So let's say we get our Solstimas Miracle

[Der Blaue Engel]

...or January 20 miracle. Or even eventual justice a few years down the road when * goes down in flames.

What do you suppose all of the naysayers will do then? I don't mean that in a "nyeah-nyeah" sort of way; I'm actually wondering, because I don't know a single person outside of DU who's even paying attention to the "voting irregularities" issues. And I live in a very liberal area (San Francisco), with friends who are generally to the left of the left.

I keep trying to educate them, and all I get are snide comments to "get over it," "keep dreaming," or even those who go to elaborate lengths to explain why it was the exit polls that were flawed, and the Democratic Party's/Kerry's/moveon.org's/youth vote's/elderly's vote, or just about anyone they can think of to trash for us "losing" the election. I swear, it's like living among pod people.

And most of all, they (my dear friends, including my handfasted partner, mind you) are becoming extremely full of hate and vitriol for anyone who lives in a red state, or even a rural area of a blue state. I keep trying to remind them that a) there's not a single state that is truly red if you look at the percentages, b) 51% does not a whopping majority make, and c) there was massive voter intimidation and disenfranchisement, even if you don't believe in the fraud. I mean, what about those poor people in Ohio who stood in the rain for 8, even 12 hours to vote, and were turned away...do they deserve our anti-red-state hatred?

Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked by my own frustration. I'm just wondering how everyone who's saying "get over it" will react when they realize they were wrong. (Because I BELIEVE eventually, hopefully sooner than later, they will.) It seems like it's going to be hard for them to make a 180 degree turn, but then maybe I'm wrong, and they're just protecting themselves from the pain and fear they feel by pretending we haven't been robbed, and they'll rush into the streets in joy along with us.

Just some late afternoon musing on my day off, feeling awfully alone in this "liberal enclave" I live in.

[Withywindle]

1. Be of good cheer...

...even though it's difficult.


Where I'm at (Chicago) I'm hearing a lot of fraud talk. It's a hot topic in the indie-rock bars and at our liberal little office water cooler. Which is also a hothouse, but a different kind I guess. Most people I know think something was fishy somewhere even if they think Kerry would have lost anyway. Hell, even in the Sun-TImes I read this editorial today that made me laugh...it was about how, in 2008, there will be no incumbent (VP, even) for the first time in 56 years...IF Bush and Cheney complete their terms. It repeated that if, if, if way more times than seemed necessary. Maybe I have this stuff on the brain but it really jumped out at me.

Don't get me started on the red-state hate. FUCK people who paint with that broad brush! I have family and good friends in rural Virginia where I grew up who are staunch Democrats and worked their ASSES off, with a lot less support and more risk than I had here in blue-to-the-bone Obamalandslideville.

[LittleClarkie]

3. All you have to do is go to sorryeverybody.com

and you see rural folk and Red State folk, saying they tried.

Imagine being virtually surrounded like that.

I don't here much talk in the bars, but then I live in a very Red County in Wisconsin. I hear more talk in my church. Can you believe that? One lady with two kids talks alot about her brother in Ohio, and how he says there is NO WAY Bush won there. She here's alot of talk when she goes to Madison too. That's our capital and a very liberal area.

Another guy at church is the first one around me who isn't a politico come right out and call Bush Hitler.

So I know not to hate church folk either. :)

My ex-boyfriend feels the same way now that he's seen F 9/11. It took him a while, but now he surprises me when I mention people here getting swastikas burned into their lawns with weedkiller. He laughed. But he doesn't believe in the fraud. He says anyone who thinks the election can be turned around now is an idiot.

I can hope, but I will believe it when I see it. Unlike others here at DU, I think that if all of this isn't done right, that it could be devastating to the country, even more devastating than 4 more years of Bush. People have to believe Kerry won, and that it was stolen, or this is going to be one big damn mess.

And I don't believe the pronouncements from some that we will never have another free election again. I think that's too gloom and doom.

[vinessa4freedom]

2. you're not alone

in your liberal enclave. We're in a society that has been systematically programmed to not think. And the ones that do are in a deep state of fear of speaking out. We're here- you're not alone. When you think of the red states, remember everyone in them isn't red. My best friend is as liberal as I am, and she lives in the middle of Kentucky, which is a textbook, Crayola example of red.

[ginnyinWI]

4. This red-state, blue-state stuff

is just Republican spin. Like Barack Obama says, there are none! I live in a county that went for Bush, 2-1. But 33% of us voted for Kerry, one in three. So they are all around me, unawares. And my state went for Kerry by a small margin. Swing-state Wisconsin, 10 electoral votes!

Enourage your partner not to get caught up in hating, because it can just eat you up. I don't think even John Kerry hates them, but he probably does feel that they have believed lies. So pity them, I guess. He would have been a great president for them as well.

The Dems that can just move on were clearly not as invested in this campaign, either because they were cynical, or just didn't care. My son and daughter-in-law voted for Kerry, but just accept this defeat as "business as usual" in this kind of a world.
I have a harder time because I'm in the same generation with our candidates and our president (I'm 52) and I feel both pride for our candidates, and feel ashamed of the guy from my generation that is leading this county so badly. Maybe that's why it's more personal. So each one has their own level of involvement and reaction to the defeat.

[angrydemocrat]

5. I don't know what the naysayers will do......

...but that will be interesting to say the least. Right now I haven't give up hope on the election but to be honest I feel this is going to bigger than overturning the election itself. I truly believe alot of people are in for the shock of their life. Especially those who aren't political junkies such as ourselves and have went back to their everyday life and forgotten about it. I truly believe this is something that will go down in the history books before all is said and done. But it won't happen overnight and we will continue to have to listen to all the naysayers for a while.

I feel this once they discovered this election was stolen and found out about all the fraud involved it has just been one big plan to bring down those behind it all the way to the top. I feel Kerry has been a part of all of this from day one. I think it was all planned to have the Glibs doing the recounts and Kerry not jumping on ship right away. I feel it was planned to keep Kerry out of the spotlight from the get go and all the talk from the Glibs and others about where's Kerry was planned. I think it was nothing but a cover up not to let it be known that Kerry was involved and it looked as if he was the good little man and went on his way and was no problem. Yeah Right! LOL Repugs and unfortunately some dems asleep at the wheel. Now there was those of us that know what this man is all about knew better.

Then the repugs got a jolting wake up and find their car at the edge of the cliff when Kerry just being the the nice man he is was helping the Glibs and wanted also to make sure all votes are counted joined in the law suit in Delaware county. But he said he knew it won't change the outcome. So repugs spew a little garbage and oh well. Then they fuck up again and drift back off to sleep and damn they get a bigger wake up call and this time the damn front wheels are over the cliff oh shit! this is when Kerry sends the 88 letters. Now he has the assholes fighting for there life and damn isn't it obvious with the garbage the spew. Anyway every move Kerry makes now the fight will get nastier but Kerry and the others already got the repugs asses in the hot seat it isn't going to take much more to push that damn car on over the cliff and there asses are goners.

All the deafening silence I think was planned because never in the history of any election has there ever been this kind of silence especially when there was problems with the election. JJ came out and at one time made the slip up in talking about Kerry being involved on one of the news shows then back tracked and said he wasn't. And when in the hell could anybody shut Al Sharpton up? That ought to tell people a real clue there. This silence was planned the same as Kerry staying out of the spotlight was. There is something big brewing here people and I do mean big. I don't know when it will all go down but when it does all I can say is it will be BIG!

I can see KKKarl sitting at his desk now trying to figure this out and giving Kerry hell the hole time just like Nixon did. He has probably scratched his head already and said this fucker out smarted us. I'm here to tell you KKKarl pick the wrong man to mess with and if Nixon was living he would tell him you are making a mistake here, you are going down the wrong path here, don't fool yourself this man is brilliant take it from someone who knows.

This is starting to remind me of the 70's and I don't say that to be funny it really does. The reason I say this is we have a war in Iraq that is so much Vietnam it is scary. The prison scandals over there. All the stories the soldiers are coming out telling. Soldiers fighting the government for various reasons. The administration is as corrupted as the Nixon administration some being the same people just different positions like Dumbsfield. This country is very much divided as it was then. The election all screwed up. The big protest in NY. Now this big as scandal that is under investigation with the fraud. And leading the fight against all of this is none other than John Kerry himself. Hell all that is missing is the damn hippies.

[New Earth]

6. i've had the same insight in my head all along.

i just hope we are right.

i even remember, after John Kerry conceded, and the two days later that i realized there was fraud, i knew he HAD to know. i just knew and felt inside that there was no way he'd just let it go.

i also think something big is about to break. i feel like i've seen it, or envisioned it. it's just hard to hold onto sometimes when we are only depending on our faith.

but sometimes faith is all we have, and i think when faith is real, it becomes reality.

[angrydemocrat]

8. faye read that last paragraph again

In my post and tell me am I crazy or do you agree.

[New Earth]

9. i do agree

except, i don't necessarily think we are missing our hippies, but we are missing our media.

no one even knows what is going on :(

(regarding the election, anyway)

i do agree about the timing of everything, being so similar to the 70's. it's one of the reason i always thought John Kerry was meant to be President right now, because of how similar the war in Iraq is to Vietnam. It is the perfect time for him, i feel like it is his fate.

ugh it makes me a little depressed to talk about how i feel about him. i never really got into a politician emotionally before, and i don't know him as well as you do and it's hard to hang onto hope sometimes without being afraid of feeling let down. it takes a lot for me to have faith in someone like i do Kerry.


(sorry, i just totally went off on a rampage there)

[angrydemocrat]

13. One thing about it

Kerry is the right man for this. I hate to admit this but come 2008 I don't think this war will be over you wait and see if I'm not right. If the people don't rally behind this man and help him bring these cronies down it is just going to make it harder for him to do so. But rally or not you watch the man do it. If Nixon was alive he would tell that bunch they didn't know what they were doing when it come to this man. That they are underestimating him. I don't know how long it will take him to do it but he will.

[LittleClarkie]

15. We're missing a liberal bias in general

The pendulum hasn't swung back yet.

I don't think you're crazy either Angrydem. It does feel like an odd bit of karma, not only because of Iraq-nam, but because Kerry has investigated folk like this before (came close to Bush Sr.)

I think Poppy is terribly protective of Sonny. While Poppy knows what war feels like, Sonny does not. While Poppy knows what it's like to lose an election, Sonny does not. Insulated his whole life, I reckon. Handed businesses, and now a country, to run into the ground.

[Der Blaue Engel]

33. Yes, I see this too

I'm having the creepiest deja vu about all this. 1974 was a rather unhappy year in my childhood, so Watergate forms a backdrop to the memory of a bunch of fundie brainwashing crap, betrayal, and abuse from authority figures. Maybe that's why Kerry stands out so much to me as someone I can trust. There were so few people in my life that I could back then.

It all comes 'round again.

Blaue

[NamVetsWeeLass]

7. They will say we somehow fixed it, that ** really won

and that Uncle KKKarl was really working for us. Not to mention that Teresa paid off Diebold.... It will somehow based on their cheating, but turned around on us. Maybe they will blame mind control drugs put in Heinz products? Maybe aliens, who knows. I know I will be more than content, I know that I will again be able to say proudly that I am an American, and that JOHN KERRY IS MY PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!

I BELIEVE!!!!!

[angrydemocrat]

10. He is my president to!

I love John Kerry and it pisses me off highly when people say the bullshit lies they do about him! :mad: :mad: :mad: KKKarl working for us is the biggest fuckin joke of all time. Damn these people have lost there minds. I'm so damn glad I stayed away from the other forums they are truly losing it. It is amazing at the total bullshit they come up with!:grr: :grr: :grr: Man people better lay the hell off Kerry because it will blow up in their faces when this man proves what all of us have been saying all along. I'm telling you this man isn't finished fighting people he's not!

[seito]

11. angrydemocrat

Your posts always make me smile.

"People better lay the hell off Kerry" You tell them. :nuke:

I hope you are all actively posting in this forum because I got a feeling we will all need some moral support in the next few days.

You know it is HARD WORK fending off the flying monkeys in the freaky forums. I think it is important though. What do you think????

[angrydemocrat]

17. Seito

I know I get crazy every now and then. Especially when I get mad. I get tired of people bashing my hero and after so long it like a ticking time bomb.:nuke:

[New Earth]

12. so angrydem

how do you deal with malatesta????

please, do tell.....

ignore option?

[angrydemocrat]

14. I tell their ass off all the time

If it the same one I'm thinking about. And usually I make them so mad they leave the thread I'm on or ignore me. LOL

[New Earth]

16. can you go do it now?

he's over there spewing Kerry hate in every thread he can find.

it's actually very entertaining, this guy never has anything else to say.

EVERRRRR

[seito]

18. If you are going, let us know.

I wanna watch. Love a good fight lol!!!!!!

[angrydemocrat]

19. I don't think he wants to deal with me right now!

Glad to know it a man. But I must say by his sorry ass attitude from what I have seen so far someone has already kicked him in the nuts so hard that they shot straight up to his brain and they are still spinning out of control with nowhere to go!:crazy: Bastard better be glad your IQ don't determine the size of his peter because he would definitely be a centimeter peter!:eyes:

[seito]

20. lol!!!

I wonder if the mods ever come and check on us over here

[New Earth]

21. i don't know

but i'm sure none of them can deny how filthy that *certain poster* is.

[angrydemocrat]

22. Who Me?

LOL

[New Earth]

25. no i meant

m*l*t*st* (trying not to call out another DU'er, shh)

[angrydemocrat]

26. Hell Just Call Him

Centimeter Pete

[seito]

30. Mala aren't you a "Little Testy" today

lol!!!

[seito]

23. We should give him a nickname

Maltomeal

Malatard

Malt Balls

[New Earth]

27. how bout

idiotesta

malatesticle - lolllll


lol, here's more:

just 'testy' for short

or 'testes'.

LMAO

[seito]

29. OMG...ROFLMAO

malatesticle

:bounce:

[angrydemocrat]

31. OMG

GOOD ONE!:evilgrin:

[Der Blaue Engel]

32. LOL...this is the only person I have on ignore

I generally avoid putting people on ignore, but this one I just could not take. Relentless. And stupid.

BTW, Faye, I just want to say that your posts in 2004 Election keep me going when I start to get really frustrated. It's nice to see someone fiesty pop up just when it gets bad. :)

As far as that goes, how do you guys keep track of all the names? I catch posts all the time that ring warning bells for me, but then I forget who they were and I get sucked into their shit again in another post. It's that damn tag team thing that throws me off. Just enough of them to keep my head spinning. Should I just keep a list next to my computer? lol

[angrydemocrat]

24. Why Is There Rules Against What I Posted

LOL

[seito]

28. Not that I know of

:)