Okay, Massachusetts. You have a problem.

[beachmom]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html

Massachusetts: McCain vs. Clinton SurveyUSA McCain 42, Clinton 55, Und 3 Clinton+13
Massachusetts: McCain vs. Obama SurveyUSA McCain 47, Obama 47, Und 6 Tie

Inexplicable. The state that hates Bush so much, that is so against the Iraq War is flirting with MCCAIN if Obama gets the nomination? No offense, Massholes, but you're FULL of it!!

And I see that Sen. Kerry remains as popular in Mass. as Webb is in Virginia:

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=f80c3086-a31c-4c4e-be43-a18e7f73e379

47% Approve 45% Disapprove 8% Not Sure

I mean, I'm not sitting here in Georgia (or even before in Virginia) boasting about my state. Georgia blows big time when it comes to politics. But it seems to me that Mass. has decided that all black guys are the same; they don't like Deval Patrick, so that means they don't like any black politicians. I think we are seeing some ugly, ugly aspects of Massachusetts. A state representing only Dems is considering voting for John "let's stay in Iraq for 100 years" McCain, so that they don't have to vote for the black guy. And yes, that is how it looks to me. That or sour grapes from liberal white women pissed off that their gal won't be the nominee. I just hope that Kerry doesn't have trouble getting re-elected in this toxic environment.

Flame away and tell me I'm off base. But 43% of white Democrats in GA voted for Obama in the primary; our numbers may be small, but we don't seem to have the problems white Democrats in Mass. have.

[Blaukraut]

1. No flames from me

As a Masshole, I am ashamed that my fellow Mass. residents seem to need their heads examined. I can't even begin to understand why McCain would tie Obama in the polls here unless the Wright business has aroused the latent racism in our fairly white state. If that is the case, it's sad.
As to JK's approval ratings - they should go up soon. He has been in-state a lot, visiting towns, meeting with officials and constituents alike. It could be that the poll still reflects the anger about his Obama endorsement. He's been really good about making his case about that, though.

[beachmom]

2. It's the Wright business in part, but I think I remember hearing about

McCain polling close to Obama in Mass. before. The theories I have most heard is that Massachusetts people equate Patrick with Obama. And, as I said, we shouldn't discount The Angry Older White Female.

[Blaukraut]

3. makes sense

People have been pretty disappointed in Patrick so far, and the Angry Older White Female could definitely be a factor. That said, though, I highly doubt McCain would beat Obama in Mass. in the GE when it comes down to it.

[karynnj]

4. The thing that doesn't make sense if it's the angry older white women

is that Kennedy is so much higher. Unless they consider that Kennedy was innocent and led astray by the evil Senator Kerry.

Could it be the lack of coverage of the things he's done in the Boston Globe. (I still can't believe that they pretty much ignored his trip to Bali.)

[JI7]

5. it could be that they view Kerry as more associated by the recent

culture they are so fearful of. while Kennedy brings home the bacon, or at least gets credit for it when he does while Kerry's name is often left out.

the good news is that we do have a lot about McCain to use against him. if only we can get this Primary over with. it should have ended some time ago. if the numbers were the other way around most of the party would have pressured Obama to end the race.

[TayTay]

6. LOL, calm down. We are indecipherable. "That way madness lies."

There are shrinks all over who make a good living trying to diagnose Mass residents and figure out why they are so politically bi-polar.

Massachusetts was always Clinton Country. Then-President Clinton vacationed here and visited often. He got his highest margin of victory in '96 in Mass, not Arkansas. People here knew and liked the Clintons and when they were asked in March '07 to support HRC they did. Overwhelmingly. People feel a connection to the Clintons and wish them well. They are now being loyal to their choice for President because that campaign is still ongoing. That is a side of loyalty. (Yes, there is JK loyalty. But, his campaign is not in jeopardy at this time.)

Mass souls don't know Barack Obama as well. They are expressing doubt about him and a negativity toward him because he is not yet the nominee. The campaign is still ongoing and people are backing their choice for Pres. Things will change after the nominee is chosen, in all the campaigns up and down the ticket.

Ah, the motto of Massachusetts is: "By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty." Yeah, it's like that. We are seeking peace right now, honest.

[beachmom]

7. Well, it only gives the Republicans comfort. I guarantee you if I

was polled I would say I was voting for Obama or Clinton. And didn't Mass. vote for Reagan?

[TayTay]

9. Yes. But, ahm, it's complicated.

Okay, not for nothing, but here goes. Massachusetts is in a state of perpetual civil war, self-doubt, under siege and pissed off. It's what gives us our 'wicked chahm." We are a fiercely loyal people. Once we take you in we expect it to be for life. Occasionally head-exploding moments happen when our loyalties are no longer so easy to figure out. (Clear the room when this happens, there's about to be a 'wicked fight.") This is one of those times. (Non-combatants are advised to go someplace else during this time period. Someplace where nobody knows nothing and you can just be left alone, like ahm, Florida. No offense to Florida, we love you and visit every March cuz the Red Sox have Spring Training there. But you do know what we mean.)

Brief interlude: Dec '06. Many, many DU JK folks visit Boston to hang out and have a Senatorial moment. The local entertainment is provided by the Old South Church which is having a re-enactment of the Boston Tea Party. Except it doesn't recreate the actual tossing of the tea, cuz any state or city in America could do that and it is wicked boring. We recreate the damn argument that led to those colonials getting all wicked pissed off in the first place. Those patriots decided that those friggin bastids in London were not fit to lick dust off our pointy shoes and they could take their friggin tea and put it where the sun don't shine, honey. Out-of-towners remark that even the Boston school children attending this reenactment are 'getting into it.' Yup. Arguing is in our blood, we are born this way. (Nature and nurture, honest.)

Okay, back on topic. Massachusetts generally believes that torturing our politicians is a fine way to make sure they are fit to hold federal office. (There is not enough time to get into state politics and it defies explanation anyway.) We do this by "putting them through the ringer" at every possible moment and making sure they are not getting above themselves. Our national pols must be wicked smart, courageous, hue to a certain progressive line and be humble and funny. (Funny is a requirement for holding federal office. People who are merely wicked smart get legislative aide jobs or work for think tanks. Cheesus, you think I want to listen to some guy drone on and on about some topic without cracking a few self-dreprecating jokes to break the monotony. Cripes, that's what Harvard is for, so the stuffed shirts have some place to hang out and not annoy regular people.)

Hillary Clinton came in and asked for support back in March of '07. She came over, reminded people that she and her husband had been wicked nice to us during their 8 years in the Presidency and had even dropped some money on us when they vacationed on the Cape. So, what, we are supposed to forget all that and go for this new guy who we don't know yet? I mean, yeah, he went to Harvard Law School, but that doesn't count as being in Massachusetts. (He pronounces the name of the state funny too. It's not Mass-a-too-setts Barack. Gawd, do you pronounce Worcester as Wor-ces-ter instead of Wooster too?) We might grow to like him, but, we don't know yet. You know, "marry in haste, repent in leisure." We are not ready to marry him yet, we are still standing back and evaluating. (Again, I told you, loyalty is for life unless some friggin bastid steps over the line and way, way pisses you off. Then you get betrayed. Hell hath no fury like a Mass-soul betrayed.)

As for Deval Patrick and the "Mass is kind of not okay with voting for black people." Ah, last time I checked Barack Obama scored his lowest percentage of AA votes in Mass. The AA vote in MA was not even close to what he has been getting nationally. Maybe we ought to figure out why. Maybe the AA community never spoke up for Barack in MA cuz they might be feeling a wee bit left out right now. It is possible that other MA pols have 'forgotten" them and not done anything to indicate that these voters are valued. That just might be a factor in play here. So, given this loyalty thing we have going on here, this guy that you think is taking you for granted comes by and asks you to vote for his friend and basically says this guy is a lot like me. Do you believe him or grumble under your breath that this is exactly what you are worried about, that your friend is just like you. That is a legitimate thing, in my book.

Now, you'll excuse me. My husband just noticed that Dish Network has taken NESN, the Red Sox and Bruins channel off the network. I have to find a Senator who understands that this is so upsetting we might all friggin explode. (And we love the Senitah who understands that not getting Pats or Sawx games is like depriving a person of food or oxygen.)

[beachmom]

11. Love it!! Ha, ha! Fantastic, Tay. Maybe I'll like y'all Yankees in Mass. again sometime soon. :)

My Mom's side of the family do hail from Mass. so your tribe isn't totally foreign to me. And, yes, my Mom's family isn't much unlike Obama's grandmother (well, probably worse), if you hear what I am saying, so that is where my suspicions started on how Mass. folks feel about African Americans, even if the Abolition Movement hailed from Mass. So, okay, excellent pointing out Mass. AA's lack of enthusiasm due to Patrick's failures. I think Obama's riveting speech on race this past week had to please everyone in Mass.: it was about speaking frankly and honestly and getting out a few uncomfortable truths. That strikes me as something Mass. folks like to hear. I can imagine the AA community in Mass. heard someone who will NOT take them for granted, or throw under the bus, when the going gets tough.

Why doesn't Deval Patrick get his shit together? (rhetorical question) That or Obama needs to do something grand, but I am not sure he can do that for Mass. folks anytime soon, since he needs to win states like Virginia.

But keep your ear to the ground, and tell me if any of the coolness on Obama is beginning to thaw. Oh, and I saw Obama in person -- he is VERY, VERY funny, charming, and witty.

[TayTay]

13. Seriously, these are good questions.

We need to implement a 50 State Strategy for the Democratic Party to rebuild itself nationwide. In a lot of ways, this is going to be harder in states like Massachusetts than it will be in the so-called "red states." The Democratic Party is an established presence here with very established people who staff it and hold the meetings and keep the infrastructure up and so forth. Any organization grows resistant to change and at some point or another is insular and protective of it's own. The idea of bringing in new people is hard because it challenges "the way things are done" and have always been done.

It was a singular act of courage for Sen. Kerry to make that endorsement. He is now explaining himself to Mass Dems who fought very hard for him all over the US in '04. (Often paying for their own travel and expenses themselves because they really believed in Kerry.) These folks just assumed that the support of the Dem Party in MA would coalesce around Sen. Clinton. She had been good to this state and the argument is as much "why should we change" as it is anything else. In the views of many people, including a lot of my friends, no good reason was given to make the leap to Sen. Obama. He might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but where is the proof of that? These folks don't make the 'leaps of faith' that others in the country are making to back the Senator from Illinois. They are being loyal, as Dems in MA have always been loyal to someone. There are a lot of women in MA who think that Sen. Clinton has done everything she needed to do to gain the loyalty of good Democrats. They feel that their candidate has done everything asked of her and then some and why should some young upstart get the job she has earned. It is not my argument, but I do understand it when I hear it.

Deval Patrick was elected on the basis of his being a new guy and he promised a new way of dealing with things. So far, he has not created the type of change he promised. There are oceans of reasons for this, including great resistance from other Democrats in the State Legislature. I believe Gov. Patrick is frustrated with the lack of movement on his issues as well. But, there is spill-over from that. People do not dislike Deval because of racial reasons, they are frustrated with him because the promises Deval made when he ran are not his seeming priorities now. It's the disconnect that matters. Barack Obama sounds like Deval Patrick. (There are a lot of parallels.) Many voters feel that they took a leap of faith for a new guy who was outside of the traditional MA Dem Party in '06 and nothing changed. Why betray a loyalty for that? This is what is transferable to the Pres race this year.

[beachmom]

14. I guess what is hard for me to understand is what a tin ear some of those "insider" folks have.

Isn't Mass. virulently anti-Iraq War? Why didn't they support the guy most in agreement with their views? I have read that Democratic activists are normally more liberal than Democratic voters. Why would they support Democratic triangulation? I think the answer, in part, is that many Dems in Mass. aren't really all that liberal after all. The Dem Party is simply their team, with no ideological underpinning. ONLY THAT makes backing Clinton make sense to me. I see her betraying progressives nearly every day. I am looking for integrity in the so called most liberal state in the union, and frankly, I just don't see it. The whole point in supporting the Dem Party is to support its basic tenets of beliefs. One of the chief beliefs of Dems is that we treat each other with respect. I don't see that in Clinton or Ferrarro, and well, what you call loyalty, I call corruption. It means selling out for power. BTW, I hear that from right wing conservatives in GA about the dominant Republican Party in GA. When you dominate, and have no fear of losing really, then you stop believing in ideals, and only believe in power for power's sake. Maybe John Kerry the Boy Scout not only makes the DC Establishment nervous, but to a degree, the Mass. Dem Establishment, too (but since he sends, well, the pork home, they'll put up with it).

[MBS]

15. Power for power's sake: Moving from AZ to MA was not as different

. . politically as I thought it would be. Both had essentially one-party state legislatures: Repubs in AZ and Dems in MA.with the other party as a very very tiny minority. And the corruption/power dynamic was surprisingly similar, each a mirror image of the other. (When I moved to MA, Finneran was in his prime. . hardly the kind of person or dynamic to make one uncritically proud of all Democrats).

[TayTay]

17. Yes

It's brand identification, not ideology. Ideology is second.

It used to be much, much worse. Ahm, did I ever tell you the story of how this one guy, who was not a part of the insular political community in MA and was not an identifiable "ethnic" guy or a particularly strong union guy or, ahm, anything else that screams "Massachusetts" got this wicked plum of a Senate seat against some amazingly high odds and competition from The Club? (Cripes, this guy was even known to have ah, protested and stuff. I wicked don't understand how that happened.)

It's a damn good story, but highly improbable. No one would ever believe how hard it was to do. See, we are a Big Blue State and people like that grow on trees around here. (Yeah, sarcasm alert. But honestly, sometimes you sweat blood for this stuff and everyone thinks it's just a given. It's not. Not here and not anywhere else either.)

[cadmium]

8. Mass is a big right-wing radio

market. People here get a lot of their political opinions from talk radio. At every age group AM and FM, students old folks in the house, and laborers all have their talk radio going and like most places our talk radio is 95% right wing.

[MBS]

10. my Massachusetts 2 cents

When I first moved here, I read a quote from someone who said, "Massachusetts is Democratic but not liberal". Outside the liberal bubbles in Cambridge and the Berkshires, that feels true to me.
And I agree with Cadmium about the right-wing radio effect, too.

[beachmom]

12. Somebody told me that, too. She voted for Bush, and had these

weird arguments with Mass. folks, where she said they didn't sound all that liberal to her. They just voted the Democratic team.

[rox63]

16. I believe most Mass Dems will come around if Obama is the nominee

Right now, they are sticking with the familiar face and name. There are some very good takes in this thread on the MA political climate. Most of Mass is not all that liberal. I know my corner of it isn't. (Tay and Cadmium can back me up on that, I'm sure) All this said, I did overhear something kind of depressing yesterday. I was sitting in the waiting room of the car dealership service dept, waiting for them to finish up with my car. And the woman a couple of seats over from was saying to her friend, "If Hillary doesn't get the nomination, I'm voting for McCain. No Obama for me." The funny thing is, the two candidates are not that far apart on policy. So what is her reasoning? Was it racism? I don't know.