"Kerry's camp responded immediately,"

[wisteria]

A gem here, something most in the media and on our blogs ignore.


"The most prominent reason for the new noise level is the memory of the 2004 Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads. The group began running ads in early August that accused Democratic nominee John Kerry of embellishing his Vietnam War record.

Kerry's camp responded immediately, but many of his backers echoed the thoughts of Joseph Erwin, a Democrat and the president of a Greenville, S.C., advertising and marketing firm, who recalled that the response was "not emphatic enough."


(And why was the response not emphatic enough? Money! Senator Kerry having his hands tied behind his back because of Federal Funding)

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/44320.html

[MBS]

1. Clarence Page on NPR ("On Point") tonight. .

the topic of the moment was that New Yorker cover of the Obamas, and Clarence Page was trying to summarize the anguish of liberals (a group in which he included himself). . "they had the 2000 election stolen from them, the 2004 election swiftboated away, by stereotypes, which were false, against John Kerry". . and how they couldn't stand the thought of an election being taken away, once again, by lies (he didn't say these words , but this is what I inferred from what he said)

[karynnj]

2. Note that the "not emphatic enough" is from an ad guy

Thing of any prior accusation - any campaign.

Take Clinton's - were there ads to counter the accusations that he pulled tons of strings to avoid Vietnam - NO. There were PRESS RELEASES issiued by the war room that were the "Clinton said" side.
Genefer Flowers, again no ads.

Take Gore - when he was accused of lying about his mother-in-law and dog using the same type of medicine and the human depensed one was more expensive - any ads - NO, just an explanation.

I've prited a list of what they already had from Kerry hundreds of times and their immediate response was a 36 page list of descrepancies and provable lies and they had surrogates out. In a few days, they proved the connection to Bush. The problem is the deeper you look the clearer it is that the media condoned or at least allowed this character asassination.

Imagine the alternative that SHOULD have happened. A top investigative reporter would read the 36 pages, read Kerry's Naval records, talk to Brinkley, talk to Senator Warner , who early on defended Kerry's Silver Star, talked to as many neutral swiftboat guys there the same time as Kerry (like Rood from the Chicago Tribune). Then finding the answeer investigate the links to Bush - the same lawyer? This then becomes a story of extremely despicable behavior on the part of the SBVT and the question would be whether Bush knew. The problem might have been had peopel seen that the SBVT were lying and that B/C were linked to them, it would have and should have backfired strongly.

[wisteria]

3. Oh, I agree entirely. The media behaved as gossips instead of journalists

and allowed the lies to go un-refuted on their end. They assisted in the smear by not reporting the truth. You know, I believe they never wanted Kerry to win. They were always going to push Bush. I can't recall one substantially negative piece done on Bush throughout the entire campaign. The only truth was posted on our blogs.

[ladym55]

6. They were just being the corporate media

They didn't want Kerry to win. If we actually HAD journalists in this country who did their JOBS just ONCE in awhile, Kerry would have won in a landslide ... Gore would have won in a landslide. Instead the corporate media let the SBVT story get legs and grow, while ignoring the minor detail that GWB couldn't even be FOUND for a year of his "service."

We're seeing it again. McCain the "war hero," McCain the "maverick." They conveniently ignore the fact that the man has a hard time completing a coherent thought, has no CLUE how Social Security even operates, doesn't know his own voting record, missed the minor detail that Czechoslovakia is no more ... but OBAMA is a flip-flopper, he's being "political," he's "elite."

The journalists in our country operate on the margins and struggle to find outlets. :grr:

[wisteria]

7. Yes, but you are being kind to call many of them journalists.

Many are just after perks and a tabloid story. No truth, just fun and games. To hell with the country.

[ladym55]

19. Whoops!!!

Forgot to put the quotation marks around the word journalists. My bad.

[beachmom]

4. If you look at some of the good people still out there defending Kerry's Navy record

Doug Reese and Matchpoint come to mind. It is unbelievable how much debunking has to happen for each lie. They are quite literally making up new lies about Kerry's war record to this day. That shows how hard it is and was to "fight back" effectively. I love that McClatchy actually described correctly what happened. The truth is it is like infinite to fight back. Because once you debunk one lie, they just make up another. I am not so sure about the wisdom that "fighting back" on every single lie would have worked. Because it was so long ago, and they would make up more lies. The media is the one who opened the door to it: why didn't they tell the truth? That these guys were mad at Kerry for his SFRC testimony in '71, and that is why they are making stories up that cannot be backed up with any evidence.

[karynnj]

5. They are amazing comlicated lies as well

Doug Reese and Matchpoint are completely amazing. I agree with your conclusion. It is amazing that the media would let them go through a whole string of stories, ignoring the number proven false. At some point, it's normal to be labeled "unreliable"

I'm also not sure ads would have helped - unless they just put out Kerry's words before the Firefighters. (In a You tube word - that would have been a perfect thing to send viw email - when it got little airtime. That was the smoking gun on the media - this was a sitting Senator, with a record of integrity and the official record behind him - completely intact (not missing a year like someone else's), they had spent hours on the SBVT, but apparently Kerry's defense was not news. They gave more weight to people known to have lied.

[wisteria]

8. You are right the lies continue, but I don't think they carry much weight any longer.

The only people who enjoy this Kerry Bashing are the 20% of repubs that still think Bush is a great president. However, I don't think there can ever be overkill defending Senator Kerry against these lies. I love that he has such wonderful support from fellow vetarans and friends when it comes to the SB Liars.

[karynnj]

9. There's still a battle to "win" what goes down in history

I think that's why some of the people have created new lies. It is extremely important to them that they be seen as, at minimum, having asked important questions. The AP abets them on this - always defining the SBVT as having questioned Kerry's service record. Recently, they went a step further repeating that then instead of "service record" saying whether Kerry lied about the events that won him his medals.

2004 was a close election and the SBVT hurt in two ways creating a fake negative for Kerry to deal with - which even if generally seen as a lie - wasted time and prevented the appealing image of the Rassman reunion from being as much a part of the definition of who Kerry is as the photos of McCain as a POW are for him. So, when history is written one question will be to define the SBVT. If they lied, the Bush/Cheney people not only engaged in character assassination, but it might have been the difference between winning and losing.

Now, the truth is so bad that the power elite may have a vested interest to try to leave it moot. After all, the truth is that the media showed no outrage when FL, where his brother was governor and the SoS was a leader in the B/C campaign, had a huge pattern of "irregularities" - all of which hurt Gore. Then the Supreme Court decided the election. (One question - where was the Justice Department before and after the election. A Palm Beach official found problems in the felon list before the election - why wasn't this looked into before it was used in the rest of the state.) Then in 2004, the media stood aside and ignored that there was an official Navy record - there was more reason to object to the SBVT than to Rather, he had much more back up than they did - which was easy - they had none.

The problem is that it goes against the typical airbrushing done to make the actual outcome, what should have happened. I suspect that Kerry is being hit more because the consensus is more and more that Bush is an unmitigated disaster and that that should have been obvious. For people who backed Bush, including the media, they need to say that Kerry had sufficient problems that he was a bad choice. The fact though is that almost everything Kerry said in 2004 and what he has done since was completely on target. It was also clear that he always acted in a Presidential manner. This could lead them to wanting that to be murkier - and luckily for them there are a whole slue of RW themes of an elite, aloof guy that the idiotic far left bought because they wanted Dean.

So, it is - as you say important to keep fighting this and it is lucky that matchpoint and Doug Reese are so incredibly knowledgeable that they can blow these things away easily.

[ray of light]

10. Obama said it best...

"perpetuated one of the worst frauds against the American people when they attacked JK's record."

Of course, that's my memory of his words. I may not have them exactly right.

BUT the use of the word "FRAUD" is the most important and is the way that "history" should remember this.

I also want to add this from an email I received. I think it would come under "lessons learned by 04."

I don't have a link. So I'm posting what was in my email.

un 24 2008
Don’t Forward Lying Emails About Public Figures Like Obama - It’s Not a Christian Thing To Do.

Published by admin at 12:05 am under 1st Page. Bible Quotes. Media. OBAMA. Sermons sort of. Temp Hot Topics Print-Ready

I. Waves of Slander

I don’t have statistics, but we all know there’s a lot of falsehood circulating freely online.

An email arrives with frightening accusations or innuendos and the reader gets frightened (as was intended) and forwards the email to warn others of the great danger revealed.

But what if the email is one of the mostly false ones? How should we react if we’re not entirely sure of it’s truthfulness? After all, when we accept at face value lies about a person, group, or situation, and repeat those lies, we have put ourselves in a very bad place - we have become gossips and slanderers.

Slander, you may have heard, is not a Bible virtue, nor even a “family value.” It is certainly not a behavior that God will honor in your life or that will bring an individual or a nation God’s blessing.

Now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. - Colossians 3:8-10

“Do not lie to each other” presumably means to be truthful even if the persons hearing from you kinda like hearing lies and slander. “Do not lie” - BECAUSE you are being made into a “new self.” What a wonderful hope!

II. It’s Nothing New

“They” called President Eisenhower a Communist sympathizer who was selling the country out to the Soviet Union. President John Kennedy was an agent of the Pope trying to give control of the American nation to the Vatican. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was the Anti-Christ.

“They” effectively spread the idea that Al Gore was a mental incompetent, a charge the whole world now knows was wildly false. The lying swift-boaters against Kerry pretended he was a coward and never did what he clearly did do in service to his country in Viet-Nam. And many Americans still believe many of those lies.

“They” will say anything - especially if it’s a scary idea or if it advances some political or religious agenda or campaign.

So it’s not too surprising to see US Senator Barack Obama named in anonymous emails as a likely Anti-Christ, or as a non-Christian, or as a hater of the flag and the Bible, or as an undercover agent of radical Islam, intending to turn America into an Islamic theocracy, or to hear his wife called anti-American and an anti-white racist.

It’s not surprising that such things circulate, but it is preposterous. Sometimes you just have to laugh out loud at the bizarre fantasies these anonymous writers create for their gullible readers to circulate - except that it’s not really very funny.

It should make us fear for our nation. Such slanders sow deep irrational hatred, and have often led to violence against innocent people and large groups for no reason at all. That is not something Christians should welcome or promote.

III. Evil Intentions

Very few people could create and launch such vile lies and still pretend, even to themselves, that they are doing a good thing. There are clearly evil intentions behind this ongoing barrage of lies and verbal violence.

IV. Good Intentions with Evil Results

But some of the time, at least, such emails are forwarded by well-meaning people, sometimes by professing Christians, who are concerned about the future of our county. That is a fine concern.

Still, the Bible warns against enthusiasm without accurate information.

they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge… they did not submit to God’s righteousness. - Romans 10:2,3

And, as illustrated above, the Bible warns strongly and repeatedly against slander and bearing false witness.

Because of our freedoms, slander is free to circulate broadly in our land. “They” will indeed say anything. But it is very wrong for Christians to become slanderers by supporting such liars and their lies.

Unfortunately parts of the Christian community have for years played a large role in this. In my experience a lot of the most dishonest and/or wildly inaccurate emails are circulated enthusiastically by and among “Christians“. The slanders seem to have special credibility because they often make reference to God, the Bible, or the Christian faith. They get read, approved, and forwarded apparently without the slightest question as to whether they are truthful or not.

I guarantee, the Devil himself is glad to talk about God, Jesus, the Bible, and the Christian faith if it will help spread deadly lies. We need to accept that fact.

V. It’s Dangerous to Our Spiritual Welfare to Participate In This Evil Thing

People who walk by the Spirit of Christ are careful not to spread evil reports about other people on the basis of anonymous, thoroughly discredited information. That is evil, hateful behavior, while the Spirit of Christ promotes goodness, love, and honesty.

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction…

Spreading lies is certainly sowing “to please the sinful nature.” If you sow vile slander and hatred, do not expect to reap peace, joy, love, and holiness in our land or in your own heart. That, my friends, is a very serious thing. We reap what we sow, and nice talk about not being perfect, just forgiven, will not cover it. Jesus is still asking, “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord’ and do not do what I say?”

If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. - Gal 5:15,16

As the collector of Proverbs warns,

If you say, “But we knew nothing about this,”
does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?
Does not he who guards your life know it?
Will he not repay each person according to what he has done?
- Proverbs 24:12

It is wildly inappropriate for professing Christians to participate in spreading vile slanders against anyone, especially against prominent leaders in our democracy such as Senator Obama.

[karynnj]

11. Great email - very nicely done

I hope this gets wide distribution. I was happy to find a Jewish website that countered the lies about Obama targeted towards the Jewish community, but I think this is far more effective as it is clearly designed to reach people as it reached you. It also has the advantage that it is not lie specific. As Beachmom pointed out they can and will continue making up new lies. (That was on Kerry, where the facts are incredibly well documented, thus easier to find a response.)

The Obama quote was perfect - was it from the Fox hearing - I remember his comments were wonderful, but forget the specific content.

[MBS]

12. I think it was from the Fox hearing. .

so the remarks would be archived somewhere. I don't remember Obama's words being quite so strong as recounted here, but he did make at least a clear statement that the SVBT were liars and/or that the SVBT lies lost Kerry the presidency.

[karynnj]

13. Ray of light's memory is perfect on this

He said it was a fraud. He also said it had a profound impact on the election.

Here's a link to the hearing:
http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/hearings/2007/hrg070227p.html

(click on Nominations - Obama's comment is at 2:16

[MBS]

14. thanks! n/t

[Luftmensch067]

15. Indeed perfect!

Thanks to Ray of Light and to everyone on this thread, but esp. to Karynnj for the link. I love what Obama said, but I'd forgotten how invigorating it was to watch JK's slow and steady exposure of Fox as a completely unqualified buffoon being slid into a cushy diplomatic post he didn't deserve, as well as holding him over a flame with regard to his unconscionable contributions to the Swift Liars.

I adore watching JK kill Fox with deadly kindness as he metes out justice.

[MBS]

16. that was a great, great moment indeed

JK was courteously, but relentlessly, devastating. The courtesy made it even more lethal.

[Luftmensch067]

17. "Go ahead and pull the mike a little closer"

Hee, hee!

[karynnj]

18. That was cute - he knew it was the last thing Fox wanted to do

I agree with MBS, the courtesy and sheer reasonableness made it far more devastating. I kept thinking of Fox's grandkids sitting there, seeing this gentleman, quietly but throughly explaining what Fox had to already know when he signed that check.

From the other things Kerry said of him, Fox seemed like he most likely was a somewhat decent guy, who never stopped to thing that John Kerry was a person, a person who risked his life for his country and had then gone on to a long life of public service. It almost seemed that Kerry used Fox's own conscience to put him on trial. (It did freak me out though when he asked if 2 wrongs made a right - we often heard that from my dad.)

[wisteria]

23. Fox may go on in life to consider the impact of his actions on other people's lives. n/t

[wisteria]

22. Senator Kerry's interrogation was the highlight of that entire hearing. n/t

[wisteria]

21. The word "Fraud" fits more than one situation in regards to the 2004 election.

And, a true Christian would not knowing lie about anyone and engage in manipulation and misrepresentations of a person. These people are Christians only in name.

[wisteria]

20. Yep, we can not allow them to rewrite the truth to make themselves look honest.

I will always defend Kerry on the lies of the SBV. These slim balls, not only engaged in - as you say - character assassination, but they lied to the American people for personal and political reasons.