Ahm, Sen. about that web site? Sigh. Another DKos post to consider

[TayTay]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/14/125712/127

Sigh! Ahm, there are lessons in here to be learned. Not making a big stink or anything, but I might just come down with a bad case of website envy. (What else are you going to envy? We have everything else.)

I'm just saying is all. I have this wish list of what I want on a web site. Ahm, it is, as yet, somewhat unfulfilled. I'm just saying is all.

[karynnj]

1. Well,

The Edwards people might have the best website, but we've got the best candidate. Silliness aside, I assume that Kerry will eventually upgrade his web site which is now just a shadow version of the 2004 one. It will be easier for Kerry's team to find outstanding web designers than it will be for others to find a way to compete with Kerry's extertise, gravitas, and resume. I hope when they do, they find a way that lets him communicate even more than he does with the emails. I loved the little videos right after the election.

[ProSense]

2. It's all true.

Edwards has a great website.

I know what you mean. I keep clicking and hoping for the relaunch. And a suggestion: more pictures please!

[Island Blue]

3. Yes, Kerry desperately needs to upgrade his websites.

DESPERATELY! Of course since Edwards is no longer a member of the Senate, I suppose he's a little more free with what he can include on his site but still ...

I went to my district's representative's site the other day (yes, Walter "Freedom Fries" Jones) and was actually quite impressed (with his site that is, not necessarily the contents), although I thought there was too much dead space.

IMO this needs to be a bigger priority for JK (and his people) for both his Senate site and his Keeping America's Promise site.

[jenndar]

11. Yeah, there are all kinds of weird policies about elected

officials and blogs and stuff.

Still, both sites need work, if for no other reason than the Senator is brilliant and gorgeous and should have a website commensurate with that. :)

[Dr Ron]

28. Would love it, but perhaps not needed

We saw in 2004 that having the major web presence was not the deciding factor. Kerry is looking after more important considerations than the web. It is also other actions which make the web site more significant. Even though Kerry didn't concentrate on the web as Dean did, ultimately polls showed that a majority of people who got info on candidates from the web voted from Kerry. This is largely a consequence of the fact that the winner in any election is likely to also win many subsets of the vote such as this, but still does show that having the winning campaign on the ground will drive people to the web site.

That said, in 2008 the web may be even more prominent. While I don't think it will be anywhere near as important as the work on the ground and coverage by the mainstream media, it is a tool which could still be of value and I would like to see them take better advantage of the web. The web is still a way to reach a lot of people at a relatively small cost.

[wisteria]

4. Yes, your right, I too am feeling unfulfilled using his website.

He needs to give it some TLC.

[wisteria]

5. Edward's has the time to design a nice website. He isn't a hard

working busy senator any longer.

[karynnj]

6. I doubt that either Edwards or Kerry would

be personally involved in the actual design of the web sites.

[Mass]

8. I doubt Edwards did this website. It is time for Kerry to find somebody

to work on an internet strategy.

[kerrygoddess]

9. Yes it is

The subject came up when I spoke with JK - there's a lot going on and various concerns. All good things come to those who wait.

[wisteria]

10. Ok, let me re-phrase my response, He has more time to

find someone to consult with who has the expertise to design a nice website.

[JI7]

12. it wouldn't take much for Kerry to do it

my guess is that it's more a matter of him choosing not to do anything or just not really having thought about it rather than a time concern.

but it is something that if any of us gets a chance to ask him about should do it.

[rox63]

14. There's lots of out-of-work techies

Now that so many of those jobs are going overseas. Shouldn't be too hard for JK to find a good webmaster.

[wisteria]

15. Ok, maybe some of us should e-mail some suggestions to his office.

Perhaps, we will get lucky and a staff member will bring it to his attention.

[kerrygoddess]

24. A lot of work goes into

designing a website. Especially one the size of Edwards, or JK's during the campaign. It takes time and planning and staff and there's a lot going on right now - but it will happen. I said this in my other post - all good things come to those who wait.

[sandnsea]

7. It's a communications tool

I've been saying that since I first started working online. You would be amazed at the number of people, smart business people even, who just don't get it. Gore called it the "information" superhighway, which got everybody thinking you just dispense information and voila, you're making the best use of the internet.

Wrong!! It's the communication, stupid. First it was email and IM and message boards, then forums and blogs, and on to voice and video, etc.

If the information you provide doesn't encourage people to communicate with you, then you blew it.

[ray of light]

13. That website is very well done. (Busy but lots of great things in it)

[MH1]

16. Hmmm. I actually don't like that site, on first glance anyway.

At least not for either of Senator Kerry's main sites (Senate site and PAC site).

I don't have time to do a full eval, but first impression is: it appears to have lots of good tools; the layout is a turnoff for me. Besides being too busy, it doesn't flow. And I'm sorry, I don't like the menu on the right thing. I've heard that's the euro-fashion, but call me old-fashioned. And really, what's wrong with a nice standard looking site where things are where people expect them to be?

It may be "hip" but hip isn't all that's important.

Anyway, it's a blog. JK might do well to link a blog to his PAC site (or not?) but the Senate and PAC main sites need to accomplish un-bloglike things for un-hip people.

Just my .02. As soon as I looked at Edwards' site I just had to post my contrary view. ;-)

Edit to add: OF COURSE JK needs to fix a few things on his sites, and in general a design update is not necessarily out of order. However neither site has a particularly bad graphic design, in my opinion; some refinements are needed, and the functional and link placement stuff needs to be fixed and should be enhanced. But I don't think he (his team) needs to look at Edwards' site for anything except perhaps functionality ideas.

[ProSense]

17. Did you see the main site?

http://oneamericacommittee.com/


The functionality is what I like about Edwards' site, but I agree with you it is busy and it's not what I would envision for JK.

[MH1]

18. Aaagghhh.

No I hadn't but I like it even less. First impression anyway.

WAY too busy. And what is up with the colors? Blue and green on the blog was bad enough, but I figured that was JE reaching out in code to the greeniacs. But on the main site...what is that color?

Nah, I stand by my initial POV. I don't like it. But at least the menu is on the left where it belongs (for us 'merkuns, anyway).

I hope JK comes up with something more, um, elegant of design than that.

But then I am one who hates 99.8% of all "flash" sites, and don't even get me started on the blinky things and sites that play a movie (complete with sound - that goes well in an office) as soon as I open them.

[TayTay]

19. I actually hate that stuff too!

I disliked the Warner site that had the former Gov start talking right away. I never got to see the rest of the site. I got out when that thing just started up right away. I hate that.

And busy is not good. As Sandy posted upthread, a web site is a tool for communication and it should be geared toward that goal. (Blue and green???? Damn, that is a strange color pic.)

[MH1]

23. Google

won over the search engine market because they respected simplicity and focusing on quality of functionality.

All you want from a search engine is to search. And you want the search to work well. Google understood that and look what it did for them.

Kerry's internet team similarly needs to identify their users' goals and make the site easy for the user to accomplish those things, with reliable, elegant tools. The functionality should be implemented with the lightest and fastest technology possible. Not all users are logging on with state of the art computers! Extra features can be provided for those who can take advantage of them, but the extra features shouldn't bog down the site for the less-advantaged users. For example there are a bunch of ways to do dynamic menus, but some really hurt performance. (Sestak's original website was a perfect example of how NOT to do dynamic menus. Luckily he found a pro who could do it right, and they're fine now.) Another thing is that the site should detect the user's browser and handle it - unlike JK's current Senate site - does that say "outdated design" or what? :eyes:

Okay enough of that... you get the idea. :-)

Really, I like the basic graphic design of JK's sites now. It just needs some functionality fixes.

[Island Blue]

22. The site is way too busy.

We had a name for that color of green when I worked for my college newspaper - we called it baby sh*t green. I would guess he used colors other than the proverbial red, white and blue to differentiate this web site and this project from the web site he'll have when he begins to campaign for POTUS again (because you know he will).

[sandnsea]

25. Isn't it awful, lol

It really is one of the worst web sites I've ever seen. The menu is the least of its problems.

It's like they're so afraid the visitor will never come back, that they shoot them with everything they've got, and hope at least one thing will get the person to click. That never works, it just gives the visitor a headache!!

Thing is, I can tell it was done by someone with real potential, just no organization or targeting skills whatsoever.

Yikes!

[kerrygoddess]

21. It's interesting

I can see the benefits of some of the stuff there, but there's maybe some redundancy with the sidebar and the top menu.

[WildEyedLiberal]

26. Whoa. WAY too crowded

The thing is, I like a lot of the layout, but there is way too much bombarding you when the page opens. There are SO many different options to click, where do you start? Every tab that you scan over reveals a sublist of like 6 more options, too. It's kind of overwhelming. The color does suck, too.

The site has potential, though. I like some of the design. It just needs to be way less "busy."

[Mass]

27. I dont like his website either and I dont think it would be good for Kerry

This is why I was talking about an "Internet strategy" vs redesigning a website. A website can only be effective if it serves the goal the person has.

It seems clear that Edwards's website has one main goal: keep people informed because he does not have another platform for that. This is probably why there are so many information.

I dont think that Kerry necessarily needs that (particularly because he already has his 2 senate websites for that). But his team needs somebody to work on an Internet strategy (and it is possible that somebody is) before they start doing things.
In the meantime, I would settle for a regular update of his websites.

As KG said, I imagine all that will be happening sometimes soon.

[kerrygoddess]

32. There's a few things that differ

in circumstances with PAC's and websites like Edwards and the other's who are not currently in office. JK has his main Senate site and the Small Biz Committee site, and then there's JK.com and the KAP site. If I am not mistaken, the FEC rules because he is in office, make it clear that his Senate sites are allowed certained things and the PAC sites are allowed other things. I believe that who ever maintains the different websites all need to get paid separately, Senate websites through his Senate office and PAC websites through his PAC's so that does complicate things more for them.

On strategy -- there's been an effort to reach out to more blogs and bloggers -- Kos, HuffPo, etc.

As the grassroots (netroots) Kerry supporters, we can take some initiative make sure ideas and questions get sent to them - that's one of the purposes of the Dem Daily private forum. Let me know who's interested in starting a new conversation over there about this. I have more to share about my conversation with JK that would be better said there.

Mass - I noticed you started a blog and added you to my blogroll!

[karynnj]

20. He may have a great web site, but if a fund raising letter

I got from him today is any guide he needs new material. The letter is 4 pages long and raises money for Casey in PA. He mentions Casey for the first time in the middle of page 3. The first page is a long repetition of his 2 America speech starting with Edwards being born in a mill town, the second is a vague critique of Santorum, the third repeats the earlier page and in the middle of the page finally mentions the candidate for whom money is being raised. I don't know if Edwards wrote this, but it is a contrast with KAP - Kerry's concise, straight forward description of the candidate is the focus of his requests. They don't try to sell Kerry first and foremost. (The Edwards one incidently is put out and paid for by the Casey campaign.)

[wisteria]

29. LOL, I received the same letter and cringed when I read the old

tired "two America's again. Yes, it was long and yes it took him a long time to get to the point which was donations for Casey. Actually, I didn't read the whole thing, I give to Casey directly and through JK, so I tossed it out. You post surprised me in that it brought to my attention that the letter was paid for by Casey funds and Edward's waisted nearly three pages plugging himself.

[karynnj]

30. I thought that was pretty telling too

and in direct contrast to Kerry's. I read about 2/3 of it to my husband, who had the same reaction. Both that it was intensely self serving and that the verbiage was 100% out of 2004. That it starts with Edwards and ends with Edwards is not the classiness I would have expected from any national politician. There are some that are (Over-all Democratic agenda), (appeal for candidate - where the description links him to national agenda) - but no one else's seem like this. He even mentions Santorum before Casey, which is pathetic. The first reason he gives for voting for Casey is that he is the top state-wide vote getter. This plus the Santorum stuff leads to a ABS feel.

Also, all the "Edwards can teach Kerry how to speak" people are out of their minds - every Kerry appeal I've seen is far more focused and implicitly addresses the question of why should I support this person. They sound like a grown up listing reasons to persuade a person who he credits with having the intelligence to want real reasons. Kerry is classy.

Editted to say I went into: Fun Diversion - for "Class Act" here are the listings:

1) Kerry
2) Lieberman (I have no problem here)
3) Dean
4) Bush :puke:
5) Sharpton (I guess they forgot Tawana Brawley)
6) Clark
7) Kuchinich
8) Edwards

And yes, I've spent way too much time playing with that

[beachmom]

31. Did anyone see "Diary of a Political Tourist" the A. Pelosi film?

Call me a jerk if you will, but I didn't like Edwards after seeing the way he was with his small children. He struck me as a phony trying to use his kids so people would vote for him. I'm not saying he isn't a good Dad privately. But that scene in his trailer was such a HUGE turnoff to me. He opened the fridge and had to point out the sippy cups. Then when the camera came in for a close up to the little girl, she made the biggest scowl/nasty face ever. This reflects a child who has HAD it. I don't know what the solution is to someone running for president (and the wife MUST join him) who has to balance that with raising small children. Maybe the solution was: don't run until they get older. John and Elizabeth Edwards obviously love their children, but I saw a lack of judgment there. They should have said no to Alex to film inside the traveling bus -- the kids were tired, probably needed to go to a park and get some exercise, maybe needed a nap. Instead John Edwards exploited his kids for a cheap ad and as a Mom, I frankly winced when I saw that scene.

However, I'm not going to blame Edwards for Kerry's loss. I just think that if Kerry were to get the nomination again, he should throw caution to the wind and pick someone who is highly knowledgeable (especially foreign policy) and who Kerry has known for a long time. I thought Lieberman was far more loyal to Gore, waiting until Gore said he wouldn't run to throw his hat in the ring. I realize Lieberman isn't all that popular to Dems anymore (and I'm pretty darn mad at him), but I thought that showed a classiness to him that Edwards lacks.

Anyway, there may be some Edwards fans here, so I don't want to start a pie fight, but if I felt this way, there were probably others.

Edited to add: sorry, maybe this was not the right thread to put this in. But, yes, I am mad at Edwards for running for prez in '08. From what I understand the Kerrys and Edwards are friends, so I guess the Kerrys have taken it all in stride. I have not. This shows a lack of character. Plus he has betrayed John Kerry possibly in two ways:

1. The "he conceded too quickly" crap prevalent everywhere. Whether intentional or not this originated from Edwards' rebellious speech.

2. What of that remark in the Newsweek Election book, where Edwards "wanted to fight back against the SBVT" but the campaign wouldn't let him. Then they mention a "flabergasted Edwards" who supposedly learned that Kerry met with "terrorists" in Paris (ah, I thought they were communists, a BIG difference in my view) and saying "oh, that's just great". Where did that quote come from may I ask?

Now this letter you speak of; it all just makes my blood boil. I'm probably the only one who feels this way, but I just needed to get it off my chest. Anyway, continue your website discussion and don't mind my blowing off steam about this.

[karynnj]

33. I have no problem with him running and don't see that as disloyal

What I do have a problem with is the things you mentioned.

1) the "conceded too quickly". Here, Edwards seems to be playing a game. There are absolutely NO comments to this effect in the mainstream media. I did googles a long time ago, because I hadn't seen any and everyone keeps posting that. (The comments the night of the election don't count because that was before the results were known and he was conveying the K/E campaign message.) The posters came back with no MSM (or even media comments), just comments to MCM and some comments from "Edwards friends".

Either MCM et al are stretching comments as they did to Kerry - or Edwards is deliberately sending one message to the internet "the election was stolen" crowd and a different message to the MSM, where a message that he thinks the election was stolen would be a negative because most don't believe it and because it helps Kerry more.

2. I really don't trust the Newsweek book as it included many things we think to be lies. Kerry mentions this in his Senate Q&A in 1971 (which in fact is the only source of this information). From accounts in the media then, the North Vietnamese essentially held court in Paris in public. Many anti-war people went there. The comments to the Senators were vague and it's not even clear Kerry spoke to them - just that he listened. That this was open and known and Nixon didn't pursue it likely means he did nothing wrong. (Remember this was in 1970, when Kerry was working on Fr Drinan's campaign for congress after he lost to Drinan in an anti-war caucus. Drinan was the Dean of Boston College's Law School, so it is likely that many people involved in that campaign were from there. Kerry had avoided joining protests until he was not in the Navy, because that was against their code. I assume Kerry made sure he knew exactly what was permissible and what wasn't - and he had very easy access to people who could give him that information. Kerry himself brought it up - so he obviously knew he was within the law.)

When he ran in 1972, when the Democrats in the primary asked if there were conditions we should insist on before leaving - others had answered No. When it was Kerry's turn answered that we needed to be assured that the POWs would be returned. (which is why I think that was something Kerry might have wanted to hear before becoming a leader in the anti-war movement - although that's a guess.)

[beachmom]

36. You're probably right, and I'm being too sensitive

I just feel like his "concession" speech was his point of severance with the John Kerry ticket, and it really hurt. Couldn't he have waited until January 2005? His wife was suffering from breast cancer, so maybe I am cruelly reading things that simply aren't there. He said nothing wrong when he appeared on TDS either. But I can't shake that funny feeling about him. Yeah, it's great he's fighting poverty and all. But, in the end, he has rubbed me the wrong way. Nevertheless, when he does good works, of course, I will applaud him.

[karynnj]

37. Actually, if it makes you feel better

Edwards made some very lovely, positive comments about Kerry when he gave his last speech in the Senate. So, you could say he continued through January,2005.

[benny05]

34. Would someone enlighten me about the Edwards Letter?

I did not receive one--would anyone be willing to share verbatum what it said? Was Senator Kerry trashed in the letter? Jeepers, that is not Edwards' style; is that a legit letter?

In terms of the OAC website, it's still in beta. I predict over time it will be scaled down, but bear in mind, it was designed by millennials. Millennials are accustomed to multi-tasking and reading stuff in all kinds of ways. The colors are different, in the sense that green and grey are very popular, along with the Carolina blue. Sometimes diaries are difficult to keep up with, but in general, many bloggers have adjusted.

Most improvements and additions on the site were suggested by the OAC bloggers. The OAC blog itself was in beta for nearly 3 months before it was re-launched to the web world.

Do you remember the question I asked on this forum a few weeks ago about this was the only place you could blog about JK. About half of you were OK about it.

Myself, I'd like to see Kerry's PAC kick some butt with a website. I receive his e-mails, but I would favor a KerryPac (called KerryCrat.com) to highlight his work better. Both Johns are working hard for our country, something I never lose sight of. One is still in the Senate; the other with a Center for Poverty, Work, and Opportunity. These efforts exceed anything Bu$hco and his ilk are doing for our country now.

:patriot:

[karynnj]

35. Kerry was not trashed or even mentioned

The mailing is 4 pages long, if you trust me with your home or work address or a PO box, I will mail it to you. (Also, I could give it to Rox next Saturday and she can get it to you -aren't you guys friends.) I described it as did wisteria - the biggest problem I had was that it was first and foremost an Edwards piece - rather than a Casey piece.

My comments were my personal opinion. An alternative opinion would be that Edwards was writing Edwards type stuff to appeal to his base.

By the way, his NO stuff was awesome - it's great that he got kids involved.

[benny05]

38. Hi There

Do you have a PM here? If so, I'll send you my home address.

It sounds so strange to me, but then, what do I know?

Thanks...Benny

[karynnj]

39. I have pm click on the envelope thingie by the message

[rox63]

40. Benny05 and I are old friends

But we live quite far apart these days. I'm in MA, and she's in IL. So we won't see each other in person any time soon. :(

[karynnj]

41. I was more meaning I could get her the

mailing by giving it in an unaddressed stamped envelop - if she was reluctant to give her address, but I now have the address and am sending it to her. (I had remembered you were friends and that you were one of the ones going to Boston. Sorry for the confusion.)

[sandnsea]

43. That's very very obvious

I could tell that the site was trying to reach the college crowd, that's great because I think JE is just the person to really get them excited about politics and community activism. I've been really impressed with his speaking tour in 2005 and the trip to NOLA over spring break.

But the site does need to be toned down just a tad because it's going to take more than the "millenials" to win an election. If that's his ultimate goal. It wouldn't be too complicated because there's alot of duplication. They just need to think about what they want a college person to do at the site, and what they want a boomer to do at the site, and make sure there's a "first click" for each of them on that home page. Right now, that site is telling me I don't belong there, and I wouldn't think that was the designers' goal.

But the designers had great energy and talent, that's very clear. Lots of great ideas on how the internet can work. They just need to trust their vision a little bit, that people will "click" to get where they want them to go. They don't have to smack people with absolutely everything, above the fold, all at once.

[benny05]

42. Here's the Best Part of OAC blog

http://blog.oneamericacommittee.com/story/2006/4/16/132631/687

Each week, someone volunteers to write a News Round-Up Diary about JRE. Generally they take news posted by all of the bloggers and write a summation. It's amazing some of the stuff the volunteers find --anywhere from events to other blogs' comments to news about JRE's and Elizabeth's books that are coming out later this year. It also mentions notable diaries and recent photos of JRE recently posted on Frappr, Flickr, or Photobucket.

As someone mentioned in last week's News Round-up, JRE controls the site, but the bloggers make the blog what it is.

I would think the Dem Daily (isn't that a Kerry blog of sorts?) or anyone of you here could do the same here in this forum to highlight Senator Kerry's work and appearances. There are plenty of talented folks here or perhaps you could nudge someone to volunteer--or take turns as they do on the OAC.

Cheers all, Benny