turning on our own? Kerry's a very good man with a mostly great record, and I would've been proud to call him President (and who knows, I still might be someday). Imagine how it looks to outsiders to see people within our own party saying such vile things about him right after the election is over. It makes it look like that "flip-flop" charge was true after all--but not about him, about US! It makes us look unprincipled, IMO. How are we supposed to persuade other people to believe in our candidates when it looks like there are so many on our side who never did?

Not that I'm advocating censoring anybody, and I know there's a lot of anger firing in all directions right now, but damn! Does it have to be so much like herding hissy cats all the time?

[vinessa4freedom]

17. Hi there!

welcome from one newbie to another!

:hi:

When John Kerry is president (I'm still holding out for this January)
the tune will change.

[JohnKleeb]

21. heya

I know what youre saying. I believe one of the problems with the party in a whole sense is that we are willing to eat our own too easily, maybe people are frustrated but for christ sakes, some of the things said about Kerry are utter crap.

[vinessa4freedom]

22. 'morning JohnKleeb

I agree with you. (And yes, many people in my life have called me "PollyAnna" and they were not being complimentary). Although I try to justify why people do what they do, I've taken so much crap about John Kerry. Some people just don't get it. They are obnoxious and come up with untrue statements that people buy into, and it seems so unfair.

Then I remember that all of the important people, the really amazing ones that changed history and eventually the mindset of enormous groups of people, have all come under similar scrutiny. I get the feeling about John Kerry, that he is such a person. I can't stand to see him misrepresented and I do sometimes get in people's faces when it's really off the wall. People get scared for all kinds of reasons, and fear is at the heart of all prejudice. Maybe for a lot of Dems the fear is that we will get our hopes up and not succeed. But there I go again... You're right. It sucks.

[JohnKleeb]

28. Kerry to me is an engima in his own party even

He's hard to understand but once you understand him, I think you realize what he is.

[LittleClarkie]

29. I wonder why both sides are continually looking for ulterior motives

A lot of people don't take him at face value for some reason. All the way back to 1971, he was called a phony who was only out for political gain.

I wonder why he gets a bum rap a lot of the time. Do we not know what a smart honest man looks like anymore? I'll grant you, he's a rarity: a preppy veteran. I guess we don't know what one of those looks like either.

Even more rare back in 1971: a hippy, preppy veteran.

It just seems people have trouble "gettting" John Kerry. I wish more people did, though. Either you love him or you hate him, apparently.

I could slap the guy over at the New Republic for saying that "no one likes John Kerry." What are we, chopped liver?

[vinessa4freedom]

30. Isn't it funny how people change

their tunes. John Kerry still has great things to do. And we will be able to say we've been with him right along.

Don't forget- a hippy, preppy, biker veteran.:)

[JohnKleeb]

34. what guy at TNR said that

I like John Kerry better than all the nominees we've had in my life. Once one gets John Kerry I think, they should like him, this is a guy who is a supporter of liberal values, he's often in Kennedy's shadow up there but Kerry has more in common with Kennedy than most think.

[Withywindle]

23. The weight of history...

Maybe the most upsetting thing is people acting like this "defeat" (which may not have really been) was some kind of humiliating landslide, and Kerry ought to slink away into oblivion so we don't have to look at him anymore and be reminded of it. It's like they're infected by the media meme that gives Bush his "mandate." Well, I remember the 80s and the Mondale and Dukakis campaigns -- THOSE were humiliating landslides. This was not, not by a long stretch.

Some people say Bush is such a horrible candidate that their dogs should have been able to beat him easily, and blame Kerry for piddling away a race that was his to lose. But that's certainly not how Bush's supporters think! To them, Bush IS a charismatic, strong leader--an incumbent in wartime, with a cult of personality he's had years to build. We should have realized it was going to be very difficult.


It's not productive to blame our guy for not being a charismatic Southerner, or confrontational enough, or clear enough, or whatever people think the magic formula would have been. Learning from mistakes is useful. Beating up on all our contenders because they're not Saint Clinton (who was helped by Perot more than some people want to remember) is not. Just IMO.

I know I'm kinda preaching to the choir here. But I want to get this off my chest somewhere safe lest I get into a flame war my second day. :P

[vinessa4freedom]

24. what charisma

I just don't get it. OK- so I hate the guy, but I don't get what his hold on people is. I've compared him to Hitler so many times, but Hitler, while just as evil, had charisma-W doesn't. Hitler was also intelligent, and well Mr. Nookular couldn't pass for a flunkie. I don't get how people can be so taken with such a wash-out.

Take 'em on, and don't worry about the wars, Withywindle. You have the distinct advantage here- you're correct.

[New Earth]

25. you know what i don't get? when people say Kerry lacked charisma

why, because he didn't crack jokes at every opportunity? he doesn't claim to be an entertainer, he's a leader and politician.. I think he is flowing with charisma - the best word to sum him up is 'intriguing'.

[vinessa4freedom]

26. hi Faye

I don't get that either. I think John Kerry has charisma. He also has everything W doesn't. Intelligence, humor (the witty kind, not the duhuh kind), compassion, class. People who can say W's got charisma and John Kerry doesn't have been zoning out to FOX just a bit too long.

[bunny planet]

42. Totally agree, John Kerry has charisma is spades. You just have to see

him in person, it does not come across so much on TV. I've loved him ever since I saw him speak at a rally against the Vietnam war when I was a teenager. He was awesome then, and principled, and he's awesome now.

[GRLMGC]

33. Thank you!

I see Bush supporters and I know that they're hopeless. It's not Kerry's fault that they're too blind to see the realities of life under Bush II. He did his best. You swear campaigning is soooo easy. I can understand your frustration. I feel it all the time too but I don't feel like getting into flame wars with stubborn people.

[sandnsea]

35. Not only that

But maybe we should have realized the inch deep support among some Democrats as well. I think it really did matter that Democrats repeated the Rove spin as much as the right did. How could we expect those confused voters who barely pay attention to go Kerry when they're hearing right wing spin from our own Democrats. We can talk about the Bushies being stupid all we want, but when our own Democrats can't figure out reality from spin, well....

[JohnKleeb]

36. you have a point

I agree.

[WildEyedLiberal]

39. Awesome post! Welcome to DU!

:hi:

I guess Kerry is a bit of an acquired taste, but as in all other aspects of my life, I find that the acquired tastes are almost always the richest and most enjoyable of all. Something that requires cultivation and time to fully appreciate, rather than something that instantly gratifies. I liked Howard Dean in the primaries because his anti-war statements appealed to my immediate gut reaction assesments; however, upon study, reflection, and digging through the details of his life and career, I came to like, and then love, and then adore, John Kerry. Now I can't imagine how I couldn't love him - he stands for everything I believe in, and has lived a life dedicated to the betterment of America and the world.

[Withywindle]

40. Thank you!

And I'm with you - I liked Dean too. I liked almost all the primary candidates. They all had strengths and weaknesses (Confession: in the primary vote, when it came down to it in the voting booth, I cast a Hail Mary vote for Kucinich. My state doesn't matter a whit, it was all decided. We all already knew it was going to be Kerry and I was fine with that but I wanted to give Kucinich some props to help validate his ideas and his message.)

The more I learned about Kerry, the more I liked him. He really won my heart by the time of the debates. With five days to go, I got to hear him speak at the huge rally in Madison, and will never forget him getting a lot more Beatlemania screaming from the crowd than Springsteen did. Maybe his charisma didn't come across on TV, but it sure was there in person, and I refuse to believe that those people were ONLY ABB, no warm feelings for Kerry at all.

I think you're totally right about the acquired-taste factor. Like a thick book with complex allusions and images that takes a long time and lots of close attention to really get, but is extremely rewarding and will haunt you for the rest of the your life.

[VTdem]

37. All the fools better start liking him now

cuz hes gonna be our party's leader for the next 4 years until he runs again. And i wouldnt want it any other way.

[vinessa4freedom]

38. YES!!

You go VTdem!! I'll be the first in line to hit the pavement for him again.

[bunny planet]

41. I feel so silly, I just discovered this forum now. Thank goodness, I feel

like I'm home!;)