a thought or two on terrorism

[ginnyinWI]

Michael Scheuer ("Anonymous") says that terrorists love peoples' over-reactions, passing Patriot Acts and installing super security measures and such. And they just hate it when the people still go about their business as usual. It infuriates them. They love it when Bush and Blair react in knee-jerk fashion with big words like "they hate us for our freedoms". Nonsense. They hate us because of our foreign policies.

Richard Clarke says this is because they want us out of Iraq, and hope to set up their own government, styled after a 14th century Theocracy.

David Ervine, a former IRA terrorist himself, lets us see into the mind of a terrorist: What wore them down, in the end, was realizing the futility of their actions. They will stop if they don't get results. The terrorists don't care about what they are doing to people, because they are thinking, "but look what they did to us!" Ervine says we must get clever, not angry.

Some right wingers I've heard on programs like Washington Journal since the attacks show their cowardice. They say something like, "well, the only way to solve this problem is to NUKE all of the countries that let terrorists live inside their borders". Yeah, sure: we need to kill the whole world just so we can feel a little bit safer. These people are not only selfish, they have wide yellow streaks running down their backs!

John Kerry says we need to secure borders, invest in intelligence, and work toward the day where terrorism is seen as a nuisance. Seeing how the Brits have reacted to the attacks with such resolve shows that they have this same attitude. You don't panic, you don't change your life radically. You take courage and go on and DO NOT let them frighten you. You respond by being clever and smart, not out of blind fear.

And that is exactly what the terrorists hate.

Right on, John. You've got it exactly right.

[globalvillage]

1. That 'global test' thingie

is sounding pretty good right about now, too.

:banghead:

[MH1]

2. Yes, JK had it right, and continues to have it right.

It's just infuriating to watch * continue to screw things up as bad as he is.

[politicasista]

3. Agree

[Island Blue]

4. I think Bin Laden got exactly what he wanted after 9/11

Sure there were a lot of people killed, but I don't think that was his main goal. I don't think it would have mattered to him if one person had been killed or 10,000 people had been killed. IMO, his real goal was to make us (as a nation, as a whole) change our behavior and in that he succeeded. He succeeded by making us sacrifice our own freedoms, in exchange for what we are told is safety. As the days tick by, our freedom is eroded bit by bit, making bin Laden a very happy man I'm sure.

As far as why they hate us, I'd say the reasons go as far back (if not further) as the Crusades. I doubt it has much to do with our current freedoms, although I'm sure they see the devil in much of what we do as a society. It's difficult to defeat an enemy when he has such strong convictions - it's difficult to defeat an enemy when he is willing to strap a bomb to his body and blow himself up in the name of his beliefs.

I think the only real thing we have succeeded at in Iraq is to create more angry people, willing to do the biding of a mad man. (I mean Bin Laden, not Bush.) I agree 100% that we need to go about our business and live our lives as normally as possible. I think this is one reason FOX TV is so dangerous - they create an atmosphere of extreme anxiousness and encourage people to live in fear 24/7. (Whose side are they on anyway?) Sadly, I also think that the Bush Regime gains as much by keeping us in constant as does Bin Laden or FOX.

I also think that if we weren't so dependent on Middle Eastern oil and gas, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We are so dependent on the very countries that are breeding terrorists that we are powerless to help ourselves. Our current problem will not go away simply by ignoring it - we must INVENT our way out of this mess (I think I'm paraphrasing JK there if I remember correctly). Oh what could have been, and will be in 3 1/2 more years when people finally wake up a see that John Kerry was right all along!

[wisteria]

5. Your right!

It is obvious now that we need to rethink the handling of this war.The repubs aren't going to ever admit to being wrong even though deep down, I think many now realize this war isn't going well and wasn't planned correctly from the beginning. This mess could go on forever if people don't start speaking up, with the repubs saying the enemy is in it last throes and then when things go wrong claiming we are empowering the terrorists by not supporting the President. I feel John Kerry had it correct the whole time, but he was ridiculed for his opinions and plans. It makes me angry to think not many paid attention to what he was trying to tell us, they fell for the Bush rhetoric like naive children, not even taking the time to question what they were being told. I just hope people wake up soon and realize we need change.

[jillan]

6. I'm really scared...all * has done was to make the terrorists more angry

Think about this, we are over in Iraq killing thousands, permanently injuring 100's of thousands. Whole families have been killed, we used napalm... I saw on tv a teenage boy who was the only survivor of his family from a napalm attack..he was in a hospital, his arms were charred, his rib cage was exposed. It was pitiful, heart wrenching.
That same hospital was later bombed.

So tell me, why should a terrorist care if they come to the US and kill a few thousand more? Bush is making us very vulnerable to another attack. As Kerry said, it's just a matter of time.x( :-(

[MH1]

8. We've used napalm in Iraq?

Seriously, I didn't know that... I think I heard of it, but the source wasn't credible.

Do you have a link to a credible source? I think this is important - I think most people are horrified by the thought of napalm - the image of the little girl on the cover of Newsweek is unforgettable.

If we've used napalm in Iraq, I really think most people don't know that. Or they need to be reminded. Over and over.

[TayTay]

7. We went for the dramatic gesture in terrorism

The Neocons believe that America must secure it's place as the central country of the 21st Century. They believe that we can only do this by securing our position militarily as the mightiest nation on earth with the ability to control the air, the seas and the land with our superior (and extremely expensive) military. The attacks on 9/11 were a excuse for them to implement their plans.

A lot of the terrorism attacks are 'blowback' for past actions of the United States that were short-sighted and brutal. We disrupted the Middle East and toppled democratically elected governments in the Middle East in order to secure a steady supply of oil. We have supported the Saud family in Arabia even though the beliefs of that brutal and repressive regime are antitheical to America's own beliefs. We overthrew the democratically elected government in Iran and re-instated the Shah, who was a blood-thirsty pig who slaughtered his own people and instituted a dictatorship based on fear and repression. (So many more depressing examples that I just don't want to list.) We must, at some point in time, confront the Middle East as a place where human beings live, not just sub-human keepers of 'our oil' who can't be trusted with their own governance.

The Neocons (and PNAC) believe that the Iron Fist is the best way to show the rest of the world who is boss. Go back and read press accounts of the beginning of the Iraq War. The Neocons were absolutely amazed and flabbergasted that the Iraqis kept fighting after the initial 'Shock and Awe' phase of the war. (Which was designed to show that the US could not be opposed and would crush any faction that fought against it.) The Neocons are in the soup because their initial plan to have the US invasion of Iraq succeed quickly failed. The rest of the Middle East was not cowed into accepting whatever Uncle Sam wanted at all. Instead the opposite and horrific conclusion was reached. A lot of really despicable people have learned that they can fight back and create a permanent war.

The * Admin has screwed up so badly and stupidly in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East that it will take decades to repair the damage. Decades. Their policies have resulted in a more emboldened terrorist faction that is now engaged in a world-wide effort to wear down (with force of arms and with economic erosion) the West.

[ginnyinWI]

9. violence begets more violence.

Any student of history will tell you this is true. When are our leaders going to get it??

You have to be smart, and you have to have a good military for defense,you have to get along with your neighbors (which now includes everyone around the globe),and we have to invent our way out of this energy mess. JK would have tried to put us on that track. Get our energy in other ways through advances in alternative sources. Get the people and corporations to see that it is in their own self-interest to do so. Look to the future and try something better.

Our solutions will not be gained through military might(despite what the neo-cons seem to believe). They will be achieved through smart attention to science and technology.

[MH1]

10. Great program this morning on NPR - George Ellis

Ellis speaks at length on the subject of resolving conflicts. It is a great program.

From my blog:

Conflict resolution: George Ellis speaks on Kenosis

This morning I listened, as usual, to my local NPR station, WHYY, as I gathered my energy to meet the day. This morning the Speaking of Faith program, titled "Science and Hope", featured an interview with George Ellis, Professor of Applied Mathematics at the University of Cape Town, and recipient of the Templeton Prize "for progress toward research or discoveries about spiritual realities." I found the entire program interesting, but especially when he spoke about the concept of kenosis, a greek word I understood roughly to mean "emptying out." In Ellis' presentation he spoke of kenosis as a technique of emptying oneself of ego and selfish goals. This enables one to sacrifice and take risks for others and/or for the greater good.

The most compelling part of the program to me was when Ellis answered a question about how the concept of kenosis could be applied to a conflict like in Iraq. He gave an actual historical example that demonstrates that an ethical approach to military action can be successful. I highly recommend that you listen to at least that portion of the interview (it starts at about the 41:15 mark).

Listen to the interview with George Ellis here.
Read the notes and view links to many related resources here.

If you go to the post at my blog there are a few more embedded links, 'cause I don't know how to make pure html work in posts here at DU and it's too much hassle to change them all.

[ginnyinWI]

11. your links didn't work for me

do you have a web address you can give me instead? thanks!

[MH1]

12. Links

It's odd that they didn't work. Sorry 'bout that. Here's a couple naked urls:

My blog
http://freedomsfire.blogspot.com/

My blog post (direct link)
http://freedomsfire.blogspot.com/2005/07/conflict-resolution-george-ellis.html

The webpage for the program:
http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/scienceandhope/index.shtml

There is an audio link on the program webpage as well as my post; but I guess I should've mentioned, they require RealPlayer. (which I prefer head and shoulders over Windows Media Player anyway, so I usually don't think about it, but I should).