We always knew that waaaay after the stolen election we'd hear more...

[ray of light]

I'm wondering how much more we'll hear in 2009!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3408778

[wisteria]

1. Who said "the wheels of justice turn exceedingly slow"?

When it no longer can make a difference and many people have moved on, the truth comes out. Will we ever see Rove receive what he deserves?
I care though, I will always care.

[YvonneCa]

2. Me, too...

...wisteria. And I do think the truth will eventually be told. I just hope to be still around to hear it. :7

[ginnyinWI]

3. yeah I know--how long must we wait.

I hope JK hears that he really won within his lifetime! I think he knows it, but it needs to be commonly understood--and included as part of the history of this horrible Rove-orchestrated presidency.

[YvonneCa]

4. Hi ginny...

...it's nice to see you here. :hi:


This is my hope, too: "...it needs to be commonly understood..." History must record the truth...JMHO.

Some here have heard my unexplainable (to me, anyway) feeling on this. I don't generally believe in 'psychic' experiences, but I shook the hand of a President when I shook JK's hand at City College out here in Ca. after the 2004 election. I can't shake that feeling...no matter how I try.

Weird, huh? :)

[MBS]

6. If any candidate could be called "presidential timber", Kerry is at the

top of the list. I had the same feeling when I was in the audience for his Hardball interview in October 2003. I was just blown away. I thought to myself, "Oh, my God. He's the real thing!" And he was. And is. I'd voted in 9 presidential primaries and general elections before 2004, followed them all closely, campaigned in a few, and I'd never--NEVER --had had that feeling before. Obama is presidential timber, too, and I'm firmly supporting him. But Kerry will always be #1 in my book, in character, in depth, in experience, in everything. I also would like to see him vindicated in the popular mind SOON. He deserves it, and our country needs to know what they lost.

[YvonneCa]

8. I'm looking forward to...

...some day...shaking Obama's hand, too. :) But I agree with you that "...our country needs to know what they lost."

And I think that understanding will mean more, when Kerry is seen...side by side...with President Obama. I can't wait !!! :patriot:

[wisteria]

9. You said it all very well. I had very little interest in politics until the 2000 election.

I followed mostly the ending although I did have Gore/Lieberman signs on my lawn (I still have them), but it was Senator Kerry in 2003 who had all the attributes I believe a president should have that got me so interested in seeing him elected. He is so much more of a man and a leader than Bush will ever be and of course his "loss" just devastated me. I could surmise what was coming with a second Bush term.

[ginnyinWI]

15. In my ideal world,

Gore would be finishing his second term right now and Kerry would be the Vice President. JK would now be running for President for the first time, with Obama as his running mate. Obama would be elected following JK's two terms; that would make a total of 24 years of smart, compassionate leadership. If only!

[YvonneCa]

17. May I visit...

...your ideal world from time to time? :7 Just on the tough days...

[ginnyinWI]

11. Hi Yvonne.

I need to get in here more often to post. I do come to read almost every day. Very busy with my daughter's wedding coming up a week from tomorrow!

I shook his hand too. That was the second time I saw him at an event. But the first time I saw him was when I was blown away. I saw him from about six feet away and I was sure I was looking at a great man--a President--and said so to the person I was with. It was as if there was an electrical charge in the air or something. Quite remarkable. I guess some call it charisma. He glittered.

[YvonneCa]

12. Congratulations on...

...your daughter's wedding. Being 'Mother of the Bride' is wonderful...and stressful...at the same time. (Both my daughters married in the past 4 years.)

"He glittered." Yes, he did. :7

[ginnyinWI]

14. thankyou

The wedding is one week from today (scream!). We have been planning for a year, though, and think we have everything covered. There will be a hotel reception with 107 guests, but the harder part will be doing the ceremony at a community building in a city park, where we will be bringing in all the flowers and decorations. But it's a very pretty building as civic buildings go--has a cathedral ceiling and lannonstone fireplace and is on the banks of a river.

This will be our one wedding of this size and scope. Our son got married four years ago, and our other daughter had a courthouse wedding the first time, and would never want one this big if/when she marries again. Although "small but nice" can also get expensive, right?

(sorry this is OT for this forum :) )

[YvonneCa]

16. It really sounds lovely...

...and I'm sure things will go well. I hope you are able to relax and enjoy it when the day finally arrives.

My oldest daughter was married outside and we worried about the predicted rain. My youngest had her wedding in an idyllic setting... a park overlooking the beach. It was beautiful, but we almost couldn't get there when the limo driver locked his keys in the limo. :7 But now we have such special memories of both weddings. :)

It's a special moment...no matter the setting. I'm sure your daughter's special day will be beautiful. I'll keep you in my thoughts next Saturday.


New DUJK rule (?) OT okay for weddings and grandchildren. :7

[MBS]

5. I consider these people traitors.

Glad to see the truth coming out, finally, as I always knew it would. But, damned frustrating nonetheless. If only one could rewind history. .

[wisteria]

10. Yes, they are no less than traitors. n/t

[MBS]

7. Arnebeck and election activist Steve Heller on radio TONIGHT 7-9 pm ET

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3674899

[ray of light]

13. So....even as the proof will filter up...in the end, what's the point? We can't undo the damage &

can't undo the laws and signing statements done by Bush and the evil republicans.

That's what pisses me off most of all! 4 more years of hell. 8 years total... Of a guy and a Republican, neoconservative, effort that has caused our government to turn against the people and against the world. They have been able to place corrupt layers upon more corrupt layers though out our whole system. And so even if they eventually have all the facts...all of us and our kids will pay the price for a long time to come!

[wisteria]

18. It will serve as a reminder of what happens when you aren't engaged enough

and allow others to do your thinking for you. Bush wouldn't of even been able to steel the election in 2000 if more people paid attention to who was in the shadows pushing and pulling for Bush.
The same thing was true in 2004.

[YvonneCa]

20. I agree, wisteria, that...

...'We, the people,' didn't do our part. Some did, but much of our population became complacent. The ONE good thing about the last eight years is that it DID wake some people up. I think, in large part, Obama has been able to tap into that, energize people, and get people engaged again. And that is good. IMO.

[MBS]

23. absolutely right.

I was flabbergasted by the indifference and/or ignorance and lack of engagement of so many in 2004. 2000, too, but in 2004, when the effects of W's presidency had become so evident, along with his utter lack of competency (those DEBATES. . God). . I will never understand those people (and among the indifferent, I include many of my ostensibly well-educated colleagues, many of whom went on with business as usual, with the country crumbling all around them. . )

[YvonneCa]

19. But maybe...with the facts...

...we can improve the system of presidential elections to prevent a repeat performance. Technology... while it innovates...creates a need to re-assess and re-design systems. The influence of technology on our election process...while imagined to be a tool that would improve things...didn't work so well in 2000 and 2004. JMHO. And who knows about 2008?

Our kids (and all of us) will pay a price for the past 8 years. But IF we learn the right lesson (and I don't know if we have yet) we can make the presidential election process better. Not perfect...but better. Here's a non-technology improvement...it should be illegal for state level Secretaries of State (responsible to count votes) to also be chair of a political party (Harris in Florida and Blackwell in Ohio). Some states (Ca and Ohio, for example) now have Dems who know this...but the LAW hasn't changed at the federal level.

That's why I want the truth out. For Kerry, for sure. But for all of us...as a way to initiate and implement change.

C'mon, ray, be a 'Hope-monger'! :7

[ray of light]

21. lol. Thanks! hope-monger is my last name...

Ray of light Hussein hope-monger

[YvonneCa]

22. I know...

...it is. It's a GREAT name, too. :7

[politicasista]

24. Do you know if

Obama has a plan just in case, since Kerry is still slammed here for not speaking up or having a plan for a stolen election.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6547034&mesg_id=6547034

[Mass]

25. Good question, but ignore the person who posted this thread.

[politicasista]

26. Thanks

I know she doesn't speak for MA peeps. :)

[Mass]

27. Actually, her criticism of Kerry aside, she has a good point and it really frightens me

that people are answering: "oh, dont bother! Obama is so great!".

As blm has often pointed at, the Democrats have often been less than apt at securing the elections. 2000 (and probably 2004) were stolen, so it is a valid question to ask if everything that needs to be done as been done. It is also a valid question to remember that the biggest fraud is about people who are not able or allowed to vote (even if the BBV machines are the most publicized).

To tell the truth, at this point, it is probably too late. This should have been started in 2005.

[YvonneCa]

28. I think many people...me included...

...worry about this. I attended a book signing by Richard Hayes Phillips a couple of weeks ago...and EVERYONE there was aware of the Ohio situation.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x505718


I agree with you that it is is probably too late (if they haven't taken steps already) to do much before 2008. And I know this topic is not very popular in this forum, especially now that JK has committed to the Senate seat. :) I just think we still have to reform the process...because too much went wrong in Ohio. JMHO.

Didn't Hillary Clinton sponsor Election Reform legislation right after Boxer's objection in 2005? I was pretty sure she did...and several senators signed on (to the best of my memory) but it stopped there...most likely because they couldn't get enough votes and Bush would have vetoed it anyway.

[Mass]

29. Oops, I was answering to politicasista, not to rayoflight. So, my post does not necessarily make a

lot of sense here, but you seem to have grasped it. You're right, Clinton signed on the Boxer reform, as did Kerry, but it went nowhere (in 2005, they did not have the majority, and in 2007, they still did not have enough people to get this through.).

[politicasista]

30. Saw your comment above

I saw your comment in the linked thread, but decided to let it sink (no need to kick it. :)) I do think she let the ones that should have been doing the harder work off the hook, but to each is own I guess.

I agree with you about (and your thoughs on the peeps in that thread) the silence among the Dem leadership about this. It's too late for this year, but it should be a priority for future elections.