Now Showing: Chris Heinz vs. the Church of St. Howard

[Withywindle]

He's trying to rationally explain why he supports SR for DNC chair.

Brave man.

Some very good thinking and debating going on. And some icky disruption.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1485698&mesg_id=1485698

[JohnKleeb]

1. They can be quite unreasonable

I really don't care who gets it.

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. I'm tired of the meme

That Dean is the only Dem with a "spine."

Screaming "YEEEEEEEAGH" and trashing other Dems does not equal "spine." Personally, I think it's a bit dishonest of him to parade around as a populist, when he's a centrst (a DAMN DIRTY DLC CENTRIST!) at heart.

I could care less if he gets DNC chair. I like him allright, and I won't campaign against him. But I am sick to death of the Cult of Dean here at DU.

[JohnKleeb]

3. He's not the only dem with a spine

Thats such a bs meme its not even funny, people like to act like the dems have given in to the republicans but I need to remind them that more dems voted against the war resolution, the tax cut, etc than for.

[LittleClarkie]

10. Here's a question I've not had the guts to ask before

what the heck is a meme.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I find it amazing that they see Chris as a threat. Did they think DU was their own bully pulpit, that no one else was allowed?

It's all so undemocratic. I feel like I'm fighting against assimilation. Resistance is futile. Join the Dean collective.

[ginnyinWI]

12. a meme is

a thought or concept that spreads among people kind of like a virus--it can be positive or negative--

[angrydemocrat]

13. I Hope Chris Knows About This Group

I wish I had known he was posting before he signed off and I would have ask him that question and invited him here. I would like to think he knows there are more people at DU that support John than what posted on that thread. 90% of the post I seen was a bunch of asses posting bullshit and don't even have the decency to show respect for John's family. Some of the remarks were over the top if you ask me. Damn people at here at DU have turned into total assholes and that is being nice! Everytime I read one of those threads it reminds of why I never even bother going in the other forums anymore. And it makes me be more thankful we have this forum and we don't have to put up with that shit. I wouldn't anyhow I would have already left and went elsewhere there is no way I would have stayed here and listen to all the whiney asses that are here at DU.

[TayTay]

14. AD, what are you doing?

We can't have Chris here until we tidy the place up (and delete a few threads.) We need some warning to get the place presentable. I just know what's going to happen, he's going to show up late one night, and just WEL and Vektor will be here and he'll either leave very happy or very disturbed. (Or both.)

[Withywindle]

16. Well, we'll just have to...

give him his own thread! :D

(I doubt he'd get very far trying to read THOSE threads...nobody wants to know too much about exactly what a bunch of strangers want to do with his stepfather!)

[merh]

55. Do you think Mama T would find some of the threads "cute"?

I wouldn't want to upset her, but she does have a right to know that some of us think her husband is damned sexy. :loveya: JFK :loveya:

[Withywindle]

17. Honestly, I'm a bit shocked by that...

Venting is one thing--actually insinuating to someone's face (well, virtually*) that he and his family are "mouthpieces" of something nefarious....How FUCKING mindbogglingly rude. TOTAL freeper behavior.


*Not that most of these e-warriors would have the guts to say anything to anyone's face really.

[TayTay]

18. Childish

Honestly, here was a chance to get into a conversation with a smart guy who had some real interesting stories to impart. It's just so crazy to think that some people would use this rare opportunity to converse with him to spill bile.

I do hope that after the inauguration of The Idiot and The Troll That Lives Under the Bridge (thanks Jon Stewart) and after the DNC head election that things calm down here. If it wasn't for the JK group, I never would have stayed.

[whometense]

19. You beat me to it.

That was my reaction as well. My god, Chris Heinz has the courtesy to come over here and ask for peoples' opinions and gets treated like that??

Those people were unforgiveably rude. IMHO it doesn't matter who you are talking to, there is no excuse for that. They called him a LIAR. They insulted his motives and his stepfather. It's just plain embarrassing.

I'm not a Dean fan, but I don't hate him. I fail to understand, though, what it is about him that calls forth such behavior. Can he even control these people? I doubt it. If he gets DNC chair at least that takes him out of presidential consideration for '08, and I believe that would be a great thing. I honestly worry, though, how insufferable the Deaniacs would be with that kind of victory under their collective belt.

[angrydemocrat]

20. That Was Terrible

The shit they said to him. I was reading that and I couldn't believe the garbage spewed and disrespect these assholes showed. That was so embarrassing to say the least. And why the mods let that crap go on is beyond me. These assholes have lost it that's all I can say.

[JI7]

4. Simon Rosenberg has been pretty critical of the Kerry campaign

all the attacks on Chris are so stupid anyways. he has always been more of a moderate . i think he takes after his father John Heinz a lot. he has often disagreed with Kerry on things as he said during his campaign for Kerry.

[JohnKleeb]

5. Chris was a big proponent if I recall of making someone like Clark the VP

too. He's a good guy as was his father.

[JI7]

6. i'm not sure if it was it was Clark specifically

but i do know he tended to focus on foreign policy/national security much more. these are the things he focused on during his campaign for Kerry also. i remember people using what Chris said to think it would mean Kerry would not pick Edwards. but of course we found out it wasn't true.

i always though his brother Andre came across as more in line with John Kerry on the issues and much more liberal. and Vanessa Kerry came across as very liberal. i think she was totally anti war and she supports same sex marriage.

of course all of this just shows they are a close family but are able to disagree with political issues. Chris said he likes Kucinich and they got along during times they would see each other during the campaigning.

[JohnKleeb]

7. Yes, Chris told me that when I supported Kucinich

Yeah they don't think totally unlike. They're a good family, I hope Chris knows that his dad really is still a hero to some around here and wasn't just ABB.

[pamela]

8. Hey, I'm all for Dean as DNC chair if...

1. It will make the Deaniacs shut the fuck up.
2. It puts an end to his '08 presidential aspirations.

Yeehaw!

[JohnKleeb]

9. hah

[angrydemocrat]

15. I tell you what those assholes

Would turn you against supporting Dean for any damn thing. I'm not a huge Dean person anyhow and these people make me realize supporting him you also support those idiots he has created. Sheesh! I have to say I would support any democrat other than Dean regardless that is just the way I feel at this point. It may be the wrong to look at it that way but hell far it is hard not to anymore. I am sick of this cult that has been created and damn sure wouldn't want to support it growing in anyway. And not to piss anyone off but the YEEEEEARGH scream is as ignorant as it gets. That sounds like something one of these ignornant ass repukes here in Tennessee would go around saying. I mean get for real. Dean is ok but this shit around DU is truly old. And all these kind of Deaniacs do is turn people against Dean. I know you can't blame Dean for these peoples actions but I must say it sure does make others think twice before they support him for anything for fear creating a bigger group of these assholes.

[GRLMGC]

25. haha, good case

Man, a lot of people presented their cases thoughtfully but some were just assholes. Where does that get you? Eh, whatever, freaking bastards :)

By the way, the only time I will use those dastardly floaty heart things is now in regards to Chris Heinz :loveya:

[JohnKleeb]

26. heh so you have a crush on him like wild does on her step dad

Nothing wrong with it, if I dont tease her for that, I of course won't tease you for Chris.

[GRLMGC]

27. In a word

Yes :)

[JohnKleeb]

28. hah

Now for me and politicans kids, I like the Kerry girls, Edwards' daughter, and I hear Lieberman's daughter is great actually.

[GRLMGC]

29. hehe

How cute :)

[JohnKleeb]

30. well I think with the exception of the Lieberman daughter

they are all older than me but hey thats fine, I like slightly older girls, I am already bound to do so being one of the youngest people in my year.

[whometense]

32. You really did

make me laugh out loud with that.

1. A definite plus.
2. An even more definite plus.

[merh]

56. Agreed!

1000% agreed. :thumbsup:

[paulk]

11. I don't know who else is running

but, I'm all for Dean!!!


I've seen that several times these last few weeks...


I've been leaning toward Simon Rosenberg myself, so it was kinda cool to see Chris Heinz agrees. Rosenberg seems like a good compromise choice between Roemer and Dean.

I'm opposed to Dean as DNC chair - and the reason is the Deaniacs. If that's the core of Howard's support - I want nothing to do with it.
And I don't think the party should have anything to do with it, either.

[sandnsea]

21. Trippi endorsed Rosenberg

I don't know what the hell that's about, but get the popcorn folks!!!

[angrydemocrat]

22. LOL

You have got to be kidding? OMG Deaniacs will be having major shitstorm now LOL. When was this?

[paulk]

23. from the PERRspectives blog

"With an extremely fractured set of Democratic constituencies, Rosenberg is one of the few unifying, healing voices across the center and left-of-center. While Al From's DLC and Howard Dean's insurgent campaign waged a destructive war of Democratic fratricide in May 2003, Rosenberg was a voice of reason. The centrist NDN embraced (though did not endorse) the Dean candidacy, especially its innovative use of Internet techniques like blogging and Meetup to build a party of "$100 donors." As he noted then, "NDN has not endorsed Dean or embraced him, but we have given our opinion that this is a serious campaign that is going to change the party.""


The Dean people are going to have a hard time potraying Rosenberg as the "enemy" (not that they won't try)

[angrydemocrat]

24. I Have To Agree

They will have a hard time making him the enemy. But these assholes are crazy and in their minds the world revolves around Dean and if he is not supported by all the world will come to an end. SHEESH! I can only imagine the shitstorms that lay ahead with these dumbasses.

[seito]

31. What do you all think of PDA

Progressive Democrats of America
http://pdamerica.org/index.php

They endorsed Dean for DNC chair

[paulk]

33. I don't take them seriously

from their site:


"The Party was left with a fractured base after the primary. Hundreds of thousands of voters who rallied around anti-war candidates during the primaries held their collective noses to support Kerry, because Bush was really that bad. Other voices were left out of the Party, because for them, “Not Bush” was just NOT ENOUGH."


It's the usual stuff - They loved Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton - reluctantly "supported" Kerry.

[JohnKleeb]

34. Thats bullshit

God I hate how Dean is treated like he's a progressive democrat just because of his view on the war and Kerry is treated like he's not because of his, when in reality those two views aren't so different. I was a Kucinich supporter who never really had any beef with Kerry, I did some unpopular things in the primaries like defending Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, I don't regret it at all, I had a big problem with supporters of candidates who didn't even have to vote on the stuff they were calling people bushlite for, well calling them bushlite, yes you can say all you want about those guys but you have no idea how Clark or Dean would have voted on the same things that you crucify Kerry, Edwards, and Gephardt for. Do tell me, how does a man who is a democrat with very simliar values to Teddy Kennedy regarded as reluctant among progressive democrats yet a more centrist democrat based on Clinton is regarded as a dem with spine and his actions aren't to be questioned and if you do questiion, you're bashing him. Goddamn. Sorry for that rant, hell I supported Kucinich and hes not perfect left on many social issues, many rust belt democrats are like that, they're great on economic and often foreign issues but they aren't the ideal dem on social issues.

[angrydemocrat]

40. Isn't That The Damn Truth!

You point out Clinton's actions and OH HELL. Now you can't being doing that now why he is the greatest thing OMG and damn didn't you know he has a real spine he just managed to do everything so great and Oh yeah didn't you kow he did it all on his own I mean it didn't take men like Kerry backing him, saving his his ass more times than one.:eyes: BULLSHIT! And didn't you know Mr.YEEEARGH was the only one that could save America and he is more liberal than Kerry and that that had to be the gospel be Mr.Oh Mighty Big Moderate Gore backed him so ya know what they say it has to be the oh mighty gospel I mean no way are they wrong about anything, Oh btw since it Mr.YEEEEARGH stabbing others in the back and being a major asswipe about well oh thats just fine because the America will die without Mr.YEEEARGH but now don't be defending yourslf or don't bring up his bad points or you are so un-American and don't care.:eyes:

[JohnKleeb]

43. Clinton was the guy who told Kerry

to back the gay marriage bans nationwide, thank god Kerry had the courage to say no to that. Dean managed to have a spine because he had nothing to lose, he had no office when he was running for president, Kerry and those others did. Gore backed Dean, I don't know why, but Gore was instrumental in starting that same gruop that is despised by so many here, the DLC!, yet he gets a break. Of course Gore can be vocally critical when he's got nothin to lose. My problems with Dean aren't that he's too left, alas far from it!, its the total opposite, its that he acts like he's really left yet you read his record, and he's really a moderate that favored business over the environment as governor, was seen as a foe by the party liberals in Vermont. But thats ok, he was against the war so he's absolved of any of his moves to the right, but Kerry shares a similiar position and is treated like a Bushlite. Goddamnit, I am sick of it, sick of narrow minded hypocritics, just gimme some truth.

[angrydemocrat]

44. I know what your saying

And yes Gore backed Mr.YEEEEARRG for a while because it was the talk of talk among Tenn. democrats. But I can proudly say those who love Gore around here once they learned about Kerry and who he really was alot of folks grew to love Kerry more than they do home boy! Not that anything is wrong with Gore but he sure as hell isn't cock of the walk by no damn means and the same goes for Mr.YEEEEARRG. Clinton has been wrong about alot of things but to some he's never wrong and he's cock of the walk:eyes: And like you said all of these are people who had nothing to lose. And Mr. YEEEEARRG is more moderate than Kerry will ever be and the records speak for themselves. Like you I'm sick of the bullshit and just say what the hell I got to say and don't give a damn who it pisses off!

[JohnKleeb]

45. Gore, Clinton, Dean are good guys but they're moderates

and aren't totally great. Gore was a big hawk in the 80's and ran as the moderate in the 1988 Primaries, hell Ive read Clinton chose him for VP because he was a rare dem in supporting the first gulf war, Dean would bring up his support for that to say hey I am not really a dove. I just wish people would realize that just because Kerry seemed hawkish on Iraq that does NOT make him bushlite, look at the total fucking record. Yes, they got nothing to lose so they can be ultra critical, but Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt couldn't be so.

[angrydemocrat]

46. Agree With Ya All The Way

But getting others to realize this and own up to it is another.

[JohnKleeb]

49. Yep its ok for them to shove Kerry's moderate views down throat

and say that makes him a bushlite, but its not ok for people to bring up that Dean once supported cutting medicare and social security, I think thats what Gephardt brought up at least, ahh its so hypocritical.

[seito]

35. I was thinking about going to the conference in DC

Now I am having second thoughts

[JohnKleeb]

36. I consider myself a progressive democrat

:shrug: thus I didn't find Kerry a reluctant choice. I feel many of my fellow progressive dems get attracted to rhetoric too easily.

[seito]

37. I didn't either

Kerry was my first choice from the beginning. I find the Dean "worship" more than a little disturbing.

[JohnKleeb]

38. Read my post about the DNC Chair here as well

I am sick of Dean supporters for DNC chair assuming that those who oppose him are pseudo republicans, god maybe some of us were a tad irriated at what Dean said about the south, and we're afraid he could alienate it more so.

[JohnKleeb]

39. Sigh all kinds of black and white posts today damnit

Its so much more fucking complex than what people are making it out to be. Its not Dean or a bang move to the right. All the people running for DNC chair offer a unique vision of the party. Fuck the purity of people.

[TheDonkey]

41. Does anyone know about that CSPAN special re-airing again

or being available on the website, I couldn't find it.

The special that had DNC chair hopefuls debate or hold a press conference I think.

[sandnsea]

47. There's 3 more

St. Louis, Sacramento, NYC. I'll post them if I catch them. I looked for the program on the CSpan site too and couldn't find it either. There are two interviews though, one with Webb and one with Fowler. Just put DNC in the search box.

[JohnKleeb]

48. Webb is impressive

[sandnsea]

50. My fav so far

But I really haven't done any research on him. Roemer, I can't stand at all. Fowler would be good at organizational ideas, but the total wrong image, seems to me. I could live with any of the rest of them. But to really put a Democratic face back on the Democratic Party, Webb is the guy. Not because he's black, just because he's a regular people kind of guy. I think he'd do wonders for our image.

[JohnKleeb]

52. I loved how he stood up to Heston when he was mayor of Denver

[sandnsea]

51. Well, on second look

I guess not. It's right there in the newspaper link so I would imagine there has to be some basis in truth. I don't think you can quite invent kids on the payroll. I'm usually a better judge of character than that. Oh well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=142&topic_id=3083&mesg_id=3083

[paulk]

42. Dean won't get the chairmanship

it will be like the primaries - his supporters all screaming and yelling and the internet echo chamber will make it seem ... a lot bigger than it really is. the people who actually vote on this are pretty level headed - they'll make their decisions based on real world political criteria - like who can run a campaign - who can raise money, who can run a large, nationwide organization that appeals to more than one wing of the party, etc.

The only thing Dean has going for him is name recognition. He ran a horrible campaign - he squandered 40 million dollars and a thirty point lead. He's a divisive, polarizing figure - not the person we need to unite the party.

Dean did one thing right - he used the internet to raise money and get his message out. Oh - wait... that was Joe Trippi's idea. And Trippi just endorsed Rosenberg.

[elshiva]

53. I am a proud Deaniac Kucitizen Kerryite Edwardian Gorista Democrat

I will support Dean because of his strong stand on GLBT Rights and I'm afraid the Dems will go wishy-washy on it without Dean. I'm bisexual, so it's personal, hon.Don't hate on us Deaniacs, please. Dean's campaigning for Kerry really opened me up to the good senator.
Oh, I also want to say that Kerry WAS NOT A Flip-Flopper on GLBT, he sincerely supported gay rights since 1985 and gets a 100% rating on HRC.

[GRLMGC]

54. I don't hate any of the 2004 candidates

Well I don't really like Lieberman but I'm supporting Dean as DNC chair