Presented to me under the heading "Get your facts straight"

[LittleClarkie]

http://www.bartcop.com/

Subject: John Kerry

Bart, you wrote:

> Kerry tried to concede while they were still counting Ohio ballots,
> but the Monkey had gone to sleep and Kerry didn't want to wake him.

> "Kerry" is synonymous with failure and quitting.
> "Kerry" is synonymous with cowardice and refusing to fight.
> "Kerry" is synonymous with running away when his country needed him.


I don't think it can be said any better than that.
Kerry was basically a wimp candidate that even so, should have won over a ass hole.

pattmarty

O-B-K-B.

I suggested that waiting until the votes were counted in Ohio would have done nothing. Once they were counted, Kerry still lost. You can't count suppressed votes. You can't count flipped votes. And you can't run around shouting "fraud" with nothing more than circumstantial evidence. We know our obsessive/compulsive John well enough to realize he was never coming out publicly without evidence he could take to court.

Not to mention the bizaare claim that Kerry didn't concede to Bush that night because he didn't want to wake the guy, after Edwards had come out and said they weren't done yet. Granted, they were done by the next morning, but what the hell?

Why would someone present to me the above quote as if it proved that what I was saying was false. That quote is nothing but opinion and snark.

Why to people have such a bug up their butt about Kerry. He fights like hell, and it's like he's Invisible Boy from "Mystery Men." Not so much actually invisible as ignored.

It's not just the Republicans who repeat untruths until folks accept them as fact. And we have the gall to call their faithful sheeple. We have our own lefty sheeple as well, too lazy to get their own facts and too easily lead by the right song and dance.

How depressing. Lefty freepers and lefty sheeple.

[TayTay]

1. There is nothing you can say to that

That person has a closed-mind. The only thing you can do with those people is waste your time. There is no answer that can change their minds and they are baiting you to answer something that they will promptly ignore. The answer is totally subjective and can't be 'argued' in any normal sense.

Remember, Kerry was supposedly toast in Nov 2003. Somehow, he survived. I think it was, as Whome and KG and others can attest, due to underlying hard work in laying a foundation of support that didn't become apparent to others until after Dr. Dean imploded in late Dec/ early Jan. And the Iowa primary, a completely smashing success was won with, what 39% of the vote. (I believe that means that 61% didnt vote for him.)

You will never get all the folks on this board to agree with you. Politics is a rough game and some people take losing as a personal affront that must never be forgiven. (No matter what.) My way of dealing with this (which admittedly is not for everyone) is to keep on doing what I do. The naysayers never reach the essential core of what I believe because they are not arguing from anything but bitterness. I have better things to do than hand-hold with the embittered. They have to find their own way out of the darkness within, it is not my responsibility to do that for them.

[LittleClarkie]

2. I got that from the producer of the Ed Schultz show as well

the "Kerry is toast" meme. I said I hoped he was wrong, and that he was supposed to be toast before, but Holmey (that's his name) just said, "God bless you, Kerryfan (my name on their board). He's done."

At least he was nice about it.

It's the presenting of opinion as fact that gets my goat. The Herald article that Common Dreams reprinted was nothing but opinion masquarading as fact, but since it was a flavor of koolade lefty freepers like, they swallowed it whole.

Human nature, I suppose. Rare is the person who keeps his/her mind open and let's the facts determine their opinion, rather than vice-versa.

Reminds me of how we got into Iraq via Bolton and the neocons. Letting one's opinion cherrypick the facts is why I wouldn't want a far left administration any more than I'd want another far right one like we have now in Bush. Neither seems to be able to pull back and look at the whole.

[TayTay]

3. And the guy on Ed Shultz could be wrong

NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING right now. It's too damn early. At this point in 2001:

9/11 hadn't happened yet.
Al Gore was the front-runner for the Dems.
George Bush was a weak little bastard who had managed to piss away control of the Senate by making Jim Jeffords angry.
Nobody had ever heard of Howard Dean.

Needless to say, a lot happened between Aug 2001 and the primaries. And a lot that we cannot possibly anticipate will happen between now and the next round of primaries. That is the only certainty. Everything else is just subjective opinion that really doesn't mean anything. It's too early.

And Kerry is not toast. That's silly. He is still considered one of only about 7 or 8 people in the United States who could mount a credible campaign for President of the United States. That's all you need to believe for the next few years. (I think there are only 6 people, but I am feeling generous tonight.) The rest will take care of itself in time. In the mean time, I think that Kerry is observing the old dictum that 'chance favors the prepared mind.'

[Noisy Democrat]

5. That's the truth

And I like the way you put that: "He is still considered one of only about 7 or 8 people in the United States who could mount a credible campaign for President of the United States."

That's the important point.

[TayTay]

7. Well, last time there were 10 Dem candidates

6 of which had no legitimate reason to think that they would prevail in the primaries. That left 4
Dr. Dean
John Kerry
John Edwards
Dick Gephart.

I anticipate about the same number next time. This far out, the field looks like baseball in the spring, all the teams seem to have a chance. But pretty soon, the credible people who can mount a serious campaign separate from the pack. Mr. Kerry is likely to be one of those people.

[Noisy Democrat]

4. The pundits say he's toast

But meanwhile they keep writing articles about how no one talks about him anymore. And Hillary seems to think he's a threat.

I think it's hard to say. Kerry's an unusual politician and these are unusual times. I most definitely am not writing him off any time soon.

[LittleClarkie]

6. I sure see a president when I look at him

Sometimes I wonder if it's because he was my first real candidate. I have a strong emotional attachment to him. Sometimes I think part of that is because he strongly reminds me of my dad, who was also Navy and an honorable man.

But aside from that, he's still one of the most qualified candidates we've got.

Hey, Noisy Dem, it's Kerrycrat, btw. Hiya.

[Noisy Democrat]

11. Oh hi

Kerrycrat! Nice to see you. My god, we need a scorecard to keep track of all the pseuds. I've got 3 or 4 going -- NoisyDem for my political posts, Joanna Wolff for vid-making (the Kerry/Edwards vid is signed that way), and my real name appears in places like KerryOnIraqWar. And there are others I'm not telling. *EG*

[LittleClarkie]

13. Did you create KerryOnIraqWar?

I still send people over there when they throw the Iraq flip flop crap at me.

[Noisy Democrat]

14. Cool!

Yes, that's my site. I don't know diddly about HTML, so my best friend fortunately knocked himself out to do the site design, layout and programming; I did the research and wrote all the content. I decided to leave it up after the election, and lately I've been thinking that if I can find time (ha!) I'd like to start updating again with info about the DSM, Kerry's call for no permanent bases in Iraq, etc. And think more about how to boil JK's positions down to bumper-sticker size (though I did get one flyer up there that pretty well lays out his main points on one sheet of paper, at least).

I'm glad you like it!

[LittleClarkie]

18. I printed out several of your essays and took them to Kerry HQ.

I loved the way you took on each point separately. I figured they would be good for people canvassing who didn't know how to answer the flip flop questions.

And then, one time, an environmentalist came in freaking out that Kerry wasn't mentioning the environment enough. One of the folks at HQ got her calmed down, and I heard her say that part of the problem with trying to campaign for the guy was that she didn't understand his foreign policy positions, esp. on Iraq. Once again, www.kerryoniraqwar.com for all your Kerry on Iraq needs.

It was quite handy. At least I hope it was. I would present it, hoping people would use it.

[Noisy Democrat]

16. p.s.

I'm thinking very fondly of my best friend and how much he put into that site, just now, and I have to say that I was really blown away with how he set up the Video section -- the rebuttal to the Flipper video. All I did was show him that idiot video and tell him I wanted to somehow tear it apart and explain what Kerry really said, clip by clip, and it seemed like just by the next day that he'd cut the whole thing into clips and done this beautiful layout where you can click on any clip to play it, and he said, "All you have to do is give me the text of what Kerry really said and whatever you want to say, and I'll put them in here, and voila!" To my eyes, he's a webmaking miracle worker. Anyway, I wouldn't want to take credit for making it all beautiful like that. I researched Kerry's actual statements and wrote the text, and that's it. :)

[LittleClarkie]

19. It was nifty even in its primative state

I printed out all your essays and used them when I could.

[Noisy Democrat]

12. p.s.

And I know what you mean. JK is still the most presidential politician out there, and something about him just gives you the feeling that he's far from being out of the running. There's more to him than many pundits seem to realize.

[whometense]

15. If it helps,

he's been written off by the Boston pundits for his entire career. And yet somehow, people keep voting for him. Funny that.

[Noisy Democrat]

17. LOL

That reminds me, when I was feeling comforted by signs that JK may run again, I ran across a distressing column by the obsessive Kerry-basher Mickey Kaus, who wrote something like, "John Kerry faces not only defeat but complete humiliation in the New Hampshire primary." He was just smacking his lips over the idea that JK would finally be smacked down. For about one minute I was thinking, "What? I know he thinks JK has no chance in 2008, but already he's talking about specific primaries?" Then I looked at the date and realized he wrote it sometime in December 2003 or beginning of 2004.

[TayTay]

20. That is so true.

I used to hear description of Kerry as the 'guy who wouldn't stay down' after he took a hit. He was like one of those blow-up toys that you had that were filled with sand on the bottom. You could hit them and they would pop back up. That's Kerry.

[elshiva]

8. Ugh, stopped reading bartcop after the election.

Defeatism and Dem bashing is not getting us anywhere.

[LittleClarkie]

9. And the pink tutus have got to go

Indeed, it's seems to be more fun for some to have a go at Democrats rather than do something constructive.

[elshiva]

10. I hate the pink tutus.

1. It is wrong. Those guys are NOT weak on opposition.

2. It is homophobic and sexist. Har fricking har women/gaymen=weak

3. Men who REALLY wear pink tutus in public are my heroes. It takes courage to crossdress in a homophobic society

[BlueIris]

21. There were so many things WRONG with that list.

GOD. WHY?