Anybody else nervous about how this might turn out?

[LeftyLizzie]

I'm really glad that our JK has stepped up to the plate on the whole filibuster thing . . . I can tell that a lot of people in GD and elsewhere are really impressed with him and are really supportive of him right now (the amount of support has really surprised me). However, I have a feeling that all this good will might not last long . . . if the filibuster doesn't come to fruition, Kerry could just end up looking overzealous. I mean, is his move too risky? I agree that, fundamentally, he has done the right thing, but it could easily backfire. . . What do you all think?

[beachmom]

1. For me, it's a long view thing

Samuel Alito is going to be HORRIBLE on the SC. When people start to realize how bad, they'll start asking why didn't the Dems fight this? And the answer will be, some did. And they both hailed from the great state of Massachusetts.

That doesn't mean that we aren't in for a painful couple of weeks; then, things will die down again.

The only thing that bothers me is that he is flying home early? Isn't he supposed to speak in Ireland? That's the only thing that gives it a rough shod appearance. Any details on what his trip was supposed to be vs. what it is?

[wisteria]

2. Its the long term for me also, and getting out the message that

this nomination is more than just about abortion rights.We have got to continue supporting this as a bold stand on behalf of America and in support of the people.

[jillan]

3. you know what I'm nervous about?

That Kerry won't get the support from the other dems.

Then it's going to be very ackward for Kerry over the next couple of years.
It must be hard for Kerry now. He is so more in tune to the American people after campaigning like he did last year. He was the first nominee to have the blogosphere, and thanks to those that went to Boston last month, he now knows how strong we really are. I am worried that Kerry did this for the bloggers, and did not consult with the senators.

That said - He did the RIGHT thing. And, Kerry doesn't seem like he would have done this if he
didn't think he had 1/2 a chance. He made a statement, and dammit, this party better show some support.

[ginnyinWI]

4. I think he knows what he's doing.

He has good political smarts, as well as a lot of other kinds. However this comes out, people will know that John Kerry has a spine. And the cause is definitely worth it.

[_dynamicdems]

14. Oh, I agree. He's not going off half-cocked with this idea , that's for

sure. I'd be willing to bet that this has been planned out very carefully. Wouldn't it really be a kick in the ass if this were a shell game like the one Reid played when he shut down the Senate? Senator Kerry might have a strategy that he's working with other Dems. By now, he knows which Dems he can count on. No surprises there. Nothing has been etched in stone at this point. And nobody has actually voted yet.

[ginnyinWI]

18. and today he raise the bar for the other Dems

This is what it means to be a member of the opposition party! He's going to make everyone look twice at the other softer Dems--they're exposed.

[sandnsea]

7. What he found out

Is that the bloggers are just normal every day people, just like the people he met every day on the campaign trail. I honestly think that meeting was divine intervention or something, he really really gets it now. I think he's doing this because he believes it's right, he knows real people stand to lose rights that are essential to their daily lives. I think that meeting really drove it home that people are still depending on him in a very real way.

[whometense]

8. Sniff.

I love the way you put that, and I think you're absolutely right.

I think that meeting really drove it home that people are still depending on him in a very real way.

You are on a roll today!

[sandnsea]

16. aw gee

:blush: I think it must be the company I keep. :)

[Blaukraut]

5. like the others, I think long-term

Look, of course JK is going to take serious hits on this, as evidenced by the NYT piece from tonight. But, as has been pointed out - Alito is not being sent to the SC to sit around and twiddle his thumbs. The radical right and their ilk expect results and Alito will deliver.
The only fear I have is that it may be too late to save the constitution before we can 'fix' the court. Byrd can then pretty much wipe his ass with his pocket constitution for all its value.

By 2008, a lot of Alito damage will have been done, and once again Kerry will have the dubious honor of saying 'I told you so'. He will, however, also be the only one with any credibility when it comes to having shown leadership in the face of adversity. Of course this presupposes that he is going to run, and that there is still a 2 term limit for president. (the last part was a joke, but it's actually not really funny)

[FreedomAngel82]

13. Yep

He's been able to say "I told you so" a lot lately huh?

[Dr Ron]

6. Yes, but I think Kerry will come out ok

Kerry will take some attacks from the right and mainstream media, but that's nothing new. At least this time he's being attacked for a position he's really taking, as opposed to so many attacks where is position has been distorted. He has also improved his position tremendously among the liberal bloggers (even if some are still taking pot shots with nonsense cliams like he waited too long to act).

I'm more nervous that this could divide Democrats at a time when unity is necessary looking towards November.

I support Kerry because blocking Alito is the right thing to do, even if unlikely to succeed, and as he is fulfilling a promise he made in 2003.

As I've discussed in other threads, I also understand Reid's reluctance to go for the filibuster and I have also defended him against the liberal editorials attacking him.

This must not turn into a fight between those who support and do not support the filibuster as that is not ultimately the real issue. The real issue in the long run is not over which tactics to use but over which party would nominate someone like Alito and which would not. Ultimately Kerry and Reid are both on the same side even if they disagree over tactics at the moment.

Ok, I'm taking a very nuanced position. Kerry supporters should understand nuance.

[whometense]

9. Well said!

At least this time he's being attacked for a position he's really taking, as opposed to so many attacks where is position has been distorted.

Nothing new for him at all to have to battle both his opponents and a hateful media.

[wisteria]

10. If Reid can't support the filibuster than I want him to come out and

provide support and understanding for Kerry's position. In other words, treat this call for a filibuster by Kerry as Kerry following his conscious and doing what he feels is necessary to do.

[Dr Ron]

15. Hopefully Reid will not oppose Kerry

I understand Reid's reservations about the filibuster and will not join in on the attacks on him over this.

I also hope, as you said, Reid understands Kerry's reasons for pursuing the filibuster provides support at least on the level of understand that Kerry is following his conscience.

I hope that this doesn't turn into a dispute between the two, or a dispute between Democrats. At the moment Kerry has forced the issue. While there may be valid arguments against the filibuster, if there is an active move such as Kerry's to try to block Alito we must support him as it is right goal Afterwards I hope that Reid and Kerry can agree to having had a disagreement on tactics and work together on common goals of removing those from power who actually support people like Alito.

[wisteria]

22. Agree! n/t

[ProSense]

11. I'm nervous

because I want it to work: stop Alito.

For Kerry:

Not really. I want Kerry to fight his heart out and I hope he drags a lot of the fence sitters to his side. I know Kennedy has his back. Other Senators are coming around. However it turns out, Kerry stood up and showed his mettle. He is one of the few left who will do put conviction ahead of political risk, and one of an even smaller group who will do it when the odds are stacked against him. And look at the prize: protecting civil rights. It's the right thing to do, whatever the outcome.


Kerry = courage

Kerry = conviction


People have been criticizing Kerry everyday since the election, and everyday he's been fighting, supporting, comforting, engaging, advocating, etc., in other words, working his butt off. He has never let up. It's no accident that he is able to do this now. He has earned the right to do it, but it's not by accident that he's doing it. He said he would support this action in the event of an Alito, but the circumstance required him to go another step, lead, and he did.

What are they going to do criticize him more?

The Democrats voting no oppose Alito fot many of the same reasons Kerry stated in his speech, so what are they opposed to: him taking a stand?

Why did they all send out letters and make statements?

Anyway, about the news reports today: Frankly, I don't believe most of the stuff in the press (one of the first things I read this morning was the Couric Dean story).

[FreedomAngel82]

12. That's why I'm holding my breath

I hope it works out. But remember BCCI! Nobody wanted him to do but he did it and was successful. So I hope and pray! I did so much Emailing yesterday I thought my fingers were going to fall off.

[karynnj]

17. I'm not really nervous

although I think there will many of these hit pieces. I'm sure that Kennedy and Kerry are aware of the amount of support they started with om Wednesday. I would assume it is high enough not to be an embarrasment.

The other thing is that they are both acting from principle and are in good standing in their state. As people have pointed out, the RW label of opportunist arguably fits Kerry less well than any Senator in Washington. He has taken on many things that he and everyone else knew could be bad (or even destroy) his career, because when it came down to it he knew it was the right thing to do.

Many of those things (fighting the Contras, fighting Nixon, BCCI, Pow/MIA) were things that he spent years on. What's strange here is the absolute lack of perspective.

Assume the story is true. Why would the Democrats be so upset by this. Here's how it would play out. On Monday they have the cloture vote, Kennedy, Kerry, Durbin and a small number of Democrats vote "no", everyone else votes yes. There's cloture. The next morning they vote, Alito is confirmed. What's the harm? If the Republicans believed this would they even react - probably not. They would just vote and gloat over how few Democrats stood up. Where's the story?

If it works or if it comes close, the Democrats make an issue of civil rights, government balance of power, the constitution, right to choose. Will it get through the impermeable media barrier? I don't know.

My guess is that Sandsea, (I thought she was over reaching) was right earlier this week saying the problem was Hillary. Kerry and Kennedy have made her choose - which group she is in.

Kerry was never the default person who would win the nomination if only he made no major blunders. Where he fits in the primary is as the liberal/moderate who has excellent foreign policy experience and is strong. In a way, he is getting his and Dean's early slots. Hillary is aiming for Kerry's plus Lieberman's (as strong as Bush (or the future Rep))slots. The good thing is that it is who he is and it will keep him in good standing in Massachusetts. This move may keep Hillary from getting the 2004 "Kerry" voters.

If this or other stands pushes Kerry off the list of contenders - it will allow him to be the the "ted Kennedy" of the Senate in the future. (As Kennedy said Kerry is well positioned to be a powerful senator if he wants.) I can't imagine this will defeat him in Massachustts.

[Blaukraut]

19. So you think that

Kerry and Kennedy, aside from doing the right thing here, are calling Clinton out on her opportunism? Kinds like 'shit or get off the pot' ? ('scuse my french here)

[karynnj]

21. I don't know

I doubt they would do it if they didn't believe what they were saying. In Kerry's speech there were times when he clearly was absolutely sick because of things he was talking about. The tone of his voice was so emotional when he spoke of Alito having no problem with someone strip searching a 10 year old girl, shooting a boy for to stop him from escaping with a stolen purse, or using a show of force to get farmers off land they lost to bankrupcy. Obviously Alito couldn't empathize with these people, Kerry did.

He also was deeply disturbed by the shift of power away from the constitution's checks and balances. Similarly, Kennedy made a million points that Alito was never for the little guy and as Kerry also said would make it harder for them to use the courts.

If I can see it puts Hillary in a position where she has to choose, I'm sure the MA Senators saw it immediately. Kennedy and Kerry have been very loyal to each other and I assume they would love anything where Hillary has to define herself - as she has worked hard not to.

I think it might also be related to spending 12 days in some of the most troubled areas of the world and seeing that we are making things worse all the time. Then he comes back to a Bin Laden tape, because we didn't capture him. He then finds that the RW talking points are that Bin Laden sounds like him and the other Democrats. Bush is using his own failure to stifle dissent. Kerry went to Iraq 3 times and made straight forward recommendations of what should be done. This was very serious work and Bush &co translate it as "he's with Bin Ladin"

[whometense]

29. Wonderful post.

I think you are right on target, including what you are saying about Hillary. I don't think it was their intention to put her on the spot, but their taking a hard line on a subject they feel strongly about does pretty much force her hand, and I'm sure they're not sorry about that.

This action will only strengthen their position at home. The voters who will be pissed off by it are the people who would rather die than vote for either man, anyway. THe rest of us are cheering till we're hoarse.

In Kerry's speech there were times when he clearly was absolutely sick because of things he was talking about.

I heard that too. As with just about every single thing Kerry ever says or does, critics right and left will be lining up to take cheap shots at him for opportunism, bleah, bleah, bleah. Those who know him will have no trouble understanding that he is doing it from the heart.

[Blaukraut]

31. I agree

I also believe that both K's are following their hearts and doing what is right. As we have all witnessed so far, they're not exactly hailed and honored for their efforts. I feel so badly for them, and so angry at the other Dems for being the cowards they are. Intended or not, Kerry's and Kennedy's call for a filibuster did force the rest of them to make a choice - and I am glad that choice will be on record.
I'm also not surprised that Clinton, after having sniffed the political air around her, decided to hop on the bandwagon.

[whometense]

32. Yeah.

I'm also not surprised that Clinton, after having sniffed the political air around her, decided to hop on the bandwagon.

What a leader. :sarcasm:

[sandnsea]

23. I agree

Not with the part about me, but the part about Kerry. He really can't lose on this. He's chosen it as a defining moment, probably not THE defining moment, but one anyway. Whether it builds momentum for 2008, or just helps to define Hillary, it's useful. And if it doesn't, he still has his Senate seat and takes Kennedy's place as the lion of the senate, except I see him as the heart of the Senate. Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony? Aloof, wooden, John Kerry becomes the heart and soul of the Senate. I'd like that pretty well too.

[whometense]

30. I love that.

Aloof, wooden, John Kerry becomes the heart and soul of the Senate.

Perfect. Heads would explode, but true is true.

[rox63]

27. Kerry's and Kennedy's MA constituents

will love them all the more for this. The 30-35% of the state that's Rethuglican will still hate them. But that's a given. The 65-70% that are Dems will keep showing them the love :loveya: at the polls for having the cojones to do this.

[TayTay]

28. Oh my Gawd, Rox, I can't wait for the Dem Con in June

We are going to raise the rafters when our Senators are introduced. Raise the rafters. That is going to be one noisy and happy group of Democrats. (Massachusetts takes crap from no one. And neither do our Sens.)

[BlueIris]

20. Yeah, but I'm always nervous about anything Kerry is doing.

He's taken many risks in his career. Most are calculated risks, I think. And ultimately, they're worthwhile risks. This is a big one, though, especially so soon after Kerry decided to address the Iran crisis head-on, so, yeah, I have reservations.

The truth is, I almost wish he hadn't done it, because it threatens Bush and the neocons at a time they are most vulnerable in a way that is deeply threatening to them. But I also feel that Alito really is that bad, and taking an ill-advised long-shot is worth it if there is the possibility it will mess with his confirmation or his role on the Court somehow. I don't think there's anyone better than Kerry to spearhead this effort. If anyone is to try this, it must be a person who can carry it off in a certain way and because of his unique position in government at this time, Kerry is that person. Finally, too many people, citizens and indy media, not interest groups, threatened to cut off support for Kerry if he didn't take this action. As much as I resent them for (IMHO) basically forcing his hand, (fuck Buzzflash) and despite my resolve to support him for 2008 NO MATTER WHAT because I believe he is our last, best chance, a part of me also would have been crushed if he had ignored the desperation of those folks. A part of me would have also worried that he had decided to just take the chance that Alito wouldn't be as bad as some are saying. Alito, if confirmed, (which is still likely, I think) is a major threat in my assessment. I'm not saying the threat he poses will end the world, but--I would have questioned Kerry's judgment a little had he not at least made the attempt to stop...that, by any means necessary. It's comforting to know that once again, I'm not wrong to trust Kerry's judgment. Really comforting.

[wisteria]

24. I see Alito as cementing Bush's power and allowing him even more

I haven't forgotten that it was the US Supreme Court that gave us Bush to begin with. Bush will not hesitate to run to the court whenever it suits his needs.

[Island Blue]

25. I am so pissed off at other Democrats for not supporting him...

I think Kerry KNOWS that what he is doing is extremely risky politically, but he also knows that it's the RIGHT thing to do! Think about it, if President Kerry were sitting in the White House right now and he nominated someone from the far left for this position, do you think the Republicans would waste one moment wringing themselves into knots because they didn't want to offend anyone? Hell fuckin' no they wouldn't! They would filibuster in a heart beat and JK knows it. I think in a way he's sending a message about the kind of person he would nominate to the SC if he were President.

JK also knew going into this that he would be hammered by the media and probably by some members of his own party. He knows EXACTLY what and who he's up against. I think where John Kerry gets his strength these days is from people like all of us and other average Americans he met on the campaign trail in '04. He knows we are worth fighting for!

[TayTay]

26. They are all risky moves

That's what politics is sometimes. The Republicans want the Democrats to stay in their pens, play nice and not make any trouble while they dismantle every good program or law of the last 3/4 of a century. That's what they want. They try to slap down anyone who disagrees with this agenda and they do so without regard to niceties like truth or ethics or morality.

Again, this is what the Rethugs want:

Many wonder what it will take to restore social civility to Washington, to get Republicans and Democrats mingling again. Rock-ribbed Republican Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, proffered a solution, telling us that Democrats must accept the finality of their powerlessness. "Once the minority of House and Senate are comfortable in their minority status, they will have no problem socializing with the Republicans. Any farmer will tell you that certain animals run around and are unpleasant, but when they've been fixed, then they are happy and sedate. They are contented and cheerful. They don't go around peeing on the furniture and such." Norquist assured us that he meant neutered "psychologically" and his metaphor was "facetious." Of course: Let the healing begin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24186-2004Nov4.html

That's what they want. Rethugs to Dems: Shut up, lay down, don't say anything that might rock the boat and we'll let you get in the salad line every now and then. I don't accept that. Apparently, neither does John Kerry.

No one ever won anything in politics by playing nice and pretending this is all a giant tea party. You don't stand there, hat in hand and say, 'Please sir, if you don't mind, I'd like to, ahm, well, you know, ahm, maybe, sort of talk about, ahm, something. Please.' Screw that. You stand up and demand and fight and argue. That's the only way to get change. You have to take risks and fight. Be a hellraiser, ruffle the feathers, take some chances. That's the only way.