For the Geek Table: Breaux on Health Care, vs. Kerry?

[MH1]

I'm just wondering if any of the proud geeks here watched the segment Breaux did, ""What Americans Want in Health Care Reform". The video is currently up on the cspan site.

I haven't watched it myself yet...just wondering if someone *cough*TayTay*cough*Whome*cough*...was geeky enough to have watched it and considered how it compares to Kerry's approach to health care. Is Breaux totally off the map, or is he right there with Kerry?

("For extra credit, compare and contrast both men's ideas on health care policy with the plan Hillary proposed in the 1990's"...ok just kidding...)

Just curious....my own geek time is up for tonight (spent most of it at a local candidates' forum), so I was hoping to mooch some knowledge and insight off you guys tomorrow during a work break.

[TayTay]

1. I haven't watched it.

But it sounds intriguing. I'll get righton that. (Is there still 10% off my grade if I hand it in late Prof?)

I like the compare and contrast. Hillary's plan went through like 8 evolutions and wound up being, not so much. I'll look at Breaux's and see if it matches up with Kerry's innovative idea.

[karynnj]

2. I haven't looked at the Breaux plan yet, but I tried to find

exactly what Hillary's plan was. Her autobiograpy really waltzes around it. From the book, I know it was 1342 pages long, that 48 hrs before Bill's initial speech - Hillary led him to realize that it had problems and they and a group of experts re-wrote it, that she got good reviews before Congress, and that they gave up before forcing a vote - which Hillary deemed a mistake. (One initial surprise was they originally planned to just give Congress an outline of principles, but found that Rostenkowski expected a detailed bill.)

After the failure of the universal health insurance plan, she claims the following as her achievements on health care.


"worked behind the scenes with Senator Kennedy to help create the Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), which by 2003 provided coverage to more than 5 million children ... represented the largest expansion of public health insurance since the passage of Medicaid in 1965."

So the woman who managed to annoy health professionals, insurance companies, and Congress while working on Universal Health coverage then helped Kennedy, who had been writing and passing legislation for over 30 years at that point and who had a perfectly good (uncredited) junior Senator (who also knew how to write legislation) who actually worked with him on a pre-cursor bill? Unless she really had impact on this, this claim could embarrass her.

- getting Bill to sign a series of bills on such things as allowing women to stay in the hospital more than 24 hrs after child birth, raising awareness of AIDS, and increasing research into .

[TayTay]

3. Agreed on that.

That health plan was screwed from the start. It just was politically mismanaged so badly that it was a great contributing factor to the Dems losing Congress in '94. (Seriously. That is my outstanding problem with Hillary Clinton. She is not a great politician. I think she has gotten better, but she didn't have the people skills to sell her stuff. She is annoying me now because her idea of positioning herself for '08 is to run to the middle. Excuse me? Make a plan, tinker with it until is is good. Sell the freakin plan. No amount of running to the middle is going to help if you don't have the goods. Sigh!)

[whometense]

4. Slightly OT,

but on the subject of Hillary as pol. This came to me late last night as I was watching the emergency heating assistance press conference. After reading some of the comments people had made about Hillary I was watching her pretty closely.

I'm not sure I agree that she resents Kerry, but it came to me that she has an almost Margaret Thatcher-like, dragon lady kind of affect. She's tough, and I too feel like she's probably something of a bitch, but that quality's probably a prerequisite for any woman who wants a career in national politics.

It's more like what you're saying - that she's not a very good politician. No matter what she's really like in person and offstage, she comes across as cold. Just cold. Next to her Kerry is like a (tall, lean) teddy bear.

Oh, and I haven't seen the Breaux thing either, but now I'm curious.

[karynnj]

5. I agree with what you say

I really can't think of a woman, high in politics that hasn't had to do this. (The closest I can think of - but know relatively little about are Olymphia Snowe or Blanche Lincoln)

Comparing pictures of Hillary in the last 2 years with when she was first lady, there seems to be a coldness and unhappiness when she is not"on".

I like your comment that "Next to her Kerry is like a (tall, lean) teddy bear." He really was! So maybe this is the real strategy - Kerry, taking the passion that he always had but has learned he can show and the genuine feeling he has for people amplified by so much interaction with them will appear ONLY next to people who seem cold. After two years everyone will be saying that he's a huggable teddy bear. :) who everyone would want to have a hot chocolate with. (I don't want to picture beer drinking teddy bears.

[ginnyinWI]

7. very observant, Karyn

JK should appear with Hillary often! Side by side everyone can see who's the Real Deal. She may have a good heart--I'm not trying to say she doesn't--but she's a newbie at this game.


p.s. Now I want to have hot chocolate with Sen. Kerry! :donut:

[TayTay]

8. Teddy Bear?

Oh dear, that's too funny.

Wonder if Condi thought that yesterday.

That's funny, given his history. I think he's likeable, but not a Teddy Bear.

[karynnj]

9. Whome said it first!

No, Condi doesn't get to see him as a Teddy Bear, but as a Big Powerful Bear who doesn't like her and wants to stop her evil plans. I'm not sure what type of bear that is - but I hope it's one that gives her nightmares.

[whometense]

11. I own up to it.

But ONLY in context of standing next to Hillary. He was fiercely in Condi's face. As she richly deserved.

And I agree with you, Karyn, about beer and teddies. Not a pleasant picture. :-)

[ginnyinWI]

6. she is indeed cold

She says the right words, but she doesn't exude the--- heart, for want of a better word, to connect with the audience. Bill is better at this, but JK is better than Bill. And I don't care WHAT the pundits say about that!

Hillary just doesn't seem to deeply feel it in her bones. Did anyone see her addressing an AA group a few weeks ago with Harry Belafonte and others? She lapsed into a Southern accent! I thought that was hilarious, but not effective.

[karynnj]

10. I don't think the pundits are totally wrong on JK vs Bill

There were so many times this year and last when Kerry was almost painfully sincere. To me it seemed that he cared very deeply about many things. But I don't think he would be good faking any emotion that he didn't feel - which I think Clinton can do. The other thing is I think he usually hides when things hurt him, which would explain the MA reaction to his concession.

Bill I think can appear to care both when he really does (and I do think he often does) and when he doesn't care. He is charismatic enough that you want to believe him, but there is a faint undertone of thinking his actions (biting his lip etc) are a bit rehearsed. As I didn't see this for a long time, it may just be Clinton fatigue.

[whometense]

12. This always bugged me

about Clinton. I never thought about it much till post-presidency, because it didn't take a long time to choiose between him and Bush senior, or Dole either for that matter.

But Clinton has always struck me as over-the-top, though maybe that's my inner New Englander speaking. I'm naturally much more comfortable with slightly reserved and dignified. Clinton's too gushy for my taste. But with Kerry the painful sincerity is always evident to me. I love him for it, because I can tell he's telling the truth. With Clinton, I was never sure.

[karynnj]

13. I'm not from NE, but I'm with you

I'm origionaly from the Indiana side of the Chicago side. Maybe southern is too much for us too.

[ginnyinWI]

14. yes, that's what I meant to say about Bill

He knows how to be a good politician, but once I got a chance to hear Kerry, he seems less authentic by comparison. I mean, I always took Bill with a grain of salt--never completely believed in him. You are right about how much trust Kerry inspires because he always is so sincere. I "got" him pretty quickly, and I'm not even from New England! I recognized him as a member of my generation who shared the values and ideals we held back in the 60s and 70s.

Not at first glance though: my first impression was that he must be too out of touch, too rich, too stuffy, too "Washington", etc. But that was before I heard him discuss issues in the primary debates (impression: super-intellectual, super-knowledgeable, sincere, focused and committed) and got filled in on his life story, esp. the VVAW part.

And he grew as a candidate: he started out kind of reserved, unemotional (at least what I saw of him--the primary debates), but by the end of the general campaign he was much more "out there" with his emotions, not afraid to show his softer side, like some of you have written already.

[whometense]

15. True.

one of the things I've always most admired about Kerry is his ability to learn from his mistakes, to grow, and to genuinely change. My belief in his ability to do that has been reinforced by watching him since the election. He strikes me as much more open and demonstrative. I think the campaign changed him in the sense that he was forced to show his true self in public pretty much 24/7, and most people appreciated him. And a lot loved him. You don't go back after an experience like that. Unless it wasn't genuine in the first place.

[MH1]

16. No 10% off...

But it seems my query has stimulated a fun little discussion of Hillary. Ah well, I guess I should watch the video myself before asking you guys to do my work for me.

;-)

[TayTay]

17. I haven't had a chance to watch it yet

Well, the Sente was in session, and I had to work and there was a committee meeting and I will do so tomorrow when they adjourn for the weekend. I swear. Don't give up. People do come to the geek table. They just have to be all prepared and stuff. (And I have to go to the store and get pizza and hot chocolate and, ahm, teddy bears. AHm, scratch that last one. I not with them on that one. Nice and likeable and stuff, but I can't agree with the teddy bear thing. Sorry. I can go with what one of Kerry's daughter said, "He's goofy" sometimes. He's also a very good political warrior.)