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Trying to locate any article from when Kerry said Bush rushed to war even

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 11:56 AM
Original message
Trying to locate any article from when Kerry said Bush rushed to war even
as France and Germany were working to coerce Saddam into resigning peacefully before Bush invaded.

A Pakistani paper reported this yesterday, but, I remember hearing it first from Kerry right after the war started, and he was vilified for saying it.

He said it a number of times over the campaign, and I can't find one darn thing when I google. It is very strange, since there were even more recent reports about Richard Branson offering his plane to Saddam to escort him to his asylum destination...yet Google is giving me NOTHING on this, so far.
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Noisy Democrat Donating Member (799 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Could you be more specific?
What exactly are you looking for? I can't quite follow it. Are you saying you want to find a quote where Kerry criticized Bush for rushing to war? There's a ton. He warned him not to do it, and he criticized him for doing it. Look on my site, http://www.kerryoniraqwar.com There are several places to look for quotes: the best might be to go to the Video section, where I debunked the GOP's "Flipper" video; that has lots of quotes. You can also look in Q&A, where it goes into more detail about what Kerry said on specific questions.

If you're looking for a place where Kerry specifically said something like "The president shouldn't have rushed to war while France and Germany were pressuring Saddam to resign peacefully," I don't believe there's any such quote. At least, I never saw it in the many hours I spent digging up Kerry's statements on Iraq and poring over it. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but this is the first I've heard of it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well, I first heard about it FROM Kerry right after the war started.
The Repubs mocked him as delusional at the time.

The story was posted here at DU at various times during the campaign, and I always commented on those threads.

I am having a devil of a time locating ANY stories from then even without Kerry's comments.
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Noisy Democrat Donating Member (799 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Right, but what was "it"
That's the part I'm not getting. You're saying Kerry *specifically* made a statement, soon after the war started, in which he talked about how France and Germany had been working hard to get Saddam to back down peacefully? Not just general criticism of the rush to war, but that specific claim? I'll check the transcripts of Kerry speeches and interviews that I have from that time period -- I bought quite a few from LexisNexis when I was building the site -- and see if I can find anything.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Russia was on it, too. They had Saddam close to agreeing to leave.
In fact, it was supposed to be so close that they were just working out the logistics of leaving, including the use of Branson's jet, although Branson was not mentioned by Kerry. The Branson involvement only came to light last Dec.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hmmm, Noisy Democrats site
There was the NY Times article back in Sept. 2002 http://www.johnmccrory.com/wrote.asp?this=255 That said what should be done. (And this was pre-vote.)


I am searching my archives, but not coming up with much.

I used the terms
Kerry
Iraq
Saddam
Resign
Inspectors

Not coming up with a lot.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm adding France, Chirac, Germany and Schroeder and getting nada, too.
Yet that seems impossible because there was definitely an ongoing story about that and it was posted here at DU a number of times.

Just amazing that NOTHING is coming up in a search now. There are others commenting on the Pakistan story and saying they remember the story at the time, twithout remembering the specifics.

The way I even heard the story at all was from Kerry. Granted, back then, few followed his words as closely as I did.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I will keep trying, but I'm not getting anything
at the moment from the Archives.

Sorry.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I didn't find what you were looking for, but found a piece of history
that left me cold. I recommend that you all look through this old Spiegel article from March 2003. It details the last few days of diplomacy before the Iraq War. I hate to say it, but I feel like France and Germany were the good guys, and the U.S. were the bad guys. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. Looking at the disaster Iraq is today, I'd go even further and say France and Germany were trying to be good friends to the U.S., trying to prevent us from making one of the biggest mistakes of our history. Like an intervention, BEGGING the U.S. to go back to the Betty Ford Clinic (U.N.) and STAY there before it was too late and we hit rock bottom. Instead of heeding their warnings, the Bush people were like the out of control drunk spewing insults and abusing the friends who were only trying to help.

Here's the link along with a couple of excerpts:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,239589,00.html

Whether the name of the Council president is Pleuger or Traoré doesn't make a lot of difference, neither within the Council nor on the outside. Out there in New York, in the U.S., the United Nations has about as much prestige as a student parliament. In the White House they talk of the U.N. as a "debating society." On one of the popular TV late shows, the last meeting of the Security Council was portrayed as a round table of cheese-eating expense account types. Nevertheless, the mobile units of all the major American TV networks are parked in front of the U.N. building. The Security Council makes a good backdrop for special broadcasts with titles like "Showdown: Iraq."

And it produces the sort of material from which spy films are made. An NSA (U.S. National Security Agency) memorandum was passed along to the British publication, Observer. In it the head of a department indicates that the undecided M-6 are to be kept under surveillance. Information is to be obtained that would "give U.S. politicians an advantage in achieving their goals or avoid any surprises."

Nobody denies the report; nobody protests. "It is flattering to be monitored by the CIA," says one of the ambassadors affected by it. "You have to be pretty naïve to be surprised," says the representative from Pakistan. In the German mission to the U.N., Room 1111 is "bugproof." There are no windows and it is as quiet as an Ikea sauna. That is where the Germans and the French met for their discussions. It's like the Cold War.



Negroponte exemplifies the value his government places in the U.N.. Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld consider the U.N. an administrative jungle they will never find their way out of. In the beginning George W. Bush had listened to Secretary of State Powell who advised him they shouldn't do anything without the U.N.. Bush probably does not believe that anymore.

"John Negroponte is a typical diplomat. He's nothing like Richard Holbrooke, his predecessor, who was unable to pass up a photo opportunity. He prefers to remain in the background," Robert Wood, his spokesman says, and after a short pause, "And that's the way it ought to be."

His boss is now sitting somewhere upstairs in the building, exactly where, Robert Wood is not at liberty to say "for security reasons." Robert Wood has served at American embassies in Africa, Latin America, and Asia; he has now been here for one-and-a-half years; in another year and a half he will be leaving again, preferably for NATO, another "hot seat," he says.

When he speaks about the U.N., he does so only in the third person, as though talking about something strange, something he doesn't know what to make of. "The U.N. has to watch out it doesn't become superfluous now," Robert Wood says. "Above all our European, uh, friends are not aware what's at stake. Look, the French foreign minister probably felt very good after his appearance here. He was applauded. But he didn't understand that he only strengthened Saddam Hussein. Our Secretary of State went back to Washington with the feeling that nobody was listening to him. Yet he had very good arguments."

Wood reaches down into one of the big cardboard boxes next to his chair and takes out a CD-ROM. "Take this along, it's all on there," Wood says. "Please do."

On the CD-ROM it says, "Iraq - the failure of disarmament." It contains the pictures that Colin Powell showed the Security Council on February 5th. That was more than a month ago.

Has it already been decided there will be war? "If in the next two or three days we see that Saddam Hussein really intends to disarm, really and honestly, yes, then there would be no need to wage a war. But under his regime there will be no disarmament. We are more and more convinced of it."



The week of the diplomats has come to an end. Now it is the turn of George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, Tommy Franks, and perhaps of Saddam Hussein, to decide about war.

Goodbye, New York.

Good morning, Vietnam.



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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. This is REALLY bugging me. I know Kerry talked about this early in the war
and during the campaign. I posted about it many times whenever it came up. Now, I can't even find my own posts in the archives here that mention it at all. I've only found one from last July but none from the previous two years.

This is very odd. And still no find about Richard Branson's involvement, even though it was fairly well publicized last December when that part of the story came out. and it was discussed here at DU.
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Noisy Democrat Donating Member (799 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Could you be more specific?
I have piles of Kerry materials that I collected to make www.kerryoniraqwar.com but I don't recall ever seeing him specifically talk about France and Germany working on getting Saddam to back down. Is that the particular thing you're looking for? Or something else?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Yes, That's it. He said that he knew that Saddam was close to agreeing to
leave Iraq peacefully. That is one of the reasons that Kerry gave regarding Bush's rush to war.

People underestimate Kerry's close relationship with Annan and other world leaders. They are as strong as any, including Clinton. In fact, Annan went to school with Teresa, who later also worked at the UN as an interpreter.

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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Interesting stuff.
Thanks for getting JK's back with the links on the Gary Hart thread on Huffington. I tried to post more but it didn't go through.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. It was my pleasure to do so, KG (Huff Post)
And luckily, I had a quick resource in both your new and old blogs to defend Kerry. It's important not just to argue, but to have documentation for what you are saying. That's the only way you can convince people. Or at least to show that there are people in the blogosphere who think highly of JK and are willing to make an effort to defend him until the end . . .

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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. Have you tried the Kerry Reference Library?
http://kerrylibrary.invisionzone.com/

There are sections on Bush's Foreign Policy which is primarily Iraq, a smaller section on Kerry and foreign policy, and a section with interviews with Kerry. There's a lot of material to wade through but there is hope that you will be able to find Kerry's statement there.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I tried it a bunch of times
today and can't get it to load. I was going to email you to see if it had been taken down.
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Still up
The whole site (everything from invisionzone) was down at one point late in the week. Unfortunately this happens periodically
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. I found this
It was from Kerry's interview on Hardball in fall 2003.

MATTHEWS: To try sharpen your position so we all come out of this room knowing your position. Had you been president earlier this year when they went up against the blank-the stonewall at the U.N.. and the U.N., and the Security Council, the Russians and the French, did not go along with the war, what would you have done differently than the president did? At that point, would you have said another two months I’ll argue with you guys? I’ll try to hold a carrot or a stick out to you and the French and try to get them to board? Or would you have finally said, I’m tired of waiting for the French. We’re going alone in our national interest.

What would you have done?

KERRY: I would have done exactly what I said at the time, which is we should have pursued more diplomacy at the time to exhaust the remedies. And Chris...

MATTHEWS: It’s now October. How-would you still be exhausting the remedies now?

KERRY: Why not?

MATTHEWS: OK. That’s a position. I didn’t know you would go this long.

KERRY: Why not?

MATTHEWS: Would you have gone all these months?

KERRY: Why not? Absolutely. It’s cool in the fall as much as it is in the spring.

MATTHEWS: So you would have waited at least a year.

KERRY: I would have done-no, Chris, I would have done what was necessary to know that you had exhausted the available remedies with the French and the Russians.

MATTHEWS: The French said this week they will not send troop or spend a dollar in Iraq. It’s clear the French don’t go along with this war.

KERRY: And I understand why they won’t right now. And I’m not going to give them a veto, Chris. And I wouldn’t have given them a veto then.

But I talked to Kofi Annan on the Sunday before the president decided to go to war. And I knew at that moment in time that the Russians and the French were prepared to, in fact, make a further offer. And the administration, in fact, informed Kofi Annan, Sorry, the time for diplomacy is over.

Had I been president of the United States, I would have explored what those possibilities were.

http://kerrylibrary.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=17&st=0
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thanks...that is part of the story.
I heard him say more a number of times with my own two ears, but, sure as heck can't find a damn thing, even though it was discussed here at DU at the time.
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Your welcome
I'm still looking, we will prevail. :patriot:
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Noisy Democrat Donating Member (799 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-05 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Interesting!!
Thanks for posting that!
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