Wow. The deadenders at TalkLeft can go .... (*&(&$#*(^W#*($&@(#&$)

[beachmom]

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/7/6/17546/59912#85

Just disgusting and despicable. Lies, innuendo, disrespect, sour grapes. Ugh. I mean, if I had to I would respond to every jerk commenter there!!!

[beachmom]

1. And the antidote to the above post:

http://www.thevaneljournal.com/2008/07/kerry-mccains-judgment-is-dangerous.html

Kerry: McCain's Judgment Is Dangerous

John Kerry is quickly becoming Obama's most effective surrogate.

Appearing on Face The Nation this morning, Kerry artfully deflated Schieffer's attempt to corner him. Schieffer, responding to Kerry's statement that McCain has completely changed his position on a large number of issues asked:

"Are you attacking John McCain’s integrity?"

To which Kerry replied:

"I’m challenging Senator McCain’s judgment. His judgment that says, There’s no violence history between Sunni and Shia. That’s wrong. His judgment that says, This is going to increase the stability of the Middle East. It hasn’t, it’s made it less stable. His judgment that says, This will be the best thing for America and the world in a long time. It’s the worst thing we’ve done in a long time.”

MORE at the link. Great stuff.

[wisteria]

3. This is more like it.

The other post wasn't negative really, just the jerks who have to attack on que.

[karynnj]

6. You were right and I was extremely wrong on how that AP story hurts

My paper had it condensed so it sounded like Kerry challenged his judgment (little context on judgment on what) and no context as to what Scheiffer's role was. It looks like they are trying to discredit anyone who can be a surrogate for Obama. We need to get the interview out - as Beachmom did. (Note - none of the truly outrageous Graham comments are being repeated.

[wisteria]

2. I see the whole gang of them are gathered on this one blog.

You put up a valiant fight, but you can't reason with idiots like these.

[JI7]

4. just a bunch of Hillary supporters bitter over Obama beating her

and it's funny how they still try to claim Kerry is a loser and how he will hurt Obama. Kerry was probably the first big name to endorse OBama and do it early and has consistently been out there.

they are just angry that Bill wasn't effective for Hillary the way KErry was for Obama.

[karynnj]

8. Even before Kerry endorsed Clinton, many Clinton allies spent 2 years bashing Kerry

Think of the Begala, Carville, and McAuliffe books. The overall tone was one of derision. You see all the echoes here - Kerry didn't fight back, Kerry flip flops, Kerry wasn't clear on Iraq. (I guess, unlike Bill Clinton, who was always against it - as he had the chutzpah to say in the primaries.)

Recently there was a good here from someone who started out describing why Kerry was an excellent candidate - and went on to how the party let him down. One reason given was that he was "too sincere", a quality that likely could be ascribed to Gore and Obama as well. It may well be that quality that divides the Kerrycrats and Clintonites. We see that as a virtue; they prefer the Clinton bad boy coolness. It may explain why a few seem to like McCain - like Clinton(in the early 1990s), McCain has been allowed to lie straight faced and have few call him on it.

The real question is how wide spread this group really are - and how much damage they will do to Obama or Kerry. (I suspect Kerry is far less vulnerable. Had one of the pro-HRC congressmen run against him, it could hurt - but O'Reilly is ultimately unacceptable even if you don't like Kerry - and the Republican is extreme.)

What it brings back is that there really is a fight for the soul of the Democratic party. What was covert in 2004 and seemed like the Clinton people jumping on the Kerry team - just to drag their feet, is more open here. What is clear is that there is a ton of work that needs to be done to really bring the party together. What concerns me is that even as the Clintons take baby steps to do so - there are other things said that are designed to do the opposite. (Best example - was that even as HRC gave the concession speech, she continued to speak of the "popular vote" and she has continued to say she will speak of the role of sexism. As she was ahead by 30 points for 2 years - while people KNEW she was a woman, it wasn't sexism that lost people. I think a large part was that seeing the Clintons 24/7, often showing their dark sides, reminded people of things that nostalgia had erased. She lost because the mood was change and because she was HRC married to WJC - and enough people were willing to risk the unknown over the known candidate - some helped by the endorsements he got.

She should take credit for breaking one ceiling. The fact that she was the front runner for 3 years does mean that the country was willing to elect a woman.

[MBS]

9. perfect summary of the state of things

I totally agree that this is a fight for the soul of the party. And I hope that Obama will come through on his great potential to get the party's soul back where it belong. (I admit to being disappointed, and somewhat mystified, by a few of his moves in the last month, which seem to go way beyond the expected move-to-the-center for the GE)

WOW, I've been impressed with JK lately. Even the general DU crowd does seem to be catching on to the fact that Kerry is a man of integrity.

[karynnj]

5. Wow -

They really are incredible. BOTH primaries still anger them. The hatred towards Obama there is even more surprising to me - because we've seen this before for Kerry. (The AP article is awful and Wisteria is right - it looks worse condensed as some papers are doing.
What is lost is the context - Kerry was asked if McCain had changed (or he had since 2004). Kerry listed real changes.

Beyond that there is all primary stuff and the old allegation that he gave Obama his list, denied hundreds of times. The inclusion of all this does show where this is coming from. Do we know if these people always hated Kerry. You did a great job responding in that zoo.

[ray of light]

7. Wow! Those people at TalkLeft sound like Bush koolaid drinkers. I had a hard time

believing they're even Dems at all.

And also, you can bet if Hillary were the nominee and if JK had supported Hillary in the primary more than half of those comments wouldn't be there. Perhaps if he had played it safe--sort of like JRE did after he dropped out--then there wouldn't be the vitriol against him.

However, I do like the fact that the first thread head included all the great comments and other than having to use the words "flip-flop" it was not beating up JK.

[ladym55]

13. I think the MSM garbage infects everyone

There is nothing like listening to a progressive spouting right-wing talking points provided by the MSM without really understanding they've been had.

It's almost scary. I get so frustrated. We have to get smarter.

I'm grateful that JK is willing to go out there and keep trying. The idiots get on my last nerve, and it has to be wearing on Kerry.

[mloutre]

10. I'm sorry, I couldn't even make it more than halfway thru that thread.

Jeebus friggin Crikeys with a mouse in his pocket, those way-left whackjob wingnuts on TL really *are* the very model of the modern lefty freepers!

AIEEE! My eyes!!11!! I'm blind! I'm blind!

(And, I can't see... temporarily... bow-ba-bow-bow-BOW-bow... *ahem*)

[sandnsea]

11. If it weren't for this group

I'd swear the entire country left, right, and center, was out of their minds.

[MBS]

12. what you said. n/t

[beachmom]

14. And more deadenders

hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/07/can-ketchup-queen-save-john-kerryagain.html

(Add http://)