KOs again.

[TayTay]

He promoted the Yepson story about KErry being a good nominee again to the front page and then dissed him. I posted that this was another slam against Kerry on KOS, that means another donation to the 'Lanky Yankee.'

Anybody else want to go to Kos and post this as well.

The more the put up the negatives, the more money I send.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/10/11/132356/99

[Mass]

1. kos is definitively an idiot - he needs his regular anti-Kerry posts

as a fix. This reinforces his sensation of power.

[blm]

2. Kos is not exactly a crack historian. He doesn't even realize that most of

what he knows about the Bush family and their cronies came from Kerry's work - usually accomplished without other Dem lawmakers' help - but don't expect Kos to be smart enough to figure that out.

He's a fairly centrist Dem who reins in lefties more with his energy than with his command of historic facts.

[TayTay]

3. I think he's just mean.

He was lucky to have a blog up when blog started to take off. Half his readers stay fro a while, then get fed up with his antics and leave. He is going to be publishing a book soon and I don't plan on reading it. I have no intention of reading about how to do grassroots politicking from someone who manages to piss off so many. I don't think he knows what he is talking about.

[ginnyinWI]

4. pretty sickening over there

:(
A lot of closed minds and poor memories around there! They are living in a reality of their own making.

[TayTay]

5. I used to get upset

But now, I just send in a donation everytime he frontpages an anti-Kerry story. Makes me feel all better.

[whometense]

6. On the up-side,

Yepsen's article was very fair, and I was glad to read it - even if directed to it by the self-absorbed and egomaniacal Kos.

[ginnyinWI]

9. I loved your response over there, whome

I can't post today because I just changed my ID to match the one here. I did post as the "old" me once, tho'.

[whometense]

13. Oh, thanks!

I want to respond to more of those idiots, but it seems like a wasted effort. There's so much self-serving twisting of the truth, so much kissing of Kos's ring, that it makes me ill.

The one thing that's great about a thread like that (was it you who said this earlier?) is that it brings out the Kerry defenders who normally just lurk. It's interesting (and very cool) that the pro-Kerry posts almost always have more positive ratings than the others.

[ginnyinWI]

65. I think it was beachmom.

But it's not a waste of time, either on Kos or DU, to speak up for Kerry--because it does encourage the other Kerry supporters out there to know they aren't the only ones. They may not be posting, but they're listening. A lot of people don't want to mud-wrestle with the haters. Sometimes I have what it takes to do it, and sometimes I just don't.

As for the haters, we won't convince them and just have to let it roll off our backs.

[beachmom]

7. I learned to just post a comment that invites no argument

Oh yeah, and you have to reply to another comment -- this puts your comment closer to the top!! I posted something really nice about Kerry, that wasn't confrontational. The only reason I do, is that there may be a casual lurker who is reading all the comments, and they need to know that there are people who really like Kerry still out there. I read through the rest of the comments, and I read absolutely nothing new. It was like a broken record. The best were the ones who said that he really was a "conservative". Ha! That was funny. A lot of those people there seem to think that style matters more than substance. Because Kerry is often quite formal, they assume he's a conservative, when his voting record has been a non-stop NO to the * administration since Jan. 20th. It's also funny how these "kids" talk about how ignorant * voters are or American voters are, yet they don't seem to know much of anything about the candidate they voted for last year.

But here's another interesting thing. Sometimes you will read some of the most eloquent defenses of Kerry out of a thread like this one. Someone recounts a story of seeing him or something like that. To find a gem of a story like that makes it worth plodding through the stupid riff raff mostly written on dailykos. Nothing so far on this thread. I think most Kerry supporters have given up on dailykos. It really is a cult, where if you don't agree with everything Kos and Armando say, you're a "dupe for BushCo", and then sworn at. Now if only the MSM would get wise that even LEFTIES hate dailykos, and even poor Barack Obama is being bashed there . . . Kos is pure ego, and, IMHO, is bad for the Democratic party.

[beachmom]

8. Does Kos ID Blue387 frequent here?

I was patient and waded through the filth, the sarcasm, the misinformation, the rehashing of rehashments, and I found an AWESOME comment at the end of the Kos thread. Just wondering if the poster there, posts here. Because it was beautiful (it starts slowly, and then starts gushing)!!!

I am posting it in full (so you don't have to give that awful site another hit, or vote):

Can we please stop bashing John Kerry? (none / 0)

Pretty please? With Splenda on top?

While we're at it, can we please stop attacking Mary Beth Cahill and Bob Shrum? They are loyal Democrats who did the best they could.

I'm reading the comments and I ask everyone: what would you want Kerry to have done? March over to the SBVT HQ and strangle John O'Neill?

I love Kerry and I admit, he has problems. Yes, he ran a bad campaign. Yes, he lost to Bush and lost votes among women and Latinos. Yes, he was torpedoed by the SBVT. But, facing a wartime president with an advantage in fundraising, grassroots/organization and a loyal base, John Kerry would have problems. I like Dean, Clark and Edwards but I don't believe any other Democrat would have done better than Kerry in 2004: Howard Dean's candor would have hurt him like John McCain while John Edwards had charm and charisma mixed with economic populism but I don't think he could have stood up to Republican scrutiny. Wesley Clark was politically inexperienced when the nation wanted - craved, desired, etc. - strong leadership in uncertain times. People found that strong leadership in George W. Bush's words "You may not agree with what I stand for, but you know whay I believe" - the strong, nuturing father figure who would protect the country, etc.

And if you think you can run a better campaign than John Kerry, do what I plan to do: run for office. I plan to run for Congress in New York; my only excuse for not running tomorrow is my age since I'm only 20.

I agree with this diary: a new, improved John Kerry can win in 2008 if only we at Daily Kos would let him. I recommend hiring top-rate talent who recognize how the Republicans are building up a grassroots to win in the long term. Maybe we can hire Michael Whouley and David Axelrod for his campaign, and torpedo the SBVT once and for all.

I agree with Barack Obama - we've got to be a united force and I cannot tolerate people chewing on other Democrats and not chewing on the people that really deserve to be chewed: Karl Rove, the RNC and their strategy of aggressive grassroots/organization. For example, the Washington Times reported the RNC has/had over 6million email addresses in its database.

Brad Carson wrote last year in New Republic arguing that we Democrats lost because people do not like the general direction of popular culture and will vote for anyone - and I mean anyone - who will attempt/promise to change it. That is why Joe Lieberman is popular and that is why Brad Carson lost to (ugh!) Tom Coburn. Insert Thomas Frank and Kansas here.

Earlier this year, I wrote a defense of Kerry:

I support John Kerry in 2008. He speaks to my beliefs and, with a few changes, should run. I liked his proposal for health care, I would love a multilateral foreign policy, I would like a president who can pronounce "nuclear" and a president who doesn't think in black and white. I believe he is a man of purpose and conviction, to fight for what he believed was right for America and not for himself. He joined when he didn't have to, he served in Vietnam when he didn't have to, he protested the war as part of the VVAW because he was always against the war. He didn't have to run for Congress or lieutenant governor or the Senate. He did it because he wanted the best for America and not something for political convenience or for the base. And I hate it when people say he is dull or stiff or uncharismatic when, in person, he is charismatic and charming. Look at how he won Iowa and New Hampshire voters with retail politics as chronicled by Walter Shapiro who followed him around for a year. Look at how Bill Weld considered Kerry strong and charming.

Kerry is a fighter. In October 2003, his campaign was dead in the water with Howard Dean about to waltz to the nomination and the convention in Boston. But Kerry changed, fixed things, dumped some things and came back stronger. By October 2004, Kerry was tied with Bush. I think had he run a better campaign and been stronger, he would have won. And we would be looking at Vice President Edwards and SecDef Wesley Clark.

Plus, I like him since I have some things in common: a lonely childhood with an mother whose feet never touched the ground, a distant father son who grew up as a loner with few friends who entered politics with a keen interest in foreign policy...as a 22 year old kid, had the wisdom of old age and knew what we were getting into in Vietnam. words still echo today as an eerily prescient reminder of this president and Iraq.

He was inspired by John F. Kennedy to place your country over yourself in his call to duty and public service, to aspire and achieve something greater than the next tax cut or war. As a New Yorker, I even forgive Kerry for supporting the Red Sox....Why can't I support someone who shares my ideas, beliefs and values? If we could turn John Kerry into Jed Bartlet...

I wish the other Democrats running or planning to run in 2008 the best. But I believe John Kerry has the strength, honor and integrity to be president. And that's why I intend to vote for John Kerry in 2008. Period.

I also like Russ Feingold.


"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." - Frederick Douglass

by Blue387 on Tue Oct 11, 2005 at 11:58:59 AM PDT
< Reply to This | none1: Unproductive2: Marginal3: Good4: Excellent >

[ginnyinWI]

10. I liked your post too, beachmom

We should all post there as a part of watching Kerry's back. You are so right about that--a little sugar will sweeten some of that hatred, and there are doubtless young minds that get really influenced by what they read there. One comfort is that a Kerry post there really gets a response. People are still willing to spend time on him, for good or ill. How many other candidates had that a year after losing an election?

[ginnyinWI]

11. yup

A good strategy. I just gave to KAP at the end of Sept. :thumbsup:

[karynnj]

12. I wonder who Kos has written more words about - Bush or Kerry?

He is obsessed with this. If he really thought Kerry was such a bad politician, but not an evil man, wouldn't he just ignore him. A bad politician is not going to do what everyone says is next to impossible - win the nomination after a loss. If he wins the nomination, Kos should be ready to rethink his opinion on Kerry's political skills.

What's crazy is he encourages nonsense - one person apparently placing Kerry to the right of the entire 2004 set of candidates.

My favorite - I' loved the good spirited attempt to blast the whole topic was:

Go Kerry! (none / 0)

Although I'd be perfectly happy to see Daniel Boone in a coonskin hat as our next Democratic Nominee, I'd settle for Kerry just to hear Kos whine about it for the next 24 months.

Sheese, talk about pathological...

Independent Illinois Grassroots: IllinoisDemNet.com


By the way - we were accused of not being "amateur posters" but rather propagandists again.

[whometense]

14. Oh really?

I missed that. But I can only stomach one reading through that swill. Interesting that no Dean fanatic is ever considered a propagandist.

One thing that struck me about that thread was how Gore has become the new golden boy. When did that happen? So does that mean they'll be speaking that way about Kerry in 2009? I think Gore would have been a good president, but he has the same flaws now that he had then. They are just choosing not to see them.

[beachmom]

15. Propagandists? I mean, I'm not given any talking points, are any

of you? I have never even worked for a Kerry campaign (my kids are still pretty little, no babysitter, really, you know the drill) or been paid by them, nor am I a big fat cat donor. I mean, sometimes I'll read a piece of right wing slander against Kerry and pick out something that I think shows how great he is. Funny how WE'RE propagandists but Kos and Armando aren't, even when they only show a black/white picture about, say, Iraq, and don't invite in any of the nuance that certainly occurs in a big country of 25 million with 3 different ethnic groups.

Maybe they need to look up the meaning of the word propaganda.

By the way, thanks for the compliment, GinnyinWI up thread. I actually enjoy composing my comment to defend Kerry on Kos because they do have a big readership, and CNN seems to think they're such a big deal. So here's hoping my little composition will find it's way up the food chain, and Kerry people will know that there ARE supporters in the blogosphere.

I also wanted to mention, Whomtense, that you had a particularly good response on dailykos some time back that was so moving, that even Armando had to commend you for your passion. That's what we need and have here is passion, and it WILL catch on. I'm telling you it will. Oh yeah, and the lurkers, the quiet ones, are more likely to like Kerry but not want to comment than the whiners who ALWAYS feel the need to comment.

[whometense]

31. Thanks. I think your post today

was really good. I've discovered the same thing you did - the only way to deal with Kos is to go in and make "I" statements - state what you personally believe and avoid hitting out at others. That way you get your point across in a positive way and mostly stay above the flamewars.

I used to post there a lot, when I was fighting the good fight before the primaries. It was hard going. There is nothing Kerry can ever do that Kos will approve of, and there are a lot of slavish followers there. It's kind of weird because it's one man's site. DU doesn't have that vibe - no one owns it, so it belongs to everyone. But at Kos you kind of feel like you're arguing politics in someone's front parlor. It can be very uncomfortable. The Amen Corner is strong.

[LittleClarkie]

58. It's amazing after all the abuse when Keos said he thought Kerry

was a decent Senator. Really?! He sure doesn't act like he thinks Kerry is a decent anything.

[karynnj]

29. The DU claim that we are a group of propagandists

Quote "And on this board there is a definite
committee of posters diligently touting Kerry for another run. I've posted for years and I can tell the difference between honest amateur
political posters and professional promoters with an agenda. These Kerry guys aren't your regular "good ole boys". They are searching this site for any negative comments about Kerry and then attack with a vengeance using the typical pro fascist tactics of insults and sarcasm. I entered one post that said simply , "Please not Kerry again" and no less than four people pounded me with their slams. In one case, they trotted out that long list of Kerry's activities, another harped on the glory of Kerry as a prosecute back in the late 20th. These are part of the same folks that screwed the Democratic Party back in the Iowa primaries when they decided that Dean had to go and Kerry, the back runner, had to be the man"


After I responded that we were not organized or fascists, here was his long (numbered, no less) response:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2147223#2150171
where his mystifying claim is that JK was used by the fascists - and he wonders why we pick on him.

5. I have no convincing evidence the Kerry himself is a fascist. Yet, those who chose to install him as the Democratic candidate in 2004, particularly the media are most definitely either fascists or consorting with them. Kerry himself could have been as innocent as new snow while being used by more malevolent entities. There are indeed wheels within wheels.

[WildEyedLiberal]

32. Oh shit, I'm a fascist?

You don't say!

:crazy:

Someone had a few too many Froot Loops...

[WildEyedLiberal]

33. Thanks for pointing that out to me btw

The ignore list gets longer and longer...

[karynnj]

36. I haven't put anyone on ignore yet - but he and even more the other

loser on that thread may be the first. I can't believe how losely he throws out words like fascism - using sarcasm probably crosses all political believes.

[WildEyedLiberal]

38. Yeah, my ignore standards have lowered

Now, a total of 5 or more idiotic statements about Kerry, or one REALLY idiotic statement, will land you on the list. It's about the only thing I can do, since this site does not appear interested in cracking down on lies about Kerry and other Democrats.

[whometense]

34. Wow.

Where do you go with that, without it degenerating into a "yes you are" "no I'm not" kind of argument? That guy really needs to loosen up his tinfoil and let some air in.

Kerry would, I'm sure, be fascinated by the idea that he's a tool of the fascists.

And the very idea that the media wanted Kerry to be the candidate?? Puh-leeze...

[karynnj]

37. Even more the fascists would likely complain

that he does a very very poor job following their orders. I seriously can't think of a less likely fascist in the entire world.

[JI7]

39. did you alert on it ?

that type of shit should not be allowed on here.

[karynnj]

42. I didn't alert but you are right - I should have

The first one by calling us fascists certainly qualifies - the second they might actually allow.

[Der Blaue Engel]

60. I did

That shit was totally uncalled for. I couldn't even read the response to your post.

[whometense]

43. Karyn,

your post in that thread was amazing. I wanted to give you a hurrah, but didn't want to intensify his fantasies of attacking subterranean fascistic Kerry warriors. :tinfoilhat:

[WildEyedLiberal]

44. "Subterranean fascistic Kerry warriors"

:rofl:

I love it.

[whometense]

45. That's US,

dontcha know??
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:
:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

Tinfoil battalion to the rescue!!!

[WildEyedLiberal]

47. Edited for all those TINFOIL HATS? A post in smiley form.

Here's mine: :tinfoilhat:

To call Kerry a fascist, he must really be :smoke: some STRONG shit.

Or maybe too much :beer:

Either way, he's just a wee bit :crazy:

And this is all I have to say: :wtf: , with :eyes: for emphasis.

But maybe I am a :tinfoilhat: Kerry Warrior, because I DO :loveya: Kerry. He makes me think :evilgrin: things. He is a true :patriot:

I :grouphug: all my fellow Subterranean Fascistic Kerry Warriors! :yourock:

[whometense]

49. LOVE IT!!!!

I just went over and checked. They're up to something like 450 comments. Interesting.

You know what really gets me?? This: "no one voted for Kerry. They were only voting against Bush.

How do they know this? On what basis do they make this claim? It's perfectly idiotic.

This gets me too: "No way Kerry gets my vote next time."

I'm sure that threat has Kerry quaking in his boots.

[WildEyedLiberal]

51. Gee, somehow I doubt Kerry got their vote LAST time.

So I'm sure it'll be a huge loss for him :eyes: I've met more people who liked Kerry or who at least would be willing to consider him again than who hated him. Of course, the Kossacks have to inflate their importance and claim that THE WHOLE PARTY thinks as they do. Well, thank GOD, it doesn't.


Glad you liked the smileys :P

[karynnj]

50. That is so cool.

(Also I never noticed how to do the pictures, but reply shows the syntax.) It looks like the Highlights magazine things my kids read many years ago.

[karynnj]

48. Thanks, I like subterranean fascistic Kerry warriors

I answered because on first read he sounded half way polite. It might have been better not answering, but I hoped he could see that there is nothing harmful in what Kerry is doing. (then I read 5 - to answer it, and realized he was highly unlikely to change but I couldn't let the fascist claim go unchallanged.)

I hoped someone (likely not him) would get the idea of what Kerry said he would do and is doing. I loved the quotes in the Des Moines Register where he talked about this being a responsibility as the former nominee, Senator and public person. It was such a "Kerry" call to service type comment. He clearly takes being the nominee as an honor he was given and accepts responsibility with it.

[karynnj]

55. sel delete

[Der Blaue Engel]

59. Thank you very much for alerting us to this post

That was completely disgusting. I gave him/her a piece of my mind and alerted on the post, because I consider that a personal attack. Calling Kerry supporters on this board professional fascists out to screw the Democratic party?? SCREW HIM! What a nasty, hateful post. Obviously, some of these people just don't know what to make of people who don't spit on the Democrats at every turn and who support a candidate purely out of their own beliefs in his merits.

I am spitting mad. :mad:

[rox63]

16. I should just stop reading Kos

As a result, I am now pissed off at Cindy Sheehan. Of course, if Cindy did say she regretted supporting Kerry in the election, that's not Kos's fault. :mad:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/10/11/204242/78

[WildEyedLiberal]

17. I thought Kerry was in her hall of fame?

:shrug:

I refuse to click that link, as I refuse to dirty my cookies with Kosshit. Ugh.

[JI7]

18. he is

it's important to remember that Cindy is not a politician and she says many things which could be just of the moment.

more important is that she had positive things to say about him when she heard him for herself.

did Kos play up the stuff about what she said about Dean ? did he write about Kerry being on her hall of fame ?

and you will see what this is all about.

[JI7]

19. also

the one interviewing her is a Democratic hating naderite right wing asshole Joshua from from counterpunch.

he is leading her one by asking her questions by saying

"JF: Kerry certainly was a warmonger along the campaign trail. What do you think is going to change in Kerry's Iraq position, if anything? You've met with both Senators Clinton and Kerry recently; do you think either would ever endorse bringing the troops home immediately?

Cindy's reply shows she still is on Kerry's side but because of the way the question is asked it's influencing the answer.

"CS: As I said, I think Kerry may be changing, but I don't think Clinton ever will. This is just my own speculation, though."

notice even though she seemed to be positive about Kerry before the asshole still refers to Kerry in negative ways.

[WildEyedLiberal]

20. Oh, okay

I hate to say it, but Sheehan is letting herself be abused by these nutcases. It takes a special kind of idiot to call Kerry a "warmonger."

[karynnj]

25. I agree, but she is pushing back more than I would have expeated

It has to be hard when she is given these very loaded questions by people who can project authority and knowledge - even when like Counterpunch - they have neither. It's impressive that she struck to the view she had and didn't slide towards his. I would have wished she would have challanged the beginning of the sentence, but she didn't.

Fortunately, I don't think mainstream America sees Kerry as a warmonger.

[TayTay]

27. Because he's not.

He's not a pacifist. He did take up arms in what he thought at the time was defense of the nation. (It was sold as that, in those commie-fearing days.) He killed in the name of country. I never heard him renounce that, I heard him renounce the leadership who ordered up a war that they couldn't win or justify and he renounced an unfeeling establishment that threw veterans away after they had served like so many used tissues.

Warmonger is a word that is a one-way ticket to political obsolescence. Cindy should be careful about who she hangs out with and what words she allows to be put in her mouth. Neither her son nor most of the other people who are serving or have served in Iraq are warmongers. Her fight is with the Pentagon and the President, the ones who lied about the reasons for war, developed a horrendous plan for the invasion and now can't devise a plan to get out.

This is one way to squander all the good will and benefit of the doubt that she accumulated in August. It's sad to see.

[Mass]

22. These people cant read

She says three lines later that she thinks Kerry is changing. As JF insists on bashing Kerry, she says it twice.

They take one line in a long interview and make that the main message. Her point is that Democrats are not supporting immediate withdrawal.

[TayTay]

23. There was an interesting little poll in that mess

That basically shows that the American people are not where the majority of Kos posters are on the war. They want the war to end, if the troops cannot complete their mission. The majority of people are worried about Iraq and her people and what kind of a mess will be left behind. This matters to most Americans, but doesn't seem to matter to a fringe group that just wants everyone out know. (That's not my solution, and I sincerely doubt it's going to be Kerry's either.)

The majority of Kos and DU were not for Kerry in the primaries and he won. The Yepson article today shows that a lot of people know it's early and are keeping an open mind. The Senator is, right now, doing what he has to do to be true to his own beliefs and to what he promised last year. His legislative agenda is quite impressive this year. He has been an outspoken voice of opposition in committee hearings and so forth when needed. He still tries to work with Repubs to get things done, but they are an unreasonable bunch. (Actually, the finance comm has been putting out good bi-partisan stuff this year, for the most part, as has SBA.)

He is doing what he needs to do, both to be a good Senator for the people of Massachusetts and to go forward into the 2006 mid terms. None of the sniping by lesser souls really matters much.

[LittleClarkie]

46. Are you pissed off at her because of what she writes on her diary

over there? Yeah, sometimes she forgets she's a public figure now. I can forgive that. But she puts things the wrong way and pisses people off sometimes, to be sure.

[WildEyedLiberal]

21. I hope Kos continues to marginalize himself into obscurity

I hate that little fuckwad more than a lot of Republicans I know.

[Mass]

24. It is better to have him against Kerry than for him - he is bad luck

None of the candidates he supported recently won:

- Dean lost during the primary.
- Kerry lost the GE
- The kos dozen lost
- Hackett lost.

I would be Sherrod Brown that he decided would be better than Hackett, I would be worried.

The main problem he has is that he has decided once and for all that he does not care about what the person thinks. He will support who he thinks is electable, and he is often wrong about who he thinks is electable.

[WildEyedLiberal]

26. You know who I will bet anything he goes for in 2008?

Hillary. Color me crazy, especially with his DLC tirades, but I can see it coming.

Which is fine by me. As you pointed out, Kos is the kiss of death.

[TayTay]

28. I see an Evan Bayh or a Warner.

Kos is by nature a centrist. The war may be over by then and he will pick someone moderate. I don't think he likes Hillary and I can't see him going for her in any great numbers. Plus he really hates the DLC because he delusionaly thinks that Kerry was DLC. (Which he only sort of was, sort of.) Hmm, I wonder if he will get over his feud with the DLC in order to back a 'not Kerry?'

[WildEyedLiberal]

30. I think odds are he endorses a DLCer

Bayh, Warner, and Clinton are all DLC, Kos won't endorse Kerry, and he won't endorse a lefty fringe candidate like Kucinich. If Feingold runs, it'll be a close call between Feingold and the DLC candidate du jour (perhaps Warner, he is well liked at DKos).

God, it'll be glorious to see Kerry get the nom again just so Kos can whine for 4 MORE years.

[JI7]

40. i bet he voted for Bush over Kerry last year

[WildEyedLiberal]

41. Probably.

Wasn't his little "mentor", Jerome from MyDD, trashing Kerry on fucking ELECTION EVE last year? Calling him a crap candidate the day before the vote?

They are as bad as Rove in a way, because they spread lies and fracture from within.

[whometense]

35. That's one of the most freakish things about him.

He is a centrist. And he supported Dean, a centrist. And he attracts lefty freepers by the droves to his website. Go figure.

[LittleClarkie]

56. But every once in a while he shows his true colors and pisses a bunch off

-like the hippy dippy comment re: anti-war folks
-or the comments he made about the women's movement
-the way he sees nothing wrong with endorsing Casey to win against Santorum but goes apeshit over GLBT issues if it has to do with Kerry (I don't have a problem with telling special interest folks to go away, but tell them all to go away. Don't favor one group and then tell another they don't matter.)

Or the endearing way he has of pissing of a group of his readers, and then pissing them off more during the clarification phase. He has no tact. He's immature as hell. And that's what he attracts.

And yet, I go over there to post, since there are a handful of decent people there and I don't want to leave them hanging when they rather like getting Kerry news.

[whometense]

61. True.

And you do a great job of posting in defense of Kerry and still keeping it light. I agree that he's immature. He's also impulsive - shoots off his mouth regularly without considering the consequences.

Come to think of it, he has that quality in common with Dean. Maybe that's why he found Dean to be such an attractive candidate. Self-love is a wonderful thing.

[wisteria]

52. The Kos anti-Kerry mob reminds me of the Republican's flown in

to Florida during the 2000 recount. You know the ones, the hired bullies sent by Repubs in Washington to intimidate the counters and sway opinion towards Bush.(I believe Bolton was one of them.) Kos certainly has a problems with being fair and honest when it applies to Kerry and he knows exactly how to manipulate his simpleminded followers into a Kerry frenzy. It all seems so contrived as they do this on cue. I think it is important to counter post with pro- Kerry statements over there. Kos's purpose is obviously, to sway peoples' opinions on Kerry through Bullying and intimidation. I would even suggest that perhaps, he is indirectly working or being worked by someone or some organization, who has another agenda and is trying to get Kerry out of the picture. He has, in the past,taken money for the purpose of promoting Dean on his blog, hasn't he? Why not also take some money to help discredit Kerry-especially if you aren't crazy about the guy. I find his dislike of Kerry a little over the top. Kos seems to dislike Kerry more than Bush- is that really normal and does it make any sense? Actually, that whole site seems schizoid sometimes.

[LittleClarkie]

53. This one got me.

I was doing okay. Not getting mad. Just posting in that thread when suddenly:

"On the CHRISMA scale (1.00 / 2)

Kerry is well into the negative.

The only way his cadre of swift boat vets followed him was because of his rank. He is not a leader.

We need a true chrismatic leader. Think Clinton with out the sleaze. Who can that be? John Edwards still has great drawing power. Is he ballsy enough?"

I met some of those swift vets for Kerry. I also hung with some of the Vets for Kerry. Don't tell ME they weren't inspired by him. The head of the Vets for Kerry in Wisconsin said she'd never done anything like she was doing for the Kerry campaign. She heard him speak, and was inspired. The VVAW guy I worked along side, who saw Kerry's testimony back in the day, was inspired.

I keep thinking back to how great those guys were. They bought their own supplies, as they were separate from the campaign. The campaign gave them space in the office, that was all. When yard signs were scarce, they made their own. Beautiful corrigated plastic signs. Big ones too. I cry when I think of their dedication and all the work they put in, and how dissappointed they must have been when it didn't pay off. In fact, thinking about it now, I'm in tears again.

Don't tell me why the Swiftees followed Kerry unless you were a swiftee on one of his damn boats.

Oh. my. God. I am SO pissed off right now.

[JI7]

54. these fuckers are in their own world

just like the freepholes who think all is going well under Bush and that Hillary or Kerry want to bring on some communist agenda for the nation.

it's like the ones who were making demands of what Cindy Sheehan needs to do and despite her satisfaction with Kerry were telling her it is not enough.

it becomes about THEM. and they will put down anyone, anything in order to push their false sense of how things are.

so when reality hits them they come up with all kinds of conspiracy theories as why things didn't go as they thought or wanted to.

[LittleClarkie]

57. I esp. love the whine about how Dean coulda won if everyone

wasn't against him. Welcome to politics folks.

Here's what I told the guy who pissed me off:

"That's not what one of those swiftees told me (none / 0)

And what the flying fuck would rank matter to a bunch of retired Navy guys.

They follow him, because they believe in him. One VVAW/ex-Marine I met who was at both Dewey Canyon I and Dewey Canyon III said he was inspired to join the campaign because it was Kerry who was running.

That just made me mighty angry, the way you disparaged those swift vets like that. As if they were mindlessly following Kerry because he used to be their officer once.

Jim Wasser said that if we could have gotten Kerry into office he would have been not only a good president, but a great one.

He may not be charismatic to you, but don't plaster your motivations over those of the Vets for Kerry. That's just not right.

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

by Kerrycrat on Tue Oct 11, 2005 at 09:01:10 PM CST"

[beachmom]

62. Can I just say this whole fascist thing has really made my day!

Here I am, a stay at home Mom, dealing with small children who aren't exactly up on the latest supreme court justice nominee, where our big discussion of the day is about pooping in the potty, and the joys of changing my younger one's diaper. Sometimes I daydream about the days when I was in the workforce, and had an identity instead of just being somebody's Mom.

And then along comes this guy spouting conspiracy theories about a bunch of fascists looking for negative comments about Kerry and then defends him. I was laughing out loud this morning when I read this. I mean, I feel like, power wise, we've been characterized as just being one or two levels below Karl Rove. Damn, I'm feeling good now. I AM somebody -- a fascist Kerry warrior. And by the way, this works from the Right, too. Then I can be a communist Kerry warrior! Most excellent.

Damn, the internet rules. It really is democracy at its most primal level, where you can actually CREATE power out of nothing. I shall walk taller from this day on . . .

[whometense]

63. hahahahahaha

Great post!! I know what you mean - I thought we were a scattershot and ragtag little group. Little did I imagine our scope and power.

By the way, I was also a stay-at-home mom for about 12 years. It can be a real challenge to keep your brain operating at full speed! Not that kids aren't challenging in themselves, but not in a particularly intellectual way. I've been working now for a lot of years, but I still see coming in to the office as a treat (believe it or not!)

[karynnj]

64. and he said we were "professional" and "organized'

I wonder if part of this might be that we have tried to be more fact based in responses over there.

12 years is a long time. I took a year off with each girl, then took a retirement offer 8 years ago when my oldest was 20.

[emulatorloo]

68. I gotta hand it to you - you were amazing. . .

it is wednesday night 10pm and I just saw that horrible horrible vile thread.

You were really terrific as was BLM.

[Mass]

66. Read this diary "Gore will not run again"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/12/164345/59

It seems that kossacks are even more dillusional than kos himself. By his diary stating what Gore said about a potential race, he has raised a revolution among people who cannot accept that idea.

LOL. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[whometense]

67. I'm still laughing from that post

in the Teddy thread in GD that said he wanted Gore because it's time for a new face.

Do they even hear themselves????