I think we're in for some fireworks: JK v.s the guest host on Ed

[ginnyinWI]

Schultz's program. Her name is Tammy something and she's connected with MSNBC and Newsweek. She's 40 min. into the show and already has spoken to Wolfson and then Hitchens. In my opinion she's slanted toward HRC. JK's going to be on the show later speaking for Obama, and it's probably gonna be good!

:popcorn:

[TayTay]

1. Ginny, thanks!

You are a love and a half.

Appreciate this.

[ginnyinWI]

2. so far she's getting worse and worse

She had Hitchens on for like a half hour, and hung on his every word and even fed him anti-Obama slams for him to agree with. And she and he both ignorantly stated repeatedly that Obama has never repudiated Rev. Wright, which isn't true.

I would have turned this show off by now, except that I'm waiting for JK to be on. My next post will be an email to the show itself. :mad:

[MarjorieG]

3. People don't remember we are an insurgent campaign.

Going against the Clinton machine and corporate America, who don't want this. Am I paranoid, a worry wart, reflecting the negativity drowning out the message, when I sense a Clinton control of the arguments, Ohio win as be all? Obama losing momentum (was the Aol.com poll for him), all coming into PA, which people don't realize exactly how stacked against him, with that same machine and all those endorsements?

I know he's one cool individual, like the General said, 'no drama Obama,' so when can the temperament argument be made enough to stick.

How will he ever nicely confirm her overstatements in those two debates? Will she agree to the second?

Please let us know how it went. I can't download these shows in under 6 hrs.

[ginnyinWI]

5. Shrum is going to be on next. I'll try to do a play by play :-)

You are correct about the MSM. What a difference from Ed Schultz who always tries to see both sides of a topic or question. She isn't taking many calls either. The very idea that she's only talking about Wright is already anti-Obama.

ok Shrum's up:

The controversy is very unfair. Trying to pin Obama as the black candidate is not how he has wanted to run or has run. It's like Swiftboating. He doesn't want to focus on race. He's a Catholic himself, and isn't responsible for every Catholic who does wrong. Several cable outlets have decided it's time to move against Obama.

She says but Wright was such an inspiration to Obama. Shrum says I was inspired by Pope John Paul but didn't agree with everything he said. Dangerous to get religious leaders involved. Brings up Hagee. Not in Obama's interest to have a long dialog about this.

Clintons have done many race-themed attacks, he says.

(going to a break)

[ginnyinWI]

6. Shrum pt 2

Ferraro is subject.
Shrum: she went way over the line. Bad for the Dem party. We could lose the election because of stuff like this.

Tammy switches subject back to Obama.
Shrum: Obama can't do much more than say he disagrees with Rev. Wright. She is skeptical that he can say enough to fix it.
Shrum: just repeat it over and over and then try to get back to the issues. If they believe Clinton on Ferraro, they have to believe Obama on Wright. Obama is one of the most powerful candidates we've had in a long time. They are trying to ghetto-ise him. Race is the most incendiary topic in this country.
Obama is trying to get us beyond this. Says the Clintons should stick to the issues.

[MarjorieG]

4. Day after Keith's rant, everyone was very respectful to Clinton

A pattern?

[ginnyinWI]

7. JK is up:

She asks about the Fair Share Act:

JK: KBR created a fake corporate entity to avoid paying Medicare, etc. for employees. We will introduce legislation to make it illegal. Not trying to tax them unfairly, but a phony company--taking profits--

She asks about the meeting between HRC and Obama:
JK: Obama said he was interested in waging this campaign at a higher level. Talked with HRC about it.

She asks about Wright:
JK: He's addressed it. Everyone understands this pastor is in retirement. Those raised in the 40s-60s had a particular type of rhetoric then. Anyone in his 70s that went through that has some scars. Obama is completely separated from that. While not wanting to disown the experience, he's coming from a different place in his life. Americans need to see the difference. American electorate if given the facts reach the right conclusions.

She asks about two more debates. How do they do all this?
JK: You do it because you want to be President. You draw energy from the people. It's not hard to go out and fight for what you believe in. I enjoyed a lot of it. Hard part is the travel, late nights, bad food. Meeting people is exciting and fun--invigorating. Obama has the ability to bring people together. He's qualified to be commander in chief. You aren't choosing years spent, you are choosing judgement. He has better chance to win in swing states. I think that's very important.

She asks about Iraq:
JK: Iraq has not changed. Slightly more secure, not hard to win a tactical victory, but the question is will the Iraqis step up and provide stability. We need to force them to do it--set a date, so they won't game it forever. They are using us as cover to play their games for power.

(wow that's the first time I tried this--didn't know I could type that fast!)

[Luftmensch067]

8. OMG, she was a total FANGIRL!

LOL!!!

Tried to record, but came in late. But it was at the very top of the third hour (right, Ginny?) so I may try to catch a later timezone!

Edited to add: great summary, Ginny, and thanks for the heads up, too!

She was remembering JK in IA and how much they loved and cheered him there. It was nice. :-)

[ginnyinWI]

9. that's right--top of the third hour.

She wasn't able to get much anti-Obama snark in, I noticed. He owned the segment. :bounce:

[MarjorieG]

10. Great surrogates to offset her Clinton mission. Just not enough of the time

[ginnyinWI]

11. from a few of her comments earlier,

I'd say she is one of the we've-got-to-have-our-first-woman-president types. Looking for reasons that Obama is fatally flawed, destroyed by the media so that HRC can be the last one standing.

Shrum and Kerry both gave very reasonable and compelling arguments why this is not the end of Obama.


OMG now she's got DeeDee Myers on. She has a new book-- :boring:

[beachmom]

12. Am I the only weirdo who thinks we should simply pick the best candidate, regardless

of race, gender, religion, background, etc.? I just can't get into identity politics at all. Honestly, I just like Obama for who he is as a person. I couldn't care less that he is African American (and REALLY: when is anyone going to point out he is half white, and was raised by a white mother and white grandparents?) -- that is a novelty that has worn off, when you get down to the nitty gritty of who the person is.

I am currently very depressed with the Dem Party. It is clear that it is true that it is a party made up of a hodge podge of interests groups and identity groups (great segment during the Dem convention in '04 on The Daily Show on this. They really hit it on the nail). And everyone goes in each corner for "their group". Are they gay? Are they women? Are they African American or Latinos? Are they an environmentalist? Are they in a union? I just can't get into that at all. And frankly, it is totally divisive. We're literally in a war of Black vs. Women. Please, make me barf a lung, who gives a shit? I joined the Dem Party for its values of working for the common good, a sane foreign policy, and a moderate economic approach. If it's just about which group can jockey for the most power while screaming they're the biggest victim, then count me out.

ALL of this having nothing to do with my problems with the Clintons' lack of core moral principles or decency. The fact that she is a woman is so small compared to her campaign's dishonorable conduct and unending lies and smears. She is a human being who reminds me of another human being currently in the WH. They belong to a group of people called SHAMELESS unscrupulous politicians. That's it.

[ginnyinWI]

13. I resent it too

All the more because they always say, "all older women want HRC to win". What they conveniently leave out is that older, college-educated women, a demographic of which I am a part, actually favor Obama. But I guess that's too nuanced for the MSM.

You know what just occurred to me because of what JK said about Wright being from a certain generation that uses certain words and comes from a particular place? Geraldine Ferraro is the same age as Rev. Wright--both of them in their early 70s. So doubtless each one is informed by their own generation's struggles with race and gender respectively. It helps to explain the ferocity coming from each of them.

But we have to move on as a country and begin to see these things in less divisive terms. Obama has dedicated himself to this; we can only hope HRC isn't too old to get with the new view. I don't know where the age divide is on First Wave v.s. Second Wave Feminism. All I know is I'm 56 (today's my b-day, this is the first time I've said it--yikes!) and I don't feel particularly attached to it.

[karynnj]

14. Happy birthday!

I love yours and Beachmom's posts - and agree with both. This thread was cool to read - as I read down I was worried if she would be as nasty as Contessa Brewster was yesterday - it was so cool to get to the Fangirl post.

[ginnyinWI]

17. thanks. n/t

[beachmom]

15. Happy Birthday, GinnyinWI! Didn't Oprah say the fifties totally rock?

Thank you for that piece of data -- that college educated white women voted Obama. Is that true pretty much across the board? That Obama has won the college educated white women vote? Perhaps maybe just over 65 went to Hillary? You know, that may favor Obama going into the G.E. I am wondering out loud if Independent and Moderate Republican white women are largely college educated. Because those two groups are poised to jump off the Republican train especially with the economy tanking. I do have one anecdotal data point: my Mom said she would vote Hillary if she wins fair and square, but if she cheats to get the nomination (like the Supers overriding the voters), then my Mom said she would vote McCain. My Mom doesn't have a college degree but she pays attention and knows what is going on.

[ginnyinWI]

19. I'm not sure about the age groups.

I seem to remember something about women 60+ though. I just had Tweety on for a few min and he and Chuck Todd were talking about the non-college educated women vote. So somebody gets it.

My theory is that college educated women know they have accomplished something, and have less need for another woman to fulfill them by proxy. As long as they are younger and missed that first militant wave of feminism. They are free to choose a candidate based on other reasons.

My guess is that there are more Democrats among college-educated women than the other two groups--but this is a change election, so there is that to factor in, too. Everybody knows what failures the Repubs have wrought. Maybe a college educated woman is less likely to be scared into remaining with a Republican candidate for fear of terrorists or what have you.

Then there's yet another thing to factor in: hidden or outright racism among older people and the non-college educated. It's really a mixed bag, isn't it.

[fedupinBushcountry]

16. I resent it too

This 57 year old (beat ya, lol) votes with her heart and gut, and HRC is not someone I trust nor do I like how she is using her womanhood to look as a victim. I'm sure you remember growing up in the era of "male chauvinist pig", well I had 3 brothers and I showed them a thing or two on equal rights (lol), they come to me to do all their little stuff, like iron my shirt, make my bed, etc., then I would look at them and say who the hell do you think I am (oh and the look I gave them, lol), I'm your sister not your maid. Funny thing is they all know how to fend for themselves now when their wives are out of town etc. That was my mark on feminism and you know I never had to play victim, I just played as an equal.

Have a great birthday. :party: :toast: :party:

[Luftmensch067]

18. Happy Birthday, Ginny! And here's a link to the interview for your present!

A better file may be forthcoming (sorry, there's a tiny machine noise in this one!) but here it is for those who must hear it NOW!

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1C9WNW0H

[ginnyinWI]

20. thanks! This completes the thread. :-)

[MBS]

22. thanks! I was able to download it this time .

JK was great. And I LOVED her description of JK in Iowa ("You OWNED that place"-- YES!!!). A lovely way to end the regular work week (more work in store, but, never mind, at least I'll try to relax tonight . :( )

[Inuca]

23. Happy birthday Ginny!

You are a few months younger than me :-), so I am another example of college educated older woman that is VERY far from crazy about Hillary. And as Karyn already said, I also 100% agree with what both you and beachmom said above, perfectly put. By the way beachmom, weren't you supposed to take a break from all this :-)? Glad it was a short one!

[ginnyinWI]

26. glad to hear I'm still younger than somebody...

I'm feeling pretty ancient! To me, it's like college-educated women are less likely to look up to HRC, to treat her as more of a peer, and because of that, can see her "games". I was trying to explain it this way to my daughter who, while college educated (at last!) doesn't see what's so bad about HRC. (but she still prefers Obama I hasten to add!)

It's not that she's so bad--it's just that she's so "old politics" meaning dishonest, insincere dealings with the public and a willingness to take the low road if it means winning. I thought our generation was going to do away with all of that. Only some of us really took it to heart.

[TayTay]

24. Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!

Have a wonderful time.

This is a great thread. I actually missed the call. But I don't feel like I did, thanks to the excellent commentary in this thread. Thanks!

[ginnyinWI]

27. you're welcome, Tay

I can't count how many times you've filled us all in on JK's comings and goings which I otherwise would have missed entirely. :pals:

[MBS]

21. nope, you're not alone!

Yes, to every single word!

[ladym55]

25. Hear, hear!!

Very well said. :applause:

I am supposedly Hillary's demographic--an older white woman who REMEMBERS WELL what it was like for women a generation ago.

However, I want a LEADER with a moral compass. I want to vote for someone who stands for something. Hillary has never been my first choice. I'm too progressive in my views to be that excited about her. And she lost me completely during the Ohio primary when she went negative.

[WildEyedLiberal]

28. I agree 1000000000%

I was going to quote some specific lines you wrote that really hit home for me but then I realized I'd have to highlight the whole post. You nailed it.