I'm really hoping that Kerry is chosen for SoS.

[jillan]

The more I think about it, the more I'm hoping it happens.

Not only is he a foreign relations expert, but you know that Biden is going to be
very involved in foreign relations - I mean - how can he just turn that part of him off after all these years.
Biden and Kerry work so well together and are such great friends.

I really think that Biden would have the utmost confidence in Kerry as SoS, and would be willing to let go with John Kerry on the job :) I am hoping Biden is convincing Obama to pick JFK.

How are you guys feeling about it?

I just worry about what would happen to the SFRC with both of them gone. Imho - they are the 2 powerhouses on that committee.

[MarjorieG]

1. Conflicted if needs to be Chair SFR, there for MA and for environment.

No doubt Kerry instrumental in Biden pick, and all three peas in a pod. Kerry to be trusted with any message, nuance and implementation. Really wonder.

[Mass]

3. The environment will be a big part of diplomatic effort in the years to come, as will be trade.

All reasons why I feel poorly when I hear Hagel and Lugar as potential choices. Their records on these issues are very poor.

[Mass]

2. I am doubtful it will happen. It is clear that some powers among hawkish Dems and

Republicans have decided it would not happen. TNR is already in arms against that (saying that he traded his endorsement for a cabinet position, as if it made sense, at a time when Hillary Clinton was totally favorite after New Hampshire), and the rumor mill that he is pressuring Obama for the position is getting very nasty.

I'd like to see it happen, but there is also another question, in line with the SFRC chair. Feingold is next in line (and would be a great chair as well, IMHO), but the same hawkish democrats do not want Feingold as chair and are pushing to skip over him and Boxer to take Nelson instead.

These may be considerations to keep Kerry there.

[jillan]

4. Yeah - that SFRC is a problem.

Dodd is really next in line, and as much as I love Dodd - I dunno about him as chair.
Besides - he needs to concentrate on the Banking Cmte.

Nelson? Ugh.


Who makes the decision about who would chair the SFRC anyway?
Isn't it done by seniority? One thing for sure, it's not done by TNR.

[karynnj]

5. It's not done by TNR is right

My understanding is that it is done by seniority, but the party has some ability to skip over people. (My guess is that they could refuse to assign them to the committee if they don't waive the right.

My guess is that whether as SoS or chair of the SFRC, Kerry will be one of the people who has the ear of Obama on policy. (Not to mention - Joe will too and Kerry will have Joe's ear - Now on the partition of Iraq amendment, Kerry clearly did influence Biden to change - but only after a year and because the bill as written wasn't getting traction. His comments then on Kerry were very nice - as they were at a hearing where they spoke of the national security issues caused by global warming. Both times, his comments went beyond what he needed to say. I think there was a bit of rivalry - which makes sense - in 2004, Kerry was the junior, younger person who got traction when he didn't. Kerry is the more eloquent and more elegant guy. This led to Biden pulling rank when he first took over the committee - unlike Lugar who always let Kerry speak beyond his time - complimenting him afterwards. But, I would hope that as VP, Biden would be less insecure than he was.

[politicasista]

6. Do you know what Biden accomplished as

Chairman of the SFRC? I am sure it was a lot. (I am sure pirhana knows too. :))

The reason I asked is because, there are people I know (not anyone in the DC establishment) who don't want Obama to appoint him in his cabinet to anything.

Not even SOS, despite all his foreign policy expertise. I am thinking that they just want him to remain just another irrelevant Democratic senator who will just be marginalized and ignored, just like his Obama endorsement and DNC speech were. They were overlooked while the other big name endorsements and speeches got big, if not good press (at least in the black media, press, blogs).

Don't know why I am still defensive of the senator 4 years later, when I should be excited about an Obama presidency and the history in the making. :shrug:

[Mass]

7. May be you should tell your friends they are wrong on all accounts.

Kerry's endorsement was not ignored by the media neither was his speech at the Convention. Actually, it got quite a review in the news. It was a BIG deal as it was the first big name to come. They just forgot because he did it early. I am sure that it was also a BIG deal in the black media, and a simple google would tell you. Indeed, no endorsement news lasts more than a few days, because they are replaced by the next one.

Kerry will be an influential Senator if he does not go to the cabinet, getting the chair of the SFRC, which may be more influential than a cabinet position as it supervises the SoS.

You probably will not convince your friends. Just tell them it is Obama's responsibility to choose the cabinet and that their opinion or yours do not matter.

BTW, what is the relationship between what Biden accomplished during the two years he was chair of the SFRC (under Bush's rule) and Kerry being SoS? I am not following.

[politicasista]

12. It was a big deal there, but in the

black media, it wasn't. There were no articles, pics, or anything like that. The other big name endorsements (i.e. Edwards, Richardson, The Clintons, etc). got better pics, press, if not mentions in soundbites in the urban media and press. Not even BET or TVOne covered or mentioned his DNC speech. You would think people would be excited that a former presidential nominee endorsing the next POTUS, the first president of color would be big news, but instead, it was more snark like "Yawn," "He snubbed his former VP mate," and other stupid comments.

How many of them know that had it not been for Kerry introducing Obama by letting him deliver the keynote address in 04, that we would not have a President Obama? How many of them are aware (outside of MA) what Kerry has even done in the Senate since 05?. The answer, not many. You would think that HRC or anyone else has lead on the issues that are now the Obama agenda. Either they are just uninformed or don't care. That's why I think he is still marginalized and/or ignored even if he is still in the Senate. I know Obama will listen to him, which speaks volumes and shows that he knows and understands Kerry than most do.

As karyn and MBS said, (paraphrasing) in due time what happened or what Kerry did in 04 will be seen in a better light as long as he continues to be himself, a powerful senator on the issues that matter. But I think he will always be handicapped by what happened in 2004. I say that because if Kerry's name was mentioned as SOS, AG, or some other cabinet position, you wouldn't hear or read as much snark, compared to other candidates Obama is looking at. People still have not let go of 2004 and I think that's unfortunate, but that's the way it is I guess. I am just wanting to see Kerry be respected in some form. That's all.

Thanks for the advice. I already told them that, and in the end it is Obama's responsibility and our opinions don't matter. He just wants who is best for the job period.

I guess I am asking about the duties or accomplishments of the SFRC
Chairman because I think SOS has more visibility, especially in the historical Obama Administration.
I guess I am asking

[karynnj]

10. Because you know he is a good guy?

I think what Biden did is less than what Kerry might be able to do because Kerry is very likely to have the chair for at least the next 2 years, likely longer. An obvious major difference is that Biden had Bush as President; Kerry will have Obama.

Biden never had 2 solid years (when he wasn't campaigning) and he never had a Democratic President. Biden became chair in 2007, and he did have those hearings on Iraq, but then he was campaigning until about February 2008. Before that Biden was chair from when Jeffords switched on May 25, 2001 until the new Congress came in in January 2003 - meaning he was the chair for hearings on Iraq leading up to the IWR and the run up to the war. (That's why the bill was Biden/Lugar)

A recent Biden bill was the big AIDS bill - the original legislation on that was Kerry and Frist - but as you can see their names were not on the completed bill and that is most often listed as a Bush accomplishment - but it is a Biden accomplishment too.

I get what you mean about Kerry rarely getting the credit he is due- though he was widely praised on the blogs for his convention speech and his advocacy this year - but I have a conjecture on why he sometimes hasn't goten the praise due. Kerry has (because of principles) been in the position of telling unpleasant truths more than anyone else I can think of. This is needed - and it means he has sometimes stopped very bad things, but it is not "feel good" legislation. No one wants to accept their country is doing wrong - and there are at least 4 times when Kerry has been the most prominent messenger - Vietnam, the Contras, BCCI and Iraq (yes, I know what the lefty freepers say - but to the part of the country not wanting that message - it was Kerry saying "wrong war").

With Obama as President, if he does get the country on a new saner path - and he changes the dysfunctional foreign policy of the last several decades, the history of that period - especially as we move away from it will be rewritten. If you believe, as I think we all do, that Kerry's stands were right and in each case ended something completely wrong, he will come out a hero. More importantly, Kerry knows that his kids and family know the hero he really is. Kerry knows that there were vets who spent months in Iowa on their own money telling people who he was. Kerry knows that Rassman and his crew know he is special.

Ask yourself this would it be easier to be learning the history of the last half of the last century, even as it now is in textbooks, as Vanessa's or Alexandra's child or as a descendent of Nixon?, Reagan?, Bush 1?, Bush 2, or even Chelsea Clinton's granddaughter. They were all Presidents, but the Kerry grandkids will know their grandpa stood up to power several times.

[politicasista]

14. Yes, he is that too

Thanks for the break down of the SFRC. I hope I didn't come across as demeaning Vice President Biden. I was just wondering what was accomplished or done while he was chairman of the SFRC. Not many are aware that Obama served with Biden and Kerry on that committee also.

And you may be right about the media coverage. I was just thinking that maybe it wasn't covered because it was a DLC demand because Bubba and Biden were billed as the stars of that night, or they were just trying to make him disconnected for the AA community cause no one, even people interviewed on BET or TVOne (except for a soundbite) mentioned it. I had to leave a YouTube link of his DNC speech at every blog if anyone was interested. I know it's not fair to him or Obama to say that because Obama wants to be the president for ALL Americans, (that's a good thing, whether people like that or not :)).

I like the last paragraphs of your post. I am hopeful that will happen and will become a fruition of things to come. :)

[karynnj]

17. Thanks - I actually looked up the times, because I was uncertain

I didn't take it as demeaning Biden. I do think that Kerry is more suited to running hearings than Biden - I actually liked Lugar much better in terms of the way he usually ran the meetings (except one really awful Bolton one where he kept stopping people from speaking. Kerry's own sub committee meetings seemed better run, as were his small business ones. Kerry also - contrary to some Duers is far more succinct and pointed in his questioning.

Thanks for the compliment on the end. Right now, this is an embarrassment of riches - should he be the chair of an old powerful committee which was his first 3 choices to be on when he entered the Senate. (He said SFRC,SFRC, SFRC). It was also where he became known as a very brave, brilliant, 27 year old vet, more serious than anyone his age. - or should he be SoS?

He also knows he laid the ground work for where we are - and had the confidence to say that in his MA election night speech. He was one of the people who changed history.

[politicasista]

18. Right, people remember

Anita Hill. I was too young to remember the Clarance "Fathead" Thomas confirmation hearing back in 1991, but I heard people (a couple of years before he was considered Obama's VP mate) say that they didn't care for how he treated her.

Went back and edit because I meant to say I hope "I" wasn't coming across as demeaning VP Biden (I am a fast typist :)) as to say he didn't accomplish anything as SFRC Chairman. I was just wondering what he did besides call hearings. And thanks again for the explanation.

He is one of the people who changed history, whether people will actually see that he really did play a part (one of many) in getting Obama elected remains to be seen. Or it may be that he and Obama wanted it to be hush, hush all along.





On edit: After reading beachmom's thread, guess it's always good to be careful what you wish for. Hate I typed the "handicapped over what happened in 2004" part (too late too edit :(). I know that was wrong to say that.

[jillan]

19. Karyn, with all due respect - I don't know what the heck you are talking about.

First of all Biden's plan was not a partition. Please - you sound like a rw talking head when you say that.
Second of all, his plan for Iraq was written with Les Gelb. Did you know that?
Kerry may have made suggestions to Biden on his plan, as did other Senators. Biden's goal was to work across the aisle, in hopes to get the Senate to offer the Bush administration a different direction in Iraq than to keep going nowhere. In the end, Biden's plan received 73 votes....but Bush never acted on it. Never mind that leaders of Iraq and of that region were pushing the same plan at the same time.


Where are you coming from in your post? I really don't get it.
Biden is insecure? Kerry got more traction than Biden?
What??????
I have NO clue what you are talking about. What I do know is that Biden and Kerry have a great working relationship and that they have alot of respect for each other. That is why I was hoping that Kerry would be chosen as SoS, so that relationship could continue.

:crazy:

[politicasista]

21. Actually, you can thank me for this

I was inquiring about what things Biden accomplished as Chairman of the SFRC since Kerry is consider to be his successor if he doesn't take the SOS job. Unless there are people that dislike Kerry for the past or ignore that he is really smart and close to Obama on FP issues, many are pushing Richardson or some one else, so if Kerry were to succeed Biden, I was asking because I don't know much about the job or the duties. :shrug:

[karynnj]

23. Ok

I used the word that the plan was called when Biden first spoke of it - it is common usage (ie - http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/007531.php ) - I know the idea was proposed for years by Gelb and Galbraith. As to what I said it is true - Biden introduced it when Kerry was arguing Kerry/Feingold and he had at most two co-sponsors and he didn't take it to the floor.

Kerry's call for a regional summit was passed as a resolution to the fall 2006 defense allocation. In late fall, after the Baker report, kerry was asked about Biden's plan on Wolf Blitzer. Kerry spoke of it as a sensible idea, except we could not bedrawing the lines and defining the functions of the states versus the national entity. (from memory) These were the changes that were made - before the bill passed. Here is a link with Kerry's speech, some comments from Warner and Biden's comments. Listen to Warner's comments in particular - Kerry's was the first resolution for a summit to pass.
http://www.kerryvision.net/2007/09/biden_gives_props_to_senator_k.html


Those changes are why I prefer Kerry's foreign policy to Biden's - the need to be sensitive to the colonial past is important. I did watch the entire session when they were debating and voting on this.

I do think that Biden and Kerry had a decent relationship, but I remember the hearings in January 2007, when Kerry, Dodd, Obama, and Biden were all potentially running. Biden pontificated after everyone else's turn and rigidly cut both Kerry and Obama off.

I do think there was some rivalry - that's not unexpected they are 2 very ambitious guys.

[jillan]

24. Karyn - Biden's plan for Iraq was written in 2006 with Gelb, not Galbraith.

Galbraith had a similar plan - but his plan was a true partition.

At the same time Biden brought his plan to the floor of the Senate for a vote, the same plan was being promoted in Iraq by an Iraqi politician. Biden's plan was applauded by dignataries all over the world, and in the US.
Biden and Gelb wrote their plan based on the origins of the country. It was the British in 1929(?) that first tried to have Iraq governed by a central government. There was a terrible war because of that, not much different than what has been going on their under Bush. I don't want to get into a whole history lesson here, but being sensitive to Iraq's colonial roots was exactly what their proposal was based upon.
I'm certain Biden would have asked Kerry for his input before Biden brought his bill to the floor.
As I know Biden asked Warner for his input, among others. And I am certain that Biden respected their suggestions and made changes accordingly....because that's how legislation gets passed in DC. Give and take.



I don't know why you are trying to compare and contrast Biden and Kerry on foreign policy.
They are BOTH foreign policy experts. In fact, I recall when Kerry was running for President, it was Biden that he turned to for advice on foreign policy, and was even considering Biden for SoS.
Between that and watching Biden go off on the msm about the swiftboat liars is when I realized how much respect the two have for each other.

I love and respect Kerry. I really do hope he is SoS.
I just feel like you have wrong information on Biden's proposal. And I can't believe you are calling Biden insecure; saying that he purposefully cut off Obama and Kerry during a hearing; or even calling Biden the same names that upset you when those labels are used against Kerry.
Thankfully Obama saw more in Joe Biden than you do.

I am so done with this conversation.

[karynnj]

25. Pirahana - get off it

Did you listen to the Kerryvision speeches? The fact is that when Biden FIRST was proposing the plan, Kerry did explain what he liked about it and his problem on it. The final amendment as written DID include those changes. I know that Gelb wrote the legislation, but he was not the only proponent of it. Of course, Biden is a foreign policy expert. I NEVER said he wasn't. I prefer Kerry's world view - which is MY right.

The fact is that in at least one hearing, Biden did cut off both Kerry and Obama.

I like Biden, but that did happen. The expanation "insecure" was opinion and I agree I can not defend it - because I do not know his reason - it actually is one of the kinder ones. Nothing I said here was inappropriate and your Biden worship is not the only view allowed.

I do not make things up - and you can go jump in the lake!

[WheelWalker]

26. They have LAKES in Arizona?!?

Might I conjecture you are not encouraging my friend Pirhana to have a fun day at the beach?

[karynnj]

27. Yes there are;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arizona_lakes

It was politer than the obvious alternative. I was angry as - insecure, which was OPINION, which was opinion of why he did something that was described, allowing for other interpretations. There was NOTHING close to an attack, and certainly not a RW one. Her attack was unwarranted and inaccurate for many reasons. She obviously did not listen to Kerry, Biden and Warner. It is completely legitimate to compare foreign policy of Biden and Kerry. I have spent the last 4 years watching speeches and seeing informal comments from both. I think they might well agree on 90% of everything on foreign policy - but it was one difference that I wrote of. I also stated that I liked John Kerry better in that difference - no surprise! This is the John Kerry group.

The root of my anger at her attack was that what I said was far milder than many words that she used or attacks she made in anger against Kennedy and Kerry in the wake of their endorsement - which were appalling.

[WheelWalker]

28. I see. Thank you.

I have found that the path is not so difficult for one who has no preferences.

[1corona4u]

30. No, you don't like Biden, probably never did.

But who cares what you think anyway....

[JI7]

32. she argued for Biden over others for VP

[1corona4u]

29. Sorry-late to the party, but I agree with everything you said,

because it's ALL TRUE. I don't know how people spin shit like they do on this board, but perhaps they have a future with FOX News.

Unreal.

I'm not wasting any more time correcting people who should just get a life. Preferably outside of political discussions, if they don't have all the facts.

[fedupinBushcountry]

31. For your information

this is the John Kerry forum, read the rules.

[1corona4u]

34. Oh, so facts don't matter in this forum?

I see.

[JI7]

35. you didn't post any facts, Karyn supported Biden for VP

you are claiming she never liked him based on a few criticisms she had of him .

everyone on this forum thinks Biden is one of the top experts when it comes to foreign policy. a few criticisms of some of his ideas doesn't mean we don't like him.

[1corona4u]

36. Pirhana posted the facts, I agreed with her.

Karyn did not post facts.

Now I am done batting this lame ball around. I have a life, and work to do.

[JI7]

37. you accused her of never liking or supporting Biden

that was not a fact .

[Mass]

9. At least, Reid realizes how these rumors are damaging and confirms it would be Feingold if not Kerry

Good news

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/1108/Feingold_absolutely_in_line_for_foreign_relations_chair.html

[ginnyinWI]

8. my two cents:

The SFRC chair is less important now that we have a Democratic President. So I'd say Kerry would enjoy the SoS job better. But still I do know that he loves that committee. We'll see then. What I'd really like to know is how attached to his Senate seat he is now.

There was some old English dude on the radio today (XM POTUS) saying that Kerry should not be picked for SoS because he is so "stiff"!! I wanted to reach through the radio and throttle him. I wanted to ask him if he knows JK personally or not, because I'm sure he's dead wrong. JK knows so many world leaders and there are always laughing and smiling pictures of them together with JK. That guy was full of BS.

Now I want JK to get the job just to prove him wrong!

[karynnj]

11. He certainly was not stiff in the least on Monday or Tuesday this week

I was in Boston with the other JK people. He was hilarious at the Barnstable rally on Monday and funny even at 6;30 in the morning when he saw his staff and others cheering him on when he went to vote. (Both videos on johnkerry.com)

Besides, how can he both be stiff and wind surf? the two images don't match.

[beachmom]

13. I'm torn on this. I think Obama needs the best people, and Kerry

is the absolute best on foreign policy (better than Bill Richardson who shamelessly pandered to the left with his absurd Iraq plan pulling ALL troops out of Iraq including residuals in 6 months -- Biden called him on it outside of a debate and Bill admitted it was a completely unworkable plan. Sorry, but that is sleazy big time.). But .....

Kerry is also a great Senator and (sad to say) will soon become the Senior Senator from Massachusetts, and right away would be the Chairman of the SFRC. Not only that, Kerry is excellent on a great many issues including a very important high speed rail bill he has been working on for some time (this could be a lasting legacy for him, having a far greater impact on people than even ending the Iraq War). He is also superb on the environment, for which the hard part is getting a bill passed through Congress.

I love Joe Biden, and admire him. But he has an ego, and despite saying he won't intrude on State, um, that may be a promise he cannot keep. For too long, Kerry (and Obama, incidentally, who was not allowed to do any hearings in his subcommittee on Europe) has had to operate in the SFRC under the Biden shadow. He goes to State, and it may well be the same situation.

But ... going back to my original point, Obama needs the best of the best to get us out of the mess Bush created. Kerry is that.

[politicasista]

15. Guess it's almost like be careful what you ask or wish for n/t

[ProSense]

16. He would make a

great Sec. of State

JK is in a great position.

[YvonneCa]

20. I hope he will be named...

...SOS by Obama. For all the reasons all of you here spell out eloquently. He would be the best. But for all the Massachusetts constituents (especially those here) ...it would be such a great loss. That saddens me.

I guess we'll know soon.:grouphug:

[JI7]

22. this was nice, Craig Crawford on Keith Olbermann said Kerry could do both

Sec of State and SFRC Chair. hahaha

he wasn't serious and Kerry would never do it but just mentioned that there is probably nothing that wont allow it.

he also talked about how people like Lieberman and don't like Stevens. Olbermann asked why they like Lieberman after everything he has done and Crawford said they like him personally .Olbermann said he doesn't see why anyone would like him personally either. i agree with this.

but it's starting to look like not much will be done about Lieberman.

[DU GrovelBot]

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