Hackett liveblogging on dKos; Endorses Webb (sigh)

[beachmom]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/13/195915/286

[JohnKleeb]

1. Indeed but this isn't surprising

I've been trying to keep an open mind on this whole thing but it just doesn't make any sense to me. I've looked at Webb's writings on his website and a lot of it I have to say I don't like. He'll get my vote if he's the nominee I stress again.

[beachmom]

2. Do you have a dKos login?

I'm getting hammered over there, and Hackett hasn't responded to my post. I just put in 4 awful paragraphs that Webb wrote in that USA Today editorial; people shouldn't be pollyanna about Webb. They need to know the facts.

[JohnKleeb]

4. No if i did I'd help you though

Sorry and you're absolutely right. God I wanted to be fair minded abut this guy but he just smells trouble.

[fedupinBushcountry]

3. I don't have an account there

You might also ask about his stance on affirmative action.

"A Soviet-style bureaucracy of political commissars now monitors every level of our society to ensure that racial and gender `diversity' matches preordained models, using the awesome powers of government to make certain that white males are not `overrepresented' in education, employment or government contracts," Webb wrote in a column first published in the Wall Street Journal and now available on his campaign Web site.

[JohnKleeb]

5. Blah

Did you guys know that he wrote a very positive article about McCain back in 2000 and his war time service which is fine because he wrote about McCain in Vietnam and I admire McCain for that despite how he's acting now however in the infamous USA Today op-ed he slams Kerry for formalizing relations between the US and Vietnam. Kerry's partner in that none other than John McCain. God I feel so confused by this.

[saracat]

59. McCain is my Senator and there is nothing left to admire.

His voting record is a horror and he betrayed his wife and children to suck up to a man who disrespected them publicly. McCain is a dishonest politician who financially raped the retiree of Arizona in the Keating Five Scadal and got away with it. He has never actually "done' anything for the state of Arizona. We are a major "donor' state and get nothing. We don't even have a highway program we desperately need.John McCain is a worthless POS.He is one of the world's biggest hypocrites. Ask him what he "really " thinks is Campaign Finance Reform". Better yet, ask him what he thinks of "Fairness in Broadcastng" and ask what he has done about it. I've asked him and the answers aren't pretty.Nothing to be confused about John.McCain has always been worthless and dishonest. It is now just more obvious when people aren't blinded by the PR of the "Straight Talk Express".

[JohnKleeb]

60. No doubt about that

My point was that Webb is the hypocrite for criticizing Kerry in his USA Today Op-Ed for supporting nationalization of trade between the US and Vietnam but he wrote a glowing praise of McCain in 2000 but McCain is the one who helped make that happen too. I am not saying McCain is a decent senator but that Webb is a crite.

[saracat]

63. I haven't read the Webb quote but I just bridled at

you still admiring McCain. It is your perogitive , of course. I just couldn't see what for. I heard Webb on AAR and at least what I heard re choice and gay rights, he sounded okay but I would have to know a heck of a lot more all things considered!

[JohnKleeb]

65. I dont admire McCain politically, I have a respect for his naval service

That is all, I dont know how you got the impression I said I admire McCain politically, I was merely pointing something out.
I pointed out that Webb went after Kerry for supporting normalizing relations with Vietnam but wrote a piece in 2000 praising McCain who was Kerry's senate parnter in getting that accomplished. Webb's comments about Kerry are disgusting if you read them. I don't like McCain politically and think what he's done lately is disgusting and I am glad that it won't get him the republican party nomination. If you want read why I and the other Virginians feel uncomfortable with Webb go to his website.

[saracat]

67. Thanks John I will. The KOS diary was an eye opener.

[JohnKleeb]

68. I am sorry I made it seem like I said I admired McCain politically

I personally he's full of shit. How anyone could think he was for real after giving that commencement speech at Liberty college is beyond me. Yeah the guy seems to talk a good deal but I don't trust him. He's a former Reagan appointee and his criticism of the anti war left during the Vietnam years is really outrageous plus in his USA Today article he called Kerry a darling of the liberal media because of what he did in the VVAW.

[karynnj]

6. Hackett's fame seems to have gone to his head

I heard a small part of him guest hosting one of the AAR shows. He was talking about Zinni's comments and how the Senators and Congressmen should have known - ignoring that Zinni sppoke out only after the vote (but before the invasion). He really was unlikable and seemed to have way too high opinion of himself.

I'm not surprised that he endorsed Webb at all - I think they are both opportunists who were genuinely against the war but really Republicans - the problem is they are not Democrats.

[JohnKleeb]

8. I dont think Hackett is really a republican

However, I do think he has entitlement issues somewhat. I think while he did do a nice job in that election against Schimdt in the second district there in Ohio, it was overblown because that special election had a very low turnout. I don't think he's a bad guy but Sherrod Brown the man the democrats are running against DeWine is a good guy and the way things are being framed by the so called netroots, Brown is actually a moderate DLCer war supporter blah blah while in reality Brown is one of the more liberal members of the Ohio delegation. Now Webb we know was intilaly a democrat but switched to the GOP after Carter's election and now claims to be a Democrat again. It's really confusing for me because I want to have an open mind with this guy but I am having a hard time seeing what is seen in him. Perhaps it's my very anti Reagan bias that and his affiliation with them that makes me queasy.

[karynnj]

11. He suposedly was a registered Republican before he went to Iraq

Take that with a grain of salt - I read it on the internet.

[JohnKleeb]

14. I hadn't heard that

I do know that Ohio unlike Virginia does have party registration. I am not techncially a registered Democrat. Just looked at Hackett's journal on Kos, I really am tryign to see what people see in Webb. I mean Miller is by no means the candidate of my dreams but how ironic that kossacks the same damned bunch of elitist snobs that whined that Kerry supposely won the primaries because he was the most "electable" now want Webb because he's more electable than Miller. Webb's quotes comparing affirmative action to a Soviet system are upsetting. I am trying really hard to keep an open mind but god this guy is hard to like.

[whometense]

13. I've heard him a few times on

AAR and Ed Schultz, and I think he's yet another loose cannon who doesn't filter his thoughts through his brain before he expresses them. He fits the lefty freeper profile real well - like Dean, like Biden on Bill Maher last week, like whoever else they choose as the flaqvor of the month.

They love the people who speak out, and label the thoughtful people spineless. I was not impressed with Hackett. I thought he was arrogant and impolitic. The adulation of the lefty freepers may have gone to his head.

[fedupinBushcountry]

7. One other thing

He endorsed Allen for Governor and Senator, umm when actually did he become a Democrat? We don't need 2 republican parties.

[JohnKleeb]

9. Governor too?

and someone in the Virginia group criticized Miller for thanking Allen for supporting a technology bill. Did you get my PM by the way?

[fedupinBushcountry]

12. I read it

somewhere, and now I can't find it.

Just read your PM, thanks. Also iller asked for Allen's resignation, now I can't remeber why.

I do not trust Webb, he has a big ego, and I am afraid of what he will vote for and what he will vote against in the Senate. I do not trust him, and I will not vote for someone who is really a Republican in Dem clothing, just because he knows he can get away with it.

[whometense]

15. I keep thinking he's a Rove plant -

a republican mole running as a dem who will once elected turn around and become a republican again - in deed if not in name. Something about this guy just sets my teeth on edge.

[wisteria]

22. I have said the same thing in the past. If the only reason he is running

as a Democratic is because of the war, than it will be easy for him to change parties without blinking. Being from VA, it wouldn't hurt him at all IMO. As far as hackett, I question his motives in all of this.

[JohnKleeb]

23. I dont think thats at all unreasonable to asusme

Ive been reading his past articles and such from the last ten years and I sm confused by this guy. Bah the netroots baffle me every time. He'll have my vote if he's the nominee but I just don't see what the big deal is. No, Miller isn't perfect and he won't be the best senator ever but I think he'd be better than Webb. God I feel like slamming my head.

[JohnKleeb]

16. I think it was because of Allen sayign he was bored iwht the senate

It really is unnerving for me personnally even though I am not a total dove on peace and war issues however all that I know about the Vietnam War tells me that it was a mistake and that blaming the protestors of that war is the wrong thing to do which is exactly what Webb seems to be doing in that article. I sure as hell wouldn't like it if say thirty years from now we have a candidate for the senate who was in Iraq who blames those who protested the war for its failure. Sigh I want to be open minded and fair but this is hard to do with a guy like Webb. He's a former Reagan appointee and Ive got a strong anti Reagan bias I admit.

[karynnj]

19. He somehow sees his current anti-war status as meritorious

but thinks people who were anti-war in VN are bad -not a very thoughtful person

[JohnKleeb]

21. Thats what I think makes me uneasy about him

My dad was one of those protesting the war in Vietnam. I've dealt with too much faux justification for Vietnam and blaming the opponents of the war. My international relations professor when we discussed Vietnam blamed those who opposed the war for its failure.

[MH1]

28. My suspicion about Webb being anti Iraq war

is that for him it was only a question of it being bad strategy.

[karynnj]

18. That's a really stupid criticism

Miller wouldldn't be doing his job if he only convinced Democrats on a bill important to his association. A thank you when someone does is common courtesy as well as good business practices.

[JohnKleeb]

20. I thought it was mild compared to what Webb's done for Allen

I must admit I have a slight comfort level with Miller. My state senator is backing him and she's quite socially liberal. Everyone's taking this Miller I am old testament thing way out of context. He has a "tough on crime" mindset I read to his mother being mugged. Hell I bet Webb supports the death penalty because a large part of Allen's campaign when he ran for and won governor here was tough on crime. I went to www.opensecrets.org and Miller has by and large given to Democrats. Miller isn't going to be what Kerry is to Massachuetts, or what Frank Lautenberg is to your state, but I think he would be decent, Webb though something about him makes me uneasy even though my foreign policy mindset has changed over the last two years.

[fedupinBushcountry]

10. Seems like the same ole same ole

You have done a good job posting over there, but I see that Hackett doesn't have the time to answer you. He's to busy talking to all his homies.

[MH1]

17. I'm there now

I'm just livid about this crap...

Anyone who has any energy left, do me a favor and help my posts.

I'm done with Hackett.

[karynnj]

24. I tried backing you and beachmom

We were pretty outnumbered. (A little to the left - certainly wasn't by 60s standards.)

[beachmom]

26. Are you KarenC on dKos? n/t

[karynnj]

36. Yeah

I had registered for an id a long time ago and had never logged in - but they keep them under your email - My last name begins with C. (When I came here - I liked Ginny's because it said her state so I changed to Nj.

[MH1]

29. Heh, you got that right. ;-)

Good job...you made some excellent posts.

[beachmom]

25. Hi guys; I think we got our message out rather well!

Thanks to MH and KarenC. I was getting exhausted by the end; but it was so cool, because I was alone for about an hour and I think I was winning the arguments. All they could say was "so you want George Allen for prez?", because they couldn't defend Webb's remarks. Or worse, they defended his remarks, and no doubt probably pissed off a lot of lurkers who were against the Vietnam War.

I was disgusted by the smears of Harris Miller. They never provided real links for their accusations. And one of their remarks, unbeknownst to them, won't work with me. My husband, who is European, came over here on an H1-B visa!! I think, MH, that you aren't too thrilled with the H1-B visa program, but I can tell you that my hubby did NOT bring the salaries down in his particular field. There were simply a shortage of American workers who had the level of expertise my husband had. I think now there are plenty of Americans for those jobs, but at the time, it was the Y2K crunch, and I think it was the right thing to do to have the H1-B visas (okay, so I am completely biased on this issue!).

As we have talked about before, Miller isn't perfect, but Webb is really a lousy campaigner and not even a Democrat. He only gets props on the web and nationally. So far, there has been scant info in my local paper about the race. All of this prelim stuff is IRRELEVANT. What matters is local coverage, and that's closer to the primary.

I noticed, FedupinBushcountry, that there was someone on the thread from Virginia Beach. I wanted to find Democrats around here, but not Webbies. That's right -- they're Webbies. And they're as bad as Deaniacs (if not worse, because at least Dean is a REAL Democrat). If Webb loses, and then Miller loses in the general, people will talk about this for YEARS. I guess we'll have to deal with it.

[JohnKleeb]

27. What were they smearing Miller about?

At least the guy has been supporting Democrats in Virginia over the last decade and a half unlike uhh a certain someone. We got a hard road to go honestly, I wish that these people would stop being so damned hypocritical. No, Miller ain't perfect but I think he's better than Webb, and this assumption that just because of his record he will be more likely to beat Allen is bullshit. As far as I know Miller is running a campaign based on what's work with Warner and Kaine. I don't know what Webb's stragety is. The guy is confusing the hell out of me. God everytime I try to be impartial and objective it just doesnt work.

[beachmom]

31. They said that Miller is a Republican out to destroy the Middle Class

I know he was a lobbyist, but the way they were describing it, he's some kind of robber baron creating 98% unemployment all over Virginia. Until I receive decent links to credible news organizations (not pro-Webb blogs), the whole thing stinks to high hell. If the guy is so evil and greedy, why has he helped Democrats so long, and why is he running for the Senate as a Democrat? Look, the guy might be like a Biden or a Landrieu. He'd probably vote for, say, the Bankruptcy bill. He'd probably vote against an Alito filibuster. I have no illusions here. But how is Webb any better? And Webb, of course, has a Republican past AND said those unforgiveable (unless he recants) things about Kerry. Seriously, if he came out and said he was sorry, I was sincere in that thread, I would take a second look. But we all know he will NEVER do that. He is a small man, who can never admit that he was wrong. I don't want him as my Senator. Except if my other choice is Allen.

[JohnKleeb]

33. Good lord

I've read Miller's bio when he announced he was running. The guy got his political start on the Robert F. Kennedy campaign. Seriously I am opposed to outsourcing and the like so I have a disagreement with Miller there however Miller has shown in some of the stuff he has said that he is pro labor. Webb is as you said a former republican/Reagan appointee. Those things said about Kerry and the anti war movement disgust me. I think he has entitlement issues honestly. Sigh I just dont see what the big deal in Webb is, yes hes former military and etc but what has he done to improve Virginia since the Allen-Gilmore debacle years. Miller isnt a bad guy, is he great? no but better htan Webb I think so.

[karynnj]

38. You can tell he's unlikely to

by his editorial this year - Kerry's service was voluntary ... which it actually wasn't to some degree because they told him he couldn't postpone it. But isn't that like describing food as "edible". As his service went far beyond, "voluntary" and it was clear that he couldn't logicly be left out, it seems Webb was gritting his teeth in even including him. (It totally surprises me that Kerrey has anything to do with him.)

[sandnsea]

30. That was a different time

Oh absolutely, we needed old school programmers big time during Y2K. Is that what your husband did, the old Cobalt and such? I remember that there was a real crunch.

[beachmom]

34. Actually, it was SAP which was more prevalent in Europe

Now a lot of American companies use it. It was a way to skirt the Y2K problem -- convert to SAP and you were ready for 2000. It wasn't just my husband -- I was friends with a ton of foreigners over here on the H1B visa. I don't know; all the talk against it strikes me as . . . anti-immigrant. I realize there are valid arguments for being against it, but the people struck me as sounding much like the RW Republicans who want to build tall fences. I guess we Democrats are pretty divided on that issue, too. We've just been quieter about it.

[MH1]

44. Hey, your hubby does SAP?

That is my occupational affliction too!

Telll your hubby from me...

:toast:

We can wrestle about H1B's another time. ;-)

(I'm not against them completely. I'm against major expansion of the program. But...later.)

[whometense]

32. You did a fantastic job -

a real warrior woman!!!

[beachmom]

37. I've got a very tall dashing Senator as a role model!

I really felt like a Kerry warrior over there!! It was so easy, because we've all discussed everything before, that my fingers just typed at lightening speed. And then MH and KarenC (Karynnj) (who are still kicking a** and taking names over there) came just when I needed a break. And I think I just saw Mass (you're FrenchGirl, right?). These people don't quite know what hit them. I really think we have something here, guys. We're all honing our skills which MAY be put to good use in '08.

[WildEyedLiberal]

40. Isn't that a magical feeling?

When you KNOW exactly what to say, what points to make, how to refute the idiotbots' arguments point by point? It is a glorious rush, and makes me feel like I've actually done something real to swing some support towards JK (or against Webb, or whoever, or whatever the issue of the day is). Well done!

[beachmom]

50. I have to say you inspired me, WEL

I think last week I was lurking on a thread, and someone said some stupid stuff and you kept at him. You didn't back down even when he was trying to guilt trip you. You called his bluff. And that's exactly what I (and everyone else here) did tonight. They were defenseless against our barrage because WE WERE RIGHT and the truth was on our side.

[WildEyedLiberal]

52. Awww, I'm honored

My pugilistic nature has finally served me well! :D

Was this at DKos or DU you saw this? I don't remember any particular duke-it-out flamewars, but maybe that's because they're so frequent, LOL, how sad...

And you're absolutely right. There is no stopping the TRUTH. We will always prevail in the end. :patriot:

[beachmom]

55. Fairly miner thread on DU: one sentence "you don't know war"

I felt like there was a guilt trip aspect to it, like HE fought in war and YOU didn't, and you just steamrollered that guy. After he kept saying the same thing over and over, it became obvious that he was just some kinda weirdo.

[WildEyedLiberal]

58. Ohhhhhhh okay

That guy was NUTS. It was so easy to take him apart because it was clear he was completely and totally off his rocker. He just kept repeating the same bullshit over and over (which I didn't believe, incidentally).

Talking to him was an exercise in banging my head against a wall, but I am glad at least that you gleaned inspiration from it. A diamond in the rough, if you will. :D

[JohnKleeb]

35. From an editoral 2 months before the election

"By contrast, Kerry's leadership of Vietnam Veterans Against the War is not only fair game; it speaks to legitimate issues of loyalty, and his actions at that time are the true core of this dispute. For most veterans it was not that Kerry was against the war, but that he used his military credentials to denigrate the service of a whole generation of veterans. The Vietnam Veterans Against the War was a very small, highly radical organization. Their stories of atrocious conduct, repeated in lurid detail by Kerry before the Congress, represented not the typical experience of the American soldier, but its ugly extreme. That the articulate, urbane Kerry would validate such allegations helped to make life hell for many Vietnam veterans, for a very long time."
What I wonder is if Kerry denigrated veterans so much how come the guys who were actually on the boat with him were his proudest and loudest defenders. I also don't know why Webb is so adamant in denying that attrocities didn't happen. My Lai for one and I am sure there were others. I dont have anything against the soldiers from that time period but Kerry had every right to do what he did. That war was a mistake and it resulted in the deaths of 56,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese. Perhaps we had the right intention going in to start but it soon went to hell when reality stepped in.
Quoting Webb again.
" The Swifties have made their point, and after thirty years of bitterness John Kerry has earned the karma that they brought him." Ok Kerry earned their karma by being one of the senate's biggest supporters of Veterans rights. Gimme a break.
http://www.jameswebb.com/articles/NPR/npr8%2024%2004.htm

[WildEyedLiberal]

41. "Legitimate issues of loyalty"???

Did that motherfucker just call Kerry a TRAITOR??

God help James Webb if I ever see him. He'll get a verbal reaming he'll never forget.

[JohnKleeb]

42. Yeah and keep in mind he wrote this

In late August 2004 a good two months and two weeks before the election. Is Webb ok with returning Iraq veterans who are running for congress questioning the war's conduct? Kerry had every right to question the Vietnam war but Mr. Holier Than Thou seems to think that its ok to accuse Kerry of treason. Thanks for noticing that one I didnt notice it. Netroots they baffle me to no end.

[MH1]

45. Yaeh! What you said.

Bastard.

[JohnKleeb]

46. It just sucks really

I understand that some of the Vietnam era Vets were upset at what Kerry said but you know what as I said even McCain who was very against Kerry getting elected in the first place to the senate actually accepted him later. Now, McCain has become a douchebag over the years but I did see him say in 1996 that he would not even think about working to remove Kerry from the senate. I still dislike McCain for backstabbing Kerry in 2004 and won't forgive that because it was a slimy thing to do but at least he hasn't said that Kerry's loyality should be questioned like Webb did. Wonder what the Webster thinks of Cleland. A lot of guys were angry leaving Vietnam and it's hard not to blame them. I wish my state had more congresspeople with more broader appeal than what we got.

[karynnj]

57. It depends how you interrept that paragraph

If loyalty means to the country - he comes super close. If it's to the military - it's almost worse. Anyway, it's way beyond any criticism Kerry deserved. So, yeah Webb is a creep.

The problem with Webb is that he doesn't want to admit there were atrocities - but the facts are on Kerry's side that there were. Also, even if there were absolutely no atrocities and it was mass hysteria, Kerry said he was reporting what was said. Kerry believed that no one would admit to awfule things they didn't do. At worst, he was naively reporting someon else's lie. The other thing is that it was a minor part of Kerry's testimony when in fact most people lucky enough to be in his position would have spent the whole time on it.

[beachmom]

47. Thanks -- I put those quotes in the dKos thread.

I also defended Miller and my husband against these people. They're just disgusting!!

[JohnKleeb]

49. No problem

I am telling you the isolationism some on the left scares the bejeebus out of me. I sm not a supporter of free trade like Miller is but I don't think he's a bad man because of it.

[JohnKleeb]

39. From the infamous USA today article

"o be sure, Kerry deserves condemnation for his activities as the leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (WAW). In the early 1970s,this small organization - never more than 7,000 veterans out of a potential pool of 9 million- became the darling of the anti-war movement and the liberal media. Its activities went far beyond simply criticizing the politics of the war to repeatedly and dishonestly misrepresenting the service of Vietnam veterans and the positive feelings most felt after serving."
Again I ask how come Kerry got defended by the guys on his swift boat who were there with him that time etc. The liberal media, sheesh talk about repeating a RW talking point.

"The view that Kerry remained on the "wrong side" of the war was compounded by his failure to consult with leaders of America's million-plus Vietnamese community while playing a dominant role in the normalization of relations with communist Vietnam during the early 1990s."
Yet Mr. Webb you have nothing but praise for John McCain in a 2000 article you wrote, do you know who the senator's partner in normalization with Vietnam was, it was none other than John McCain who despite being a jerk politically doesnt run his yap about how Kerry betrayed Vietnam vets, McCain forgave Kerry once he got to know him, can't you?

To be fair in this same article he is critical of Bush too but this astounds me.


http://www.jameswebb.com/articles/variouspubs/usatoday.htm

[ProSense]

48. Anyone who claims to be against the Iraq war

and claims to be a Democrat and finds Kerry's testimony against the Vietnam lie of a war is a hypocrite of the worst kind. It's okay for everyone to pull out the comparisons to Vietnam to show what's wrong with Iraq, but these hypocrites want to pretend that Vietnam was something it was not. Vietnam was a lie, the leadership sucked and Kerry's testimony was one of the best things to happen during that time. These hypocrites see Abu Ghraib, torture, secret prisons and everything else associated with Iraq and the Bush administration's policies on the war. Do they see the critics (including themselves) of this war in the same light they hold Kerry? They are dishonest bastards. They should have been as bold and courageous as Kerry to stand up and speak out about the Vietnam war.

[WildEyedLiberal]

43. Reading the thread now

Congrats, you guys - you are kicking ass and taking names in there.

[JohnKleeb]

51. Blah

"Harris Miller is a well healed special interest machine that the dem national party supports only because they think he can pour his own money in the race. He's one of the country club boys. He's supported rotten republican causes and knows nothing of service, commitment or leadership. He'll get chewed up and spit out by Karl Rove on national security issues. When Karl gets done with him he'll look like he go put through a pencil sharpener then run through a potato ricer. Aside from that, he's in it for himself and other than that, Harris is a hell of guy. Come on folks let's win one."
Hackett's words. I think that's unfair to say that Miller is country club just because he is now wealthy. The guy grew up in a working class area for crying out loud. I think it's funny that the Webb folks think that labor will chew him out when Webb is the one affiliated with the administration that diminished labor's power in this country. I am really getting disgusted by all of this bullcrap honestly. He basically calls Miller a lackey for the democratic establishment then says he's a hell of a guy. I appreciate Webb's service to his country however I don't appreciate his comments to those who disagree with wars that he supports.

[WildEyedLiberal]

53. Wow, I'm liking Hackett less and less

Does he even know anything at all about Miller? Or is he just spewing the latest Kosbot tripe?

I dislike people who open their loud mouths without engaging their brains first.

I'm glad he dropped out of the Ohio race, now. I admit my alarms first started going off about him after he was such a spoiled crybaby about that whole ordeal - this pretty much confirms my suspicions.

[JohnKleeb]

56. It sounded like Kos tripe to me

I am not a huge fan of Miller because of the union background however I was impressed with Miller's video where he said he wanted to bring what has worked here in the commonwealth to the senate. I mean isn't that awful? :sarcasm: His behavior in regards to Sherrod Brown was bullshit in my opinion. Brown is a fine guy who will make a great senator. Also here's proof how bad a guy Harris Miller is :sarcasm:
Senator Janet D. Howell of Fairfax County: "Harris has worked hard to support me and other Democrats across Virginia for the past fifteen years. I know that he will be a strong voice for women in the U.S. Senate.
Yeah Paul he's really embraced the Republicans but I guess Janet Howell doesn't know anything.

[saracat]

61. I still like Hackett. And I don't think what the Party did was right.

I don't think he should have shut his mouth and just taken the abuse. Schumer "ASKED" Hackett to run. It was Hackett who first went to Brown and offered to not run if Brown wanted to.Brown didn't WANT to run. After Hackett announced and was raising money and working hard, Schumer decided he wanted Brown and Brown broke his word to Hackett. Some may say that is just politics but it still stinks. We have had a similar situation in my state with a congressional race that our State Chair has now entered. In this case, I happen to think our Chair has a better chance to beat JD Hayworth but the way the former candidate was treated was completely unacceptable. The Democratic Party has a way of treating our candidates badly, including John Kerry. I will never condone or respect that behavior.

[sandnsea]

69. Did you read that post?

Did you read the lies these people told about Tammy Duckworth? Now they're doing the same thing to Miller. Not to mention the wacky stuff Webb has already said. I don't know what is wrong with these people, but their hate-peddling is way too much for me. I don't like Rovian politics any better from the left than the right. That's why people don't pay attention to anything that's going on or bother to vote anymore.

[JohnKleeb]

70. Here's who Miller has given money to since 1990

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=miller%2C+harris&txtState=VA&txtZip=&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt2006=Y&txt2004=Y&txt2002=Y&Order=N
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=miller%2C+harris&txtState=VA&txtZip=&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt2000=Y&txt1998=Y&Order=N
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=miller%2C+harris&txtState=VA&txtZip=&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt1994=Y&txt1996=Y&Order=N
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=miller%2C+harris&txtState=VA&txtZip=&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt1992=Y&txt1990=Y&Order=N
I don't deny that there are some Republican donations in there but by and large Harris Miller has given to the Democratic Party. I don't like the mudslinging either, it's dishonest and hypocritical.

[saracat]

71. I just read it. My other comments are below! I don't like these tactics

from anyone either .But the fact that I may not like what some are saying about Kerry or comments about other candidates doesn't make what Schumer and Brown did any better. This becomes quid pr quo. And it hurts us any way you slice it.Bah! Humbug. A pox on all their houses. I wish we had some ideals left. I like to think there are some good politicos to support Kerry! :)

[sandnsea]

72. I didn't think you would

But the fact that Hackett is the one engaged in it now makes me question the truth of what he said about Schumer and Brown too.

[saracat]

94. But Schumer admits at least part of that .As does Brown.

The only thing in question was their drying up Hackett's funds. And I KNOW they do that kind of thing. They did it in Arizona, not once but several times. It is very much business as usual.If we could get both sides to play clean, this wouldn't happen. I think Hackett is reacting and it isn't pretty!

[beachmom]

54. Okay, I don't like Hackett.

I think we all talked about him when he came out of the race, and people were wondering about the Machine (Schumer) -- were they quelching democracy, were they fair, etc.? I think that Schumer saw that Ohio was winnable and made the decision that Hackett would blow it, and planned accordingly. The only reason why the Machine hasn't eliminated Webb (not a good candidate by Machine standards nevermind the "Kerry factor") is that Miller isn't that strong either, and this is not a "targeted" race. Or does anyone know if Party money is swooping in for Webb?

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but no matter the results of the primary . . . we might be stuck looking at Barfbag in SFRC meetings come '07. I'm more hopeful about my Congressional district which has a Democrat unopposed. Our fighting Dem bowed out to the Machine, and is working for Kaine. As much as I liked David Ashe, upon further reflection, Phillip Kellam (who comes from a very old family from here) has a better shot of winning. Sometimes the Machine is wiser.

[sandnsea]

62. Oh.My.God.

I didn't go over to that thread because I just don't know enough about the race to make a comment. So I missed this. I think that must be the worst piece of garbage I've ever read from a Dem primary. If he was putting this kind of stuff out in Ohio, no wonder they decided to dump him. This is awful awful stuff. Actually shocking.

[JohnKleeb]

64. The thing is

My state senator who I quoted there, Janet Howell knows far more about how Virginia state politics work than Hackett will ever. I wish he could be honest and say the real reason why he is backing Webb is because of Webb's military background. I mean I tried so hard to be objective on this but its just not honest what Hackett said there. Its perplexing as hell.

[karynnj]

74. I heard Hackett on AAR

There was an obnoxiousness to the self-satisfied way he spoke about things. He was speaking about General Zinni's comments on MTP when I was listening. His comments on the Democrats in Congress were disturbing - very like on some DU threads. I think there's been a little too much adoration of anybody who ever was in the military who is speaking against Bush. (We can find real Democrats for that.)

What bothers me about this is that for the real long time Democratic leaders, they have titmus test after litmus test - fail one and you're a DINO. So what if any sane person can see they have been good Democrats for 20 30 years. Then they follow Hackett of Brown - and don't ask their positions on anything or even to explain their recent conversions. This stinks.

[saracat]

66. Hm.I really don't like Hackett's defense of Webb's Kerry attack.

It smacks of exactly what he accuses the poster of doing, vengeance. Don't like it at all. Hackett was badly treated but this isn't right and Webb is out of line!

[JohnKleeb]

73. I did some reading up on Miller

If anyone wants to debunk anything, mention the fact that Miller was chairman of the Fairfax Coutny Democratic Party from 1986-1993. That he was appointed to advisor committees by Governors Bailes, Wilder, and Warner to advisory committees. He also was legislative director for former U.S. Senator John Durkin (D-N.H.), and Deputy Director of Personnel Management for Congressional Relations in the Carter Administration. There are many people in that journal saying that he's no democrat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris_Miller

[karynnj]

75. Thanks Kleeb,

Ironic that there charge against the person who has certifiably been a Democrat since the 70s is that he's not a Democrat, but their darling was a Republican in this century - and very likely still is. Something is very wrong here. I think Hackett has had his 15 minutes of fame. Other than be an Iraq war veteran and call Bush a chicken-hawk, which my Democratic to the bone Senator did much better and with humor, what is his claim to fame.

[JohnKleeb]

76. The late 60's actually is when he got his start

Miller got his start working on the anti war candiancy of Robert F. Kennedy. Did you read my links to open secrets by the way? One can't deny that Miller has given to republican candidates but has by and large been Pro Democratic. I mean it's very telling that Miller was appointed to positions by Gerald Ballies, Doug Wilder, and Mark Warner but NOT George Allen or Jim Gilmore. The first three guys are democrats and the latter two are Republicans. Oh your senator Lautenberg is a great guy, he's amazing really, he's 82 and still has a great amount of fight and wit in him. I admit I do understand their uneasyness about his views on trade but the facts are he's a democrat when it comes down to it. I was thinking about Webb's dismissive attiude of Vietnam War critics too. Did you know that the World War II commander of the 82nd Airborne, General James Gavin was an early opponent of Vietnam/ I think you're right about Hackett having 15 mins of fame and the like. Thsi endorsement really won't hurt or harm Webb in the primary if you ask me.

[karynnj]

77. I also agree with you on:

"This endorsement really won't hurt or harm Webb in the primary if you ask me." I doubt HacKett is that well known off the internet. My biggest concern is that they seem to be trying to generate an "electability" argument - where at this point neither look likely to beat Allen. The best shot was likely Warner, who unfortunately is running for (vice) President.

[JohnKleeb]

78. It really is too bad that Warner isn't running

He would have won. Yeah Hackett's endorsement is just that an endorsement. I only know of two important names in Virginia State politics that have endorsed him, Leslie Bryne who was the Lt Governor candidate last year it seems that she's based her support for him on the war issue and Chip Petersen who was the other candidate in the Lt Governor primary and lost to Bryne. However a whole bunch of Fairfax County area democrats including my own state senator are backing Miller. Kaine and Warner are definely are gonna stay out of this one. I really wish Warner had run instead. Oh well. I wish we had better candidates. I am not 100% fond of Miller but I like him somewhat and know he's a democrat, the trade issue makes me a little uneasy but I dont think hes a republican.

[ProSense]

79. Thanks for all the research.

The fact is Miller by his donations and political activities and affiliations makes him a great Democratic candidate. Frankly, primary battles aside, I do not understand the nastiness some engage in to make their point. Stick to the facts.

I wonder if Webb supports this group in its opposition to Iraq?

Vietnam Veterans Against the War Statement on John Kerry

Since Vietnam Veterans Against the War's inception in 1967, tens of thousands of vets, GIs and supporters have participated in and supported the actions of VVAW. One of those members in the early 1970s was John Kerry.

VVAW national leader Al Hubbard appointed Kerry to the VVAW Executive Committee to assist in preparing Dewey Canyon III, VVAW's limited incursion into the land of Congress in 1971. Kerry made his greatest contribution to the anti-war movement and to VVAW in his speech to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on April 23, 1971. Content of the speech is found at: http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Manifestos/VVAW_Kerry_Senate.html

[JohnKleeb]

80. It was no problem

The guy's attiude frankly sucks and I think he's a hypocrite too. We only have three Democratic congresspeople in the state and none of them honestly would make great senate candidates. That's too bad really since Webb I really dislike and Miller who I like a little but could be better but the way he's being treated by the so called activists really ticks me off. The problem with the netroots to me at least is that they make certain candidates grassroots and other ones not. They did it with Kerry in the 2004 primaries. Supporters of Dean mainly thought they and they only were the grassroots and that just wasn't true. Anyhow there's an article in today's Washington post metro section about how unions are upset with Miller's support of that visa and outsourcing. That to me is legitimate criticism especially in regards to outsourcing and the like, however in the article I did not see a mention of what Webb thinks about outsourcing and the H1 Visa. He's been vague on most domestic issues thus far.

[ProSense]

81. The netroots is

part of the grassroots, but its not the entire grassroots.

Anyway, what are some of your concerns with Miller?

[JohnKleeb]

83. I am concerned with his support of outsourcing,

his more social conservatism, he called himself an old testament guy, though in regards to crime I understand him because his mother was mugged when he was a young adult and I can see why that affects someone. I don't think he's a bad guy though.

[ProSense]

87. Thanks!

This is good to know. I'll have to check him out.

[JohnKleeb]

89. No problem

The thing is these blatantly false allegations that he's just a wealthly lobbyist who shells out moeny to both parties is flat out false. I mean if that were the case I think he would have actually worked for one Republican and been appointed by the two Republican governors we've had since he got in to Information Technology. Is he the candidate to beat all candidates? No he's not but I think he's a lot better than what he's given credit for and a heck a lot better than James Webb.

[beachmom]

82. I'm going through Hackett comments now

The one JohnKleeb showed was by far the worst. But this one shows, in response to a question of whether he will run for office in '08, what an egotistical twit he is:

I'm having too much fun helping these other folks to want to go back to begging for money. I'm happy that I made dems feel strong enough to criticize this jackass in the White House and his lacky running the Pentagon and in the process encourage all these other folks to enter the fight. Keep in mind a year ago now Bush was at 56% approval, and none of our dem leaders were questioning his lack of strategy in Iraq , when this loud mouth Iraq vet returned home to run against Jean Schmidt and in the process call the prez a Chicken Hawk Son of a Bitch. While I lost, our national leaders learned that they could possibly win if they simply had the courage to stand and fight. I didn't turn into a puddle of water. So we had success in a different form. I'm good with that because at least now we have the bastards on the run. We just have to close the deal on some of these races in November. Think James Webb and Andrew Horne.

by Hackett on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 06:35:37 PM PDT

That is a bold faced lie!!! He didn't say "no Democrat advocated troops out now", he said no Dem criticized *'s lack of strategy. This guy enjoys the sound of his voice too much. I'm new to politics, and I am learning how bloody spoiled we are as Kerry supporters. How people can go all ga ga on Hackett is beyond me. "Chickenhawk" is OUR word; it should never be said by a politician. But I suppose like in the Republican party, there will always be people attracted to demogogues. I really am disturbed by this, guys. I had no idea what a lack of character this guy has (or maybe politics isn't his thing and other than that he's a fine person).

[JohnKleeb]

84. To me it showed someone totally ignorant of Virginia politics

I felt it was a snobby remark coming from someone who has never run for office in oru state. You know what I think made Warner and Kaine successful here I think it was because though they're not Virginians by birth, I know Warner is from Indiana and grew up in Connecticut and Kaine is a midwesterner but they didn't talk down to us like hey you guys are southerners I am gonna have to treat you like kids it was more like ok I am gonna treat you guys with respect and run a campaign that will help all Virginians whether they be liberal, moderate, conservative, rural, suburban, urban, etc. About demogogues though, I am stealing this from my history professor but did you notice how similiar that word and demi-god sound. The point I was going to also add is that every side has its demogogues. Huey Long in the 1930's was a huge one. I mean these lies that some people made in the journal that Miller isn't a democrat are just untrue. He did give money to Spencer Abraham I realize however by and large he has given much money to Democrats including Kos's former boss, Howard Dean. Hackett can get involved in this race if he wants to, it's a free country however I would appreciate if he didn't distort the facts to fit his realities. What's ironic to me is that a more politically moderate Paul Hackett would in my opinion have a harder time being elected than the more liberal Sherrod Brown. Since from witnessing the recent governor's election here and how Jerry Kilgore campaigned, voters do not respond positively to negatively. They like optimism for hte most part. Jerry Kilgore got his ass handed to him here not just because Mark Warner was popular and Kaine rode his coattails to Richmond but becuase he ran a very negative campaign.

[karynnj]

85. So, I guess it was Paul Hackett

who called for "Regime change now!" back in March 2003.

His tone just really really annoys me - the one thing I agree with is he is a "loud mouth".

I do think that we are spoiled backing Kerry - it is so easy to simply list whet he really did and said. The truth is the defense. I had always thought that in some ways, there is a danger to meeting those you admire. Even very very good people can fail to live up to the unreasonably perfect image created in your mind. With Kerry, the odd thing is the more that I've learned the more it's clear that he is the real deal. He has been under intense scrutiny for over 2 years. The worst anyone has been able to say is that he occasionally gets a number or name wrong - which is easily corrected and happens very infrequently.

[ProSense]

86. I guess he

missed Kerry's call for Rumsfeld to resign and the debates, all happened more than a year ago. Is he referring to Dean, Kennedy, Feingold and all the other Democrats who ran for president? What a foolish thing to say!

[beachmom]

88. And he's supporting a Republican?

Hey Anthony, good to hear from you. I'm still kicking and fighting but trying to avoid the obvious comments that you referenced. Thanks for all your support out there in CA and I'm glad I got to meet you on both my swings through SF. Don't forget to help Pete McClosky. Yeah Yeah Yeah I know he's an R but he's good people, and after all was a big supporter of mine. Let's return the favor.

by Hackett on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 05:44:32 PM PDT

What's that about? I think this guy is about one issue and one issue only -- ending the Iraq War. A praiseworthy goal for sure, but boy is he clumsy with the politics.

[JohnKleeb]

90. To be fair to Pete McCloskey he did endorse Kerry in 2004

but sheesh I agree though. Yeah its a good goal but I wish he understood things better. Here's the intersting thing though. Steve Filson who is a Democrat running for that seat is a former naval fighter pilot who has been endorsed by local area Democratic congresspeople as well as Wes Clark.

[beachmom]

91. And then there's this . . . unprofessionalism to him

Here he's responding to someone suspicious because he's only "Hackett", Not "Paul Hackett".

Are you sure? (21+ / 0-)

Get over it. It's me. Bob Brigham rode shotgun with me when I posted and he's disappeared along with my account "Paul Hackett" and the password. Trust me it's me.

by Hackett on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 05:07:44 PM PDT

Who's Bob Brigham? Can you imagine John Kerry saying "I lost my PW"? This guy was not ready for prime time for a Senate race, I tell you.

Do I have a vendetta against Hackett? Damn straight. Why didn't he respond to my original comment? Why didn't he say, look, ma'am, I don't know about that but I'll be sure to have Mr. Webb look into that and find out what his response is. But no. He may have been courageous in Iraq, maybe even in his congressional race, but he's afraid of little old me? What's up with that?

[ProSense]

92. Beachmom!

Do I have a vendetta against Hackett? Damn straight.

:rofl:

[JohnKleeb]

93. Perhaps

Didn't Bob Kerrey respond to you or MH1, or was it someone else? I wasn't going to be a spelling nazi but he spelled McCloskey wrong too. Nothing wrong with that since Truman had hard time spelling as senator from Missouri. That does sound worrysome that he would lose his password like that. You know it's funny that a lot of people are acting like Brown is going to be a terrible candidate. He actually has been elected statewide in Ohio I've read to the same spot that Ken Blackwell was. Here's something ironic though. We're all aware how upset Hackett felt when the DSCC pushed him aside, correct? It apppears that in the special election that he ran agaisnt Schidmt, similiar things occured only it was Hackett that was the beneficary. I don't hate or dislike the guy, I just don't think he understands politics.

[MH1]

95. About that, from the Hackett thread

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/4/13/195915/286/231#c231

Did you ever ask John Kerry himself (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:worried dem
what he thinks about Jim Webb? Just curious...

Raising Kaine and Webb for Senate!

by lowkell on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:37:05 PM EST

My response:

I don't have the privilege of (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:beachmom, A Patriot for Kerry
having conversations with John Kerry.

I have noticed that John has been fundraising for a great many veterans - my candidate Joe Sestak among them - and yet has not sent out any fundraising request for Webb.

If the anecdote that Webb refused to even shake Kerry's hand is true, then I feel pretty confident that Kerry would just as soon not see him in the Senate. I mean, that's pretty low.

Meanwhile, did Bob Kerrey ever follow up on his promise - when he diaried about his own endorsement of Webb - to take the question of the USA Today editorial up with Webb? What was the response to that? I was sure I'd hear about it if there'd been any retraction. And I'm sure it's much easier for Bob Kerrey to talk to James Webb than it is for me to talk to John Kerry.

Joe Sestak: BIG Fighting Dem for PA-07

by MH in PA on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 10:44:25 PM EST

"lowkell" did not respond. Funny thing about that.

[MH1]

96. About that, from the Kerrey thread - it wasn't to me

I went back and looked it up.

My post:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/3/28/21724/6057/51#c51

Senator Kerrey (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by: JCPOK, vcmvo2
Welcome to dailykos.

Sadly, I must disagree with you - based on what I know today. Perhaps you can help.

On 2/18/2004, USA Today published an editorial written by James Webb that totally mischaracterized Senator John Kerry's actions after coming home from Vietnam; and particularly the content of John Kerry's 1971 testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

In fact, the description of that testimony given by James Webb, was later mirrored in the attacks by that group we know as the Swift Liars (never mind what they like to call themselves - just another one of their lies).

And so on another thread, I have stated repeatedly my belief that James Webb lied in that USA Today editorial, by taking John Kerry's words out of context so as to totally distort their meaning.

The word "lie" is a strong word, but I stand by it. I just re-read Kerry's testimony, and I am sure I am not making a mistake.

Just now, I have read and re-read your statement and see nowhere in it that you believe that James Webb would "stand by" those with the moral courage to dissent in the manner that John Kerry did in 1971. If you did say that, I would ask "how can you believe that"? Because when he had the chance to, James Webb did not stand by John Kerry and honor the moral courage of his dissent - instead, he stuck the knife in.

Senator, that is what I believe. What evidence can you provide that I am wrong? Has James Webb ever recanted what he said in that editorial? Do you think he should?

Joe Sestak: BIG Fighting Dem for PA-07

by MH in PA on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 08:33:53 PM EST

Bob Kerrey's response:

Jim Webb's statement about John Kerry (17+ / 0-)
Recommended by: taylormattd, lowkell, mimi, bumblebums, msstaley, Birdman, peraspera, MH in PA, Elwood Dowd, 5oclockshadow, EdlinUser, cwaltz, SherriG, Christopher Walker, jmaps, smari006, worried dem

I did not see the USA Today piece. If it is as you described, Jim was wrong. John's testimony in 1971 did hurt a lot of veterans who felt it was a personal attack on them. However, I believe he was right to oppose the war and brave to try to stop it. I do know that Jim and I disagree on this point; but I support him all the same.

by Bob Kerrey on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 08:46:02 PM EST

(Kind of hard to believe that Bob had no idea of this controversy, but I guess it's possible)

Poster downthread:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/3/28/21724/6057/139#c139

Senator Kerrey: Webb Should Apologize (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by: besieged by bush, MH in PA
Many Americans understood the real reason why John Kerry, as part of his campaign, had to emphasize the story of his heroic duty in Vietnam. For the good of this country, Kerry had to show that valor, patriotism and honor were not exclusive to conservatives.

I saw this realization in my cousin’s eyes. He fought bravely in Vietnam even though he opposed that war and even though he is a progressive by any standard. John Kerry made people realize – just for a moment... just before people like James Webb and the Swift Liars came along – that many progressives have put their lives on the line for the American values they hold so dear.

Senator Kerrey, James Webb did this country a great disservice when he distorted John Kerry’s congressional testimony in the USA Today slander piece. Will you ask James Webb to apologize to John Kerry and the many other progressive warriors that have served this country so bravely?

Thank You.

by JCPOK on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 09:06:26 PM EST

Asking Jim for an apology (8+ / 0-)
Recommended by: taylormattd, lowkell, texas dem, Hollywood Liberal, Sui Juris, msstaley, peraspera, besieged by bush
No, I won't. But I will get a copy of and ask him about.

by Bob Kerrey on Tue Mar 28, 2006 at 09:08:45 PM EST

I still expect some public response...that is, if Webb has anything of substance to say about it.

[karynnj]

100. Another question for Webb

would be:

In the same piece he criticized Kerry for his work in opening Vietnam - Kerrey was on that committee too. So, why is it only John Kerry he has a problem with.

[JohnKleeb]

109. This is what I mentioned above

He praised McCain big time in a 2000 Op-Ed piece which is ok but he didn't mention McCain's involvement in this. I think Webb has been selective in targetting Kerry out for criticism on this.

[karynnj]

99. That is funny

Especially as those accounts were set up to prevent someone using their name. It sounds like Kerry (or his office had no trouble contacking the office when he wanted to post.)

I do think he owed you a response. I doubt it was fear of you, but simply lack of respect. I still have not seen why he is so special. In reality, not every soldier is a hero and it certainly doesn't make them a good candidate fro office.

[karynnj]

98. Pete McClosky is fantastic

He was an antiwar Republican who ran against Nixon in the 1972 primaries. He's very briefly in the "Going Up River", speaking about the young John Kerry. His endorsement of Kerry in 2004 was one of the early ones and included an incredible tribute to Kerry's character - especially his honesty.

[WildEyedLiberal]

97. Okay, seriously, he sounds like just another Angry Blogger

His ENGLISH isn't even that great! He misspelled a couple words and his syntax is clumsy. This reads like something the average denizen at DKos would say - in other words, NO ONE you'd want to actually FOLLOW in the political arena. Jeez!

And that doesn't even address the egomaniacal idiocy of what he actually said.

[karynnj]

101. Be fair - some of us (me included) are not good spellers

and even worse typists. (I never took typing after the advisors in High school recommended that all girls take typing.)

I do have a problem with the content and the attitude.


I don't think dKos has a spell check.

[WildEyedLiberal]

102. Well, a lot of it is just that he sounds profane and undignified

"Son of a bitch," "bastards," etc - yes, we all say those things about Bush, but we didn't run for office. I know calling Bush names really gets the DKos crowd going, but honestly, everything about that comment is about ten degrees of sophistication less than I would expect from someone who wanted to be taken seriously in politics. It's not even his spelling so much as his general tone and his willingness to use vulgar language just because he knows it'll rev up the kosbots. I know that sounds hypocritical coming from me, the princess of the f-bomb, but there is a time and a place for salty language, and if you are a well-known political figure, you just don't drop words like "bastard" and "son of a bitch" into every other sentence.

And by the way, your comments both here and at DKos are far more professional than anything Hackett has said.

[karynnj]

104. That's true -

i'm actually not real comfortable using that language. I agree with you that a public figure should avoid it. I know Kerry got grieve even over using F'ed it up (referring to Iraq). I didn't find that offensive as the word was not used in an offensive manner.

[beachmom]

105. Very cosmic -- I was writing the same thing as you below! n/t

[beachmom]

103. Maybe part of this IS humanizing people who run for or hold office

Kos said once, and I agree with him, that if you go and post onto dKos (or any other blog community), that no matter your status as Senator (he was referring to Feingold) or Congressman or former Congressional candidate, you are now an equal. You don't get treated any better or worse than anyone else, and you have to back up your arguments. So when Kerry or Hackett or Feingold or Pelosi create a diary or comment, they are fair game. I think Sen. Kerry has so far been excellent on Kos -- smart, respectful, obviously listening to the different voices -- my only criticism is that I think he should schedule more time and comment more (more than Feingold, but less than Conyers -- that's doable, right?). Because he just comes across as gracious and engaged, and he's just going to earn a whole lot of points there. Hackett, on the other hand, showed none of those qualities. And he felt himself above the debate, which was why he blew me off. Sorry, Mr. Hackett, but on the blogs, you're an equal, and you have earned NO points for yourself or Mr. Webb.

I have to concur with Karynnj a little here, because I think Kerry might have made a typo, too, when he commented. What I will agree with WEL on is the way Hackett "talks" -- it doesn't work for me, with words like "shotgun" and "chickenhawk son of a bitch". It's just not professional, and maybe I'm the only sentimental one here, but I like the Senate, and the way they talk (which was why Allard was SO out of line). In private, well that's different. But dKos is a public forum, looked at by the MSM, so politicians need to view it as a press conference and behave accordingly. I'm not sure if Hackett will have anymore success as a politician; 15 minutes of fame is right.

[karynnj]

106. I agree with everything you say here

especially as dKos is a public forum - as is DU and FR. In fact, Jerome Corsi was much easier to discredit because of his disgusting FR postings. They showed his true colors.

While Hackett's weren't in that category, they're not something you would want to show your mother. Kerry grew up in a family where good manners were obviously expected. But in addition to the manners there is something deeper, which is a respect for others which seems very deeply embedded. His daughters seemed to act pretty much the same way. As to the quantity of posts, I'm glad he does some, but realize that his time is obviously very tightly scheduled to begin with. I hope he does have staff reading them - to get feedback and to point out ones he should think of responding to.

[beachmom]

107. That's where the thinking needs to change (re: time for blogs)

Posting a diary should be viewed by politicians as a town meeting. Only difference is it's a VERY convenient one, and can be done from Capitol Hill, their home, or wherever, and it requires no travel time. To me, it is a time SAVER not waster. If, for example, Sen. Kerry wants to diary on dKos, why doesn't his staff schedule more time? They would post it for him, and then he would log on shortly thereafter, sticking around for an hour. It's still way quicker than flying somewhere. The staff could help, but really any computer savvy person could comment fairly easily, although "hunting and pecking" ain't gonna cut it, Senator! I realize Senators and Congressmen/women are EXTREMELY busy but blogs are the reality. 1 hour every 2 or 3 months doesn't seem SO bad. Obviously, I could be wrong but I really think it would be an hour well spent.

[karynnj]

108. Very good point

Also, I assume he could dictate his answer to a fast typist on his staff. But you're right and it would reach more people then a typical town meeting.