Not directly directed to JK but McCain is finished for me after that

[Mass]

I guess McCain needs somebody to cheat in his favor in the 2008 election.

It is more and more clear that he is not our friend.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1128678037307920.xml&coll=2

McCain backs Blackwell's governor bid
Friday, October 07, 2005
Sandy Theis
Plain Dealer Bureau Chief

Columbus- Ken Blackwell's campaign for Ohio governor picked up a major national endorsement Thursday from U.S. Sen. John McCain, an Arizona Republican and likely presidential contender in 2008.

McCain cited Secretary of State Blackwell's independence and candor among the key reasons for his support.

...

[TayTay]

1. I'm not surprised. McCain thinks he can run in '08

and he is locking up his 'supporters.' Blackwell would turn on McCain in a New York minute if he thought it could help Blackwell.

McCain is no longer trusted at all. He can b useful in passing some legislation, but I don't trust him to either keep his word or to have any positions that are honorable and that reflect any inner core. (I no llonger think there is an inner core, just 'whatever works.')

[whometense]

2. I think we should all do our bit

to help spread this story around. I think people ought to know how much of a "maverick" he really is - NOT. I'm going to put it on my blog.

[BlueIris]

12. I'll try to get it onto the blog I'm working with, too.

It's a collaborative site, though, and the administrators discourage overt bashing of "good" Republicans like McCain. They're also trying to maintain the appearance of neutrality, so terms like "neocon" are also verboten. But I'll see if I can work something out.

[jillan]

3. Hey that's my senator you are talking about!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

And he's the better of the two!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Mass]

4. I really feel sorry for you

:cry: but next year, you have a chance to improve 50 % of your senators.
And then :party:

[MH1]

5. I'm sorry for you too.

:cry:

EXCEPT that you get to live in AZ! :-) I lived in SE AZ for awhile... I miss it...and considering what senators (gag) we have in PA...

[jillan]

6. you have Specter, right? He's not too bad.

Who else?

[jillan]

8. Santorum?! You have Santorum?

That's worse than Kyl and McCain together!:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[MH1]

10. Sanscrotum is in a class by himself.

A very, very low class.

And as I replied to Mass - Saying "Specter isn't so bad" may be true in context but only shows how bad things have gotten.

[globalvillage]

11. Casey's poll numbers are up.

Last polls he was leading Santorum by 14%. Now 18%.
We won't have to put up with that asshole Santorm much longer.
Hope is on the way.

[Mass]

7. Feel sorry for you too - Santorum is enough by itself

and you cant really count on Specter

[MH1]

9. Yep.

Saying "Specter isn't so bad" may be true in context but only shows how bad things have gotten.

[TheDonkey]

13. I hope he doesn't get the nom because a lot of Dems will vote for him

and independents even though he talks a good game, he's still a partisian republican.

[TayTay]

15. Maybe, but he will be 72 in 2008.

That would make him really really old to run for a major party nomination. McCain has a lot of enemies in the Rethug party and his cozying up to Bush won't help him with the wingnuts. I think the chances he will run are 40-60 right now.

The oldest elected PRez in US history was Reagan. He was 69 when he was elected.

[Island Blue]

20. I agree, I think he will be to old to run in '08

Besides, even if he did run, the neo-cons would stab him in the back so the candidate of their choosing would be the nominee. I think he is being badly used by the powers that be at the moment, and it's a shame that he's allowing it to happen because he could have done right by the American people (even as a Republican). I don't think it speaks well of his judgment (or how he would perform if he were president) that he's allowed himself to be used and abused.

[Vektor]

14. I think he is becoming senile.

Seriously. Just losing it.

[jillan]

16. And he whistles when he talks.

It drives me crazy! What is that sound anyway?

[whometense]

17. It's a possibility.

A year's worth of hugging up to soul-sucking evil can really take it out of a guy.

You have to wonder what went through Kerry's mind when he heard this.

[TayTay]

18. I think Kerry wold work with McCain again professionally

because sometimes you can't be choosy who your allies are, especially when you are in the minority. But I don't see Kerry and McCain ever being the team they used to be. I just don't. I don't trust McCain anymore, and, really, what did he ever do personally to me? Kerry has lots of reasons to distrust the guy and suspect him of political posturing.

[JI7]

21. i think Kerry is able to deal with that

he knows not to take things too personally when it comes to politics.

but i do think he felt it was different with McCain and while he accepted McCain would support Bush since they are in the same party he never thought McCain would have said some of the things he said, especially the stuff about how they were never friends.

i think he has now come to accept what McCain is like as he does with other Republicans and will work with him to try to get what he supports passed, but he wont view the relationship as any more than that.

[JI7]

19. and continuing on with that

can't say i am surprised anymore though.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1836636

[beachmom]

22. I don't mind McCain as a senator, especially when he's almost

a dissenter voice within his own party on many issues. As far as Kerry and McCain go, I think Truman said it best, "if you want a friend in Washington, get yourself a dog". If I recall, Kerry did just that this year!! As far as McCain for president, I couldn't vote for him simply on the grounds that he is way too hawkish. I think he's the type who might start 3 new wars. But I don't hate him like you guys do. There are so many worse characters in Washington from the Right. He's only a big deal now because of '08 talk, and his eternal presence on all the Sunday talk shows.

So he's backing candidates and collecting favors. And yes, from the awful Blackwell, no less, but it's his party. He is a right of center Republican who doesn't like to cater to special interests. That's where liberals are seduced, but if they took the time to understand his views, they would find him impossible to vote for. Don't worry, under the glare of a presidential campaign, the facts will come out. (I mean, us Dems actually DO read, so I don't see many of them falling for lies like Saddam Hussein is connected to 9/11 like so many Bush voters did last year).

[karynnj]

23. I don't think I hate him, it's more a reaction to my perception that

he is SO not what he's cracked up to be. He does cater to special interests - his special interests, but then gets good press when he talks about the damage that catering to special interest.

For example, he skirted McCain / Feingold at the beginning of this year. He received $200,000 from cablevision, AS HE MOVED TO SUPPORT LEGISLATION they wanted that would change the way cable pricing was done. (Consumer groups are against it) The money was put into a 527 for campaign fiance reform. This 527 really just talks about what McCain is doing in a positive way. (Imagine the flack Kerry would have gotten if he set Kids First up this way.)

His involvement as one of the Keating 5 was not a minor mistake that he can say he learned from - it was unprincipled, unethical and innocent people were hurt. His involvement in McCain/Feingold was likely his mea culpa for that. (In fact, there was a stronger clean campaign bill that Kerry/Wellstone wanted.) There were more Democrats than Republicans wanting campaign finance reform. It needed Republican support and McCain needed it. It helped his reputation enormously.

Similarly now, he is getting love letters in the press because of the torture amendment. After doing nothing for about 2 1/2 years, he pushes this when Bush is losing power. He was in the moral position to speak up and say we can't do this. Forcing a policy change then could have avoided the loss of prestige this country suffered. He also had something Bush wanted at that point - his support. Instead of using this leverage to push Bush to do the right thing, he either traded his support for a promise on 2008 or for nothing (to blindly support his party because it was his party.)

If it was the former, he is an egotistical vain politician, not a statesman. If it was the the latter, he is the very opposite of a maverick, a party soldier just following orders. A third possibility exists - that he didn't really think the US needed to follow international law and that torture was wrong under all circumstances. He still doesn't appear to understand Kerry's revolsion that US soldiers (including himself) were told to do things that violated international law and noral law. McCain is pushing this week amendment now, when it is politically easy to do and will give him support from moderate (and even some liberal) voters.

So, it may be that in terms of press treatment, he is the opposite of Kerry. Everything Kerry does and says is seen through a skeptical filter. Nothing is ever just accepted at face value. With McCain, even when there are questions that should be asked (like why would it take over 2 years for a POW tortured in VN to react, when others like Kerry called for Rumsfeld to resign immediately.) they never are and the press questions nothing.

So, my perceived dislike is colored by a feeling that Kerry was treated unfairly and McCain is covered with almost no attempt to question the facade he presents to the world. (In fact, the only thing that keeps me from thinking he is a total fake is that Kerry found something real there. )

[TayTay]

24. I don't hate McCain, per se, but I am deeply disappointed in him

He worked well with Kerry on a number of good bills. It was a very nice Yin/Yang sort of relationship. McCain has spoken out repeatedly against government waste and about the need for the government to be honest in their accounting and spending. That did nicely dovetail with Kery's concern for same. This was an instance when Liberal and Conservative could actual find common ground and get things done by listening to each other's concerns and prime reasons for supporting something.

My disagreement with McCain is on the point of actively working against what he worked for , for many years, with Kerry. His active support of Bush, after the BFEE so completely trashed him on personal grounds in 2000, showed me that he is a purely political creature who doesn't have the core convictions he claims to have. It's all negotiable and it's all fluid and mutable. What I liked in terms of crafting legislation, I detest in terms of his behavior in a political race.

I want McCain to have a spine all the time, not just when it looks good in the papers. And I want him to value his friendships, not abandon them because it's poltiical expedient to do so. He is not what he claims to be. I resent that deeply.

[jillan]

25. I have to reply to this -

First - he does NOTHING for this state. You never read about him in our papers, or here him on the radio. We even get Kyl printed almost weekly. The only way I can find out about what McCain is doing for the people that voted for him, is when I go to his website.

Second - he is Washington hack. I believe that maybe McCain does have his heart in the right place, but he will go against it to stay with his party. He will vote against his best interests. He will publicly kiss a man that called his POW story a lie, and work for people that said he had an illegitimate black baby.
(McCain and his wife Cindy adopted a baby from a 3rd world country)

And when Kerry was getting attacked for his service, McCain was the one person that should have stood up and told his party to stop being so disrespectful to our Veterans, especially during a time of war....
but no- he didn't want to upset his party.

I have NO respect for a person that cannot be true to their heart.

[beachmom]

26. As far as his home state goes, you're the authority, Pirhana, and

I can't comment on that.

But I guess I like how Tay Tay put it. He has a part time spine. Yes, he's the media darling, and what Karynnj said rings true -- how Kerry never gets a break, and McCain ALWAYS does. But I'll take a part time spine from a Republican over NO spine. The Dems have no power so we rely on senators like McCain, Warner (my senator)*, Hagel and Voinovich to occasionally rebel and say something sane amid the insanity. When Dems say something nobody notices, or they just dismiss it as partisanship, but when a Republican says something, the media listens. Sure it's unfair, but it's all we've got until the next election. The thing is is that there are two ways of looking at all of this -- partisan and just plain what's good for the country. And, sorry, guys -- that McCain torture amendment, in defiance of the WH, was good for the country. So you don't like the guy and would never vote for him. Fine. But he did a good thing the other day, and yes he waited too long, but he's doing it now, unlike * who NEVER corrects his errors and omissions. I'm an American first, then a Democrat, and I like that a loud, almost unanimous voice in the U.S. Senate said no to torture, and we have John McCain (and some brave military personnel who came forward in the first place) to thank for that.


* as far as Allen, aka Senator Barfbag is concerned, I would argue that I really only have ONE senator. Barfbag is less than useless for the people of Virginia.

[karynnj]

27. You are totally right - it is important for the Senate to be on record

that torture is wrong. It's also tre that if, say Durbin (a co-sponsor) had written the same piece of legislation, the partisan Senate would have defeated it.

I do understand that the Democrats need to work with the moderate Republicans because otherwise they could pass nothing. Rven if the numbers improve, they need to reach out to Republicans to end this obnoxious totally partisan behavior.

By votes alone, McCain (as well as Snowe, Collins, Chaffee, Spector, and Warner) is better than the average Republican. (In fact even Coleman sometimes breaks ranks - and it seems Santorum is in enough trouble that he now is.) I admire the fact that Kerry can obviously put personal feelings (which he has to have) aside and work with McCain.

My rant was a reaction to the constant media reaction to McCain - best exemplified by Mathews saying if corruption is seem as the big issue and we need an anti-corruption person who would it be, leading to his guests racing to see who could say McCain fastest. (At points like that, OI wish I knew how to vocalize a "Dean" scream.)

[jillan]

28. Your right that he is more moderate than most, and the anti-torture

bill was a good thing. Actually a great thing.

I would take McCain over my other senator anyday.

My disappointments are greater than my approval, that's all.

Now if he would have ran as Kerry's running mate, his approval rating with me would have been a whole lot higher. It never would have happened, but it would have been great for the country.